I am getting ready to put together a 7mmRM and started seeing alot of 7wsm threads. I started looking at a few things on paper only, powder charges etc etc. Why are more 7wsm's being built then 7mmRM? Is it that people perfer SA to LA?
7mmRM or 7wsm??
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Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I've been shooting 7mmRM for a long time, I like it. It seems the 7WSM's cartridge profile and design make it more consistent. I still think that if you build a benchrest quality 7mmRM it will shoot as well as the 7WSM but the benchrest guys seem to prefer the 7WSM these days for 1000yard competition. YMMV (your mileage may vary)
I've been shooting 7mmRM for a long time, I like it. It seems the 7WSM's cartridge profile and design make it more consistent. I still think that if you build a benchrest quality 7mmRM it will shoot as well as the 7WSM but the benchrest guys seem to prefer the 7WSM these days for 1000yard competition. YMMV (your mileage may vary)
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I love the WSM versions. There are some benefits to the WSM cartridge without many drawbacks but the full size magnums are great choices as well. When shooting long range one of the only things that the full length versions have over the WSM's is the ability to utilize a heavier bullet. I don't have any experiencs with the 7mm WSM but I do know about the 300WSM vs the 300 win mag. The 300 WSM is limited to around 190-195 (If my memory is correct)grain bullets due to case capacity, the 300 win mag can utilize a heavier grain bullet due to a larger case capacity. The heavier grain bullets are used to help "buck" the wind at extended yardages.
Most people would be very satisfied with the results from the WSM cartridges.......I am.
....SmokeRolls
I love the WSM versions. There are some benefits to the WSM cartridge without many drawbacks but the full size magnums are great choices as well. When shooting long range one of the only things that the full length versions have over the WSM's is the ability to utilize a heavier bullet. I don't have any experiencs with the 7mm WSM but I do know about the 300WSM vs the 300 win mag. The 300 WSM is limited to around 190-195 (If my memory is correct)grain bullets due to case capacity, the 300 win mag can utilize a heavier grain bullet due to a larger case capacity. The heavier grain bullets are used to help "buck" the wind at extended yardages.
Most people would be very satisfied with the results from the WSM cartridges.......I am.
....SmokeRolls
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I'd lean toward the 7mmRemMag myself. I like a long action anyway for the latitude in OAL with different bullets, and throat geometry as it wears.
Reasonably inexpensive and universally available brass is nice too.
A short action is technically stiffer, but I don't think it's enough to quantify in terms accuracy in a well built precision rifle.
I'd lean toward the 7mmRemMag myself. I like a long action anyway for the latitude in OAL with different bullets, and throat geometry as it wears.
Reasonably inexpensive and universally available brass is nice too.
A short action is technically stiffer, but I don't think it's enough to quantify in terms accuracy in a well built precision rifle.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
Also take a look at the 7SAUM. 180 Bergers @ 2,900+ fps in a 26" barrel. Better Brass than the 7WSM and uses less powder. I've owned several 7mmRMs and loved them all. I currently have a 7-300WSM that'll be rebuilt when I get caught up. If I didnt already have brass and dies for the 7-300 I'd build the 7SAUM instead. As far as receivers go, the LA is the only way to fly IMHO.
Also take a look at the 7SAUM. 180 Bergers @ 2,900+ fps in a 26" barrel. Better Brass than the 7WSM and uses less powder. I've owned several 7mmRMs and loved them all. I currently have a 7-300WSM that'll be rebuilt when I get caught up. If I didnt already have brass and dies for the 7-300 I'd build the 7SAUM instead. As far as receivers go, the LA is the only way to fly IMHO.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
Well I just picked up a barrel and la one action from some members on the hide here. One obvious reason is for longer shooting and a bigger hunting rifle. I'm in the midst of a 338 LM build as well. But just a general curiosity question since I see alot of wsm builds etc.
