70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

[jbailey]

Does anyone load the Berger 70gr VLD? I'm considering loading it instead of my normal 75gr H or 77gr SMK load. Rationale: same BC, but possible to get them moving ~150fps faster than the 75/77, and still mag length loaded. This is for a precision AR load for 600 to 800yd steel targets. I also plan on shooting this load in carbine tactical matches (from an 14.5" AR).

Does anyone have any loads for this bullet or comments to share? I am planning to load it over RL15 and/or AA2520. Thanks much for any comments - I appreciate them.

-James Bailey

 

[scottieb042674]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

This would be of interest to me also. Can you load that bullet at mag length and get any accuracy out of it? I'll watch this post for updates.

 

[shooter19802003]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

The heavier bullet is going to out perform the lighter one pas 500 yards. Might want to keep that in mind if your primary use is past 500 yards. Compare them on a trajectory table and you will see.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

I run the berger 70 vld from my Remington tactical and get an adv. 2775fps with them using Varget. With 77 smk's my highest velocity acuracy node with out pressure is in the mid to high 2500's with varget.

BC per Bryan Litz book "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting";

Sierra 69= G1-.331 G7-.169
Berger 70= G1-.371 G7-.190
Sierra 77= G1-.371 G7-.190

I have yet to run them side by side to compare, but with the above info its easy to see the 70gr will out perform the 77gr when plugged into a ballistics program.

In your AR it will all depend on how fast you can push the two and if the 70gr will group well when jumped from mag length.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scottieb042674</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This would be of interest to me also. Can you load that bullet at mag length and get any accuracy out of it? I'll watch this post for updates. </div></div>

You can absolutely load them to mag length; they are 0.02" shorter than a 77gr SMK. The accuracy question is unknown to me however and would vary from gun to gun. I only load bullets that jump, so I wouldn't want these 70gr VLDs jammed anyway. I have had no problem getting the AMax to shoot jumped, so I *think* I can get the VLD to shoot...

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Niles Coyote</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run the berger 70 vld from my Remington tactical and get an adv. 2775fps with them using Varget. With 77 smk's my highest velocity acuracy node with out pressure is in the mid to high 2500's with varget.
</div></div>

This is exactly the situation I am in. My accuracy node is at 2600fps for the 77gr SMK; I guess I could try new powders, but heck, why not try the 70gr VLD, which I know I can get moving faster.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
BC per Bryan Litz book "Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting";

Sierra 69= G1-.331 G7-.169
Berger 70= G1-.371 G7-.190
Sierra 77= G1-.371 G7-.190

I have yet to run them side by side to compare, but with the above info its easy to see the 70gr will out perform the 77gr when plugged into a ballistics program.

In your AR it will all depend on how fast you can push the two and if the 70gr will group well when jumped from mag length. </div></div>

Yes, these are the numbers I'm going from and yes, I argee with the conclusion that the 70gr VLD ballistically outperforms the 77gr SMK at all ranges. Hopefully the accuracy is there

I bought what appeared to be the last 100 piece box of 70gr VLD from Midway last night for testing to see how they do at mag length jump...

If anyone has experience w/ a mag length loaded 70gr VLD, I would love to hear from them

 

[scottieb042674]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

That was my question. The mag length versus accurate. I don't remember my OAL when I ran them in my bolt gun, but it was longer than mag length to get them accurate. Sold that gun so it doesn't matter anymore. I'll be watching this thread for any results.

 

[Rappeller11]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

any updates? Thinking i might give the 70vlds a try also.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

I have been focused on prep for an upcoming tactical rifle match in which I'm shooting my new Grendel, so I haven't loaded the 70gr VLDs yet. I have a box of 100 pieces and they are typical Berger quality - very small meplat, very consistent weight from piece to piece, and they look fast and accurate.

