A few questions before I begin

[earthquake]

If you've read any of my past posts on here, you'll know I'm getting close to being able to start reloading for my first time. I've been reading and reading and reading and asking questions on here, many have helped and it's appreciated. With that let me bring up a few final issues.

1. Do I need to trim brass every time?
a. I have a lot of Hornady 6.5Creedmoor brass, once fired, in my gun, and still don't have a trimmer. Well, I have a zip-trim, but it's a PITA. My brass is measuring ~1.913" average. Is that good? What SHOULD it be trimmed to if necessary?

2. Do I need to clean the INSIDE of my brass?
a. I do not have a case cleaner/tumbler yet. I've been putting them one at a time in my zip-trim and spinning them against some steel wool, which does a nice job polishing them, but again, is a PITA. However, it doesn't clean the insides. I AM however cleaning the primer pockets manually too. Just wondering if I can start or should wait until I pick up a tumbler.

3. I've been doing a lot of COAL measuring with my Hornady OAL gauge (It's about all I can do right now besides decap all my brass). Here are my measurements and let me know if these sound reasonable or not:

Berger 130gr VLD to Ogive in inches ("): average length = 2.201" base to Ogive

Berger 140gr VLD hybrid to Ogive in ("): average length = 2.230" base to Ogive

Does that sound about right for those bullets in a 6.5mm Creedmoor chamber?

*Here's one final question. A friend gave me 50 of his reloads (DON'T WORRY, I'M NOT GOING TO SHOOT THEM!!) and after measuring his base to ogive, they are on average 2.200", which is damn near identical to my COAL base to ogive, +/- 0.001" or so. BUT, and here's the issue, I can't chamber his ammo. I tried....not to fire it, just to see the fit.

With nearly identical base to ogive measurements, why can't I chamber his rounds? I'm thinking his shoulder bump length/measurement is longer than what my chamber's is. I do NOT have a bump gauge insert yet so I haven't measured mine (that's next on the purchase list).

Here's another reason (maybe?) that I think his cases are too long. Here's my once fired brass chambered:


And here's his:


Does it look to you like his are "out" more? Again, I am NOT going to shoot his ammo. I'm just learning here by messing with my equipment and reading. I just want to know what I'm looking at and seeing for clarification purposes.

I think I'll just pull all his bullets and save the pow. They are 130 VLD's too and 44.5gr of H4350.

Also, here's how the bullets looked after removing his ammo from my gun...what is causing the scratches? I thought they were being pulled out of the case, but the measurements before and after chambering are the same.

 

[LawnMM]

Bear with me, responding by phone. The marks on your bullet tips are from the bolt jamming the bullet into the lands of the barrel. His ammo won't chamber because his headspace is different than yours, as you suspect, the distance between his shoulder and the chamber wall is longer than on your gun. You need a headspace gauge before you start or you won't have your dies set properly.

You should invest in a reloading manual so you have easy access to max coal, case trim lengths, etc for different calibers. You don't have to trim brass after each firing as long as the neck doesn't grow to the point of making chambering difficult. That said I trim mine every time, it eliminates one more potential problem that can arise.

 

[colscar]

i agree get a good reload manual and follow specs and check the headspace from your fired brass and bump it back -.002 with your fls die. if your brass measures less than what the manual says you should be ok, cleaning brass is up to you, but if you want consistant results it wouldnt hurt.

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/6_5 Creedmoor.pdf

 

[earthquake]

Thank you all. I have the Berger manual only so far. I just saw in there a measurement from base to mouth of 1.920", so I'm a little less than that. Shorter is better than longer.

In looking at Brownell's "How to use a headspace go/no-go gauge" report and watching the Midway video, I don't think I need this. Looks to me like the go/no-go gauges are for gunsmiths when building the rifles....mine shoots, so I don't think I need these.

However, I saw the Hornady kit: Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Kit without Body

Is this what I should look at buying? There is a nice vid on youtube on using it....looks simple enough. What I'm wondering now is, how is this different from a bump-guage: Sinclair Bump Gage Insert

Do I need BOTH of the above, and what information will one give me over the other?

 

[EXTREMEPREJUDICE]

Respectfully, as already advised I would recommend you use a good reloading manual and first learn to hand-load to SAAMI specifications. Keep your dimensions between min and max spec and then after a hundred rounds or so you can take your fire formed brass and start to apply some of the principles to develop an optimal charge specifically for your rifle. Your enthusiasm is getting you ahead of your knowledge/skill level at this juncture and at the least will have you wasting your hard earned money on tools that won't help your load development. Hand-loading isn't rocket science but requires incremental knowledge and experience to be successful. Good luck!

 

[RTK]

+1

 

[JGorski]

If you've read any of my past posts on here, you'll know I'm getting close to being able to start reloading for my first time. I've been reading and reading and reading and asking questions on here, many have helped and it's appreciated. With that let me bring up a few final issues.