Well I just picked up a barrel and la one action from some members on the hide here. One obvious reason is for longer shooting and a bigger hunting rifle. I'm in the midst of a 338 LM build as well. But just a general curiosity question since I see alot of wsm builds etc.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I have a 300 WSM on a Remmington LA and a 7WSM on a Stiller Preditor SA with a Seekins extended DBM. Both will allow me to load out as far as needed and both feed and eject reliably. If you are going to go with a Rem or the like action and want a DBM system take a look at the bottom metal systems that accept an AI style or clone mag such as the new Alpha mag system that will accept COAL's as close to 3" as possible. Also remember that your smith and the throating reamer control the OAL. Having a box that will accept 4" and a throat set to 2.90 is just a waste of space. Dont leave any of the details undiscussed.
I'm thinking that the 7SAUM will be my next endevor.
I have a 300 WSM on a Remmington LA and a 7WSM on a Stiller Preditor SA with a Seekins extended DBM. Both will allow me to load out as far as needed and both feed and eject reliably. If you are going to go with a Rem or the like action and want a DBM system take a look at the bottom metal systems that accept an AI style or clone mag such as the new Alpha mag system that will accept COAL's as close to 3" as possible. Also remember that your smith and the throating reamer control the OAL. Having a box that will accept 4" and a throat set to 2.90 is just a waste of space. Dont leave any of the details undiscussed.
I'm thinking that the 7SAUM will be my next endevor.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
LR-WSM: I read thst Seekins COl was some 3,14 ??? Can you use long bullets as 162 amax, 175smk or bergers 180 ?? What is your COL and powder charges there??
I am also debating between a 7wsm on a custom action, or a 7rm on a trued factory action ( possibly a Howa).
LR-WSM: I read thst Seekins COl was some 3,14 ??? Can you use long bullets as 162 amax, 175smk or bergers 180 ?? What is your COL and powder charges there??
I am also debating between a 7wsm on a custom action, or a 7rm on a trued factory action ( possibly a Howa).
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I plan on using my 162 amax's with the build im doing. I figured if nothing else maybe I can get a 338LM bottom metal and surely I will have enough magazine to clear the COAL.
I plan on using my 162 amax's with the build im doing. I figured if nothing else maybe I can get a 338LM bottom metal and surely I will have enough magazine to clear the COAL.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
Why go through the trouble...just use the 300WM magazines for the 7mmRM. They are the same case. I've been running my GAP built 7mmRM sitting in an AICS chassis and utilizing 300WM magazines. I've had "0" feeding issues, never touched the feedlips, never messed with the ramps, nothing. It works great and personally given the brass choices and the desire to run the wsm in a LA anyways, at least to utilize the best potential bullet position...don't see the need for the wsm.
The only thing I don't care for about the 7mmRM is the belt. However, once you get used to it, it is really not a big deal. Right now I'm on my 6th reloading of my nosler brass and haven't had any sort of issue with it.
Why go through the trouble...just use the 300WM magazines for the 7mmRM. They are the same case. I've been running my GAP built 7mmRM sitting in an AICS chassis and utilizing 300WM magazines. I've had "0" feeding issues, never touched the feedlips, never messed with the ramps, nothing. It works great and personally given the brass choices and the desire to run the wsm in a LA anyways, at least to utilize the best potential bullet position...don't see the need for the wsm.
The only thing I don't care for about the 7mmRM is the belt. However, once you get used to it, it is really not a big deal. Right now I'm on my 6th reloading of my nosler brass and haven't had any sort of issue with it.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
Yeah I figured the 300wm magazines would work. I havent gotten that far yet to be honest. Im just working out some of the other details right now.
OSU do you have a thread with your 7mmRm's performances?
Yeah I figured the 300wm magazines would work. I havent gotten that far yet to be honest. Im just working out some of the other details right now.
OSU do you have a thread with your 7mmRm's performances?
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
Nope, but here's a couple photos.
My accuracy nodes for the 162gr amax are between 3030-3050, although my rifle has pushed them to 3150. For the 180 bergers my node is right around 2980, although I have pushed them to almost 3,100fps.
Here's my 162gr Amax Ladder test. Target was shot @ 300 yards...it was a little windy but on a ladder test since I maintain the same POA, I usually don't care about horizontal. Wind was from 9:00 and between 3-8mph although I did get an occasional 10-11mph gust.
Nope, but here's a couple photos.
My accuracy nodes for the 162gr amax are between 3030-3050, although my rifle has pushed them to 3150. For the 180 bergers my node is right around 2980, although I have pushed them to almost 3,100fps.
