Gunsmithing 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

[LRI]

This is something I've not seen before. Historically I've always tried to have a "progressive mind" when it comes to putting rifles together, but this is a little out there even for us.

As we can see, someone got Jiggy with the TIG torch. Our challenge becomes reconstructing this bugger so that it resembles something a bit more conventional again. Client says the gun shoots just fine, he's just disenchanted with how it was put together.

So it begins. . .

As we can see the welding was likely done with the barrel installed. The heat pulled/distorted the lug at the weld. The contact points show it all.

Next is the bedding. Garrett will be starting over with this peach. Getting pillars out of the stock is pretty simple with a torch. Just shove a turned piece of brass into the screw hole and pour the coals to it. Transfers the heat and cooks the resin till it breaks free. A few taps with a whacker and it falls right out.

Bucket of water close by is a must.

As a std practice we'll be starting over with this one. Once the pillars come out, we'll knock the old epoxy out of it and fill it up. More "divine intervention".

Should be a fun project.

More to come.

C.

 

[Gruff]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Must have been built by "Red Jacket Firearms".

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

A welded on recoil lug? That's a new one for me too.

 

[ORD]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Ouch!! Chad, you ought to share those photos and any others you have with the "good" gunsmithing schools around the country as a "What <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">NOT</span></span> to do" example!!

 

[SingleShot85]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G.Ruff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Must have been built by "Red Jacket Firearms".

</div></div>

my thought exactly........

 

[monteboy84]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Any idea how much the weld distorted the action itself??

-matt

 

[Shortdraw]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Wow, some people should have their tools taken away from them..

 

[spot69221]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mnshortdraw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow, some people should have their tools taken away from them..</div></div>

No, how else could we have "special tests" ran on equipment. I think this is a great opportunity to learn something...besides precision welding gunsmithing

I am curious if it shot MOA before Chad got it???

 

[GasLight]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Not to say I would try this, or that I even have the skill, but I do know the Marine Corp was welding lugs to the action on the M40A1 until there was some kind of problem with accuracy, then they stopped the procedure. The above job doesn't look like a hack job by any stretch. I guess my point being that just because it isn't common practice that it doesn't have a purpose.

The customer even told Chad that it shoots ok...

carry on the bashing

 

[Wardy]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Wow....someone trying to 1 up the "Pinned Recoil lug" and what a awesome bedding job too!

 

[gunnergirl81]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Wow. Just wow.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Not red jkt.

Ya'll would be surprised who did ths. Highly known/respected gun plumber.

Seriously.

 

[ORD]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Not red jkt.

Ya'll would be surprised who did ths. Highly known/respected gun plumber.

Seriously.

</div></div>

The question that is most important here in my mind is not so much "Who?", but..."WHY?"

Sure...there's more than one way to skin a cat, but WHY THIS WAY?

 

[jwebster]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

That is how switch barrel rifles were built on Remington actions twenty years ago ORD.

 

[moochy28]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

I would like to know who the smith was..Hopefully no one I use..

 

[ORD]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwebster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That is how switch barrel rifles were built on Remington actions twenty years ago ORD. </div></div>

I'm well aware that welding the recoil lug can certainly be done, but I have never owned nor shot a switch-barrel that used anything other than a pinned lug (which I would think would be the preferred method given the possibilities of the heat from welding ruining the receiver's heat treating, warping the recoil lug, etc., etc.).

While you say this was how they were done 20 years ago, this job doesn't appear to have been that long ago, nor did the post about the rifle say anything about this being a switch-barrel. I'm just curious WHY this was done on this particular rifle and WHY this method was chosen over pinning, etc. That's all...

 

[jonaddis84]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Would have at least been better if they welded it, then trued the face back perp to the raceway...then re-heat treated it

 

[jwebster]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

I concur ORD that pinning is preferable, but the rifle is twenty years old and is a switch barrel. Another reason it is visiting Chad is that one of the barrels is chambered for a wildcat and our Government (TSA) confiscated my ammo at the airport last fall because it was not in the "original manufacturer" packaging and da rules is da rules (lesson learned). Luckily it was an Ackley improved but I am also getting lazy and not having as much fun fire forming as I used to so Chad is going to screw on a new barrel in 7mm-08. The original smith has built more than a few world record benchrest rifles and this little hunting rifle shot just fine, but technology has improved a LOT in the last two decades.