I do have a bit of an update however on planning front. The good folks at Berger sent me the following load data. They also told me that the 70gr VLD is a target bullet, meaning it has the thicker jacket, which makes it more able to handle the stress of the jump out of a magazine.

I plan on doing an OCW test on the following powders:

RE-15 charges:
23.5
23.8
24.1
24.4
24.7

Win 748 charges:
24.2
24.5
24.8
25.1
25.4

AA 2520 charges:
24.5
24.8
25.1
25.4
25.7

If I find the nodes for each, I will do a second, finer OCW test, followed by a final show-down between the three powders at the Optimized Charge for each. My objective is at least 0.75 moa at 100yd and at least 2900fps out of my 20" medium profile Noveske SS. I would have a big sh*t-eating grin

on my face if I could get somewhere close to 3000fps and 0.50moa, as I feel that would truly represent a material performance improvement over the 77gr SMK heavy mag-fed 223 monopoly

If anyone has any comments on this plan, I would appreciate them.

-James

--- loading data from Berger:
223 Rem

Bullet
Powder
Start Load
Approximate Start Velocity
Max Load
Approximate Max Velocity
Fill Ratio

70 Grain
H4895
21.5
2622
24.1
2906
99.3%

70 Grain
VARGET
22.0
2650
24.8
2968
100.5%

70 Grain
VIHT N140
22.0
2649
24.9
2964
103.4%

70 Grain
RE-15
22.0
2603
24.7
2920
100.6%

70 Grain
WIN 748
22.5
2703
25.4
3035
96.2%

70 Grain
NORMA 202
21.5
2660
24.0
2941
99.4%

70 Grain
IMR 4064
22.0
2641
24.8
2964
103.3%

70 Grain
AA 2520
22.5
2650
25.7
3019
98.3%

70 Grain
VIHT N540
23.0
2613
26.0
2943
101.5%

70 Grain
Ramshot Tac
22.0
2665
24.9
2991
96.7%

70 Grain
H322
21.0
2760
23.0
2985
93.7%

70 Grain
H335
22.5
2731
24.9
2998
93.8%

70 Grain
AA 2230
21.5
2616
24.1
2916
92.2%

70 Grain
VIHT N133
20.5
2640
23.0
2901
97.9%

70 Grain
BL-C(2)
23.0
2685
25.8
3004
96.7%

70 Grain
VIHT N135
22.0
2687
24.6
2969
104.8%

70 Grain
Benchmark
20.5
2608
22.7
2852
93.5%

70 Grain
IMR 4895
21.0
2651
23.3
2938
106.3%

 

[Graham]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Send Stiggy a PM. He shoots 70 Berger LTB's at mag length with 25grs of RE 15 in a 16" bbl, and they rock to 800m.

 

[blackblue]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Not quite the same but im at 25gr of Tac in my 223ai firedorm loads, no signs of pressure.

 

[boomfab]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

I've used a lot of 70 VLD's. Accuracy with RE-15 is very good. I have not found another powder that works well with it. Velocity is approx 2800 FPS in my 18" AR15 barrel.

I have been trying trying trying to find a good accuracy node with IMR 8208 XBR. I am ready to give up on that after countless ranges sessions. Kinda depressing as I like 8208 a lot. You can get the velocity cranking real high with 8208, like right at 3000 FPS in an 18" barrel. Accuracy was trash though.

 

[Fieldman_.308]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Hey guys! After emailing berger they told me the 70 gr and 73 gr bullets were both mag friendly. We have the 70 gr vld's locally so thats what I went with. I run 25 grains of varget which ends up being slight compressed, but it shoots tight at .4 inches at 100 yards with a 2.26 oal in my m1s 20 inch varmint 1 in 8 barrel. Its a max load in my rifle, but any less and it seriously opened up so I might have to changed powders to slow it down.

 

[gcoulsey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Tag,

I'm interested how you get on with those 70's,

I'm currently working on a 77gr Berger load (non vld)
With varget, mag length, for my friends AR-15,
20" 1/8 twist for the 500yrd line.