1. Do I need to trim brass every time?
a. I have a lot of Hornady 6.5Creedmoor brass, once fired, in my gun, and still don't have a trimmer. Well, I have a zip-trim, but it's a PITA. My brass is measuring ~1.913" average. Is that good? What SHOULD it be trimmed to if necessary?

2. Do I need to clean the INSIDE of my brass?
a. I do not have a case cleaner/tumbler yet. I've been putting them one at a time in my zip-trim and spinning them against some steel wool, which does a nice job polishing them, but again, is a PITA. However, it doesn't clean the insides. I AM however cleaning the primer pockets manually too. Just wondering if I can start or should wait until I pick up a tumbler.

3. I've been doing a lot of COAL measuring with my Hornady OAL gauge (It's about all I can do right now besides decap all my brass). Here are my measurements and let me know if these sound reasonable or not:

Berger 130gr VLD to Ogive in inches ("): average length = 2.201" base to Ogive

Berger 140gr VLD hybrid to Ogive in ("): average length = 2.230" base to Ogive

Does that sound about right for those bullets in a 6.5mm Creedmoor chamber?

*Here's one final question. A friend gave me 50 of his reloads (DON'T WORRY, I'M NOT GOING TO SHOOT THEM!!) and after measuring his base to ogive, they are on average 2.200", which is damn near identical to my COAL base to ogive, +/- 0.001" or so. BUT, and here's the issue, I can't chamber his ammo. I tried....not to fire it, just to see the fit.

With nearly identical base to ogive measurements, why can't I chamber his rounds? I'm thinking his shoulder bump length/measurement is longer than what my chamber's is. I do NOT have a bump gauge insert yet so I haven't measured mine (that's next on the purchase list).

Here's another reason (maybe?) that I think his cases are too long. Here's my once fired brass chambered:


And here's his:


Does it look to you like his are "out" more? Again, I am NOT going to shoot his ammo. I'm just learning here by messing with my equipment and reading. I just want to know what I'm looking at and seeing for clarification purposes.

I think I'll just pull all his bullets and save the pow. They are 130 VLD's too and 44.5gr of H4350.

Also, here's how the bullets looked after removing his ammo from my gun...what is causing the scratches? I thought they were being pulled out of the case, but the measurements before and after chambering are the same.

You can't chamber your buddies rounds because he didn't bump the shoulder back enough to fit your chamber, you definitely should invest in Hornadys Hornady Manufacturing Company :: Reloading :: Metallic Reloading :: Tools & Gauges :: Lock-N-Load Gauges-Formerly Stoney Point :: Headspace Gauges :: Headspace Gauge Kits :: Lock-N-Load® Headspace Kit With Body 1 Each , once you have some fired brass measure the length from the datum line to the base and size or bump your shoulders on your cases from .0015-002", of course make sure they chamber almost like a factory round would, I wouldn't worry too much about the length of the case itself, I trim my Creedmoor brass to 1.917" so you're definitely in range, but you dont need to trim that much after sizing. Best of luck, Im sure you'll do just fine once you're all educated about the ins and outs of reloading.

 

[JGorski]

Thank you all. I have the Berger manual only so far. I just saw in there a measurement from base to mouth of 1.920", so I'm a little less than that. Shorter is better than longer.

In looking at Brownell's "How to use a headspace go/no-go gauge" report and watching the Midway video, I don't think I need this. Looks to me like the go/no-go gauges are for gunsmiths when building the rifles....mine shoots, so I don't think I need these.

However, I saw the Hornady kit: Hornady Lock-N-Load Headspace Kit without Body

Is this what I should look at buying? There is a nice vid on youtube on using it....looks simple enough. What I'm wondering now is, how is this different from a bump-guage: Sinclair Bump Gage Insert

Do I need BOTH of the above, and what information will one give me over the other?

Yes, get the one with the body. Get the Hornady.

 

[afate45]

I use the hornady comparator for bullet measurement and shoulder bumping...works like a charm. Definitely something you should pick up.

I broke my Zip Trim after about 500 rounds when I first started loading...they are truly at PITA. For case trimming, the 3-way cutter head from RCBS is truly amazing once you get it set up. It combines trimming, chamfering and deburring in one step. It will fit on the Hornady Lock-N-Load trimmer too. I use the Hornady trimmer and it works extremely well. Just make sure you get the 6.5mm pilot and you're GTG. You can also pick up the 3-way cutter and it will work with any caliber, you just need to buy the right pilot for it. It uses a special pilot that has a blade on it that chamfers. For example, I bought the 22cal 3-way cutter for 223, and now I have a 30 cal and 26 cal pilot on the way. Also worth noting, if you do pick up a Hornady trimmer, make sure to buy the 26 cal pilot for it...the standard package doesn't come with one. Regarding trim length, I trim my cases to a uniform length every time. If your cases are at 1.913, that's fine.

For cleaning the brass, you don't have to clean the inside, but I like to. If you have the coin, pick up a Thumlers Tumbler and some SS media...I like it better than ultrasonic cleaning. Tumble for a couple hours, and your brass will look brand new.

