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Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
I went to basic many years ago (1966) we didnt use sticks, we used Bayonets for probing. Worked good in Vietnam also. Also I dumped the entrencing tool (do to weight) and found I could dig a hole pretty dern quick with the bayonet.
My father (who served in the SP in WWII and in Korea) told me before I deployed to SE Asia, never to sharpen a bayonet as it will cause them to stick. Never poked any one, but there was no reason to sharpen someing you're gonna dig with. I had a good pocket knive (the US silver version of the Boy Scout Knife) that I kept sharp. Between the two, I never felt the need for any other knives.
I like the new bayonets for the M16A2 because of the wire cutting abilities but they are too heavy. I think if I was to do it again, I'd replace the pocket knife with a leatherman tool, but still take the bayonet for the M16a1.
Now days I find I only need my pocket knife for everyday use and for hunting. I have lots of knives but find anything bigger then the pocket knife is too big and gets in the way.
I went to basic many years ago (1966) we didnt use sticks, we used Bayonets for probing. Worked good in Vietnam also. Also I dumped the entrencing tool (do to weight) and found I could dig a hole pretty dern quick with the bayonet.
My father (who served in the SP in WWII and in Korea) told me before I deployed to SE Asia, never to sharpen a bayonet as it will cause them to stick. Never poked any one, but there was no reason to sharpen someing you're gonna dig with. I had a good pocket knive (the US silver version of the Boy Scout Knife) that I kept sharp. Between the two, I never felt the need for any other knives.
I like the new bayonets for the M16A2 because of the wire cutting abilities but they are too heavy. I think if I was to do it again, I'd replace the pocket knife with a leatherman tool, but still take the bayonet for the M16a1.
Now days I find I only need my pocket knife for everyday use and for hunting. I have lots of knives but find anything bigger then the pocket knife is too big and gets in the way.
Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
I went through basic in '09. I was one of the last cycles at Ft. Jackson to be taught the bayonet. They teach us some new things; using night vision devices and the AN/PEQ-2, combatives, combat life-saver course, and more MOUT.
There's a lot of historical skills they don't teach anymore because of the increased specialization and changing battlefield of the army. The mine probing you're talking about is in the past. They make IEDs out of anything and everything and put them everywhere. A guy in my unit told me about a dog that hung out around his FOB that was kidnapped, had a bomb shoved in it, and was sent back alive to hit the FOB.
Engineers and EOD do most of the route clearance. They'll mount up, ride out in convoys and look for IEDs. When engineers find the IEDs, they call in EOD when available to difuse them.
That shirt has velcro pockets on the chest and shoulder? It's probably an ACU top done in desert with a broken zipper. The zippers are terrible; I've broken about three of those just putting them on.
I went through basic in '09. I was one of the last cycles at Ft. Jackson to be taught the bayonet. They teach us some new things; using night vision devices and the AN/PEQ-2, combatives, combat life-saver course, and more MOUT.
There's a lot of historical skills they don't teach anymore because of the increased specialization and changing battlefield of the army. The mine probing you're talking about is in the past. They make IEDs out of anything and everything and put them everywhere. A guy in my unit told me about a dog that hung out around his FOB that was kidnapped, had a bomb shoved in it, and was sent back alive to hit the FOB.
Engineers and EOD do most of the route clearance. They'll mount up, ride out in convoys and look for IEDs. When engineers find the IEDs, they call in EOD when available to difuse them.
That shirt has velcro pockets on the chest and shoulder? It's probably an ACU top done in desert with a broken zipper. The zippers are terrible; I've broken about three of those just putting them on.
Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
So you went through Jackson, what's your MOS? Only asking because having done BASIC/AIT in '03 as a 19D Cavalry Scout, and having a 13 month deployment in 04/05, never saw engineers out doing a combat patrol. When it came to route recon and IED sweeps, that fell to the scouts, and occasionally SGM's rag-tag group on combat-convoy wannabes. Honestly, who puts a cook behind the .50..... Anywho..