Here's my 162gr Amax Ladder test. Target was shot @ 300 yards...it was a little windy but on a ladder test since I maintain the same POA, I usually don't care about horizontal. Wind was from 9:00 and between 3-8mph although I did get an occasional 10-11mph gust.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why go through the trouble...just use the 300WM magazines for the 7mmRM. They are the same case. I've been running my GAP built 7mmRM sitting in an AICS chassis and utilizing 300WM magazines. I've had "0" feeding issues, never touched the feedlips, never messed with the ramps, nothing. It works great and personally given the brass choices and the desire to run the wsm in a LA anyways, at least to utilize the best potential bullet position...don't see the need for the wsm.
The only thing I don't care for about the 7mmRM is the belt. However, once you get used to it, it is really not a big deal. Right now I'm on my 6th reloading of my nosler brass and haven't had any sort of issue with it. </div></div>
I agree all the way around.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: osuarchitect</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why go through the trouble...just use the 300WM magazines for the 7mmRM. They are the same case. I've been running my GAP built 7mmRM sitting in an AICS chassis and utilizing 300WM magazines. I've had "0" feeding issues, never touched the feedlips, never messed with the ramps, nothing. It works great and personally given the brass choices and the desire to run the wsm in a LA anyways, at least to utilize the best potential bullet position...don't see the need for the wsm.
The only thing I don't care for about the 7mmRM is the belt. However, once you get used to it, it is really not a big deal. Right now I'm on my 6th reloading of my nosler brass and haven't had any sort of issue with it. </div></div>
I agree all the way around.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
My AWSM in 7mm RM will shoot with any WSM.
Actually, RayDog and I get identical ballistics from his WSM and my RM
My AWSM in 7mm RM will shoot with any WSM.
Actually, RayDog and I get identical ballistics from his WSM and my RM
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I like the idea of this thread. Is their a ballistic forum where people that are deciding between a few calibers so some of us don't make the "wrong" choice in what were after
I like the idea of this thread. Is their a ballistic forum where people that are deciding between a few calibers so some of us don't make the "wrong" choice in what were after
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gyr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LR-WSM: I read thst Seekins COl was some 3,14 ??? Can you use long bullets as 162 amax, 175smk or bergers 180 ?? What is your COL and powder charges there??
I am also debating between a 7wsm on a custom action, or a 7rm on a trued factory action ( possibly a Howa). </div></div>
Glen's bottom metal for the WSM will allow for 3.15" I use the 162 A-max seated at 2.95 I'm running 68.4 grns of IMR 7828ssc and averaging 3105 fps with no pressure signs.
It really depends on where you want the base of the bullet in relation to the powder collumn and having your smith set it up that way.
Rem 'Vs' custom action,..... think resale value. When you get done tuning the Rem throughout the 3 to 5 years you'll keep it you'll still have a remmington action.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gyr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LR-WSM: I read thst Seekins COl was some 3,14 ??? Can you use long bullets as 162 amax, 175smk or bergers 180 ?? What is your COL and powder charges there??
I am also debating between a 7wsm on a custom action, or a 7rm on a trued factory action ( possibly a Howa). </div></div>
Glen's bottom metal for the WSM will allow for 3.15" I use the 162 A-max seated at 2.95 I'm running 68.4 grns of IMR 7828ssc and averaging 3105 fps with no pressure signs.
It really depends on where you want the base of the bullet in relation to the powder collumn and having your smith set it up that way.
Rem 'Vs' custom action,..... think resale value. When you get done tuning the Rem throughout the 3 to 5 years you'll keep it you'll still have a remmington action.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I've been shootin a 7RM for years. It's does a great job as a dual role gun for LR and hunting. Knocks em dead way out there! The ballistics are fairly hard to beat. There are better rounds but I agree I've seen alot of the 7WSM and 7-08. Friend of mine is trying to build a 7-08 and then we're gonna compare the two for distance.