I think I've found it's OCW around 24.0 grns @2790 fps ish,
But need to load up and verify with a few more groups yet..
Please keep us posted!!

 

[jeffersonv]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

The thing about the 70 VLD's is they are (usually) doable in a 1/9 twist barrel especially in an AI.

I have taken them out to 700 yards in a fairly stiff cross wind (holding 2 mils windage) and hitting the steel was boringly easy. To be truthful I don't remember if the steel was 12" or 18".

I settled on 26.5 RL15 in my AI but to be honest there was not any difference between the loads I tried, they all shot lights out because they were shot in my Savage, which I find simply amazing.

I'm working on 75 Hornady's now but have not come to any conclusions yet.

 

[squiggy]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

I got all excited when I read this thread. I loaded up some 70gr Bergers for my 20" AR. It has a free floated WOA DMR BBL.
the most accurate load was 24.5gr of AA2520. I think it measured 0.60"

And the load I think will be my "pet load" was 25.5gr AA2520 it measured 0.90"

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Squiggy-
Thanks for this range report! Looking good!

You have chrono data on these loads or see any pressure signs?

I'm liking anything sub-moa if its going 2900+fps, which would put it ~200fps faster than the 77gr. The text books say this is feasible w/o pressure. I have a big pile of 70gr VLDs loaded to above cited levels with W-748, AA2520 and RL-15. I'm working on my bolt-gun (several matches coming up) and haven't been able to find time to shoot the AR. I will post a range report once I do shoot it!

 

[Ben Diss]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Jim- Did you get a chance to shoot these yet? Interested in the outcome of your tests.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Ben-
Negative. All my shooting time is going towards bolt-gun as I have a tactical precision match on 10 April.

I will post some results once I have them (looking mid April).

 

[aegg50]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

If you dont mind me asking what is your load data for the berger 70gr VLD. This would help me out greatly.

 

[Mordamer]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

I reloaded this bullet with great success in a bolt gun using varget. I think you'll find it to be a very good projectile if you do the correct load workup.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Aegg50 et al.

Last week I finally dragged out my AR-15 and shot my 70gr VLD test loads. It was raining so hard that a chrono was impossible (I had to hang my paper targets in plastic bags to keep them from falling off the poster). Despite the rain and lack of chrono, my OCW testing yielded some useful results, which I will share below. Temp was 60*F, and wind was 10mph from 6 o'clock, light fine, DA = 500ft. Rifle is AR-15 with 20" Noveske Medium profile barrel, built by Noveske Rifleworks; Timney 1 stage trigger, USO 1.8-10x optic (10x used for testing); bench supported shooting position.

I tested W748 w/ 24.2gr, 24.5gr, 24.8gr, 25.1gr, and 25.4gr. All were loaded to mag length (2.26") in a reloaded Winchester case and a CCI 41 primer. The brass was absolutely beat to hell in this test, so this load, at all charges, is HOT. Unfortunately (or fortunately), the OCW node on this powder turned out to be very narrow and the groups were 0.75" to 1.50" at 100yds. Not very impressive, but I'm sure the bullet was moving FAST.

Next I tested AA2520, another ball powder. This powder was again tested with Winchester cases and CCI 41 primers. Powder charges were24.5, 24.8, 25.1, 25.4. 25.7. Again, the brass was beat to hell, indicating loads are HOT. AA2520’s node appears wider than W748 however but groups were only a bit better than W748, at 0.75 to 1.0” at 100yds. Again, I’m sure the bullet was fast.

Finally, I tested RL15, an extruded powder that my AR absolutely loves. My go-to load is 77gr SMK over 24.2gr of RL15 and shoots 0.50-0.75moa out to 500 when the wind isn’t bad (MV=2700fps). With the 70gr VLD, I tested 24.1, 24.4, 24.7, 25.0, 25.3grs of RL-15. These loads shot AWESOME. 0.50 to 0.75” groups, with a VERY wide node (heck, nearly all 5 charges landed on the same POI). And, encouragingly, almost no pressure signs. Very impressed, again, with RL-15 in my AR.