Have you thought about getting into annealing? I know that's a lot to add to your plate out of the gate with reloading, but I was just curious. It sounds like you will be a meticulous reloader, much like I am, and I've found annealing after every firing gives me extremely consistent results and great brass life. The setup I use costs about 20 bucks, and its really easy, fast and consistent.

Hope that helps!

 

[Pinecone]

For trimming, I went with a WFT (World's Finest Trimmer).

As for case cleaning, the most important thing to remove and dirt of grit from the cases that will damage your dies. For that, you can even just wash them with dishwashign liquid and water.

In most manuals there is a spec for maximum case lenght and Trim To length. When you reach the max, you trim to the Trim To. This is the basic way. Some people trim every time to maintain a precise case length.

 

[earthquake]

Thanks again. I guess I wasn't clear, sorry, but I do have the Hornady comparator body, and an insert for measuring ogive lengths for my bullets. So I was just going to pick up the Hornady case length inserts to measure case length (to set shoulder bump)....but is that the same thing or different then one of Sinclair's "bump-gauge" inserts?

I have ~600 pieces of once fired (in my rifle) Hornady brass.

I'm am looking at getting a WFT as well. Seems to be a good item, speedy, easy to use and does a pretty good job. Got a b-day coming up so maybe the wife'll get me a tumbler. Should be set then.

I also do have the Lyman manual on order, and I agree that I should read more/other manuals.

 

[Spicerack]

If the wife doesn't come through for the b-day or the funds are short, for wet tumbling you could go the cheap route like a few of us: $50 ($40 after coupon) harbor freight rock tumbler Dual Drum Rotary Rock Tumbler with SS media. You can find the 20% coupons online or in magazines and you are in business for a small price but you have to do it in smaller batches. Not sure how much you plan on doing, but it works great for me doing about 400-500 rounds per month. If you deprime using a universal decapping die then tumble, this gets the brass clean inside and out and does your primer pockets too.

 

[LawnMM]

The Sinclair bumo gauge is the tool you need, problem is they don't make an insert for 6.5CM yet, at least I've never seen one. Its different than a go gauge, you ate measuring movement of the shoulder after sizing with the bump gauge. It's also a great way to ruin your brass. You need this tool to set your dies up. The sillyass 'screw the die in till it touches and back off a quatter turn' methods will result in improperly set dies and premature wear and failure of your brass. I ruined my whole first lot of brass with improperly set dies.

Wilson makes a 6.5CM headspace gauge and midway sells them, well worth the price.

 

[JGorski]

The Sinclair bumo gauge is the tool you need, problem is they don't make an insert for 6.5CM yet, at least I've never seen one. Its different than a go gauge, you ate measuring movement of the shoulder after sizing with the bump gauge. It's also a great way to ruin your brass. You need this tool to set your dies up. The sillyass 'screw the die in till it touches and back off a quatter turn' methods will result in improperly set dies and premature wear and failure of your brass. I ruined my whole first lot of brass with improperly set dies.

Wilson makes a 6.5CM headspace gauge and midway sells them, well worth the price.

Fuck that, if you have the Hornady bump gauge use it and the .375 insert, I set my creedmoor brass to 1.5545", my fired cases measure 1.5585", which is about .002" more than I wanted but when I sized last time I didn't have the bump gauge inserts, next time I'll set the shoulder back no more than .002".

 

[LawnMM]

I'm confused, fuck spending 27 dollars on a tool that lets you set up the dies properly, instead rig up a method that oversizes the brass by double what most people strive for? You will spend more than the 27 bucks on a single box of brass...

 

[afate45]

Fuck that, if you have the Hornady bump gauge use it and the .375 insert, I set my creedmoor brass to 1.5545", my fired cases measure 1.5585", which is about .002" more than I wanted but when I sized last time I didn't have the bump gauge inserts, next time I'll set the shoulder back no more than .002".

Doesn't the .400 Hornady headspace gauge work? SAAMI says that's where you measure. Same one works for 308/260/etc... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that's the proper one to use.

COfox - Since you have the Hornady comparator body, all you need to do is spend 10 bucks at Midway on the .400 gauge and you're set. They have them in stock if you want to go that route.

 

[JGorski]

Doesn't the .400 Hornady headspace gauge work? SAAMI says that's where you measure. Same one works for 308/260/etc... Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm almost certain that's the proper one to use.

COfox - Since you have the Hornady comparator body, all you need to do is spend 10 bucks at Midway on the .400 gauge and you're set. They have them in stock if you want to go that route.

Called Hornady yesterday, tech figured out the 375 was the correct insert for the creedmoor.

 

[JGorski]

COfox - Since you have the Hornady comparator body, all you need to do is spend 10 bucks at Midway on the .400 gauge and you're set. They have them in stock if you want to go that route.[/QUOTE]
Buy the whole set then you'll have inserts for all your rounds.