 

[JJones75]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

That is an awfull job !!

I have to be perfectly honest though I once welded a .500" recoil lug to a Savage action. The weld was done full diameter with a heat sink as a barrel replacement. The weld was brought down to match the outer conture of the action then the action was fully blue printed threads and lug were opened up from 1.055" to 1.120" and the front and back on the recoil lug was trued after being blasted and painted it looked like a Savage and Surgen had a baby the gun was chambered inj 300 win mag and shot great for years even with some very still loads , last i heard the guy that bought it was still shooting it.

That was when i was alot younger and a little bit "dummer"

 

[Nocalphoenix]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwebster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Another reason it is visiting Chad is that one of the barrels is chambered for a wildcat and our Government (TSA) confiscated my ammo at the airport last fall because it was not in the "original manufacturer" packaging and da rules is da rules (lesson learned). </div></div>

Confirm TSA took ammo because it was not in original packaging? This is new to me, what do we do with handloads, find some factory boxes and stick them in?

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Just visited the TSA website. Under the "transporting special items" section all I can find regarding packaging is that it must be in original cartons such as cardboard OR in metal containers or containers specifically designed for small quantities of ammunition.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/prohibited/permitted-prohibited-items.shtm

May be more to it. I know i'd of had a shit fit at the airport. Educate yourselves gents. Research ahead of time and carry the regs. Been my experience TSA isn't the sharpest bunch.

C.

WE ARE US Citizens and entitled to certain things for being born here. That doesn't mean zipperheads at the airport are going to go out of their way to observe it however.

 

[jwebster]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

That is correct Norcal Phoenix, they seem to have this thing for packaging. They no comprende wildcats and reloads, and reason or logic never entered the equation. To much explaining or arguing might get your "package" some attention. I think both you and Chad offer good advice.

 

[Slinky001]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Do your self a favor and send your ammo ahead of time to someone driving to the match (or hunt) and it saves you a lot of trouble at the airport.

It's not always feasable,but do it when you can!!!

Nothing worse than sweating it out at the airport because you have too many rounds or they are not packaged the way that specific TSA agent wants them.

Brian

 

[KYS]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Norcal Phoenix</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jwebster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Another reason it is visiting Chad is that one of the barrels is chambered for a wildcat and our Government (TSA) confiscated my ammo at the airport last fall because it was not in the "original manufacturer" packaging and da rules is da rules (lesson learned). </div></div>

Confirm TSA took ammo because it was not in original packaging? This is new to me, what do we do with handloads, find some factory boxes and stick them in? </div></div>

Alternative is you could ship the ammo to your destination?

 

[FLASH1976]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Iron Brigade Armory likes to weld on actions dont they? Not bashing just asking.

 

[Casey Simpson]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Okay. Gosh. It was me. I told him it was gonna shoot like manure, but the client insisted.

Oh, by the way; those Red Stick guys or whatever they're called. They aren't really from here. They came over from Mississippi. Prove it to yourselves by watching "Swamp People" and compare accents in the speech pattern of Mr. Landry when he say "...choot 'em, Liz", and the goofey dude while he's explaining to us why an AK47 cannot be suppresed (I didn't watch. Someone told me about it).

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Ya'll would be surprised who did ths. Highly known/respected gun plumber.

Seriously.

</div></div>

In this day and time and from what I've seen and heard others say, I wouldn’t be surprised one bit.

That welded lug would be enough to send me over the edge. It now has a very nice single point annealed spot in it.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Wellz, were in much better shape now.

The existing weld was stitched with a fair amount of heat. Penetration was certainly achieved. This created a low spot at the area.

We added a little more material with some air hardening rod so that there'd be enough meat to make it all flush again.

Then I machined the lug off. Chewed to within a few thousanths of the original surface and stoned it clean. Rather impressed with how it came out.

Used a combo of grinder/belt sander to blend the OD again. Two tiny pits left. I decided to leave those as these little bastages have a habit of being more difficult to remove than one would think.

I was nervous about using dual pins cause the weld was in the location where they'd normally go.

Garrett set it up in the mill and a single hole was poked at the bottom. -Like a Stiller has.