My next step is to chrono and group test 24.7, 24.9, and 25.1 grains of RL-15. If any of these charges go into <0.75moa group AND chrono at over 2950fps, I’m done. I’m pretty sure I will get the precision, but I don’t know on the MV. I will probably also shoot 3 rounds loaded with 25.0gr of AA2520 (a charge that appears to be right at the center of the node) and 3 rounds loaded with 25.3gr of W748, just to see how fast they are moving and give them one more chance to show me something.

I hope the above is of some use. The 70gr VLD, with the right powder, appears to be a very impressive competition option.

If anyone has any Varget loads to suggest or any other powders, I'd appreciate them.

 

[CSS]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Glad I found this thread. I've been working with the 77smk and getting mixed results.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

OK, I am back armed with chrono data and more intel on the 70gr VLD.

First off, the ball powders have been abandoned. W-748 and AA-2520 were both tested thru the chrono and again for accuracy. They are wicked fast but are so inconsistent that they are worthless to me. Both easily pushed the 70gr VLD well faster than 2950, with many into the 3000's, but ES and SD was so high that their horrible downrange accuracy is easy to explain (they did 1.5" or worse groups for me at 100yds). I am using a military primer - CCI 41 - in stable temp of 60*F, so I don't think the problems are there.

Now, on RL-15. There is an awesome accuracy node at 24.1 to 24.7grains. It is tough to shot a group that isn't 0.50moa in this node and the POI for that entire charge range is right on top of each other. The node fades past 24.8 and the POI starts to shift with higher group sizes. 24.7grains, which went into 0.5" groups for me at 100yd thru 3 different shooting sessions, chronos at a hair under 2800fps (ES around 18, SD 9). I tested 24.9grains and it does 2840 (similar ES and SD) and 25.1 does 2860 (again similar ES and SD). Tad of some pressure signs at 25.1. I could probably do 25.2 or 25.3 but not any more. There might be another accuracy node starting at 25.3 and if there is, it will be doing well over 2900.

I am going to shoot 1 more group at 25.3 grains of RL-15 to see what it will group/chrono at. If it sucks, then I will call 24.7grains of RL-15 under a 70gr VLD the load. A bit disappointed if that is it, but I will use it as it will outperform my 77gr SMK load.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

FINAL UPDATE - LOAD IS DEVELOPED

I loaded 25.0, 25.2 and 25.4 gr of RL15, looking for a higher accuracy node. The 25.4gr was in it. At 200yds, it shot 0.50moa (multiple bullets thru the same hole), at a tade over 2900fps, with ES of 5 and SD of 2!!!

25.4gr of RL15 is absolute max powder capacity of my Winchester brass and I imagine would be impossible in a LC case. Pressure signs are moderate, but there - THIS IS A 5.56 PRESSURE LOADING, DO NOT ATTEMPT WITH A .223 REM CHAMBER.

 

[squiggy]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

wow HamesBailey thanks for sharing all of your work on this! what are your thought so shooting the 25.4gr load in a Wylde chamber?

 

[Cegorach]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Yea, thanks a bunch for sharing your results. I have been planning to develop a load for my sps tac with this bullet as soon as I can get some range time.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: squiggy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wow HamesBailey thanks for sharing all of your work on this! what are your thought so shooting the 25.4gr load in a Wylde chamber? </div></div>

Squiggy-
I'm really not an expert on 223Rem/5.56NATO chambers. I can't really tell you anything about the Wylde chamber. The 70gr Berger VLD load works great in my 20" Noveske SS upper and in my 14.5" Noveske chrome upper. I don't have a clue what type of chambers they have. I'm getting 2650fps from this load in my 14.5", which is more than many guys are getting w/ the 77gr SMK out of 18-20" barrels

 

[AR4U]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Thanks for doing the legwork James. I'm interested in this bullet for my girlfriend's OBR.