Perhaps things have changed since my deployment. We didnt even have armor on our 'Vees when we got there. Now I can't even name all the daggone vehicles they've gotten to replace the crap we rolled in. Would like to have gotten a deployment in some of the new models, but lets face it, we preferred our feet anyway.
They did still teach mine clearing with a stick, for all of like 2 hours. It was part of a field exercise, can't remember the name of the range on Ft Knox, but it was a long day of "field craft" (camo, cover/concealment, low crawl, low crawl... low crawl....) and a blank firing exercise at night. All in the rain. Yippee!
So you went through Jackson, what's your MOS? Only asking because having done BASIC/AIT in '03 as a 19D Cavalry Scout, and having a 13 month deployment in 04/05, never saw engineers out doing a combat patrol. When it came to route recon and IED sweeps, that fell to the scouts, and occasionally SGM's rag-tag group on combat-convoy wannabes. Honestly, who puts a cook behind the .50..... Anywho..
Perhaps things have changed since my deployment. We didnt even have armor on our 'Vees when we got there. Now I can't even name all the daggone vehicles they've gotten to replace the crap we rolled in. Would like to have gotten a deployment in some of the new models, but lets face it, we preferred our feet anyway.
They did still teach mine clearing with a stick, for all of like 2 hours. It was part of a field exercise, can't remember the name of the range on Ft Knox, but it was a long day of "field craft" (camo, cover/concealment, low crawl, low crawl... low crawl....) and a blank firing exercise at night. All in the rain. Yippee!
Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
On a side note, a majority of our training was still for squad sized element, dismounted patrols. MOUT came as a close second, as it was really heating up about that time, but there was still very little training doctrine for it. Our first foray in mout involved us tossing the entire barracks and using lockers and beds to create false walls in the room. Essentially turned the entire barracks into a shoot house. We'd run through in squads and clear room after room after room while another platoon played OPFOR. We'd have DS's standing there teaching a different lesson at each room, handing out fake "injuries" for was us CLS practices on. Really a GREAT training program, and the one I'll remember the most. The entire thing kicked off with a 2 mile urban dismounted patrol just to get the barracks. Scrollin the roads, covering fire, good times man.
On a side note, a majority of our training was still for squad sized element, dismounted patrols. MOUT came as a close second, as it was really heating up about that time, but there was still very little training doctrine for it. Our first foray in mout involved us tossing the entire barracks and using lockers and beds to create false walls in the room. Essentially turned the entire barracks into a shoot house. We'd run through in squads and clear room after room after room while another platoon played OPFOR. We'd have DS's standing there teaching a different lesson at each room, handing out fake "injuries" for was us CLS practices on. Really a GREAT training program, and the one I'll remember the most. The entire thing kicked off with a 2 mile urban dismounted patrol just to get the barracks. Scrollin the roads, covering fire, good times man.
Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
Went through Benning in 2010, and received no training with sticks or bayonets. As a matter of fact, we do not carry bayonets on our kits at all, they are now used for D&C only. We are deploying with metal detectors and bomb sniffing dogs as an alternative.
As far as the DCU top goes, it sounds like you just picked one with a broken zipper. All army uniforms use a zipper and hook and loop now (on top only). The gortex jacket has buttons inside for a smokers jacket, but thats about the only jacket liner I know of. Dont know if that answers your questions at all.
Went through Benning in 2010, and received no training with sticks or bayonets. As a matter of fact, we do not carry bayonets on our kits at all, they are now used for D&C only. We are deploying with metal detectors and bomb sniffing dogs as an alternative.
As far as the DCU top goes, it sounds like you just picked one with a broken zipper. All army uniforms use a zipper and hook and loop now (on top only). The gortex jacket has buttons inside for a smokers jacket, but thats about the only jacket liner I know of. Dont know if that answers your questions at all.
Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
Last time I did mine detection class was probably 05. And you can't use your knife because it was a magnetic surface. That was when we called it CTT, I'm still not hip to this new Warrior Task crap; maybe Im just getting old a bitter about technology and pusification.