So, were in good shape again. So long as the action isn't blued a guy will likely never know. The weld will be a dead give away if its blued.

Onto barreling tomorrow.

C.

I'll get some pics later. Pooped and going home.

 

[GasLight]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this day and time and from what I've seen and heard others say, I wouldn&#146;t be surprised one bit.

That welded lug would be enough to send me over the edge. It now has a very nice single point annealed spot in it. </div></div>

William,

Do you think this compromised the action? Would you even work on something like this?

Sorry not trying to question the repair at all, just wondering what the annealing would do to the integrity of the action.

Thanks!

Dave

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Well considering that the rifle was built over 10 years ago the proof is kinda in the pudding.

I've never understood why its ok to weld on a nuclear submarine, 100k racing engine, nuclear reactor coolant lines, oil/gas pipeline, etc.. .

Yet its a vile, evil practice to put a torch to a bolt action receiver.

We do it with M-249 SAW machine guns and those aren't even TIG'd. Its a wirefeed. I've been to the plant.

While I don't agree with the execution in this instance we can all plainly see that it didn't hurt anything. The owner's testimony validates it. Look at the big picture for a moment. Anyone here really going to pay top dollar for a rifle from a marque smith and accept poor performance? An unsafe gun?

Remember, its over 10 years old.

I personally own a nesika with a TIG welded scope base. I know~ I warped the action, harrold vaughn is rolling in his grave, an there's no way the receiver will ever be an accurate platform.

Anyone wanna go head to head with 2nd story drop test zero shift evals to 1k yards? This gun holds it.

So well in fact I'm working the details out on a 150 knot, 200ft drop test from a twin engine plane. The owner/pilot has the 300 win mag winny medium tac rifle I built last winter.

"Cinch" a member here, along with his wife, both watched me bounce it off a concrete floor. 100% confidence.



Keep it real~lol!

C.

 

[RADcustom]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In this day and time and from what I've seen and heard others say, I wouldn&#146;t be surprised one bit.

That welded lug would be enough to send me over the edge. It now has a very nice single point annealed spot in it. </div></div>

William,

Do you think this compromised the action? Would you even work on something like this?

Sorry not trying to question the repair at all, just wondering what the annealing would do to the integrity of the action.

Thanks!

Dave </div></div>

Dave,

It is likely that the spots around the weld are hardened rather than annealed. I doubt it will do any harm since there is no stress in that spot. Once Chad brings the surfaces back to true, it will be the same as any other action.

If I found this on a rack in a pawn shop, I would use the appearance as reason to pick it up for a song and would have no problem using it as a donor for a custom.

 

[Doc Holiday13]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G.Ruff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Must have been built by "Red Jacket Firearms".

</div></div>

That would certainly be another "game changer" as they like to call it

 

[2156SMK]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Harold vaughn is rolling in his grave</div></div>

Lol...

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Here's the pics of the finished receiver work. As we can see by and large the repair worked pretty well. Just a couple of very small inclusions/pits. I'd love to work them over but going at this again with a torch isn't something I'm really in any hurry to do. I got away with it once-something is telling me not to push my luck.

If we coat the receiver it'll go completely invisible. Bluing/parkerizing will certainly show what's gone on here.

Onto lapping and hanging a stick off this bugger.

 

[monteboy84]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

That looks great, nice work.

-matt

 

[GasLight]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Yes! That came out awesome for what it started out looking like.

Great work again Chad

 

[gunnergirl81]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

That came out a lot nicer than I was expecting. We ran across a BRNO Mauser that had a Rem/Sav type lug welded to the face of the rec. The guy that had it said it was made that way to handle belted magnums. The bolt face looked like it was opened up with a dremel, and the welds looked like they were done with a mig and flux core wire.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DocHoliday13</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: G.Ruff</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Must have been built by "Red Jacket Firearms".

</div></div>

That would certainly be another "game changer" as they like to call it </div></div>

My husband watched about 10 minutes of that the other night. I had to change the channel before he had a stroke or something. That asshat talks about new models of guns he's "inventing" as "game changers" and they show how much he'll sell them for. Of course thats IF he could sell a post sample MG like hotcakes to any Joe Blow. Facking morons.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Insisting that only factory ammunition, in original packaging, may be carried in traveler's inspected baggage goes far beyond the intent of the regulations

I believe it serves as a prejudicial pretext to employ the regulations as an excuse to subect the inspectee to further inhibition, and harrass the lawful behavior of a particular class of law abiding people; namely, competitive handloaders and shooters, and IMHO constitutes a deliberate profiling tactic with a politically biased intent.