I've been shootin a 7RM for years. It's does a great job as a dual role gun for LR and hunting. Knocks em dead way out there! The ballistics are fairly hard to beat. There are better rounds but I agree I've seen alot of the 7WSM and 7-08. Friend of mine is trying to build a 7-08 and then we're gonna compare the two for distance.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thekubiaks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shooting 7mmRM for a long time, I like it. It seems the 7WSM's cartridge profile and design make it more consistent. I still think that if you build a benchrest quality 7mmRM it will shoot as well as the 7WSM but the benchrest guys seem to prefer the 7WSM these days for 1000yard competition. YMMV (your mileage may vary) </div></div>
Yeah, the mileage probably will vary but I really wonder how much. Probably determined a lot by the load, the barrel and the initial chamber cut. I've had a 7RM previously and it shot lights out. I'm thinking along these same lines for a tactical setup but am also considering the SAUM pretty strongly. Interesting and timely information here for me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: thekubiaks</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been shooting 7mmRM for a long time, I like it. It seems the 7WSM's cartridge profile and design make it more consistent. I still think that if you build a benchrest quality 7mmRM it will shoot as well as the 7WSM but the benchrest guys seem to prefer the 7WSM these days for 1000yard competition. YMMV (your mileage may vary) </div></div>
Yeah, the mileage probably will vary but I really wonder how much. Probably determined a lot by the load, the barrel and the initial chamber cut. I've had a 7RM previously and it shot lights out. I'm thinking along these same lines for a tactical setup but am also considering the SAUM pretty strongly. Interesting and timely information here for me.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dpreston</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Short actions are stiffer than long actions. </div></div>
is that a difference can be seen on target? i bet not and i certainly wouldn't choose one caliber over another based purely on that reason.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dpreston</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Short actions are stiffer than long actions. </div></div>
is that a difference can be seen on target? i bet not and i certainly wouldn't choose one caliber over another based purely on that reason.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
7SAUM in a short action is ideal. But you will be seating a 180VLD very deep in the case and there will be mag length issues to overcome. 7WSM is a fad, and can be finnicky to load for with neck issues. If it was me, I'd go 7Mag in a long action and use AICS mags.
7SAUM in a short action is ideal. But you will be seating a 180VLD very deep in the case and there will be mag length issues to overcome. 7WSM is a fad, and can be finnicky to load for with neck issues. If it was me, I'd go 7Mag in a long action and use AICS mags.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I got my 162 a-max's yesterday...they look awesome. Cant wait to get the 7mmRM together and maybe find some berger hunting 180's and start playing with loads on the 162 and 180 and see what the 1/9 twist of this rifle will like.
I got my 162 a-max's yesterday...they look awesome. Cant wait to get the 7mmRM together and maybe find some berger hunting 180's and start playing with loads on the 162 and 180 and see what the 1/9 twist of this rifle will like.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7SAUM in a short action is ideal. But you will be seating a 180VLD very deep in the case and there will be mag length issues to overcome. 7WSM is a fad, and can be finnicky to load for with neck issues. If it was me, I'd go 7Mag in a long action and use AICS mags. </div></div>
Graham, while I agree with your first statement I'll need some elaboration on the rest of it. I currently own 2 WSM's and one of them is built on a SA. I can get out to 3.15 and still feed reliably from a Seekins DBM. You told the OP to use a AICS mag and that system will come very close to 3" in a SA system with a modified magazine.
I've never had any neck issues but I anneal after every 3rd firing. As far as the WSM being a fad only time will tell. They do pretty well stacked up against their full sized siblings with less powder. Kinda like the SAUM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">7SAUM in a short action is ideal. But you will be seating a 180VLD very deep in the case and there will be mag length issues to overcome. 7WSM is a fad, and can be finnicky to load for with neck issues. If it was me, I'd go 7Mag in a long action and use AICS mags. </div></div>
Graham, while I agree with your first statement I'll need some elaboration on the rest of it. I currently own 2 WSM's and one of them is built on a SA. I can get out to 3.15 and still feed reliably from a Seekins DBM. You told the OP to use a AICS mag and that system will come very close to 3" in a SA system with a modified magazine.
I've never had any neck issues but I anneal after every 3rd firing. As far as the WSM being a fad only time will tell. They do pretty well stacked up against their full sized siblings with less powder. Kinda like the SAUM
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LR-WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham, while I agree with your first statement I'll need some elaboration on the rest of it....</div></div>I said to build 7mm (Rem) Mag on a Long Action and use AICS mags. You can load a 7mm bullet from here to Cleveland in a magazine like that.