Anyone have any data for TAC or varget? Both seem appropriate and I already have them on hand.

 

[bobke]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Not the exact crossover, but i'm using 24.0 TAC with 75gr Hornady BTHP and Rem 7 1/2 bench rest primers in a variety of brass for a steady chrono'd 2650fps, and no sign of pressure and excellent 10 shot groups at 100yds (limit of local range). That might be a reference for a starting point, but think VLD's might even be a bit longer, though i'm stuck at 2.240 oal for Pmag and Brownell's mag lengths for use in Noveske 18" SPR. Have used 24.0 Varget with excellent accuracy and not quite the velocity with same mag length limitations. Hope that works, if for reference only.

 

[WaShooter]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

Hey all, my first post here.

Just in case anyone is interested in using the Berger 70VLD's in a 22-250, I shoot a Savage 16 with a 26" Shilen 8 twist and I am getting excellent groups using 32.5gr. IMR 4064 and Rem. 9-1/2 primer. I still need to run them thru the chrono to confirm my velocities but I'm guessing 3400'ish with one inch groups at 300 yards.

 

[bohem]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

I'm surprised that the A2520 gave you that much trouble. My precision AR15 LOVES the 77SMK/2520 combo that I'm feeding it.

I'm not pushing on it much, only about 2700fps though.
My rifle is a 7 tw, I've been contemplating buying a box or two of the 90's for single feeding the long shots "just for grins"

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: WaShooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey all, my first post here.

Just in case anyone is interested in using the Berger 70VLD's in a 22-250, I shoot a Savage 16 with a 26" Shilen 8 twist and I am getting excellent groups using 32.5gr. IMR 4064 and Rem. 9-1/2 primer. I still need to run them thru the chrono to confirm my velocities but I'm guessing 3400'ish with one inch groups at 300 yards.
</div></div>

3400fps! Damn, well you are well beyond what my little old 223Rem can do.

Welcome to the Hide.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm surprised that the A2520 gave you that much trouble. My precision AR15 LOVES the 77SMK/2520 combo that I'm feeding it.

I'm not pushing on it much, only about 2700fps though.
My rifle is a 7 tw, I've been contemplating buying a box or two of the 90's for single feeding the long shots "just for grins"

</div></div>

Different strokes for different folks. I have a lb. of the stuff (AA2520) that I will give you at the next Black Hat match. Yes, the stuff really gets the 70grainer going (I had some loads going close to 3000fps w/ it), but I couldn't get it to shot a damn either on down-range groups or ES. I know the RL15 temp sensitivities issues well now, so I'm not overly worried about that. I have tried half a dozen other powders all up against RL15 and none have beaten it, at least in my 8twist Noveske SS 20".

 

[bohem]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Different strokes for different folks. I have a lb. of the stuff (AA2520) that I will give you at the next Black Hat match. Yes, the stuff really gets the 70grainer going (I had some loads going close to 3000fps w/ it), but I couldn't get it to shot a damn either on down-range groups or ES. I know the RL15 temp sensitivities issues well now, so I'm not overly worried about that. I have tried half a dozen other powders all up against RL15 and none have beaten it, at least in my 8twist Noveske SS 20".
</div></div>

Yep, pretty much... one of those "YMMV" moments

Thanks for the powder, I have a partial lb of RL15 that shot OK, but not great in my 308. The mil-surp pull down that I got 40lbs of shoots like a house on fire and the RL15 was more expensive and less consistent. No idea why, but I'm enjoying what the 308 gives me for now.

I'll bring that -15 along for you too. Thanks.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Yep, pretty much... one of those "YMMV" moments

Thanks for the powder, I have a partial lb of RL15 that shot OK, but not great in my 308. The mil-surp pull down that I got 40lbs of shoots like a house on fire and the RL15 was more expensive and less consistent. No idea why, but I'm enjoying what the 308 gives me for now.