As such, I would consider any restrictions imposed under such a pretext to be actionable under both civil and criminal jurisdiction.

Uh, yeah; what he said...

As a 'quick fix' self protection, I'd suggest you use factory ammo packaging (boxes and shipping cartons), and at least try to match up the headstamp's brand and chambering info with what's marked on the packaging. This is one valid reason why I still buy factory ammo from time to time, to get the packaging

Also, note that limits are based on weight, not rounds count; and stay away from ammo cans and other weighty packaging. You can use your ammo cans to hold anything else you're carrying, like cleaning supplies, etc. The ammo packages can be used as standalone packaging within your baggage, and only <span style="font-style: italic">their</span> actual weight should count against transit limitations.

The best approach is to advance ship ammo ahead separately, via UPS, using factory shipping cartons with the approved ORMD Small Arms Cartridges or Ammunition designation. Ask your Guns/Ammo dealer for specifics.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Onto the stock work!

We've filled up the inlet to start over. This stock was never leveled out properly on the show line either. As you can see in the first photo the R/H side is a bit proud compared to the opposite.

No worries, we have a fix for that.

Onto setting up. . .

Run some tape down the showline and establish center. Then I double check with my "setup gauge" I made years ago while at Nesika. Just plop this sucker down, align it to center, hold with a dab of CA and you have a good reference to indicate from to ensure the stock is centered in the fixture. Keeps barrel channels from wandering.

 

[jwebster]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Beautiful work guys, to say I am impressed would be an understatement, and yes Flash IBA welds a magazine box modified to hold five rounds to actions.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Well, phase two. The stock in the fixture showed that the back end of the stock has a serious curve to it. Show line is all over the place.

That being said I pulled it and added some more material. We'll fly cut the top to get it straight again once it hardens up.

Not a show stopper, just a small delay. Maybe late today/tomorrow morning for getting this bugger ready for bedding.

C.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes! That came out awesome for what it started out looking like.

Great work again Chad </div></div>

Thanks.

Be sure to include Garrett in that too. Were a two armed band now!

 

[Nortex]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Nice work, although I am curious as to who originally built the rifle since there's not but a few big BR guys that hugely known. Also if it seemed ok and was a switch barrel why not just make another barrel.

 

[jwebster]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Garrett will be putting some wrinkles on the new barrel this afternoon.

 

[John L]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: C. Dixon</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So well in fact I'm working the details out on a 150 knot, 200ft drop test from a twin engine plane. The owner/pilot has the 300 win mag winny medium tac rifle I built last winter.

C.

</div></div>

I knew you and Greg were going to get along. I just hope a monster has not been created.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">William,

Do you think this compromised the action? Would you even work on something like this?

Sorry not trying to question the repair at all, just wondering what the annealing would do to the integrity of the action.

Thanks!

Dave </div></div>

At this point, no one really knows how hot the receiver got and how much the hardness changed if any. I'm not really able to commint concerning the integrity of the receiver at this point.

As far as me working on it or not, I would pass if asked simply due to not knowing how hot it got and what the current Rockwell is. It appears to be well on it's way to a repair though.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

Back on this bugger. Filler worked good although I discovered a big nasty upon trying to fixture it up in the mill.

"Someone" really go carried away with the sander when working on this stock From the front edge of the recoil lug to the tang the stock has a steady drop of over .150"!! Meaning the showline is like a banana.

So, had to go back and fill it up even more to obtain a level surface to start from. Nothing like rebuilding a stock.

Were in good shape again though. Were square to the world and ready for inletting come tomorrow morning.

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

WHOLLY $%^& wait till you guys see the other side!

Hold on a sec!

 

[LRI]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"


.225" is how much we had to build this back up. Never seen one this bad before.

 

[Goin'Hot]

Re: 7mm-08 "heart transplant"

If the top were black, I'd say you've made an oreo cookie.