I have seen Winchester WSM cases with very thick necks and thickness uniformity problems. I don't turn necks, so I care about over-the-counter brass quality. And there aren't many manufacturers of 7WSM brass. The WSM's are also more prone to donuts (as opposes to doughnuts).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LR-WSM</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Graham, while I agree with your first statement I'll need some elaboration on the rest of it....</div></div>I said to build 7mm (Rem) Mag on a Long Action and use AICS mags. You can load a 7mm bullet from here to Cleveland in a magazine like that.
I have seen Winchester WSM cases with very thick necks and thickness uniformity problems. I don't turn necks, so I care about over-the-counter brass quality. And there aren't many manufacturers of 7WSM brass. The WSM's are also more prone to donuts (as opposes to doughnuts).
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
Yeah, Winchester makes shitty brass. I only got 16 reloadings out of my WSM brass before retiring it since I was changing barrels.
Yeah, Winchester makes shitty brass. I only got 16 reloadings out of my WSM brass before retiring it since I was changing barrels.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, Winchester makes shitty brass. I only got 16 reloadings out of my WSM brass before retiring it since I was changing barrels.</div></div>Sometimes it pays not to jump to conclusions. How many times you have reloaded a piece of brass has little to do with case neck tolerances or uniformity out of the box. In general, given a decent amount of case prep, Winchester brass is quite good. But I hate case prep. That's why I like Lapua brass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah, Winchester makes shitty brass. I only got 16 reloadings out of my WSM brass before retiring it since I was changing barrels.</div></div>Sometimes it pays not to jump to conclusions. How many times you have reloaded a piece of brass has little to do with case neck tolerances or uniformity out of the box. In general, given a decent amount of case prep, Winchester brass is quite good. But I hate case prep. That's why I like Lapua brass.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sometimes it pays not to jump to conclusions. How many times you have reloaded a piece of brass has little to do with case neck tolerances or uniformity out of the box. In general, given a decent amount of case prep, Winchester brass is quite good. But I hate case prep. That's why I like Lapua brass. </div></div>
That's why I use Norma brass in my 7mmWSM. It's as easy fireform from 300WSM brass. Then you eliminate all the prep and problems Win brass.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sometimes it pays not to jump to conclusions. How many times you have reloaded a piece of brass has little to do with case neck tolerances or uniformity out of the box. In general, given a decent amount of case prep, Winchester brass is quite good. But I hate case prep. That's why I like Lapua brass. </div></div>
That's why I use Norma brass in my 7mmWSM. It's as easy fireform from 300WSM brass. Then you eliminate all the prep and problems Win brass.
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I've chambered both, and I have to say that unless there is a reason you want a short action, I like the 7mmRM better. Just my hummble opinion. You really can't go wrong with what's been tried and proven over many years, it takes a lot of the what ifs out.
If you were to go S/A, although I haven't built one yet, I agree with a lot of the above, I think the 7MM SAUM is a better design. But I wonder with these new cartidges, which ones will make it long term and which ones will fade away in the history books and brass becoming hard to get.
Good Luck,
JamieD
______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994
I've chambered both, and I have to say that unless there is a reason you want a short action, I like the 7mmRM better. Just my hummble opinion. You really can't go wrong with what's been tried and proven over many years, it takes a lot of the what ifs out.
If you were to go S/A, although I haven't built one yet, I agree with a lot of the above, I think the 7MM SAUM is a better design. But I wonder with these new cartidges, which ones will make it long term and which ones will fade away in the history books and brass becoming hard to get.
Good Luck,
JamieD
______________________________
Jamie Dodson
Wolf Precision
814-262-7994
Re: 7mmRM or 7wsm??
I just built a 7rm for long range. Initially i wanted the SARUM, but went with the RM due to the additional brass prep needed with the short rem and my smith did not have the reamer. All three are really close you will be happy with what ever you pick. If I were setting up a gun for targets only i would have gone with the SARUM. It will be my next build.
I just built a 7rm for long range. Initially i wanted the SARUM, but went with the RM due to the additional brass prep needed with the short rem and my smith did not have the reamer. All three are really close you will be happy with what ever you pick. If I were setting up a gun for targets only i would have gone with the SARUM. It will be my next build.