I'll bring that -15 along for you too. Thanks. </div></div>

Josh-
I might actually see you at the match I'm running at Mayberry, MD. Black Hat and Freddy are prize table sponsors (props to those guys!). We are test running the CoF now and will have it open for enrollment in a month or so. It will be in February - and it will be the first match of a tactical precision series that Mayberry is running in 2012.
Hopefully you will be able to make it.

 

[bohem]

Re: 70gr Berger VLD instead of 75/77gr HPBT?

I'd love to come. Keep me in the loop and I'll see if I can make it. More matches around here would be a good thing.

 

[squiggy]

I am getting back into shooting and reloading. Has any one ells been playing with this bullet?

 

[jbailey]

Yes sir, I still shoot the 70gr Berger VLD and its great bullet. 2950fps from my 20" AR (75* weather). 25.3 gr of RL-15 in Win brass. Shoots bug-holes at 200yds and hammers steel with stupid ease at 600. Have shoot the bullet in a bunch of carbine/DMR matches with good success.

In the bullet scare earlier in the year, I couldn't find the Bergers so I bought some 69gr SMK. They also shoot bugholes with similar MV. They do drift more in the wind.

 

[Huckleberry75]

Anyone running it in an SPS tactical bolt gun?

 

[Buzzsaw]

Huckleberry, I just loaded up some with 24.0 and 25.5 of Varget and RL-15, seated at 2.305 OAL for my 9 twist 20" 700 5R. Hope to shoot them Saturday and will post results.

 

[squiggy]

jbailey, are you using any crimp on those? If not,, have you seen any problems with the bullets getting pushed into the case from recoil?
please and thanks

 

[jbailey]

jbailey, are you using any crimp on those? If not,, have you seen any problems with the bullets getting pushed into the case from recoil?
please and thanks

Squiggy-
negative on the crimp. No problems on bullets getting pushed into case and I have shot these thru multiple 'run and gun' carbine matches, high volume, high stress stuff.

 

[jbailey]

(deleted) sorry, double tap

 

[speedaddiction]

@jbailey, excellent write up! I am just starting to look at these bullets and was not sure if they would work in the AR platform but I guess my question has been answered.
Thanks,

 

[Sincerd]

You guys should try 2000MR and power pro varmit. On Johnny reloading bench black hills clone load he was able to get up past 2860 with varmit. Both of those powders outperformed everything else mentioned with 77 smk. 2520 coming in a close third as far as pressure. Nothing else came within 100 fps.

 

[Mojo700]

I see this thread has been resurrected multiple times now, but it's exactly what I've been looking for.
The 75 BTHP's and 69 SMK's have been hard to get and the price keeps going up, so I was looking for an alternative, and in my searching I came across this thread full of excellent information on what I think is a great substitute for longer range AR accuracy, plus I already have over 1k of the 70 VLD.
I am curious for those of you who have loaded the 70 gr VLD's for an AR-15 platform rifle, what kind of neck tension are you using? I'm wondering if .001-.002 is enough to keep the bullet secure in auto guns, and what kind of tension are you guys using to get the best accuracy with them.
Also, anybody tried using IMR 4166 in any 223/5.56 loads? From it's position in the burn rate charts, it should theoretically be a good powder, but I don't see much for data on it.

 

[Sincerd]

Lee factory crimp all the things

 

[Mojo700]

I try to never take any step that can't be precisely measured and repeated later when reloading rifle ammunition. Handgun ammo is different. Bullet retention with proper neck tension is easier to measure and duplicate later.

 

[FOHA1]

On Gavintube they claimed that the factory 77g Berger was running VV 140. Any of you guys run that powder? I've got a jug and a couple thou of the 70's so that would be a nice round to run through my 24" 1:8 Les Baer varmint.