In 04 I don't remember EOD or Engineers doing much of anything till we called them. It is pretty common now for engineers to do route clearance (mounted on MSRs only) but EOD doesn't go anywhere unless the phone rings.
OP all our gear now is zippers and velcro and its crappy. I can burn up a pair of ACUs in one field problem, they seem to be much thinner then the BDUs. I know a lot of LEOs who have had great success with wear and tear on marine digis. Not to mention ACU only blends in to gravel.
Last time I did mine detection class was probably 05. And you can't use your knife because it was a magnetic surface. That was when we called it CTT, I'm still not hip to this new Warrior Task crap; maybe Im just getting old a bitter about technology and pusification.
In 04 I don't remember EOD or Engineers doing much of anything till we called them. It is pretty common now for engineers to do route clearance (mounted on MSRs only) but EOD doesn't go anywhere unless the phone rings.
OP all our gear now is zippers and velcro and its crappy. I can burn up a pair of ACUs in one field problem, they seem to be much thinner then the BDUs. I know a lot of LEOs who have had great success with wear and tear on marine digis. Not to mention ACU only blends in to gravel.
Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't remember EOD or Engineers doing much of anything till we called them</div></div>
I don't know about that. When I first got to Vietnam, prior to going to the infantry I was assigned to the 101st MP Plt. We used gun jeeps to cover the Army EOD and Engineers on road sweeps much like you see in Afgan today. Every morning we'd follow EOD & engineers with their detectors and a dump truck loaded with dirt backing over the road for what the EOD/Eng's missed.
We we first got in country we had a training sessions on booby traps, what is called IED,s now. We had a lot of problems with booby traps, you just didn't hear about them much because we mostly stayed off the roads.
I retired in '92 so I can't really tell you how its been after that.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't remember EOD or Engineers doing much of anything till we called them</div></div>
I don't know about that. When I first got to Vietnam, prior to going to the infantry I was assigned to the 101st MP Plt. We used gun jeeps to cover the Army EOD and Engineers on road sweeps much like you see in Afgan today. Every morning we'd follow EOD & engineers with their detectors and a dump truck loaded with dirt backing over the road for what the EOD/Eng's missed.
We we first got in country we had a training sessions on booby traps, what is called IED,s now. We had a lot of problems with booby traps, you just didn't hear about them much because we mostly stayed off the roads.
I retired in '92 so I can't really tell you how its been after that.
Re: Questions on current Basic, AIT & ACU / DCU
The answer is no, the old training is not relevant. Probing for mines is a whole other deal from probing initiators of IED's. Mines are a controled item. There is a finite number of types with a specific number of initiation methods, all of which can be researched and have specific disarming methods(even if its BIP).
IED's are built using virtually anything and the commplexity/nastyness/anti-tampering ability is all dependent on the intelligence level of the individual that built it.
Either way, what is taught in AIT is in no way shape or form even remotely adequate for dealing with explosive hazards. There is a reason the EOD guys go to school for a year. Even those experts are not always sucessful.
The best mindset to have is to maintain high situational awareness, respect the device and avoid. Dont poke, Dont pick up, Dont cut wires, Dont cut strings, Etc.
The answer is no, the old training is not relevant. Probing for mines is a whole other deal from probing initiators of IED's. Mines are a controled item. There is a finite number of types with a specific number of initiation methods, all of which can be researched and have specific disarming methods(even if its BIP).
IED's are built using virtually anything and the commplexity/nastyness/anti-tampering ability is all dependent on the intelligence level of the individual that built it.
Either way, what is taught in AIT is in no way shape or form even remotely adequate for dealing with explosive hazards. There is a reason the EOD guys go to school for a year. Even those experts are not always sucessful.
The best mindset to have is to maintain high situational awareness, respect the device and avoid. Dont poke, Dont pick up, Dont cut wires, Dont cut strings, Etc.
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