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Rifle Scopes A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

LibertyOptics

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...taking the IOR 3-18x42 SH FFP tp the next level.....

Hiders,

Here is a very short "state of the IOR SH 3-18 FFP" address...

The scopes features, optics, reticle, and design seem to have been a real winner in retrospect, but there seem to be three issues that need to be dealt with:

1) Too short of eye relief
2) Too short of a rear ring mounting surface
3) For one out of every ten of you, poor build quality (failure of the scope), and for the rest, the possibility that the perecentage of failures might grow. Whatever the chances are, I have to acknowledge they exist. Even though the Gen 3 has been the best yet, it's still not "there" yet..

So, what could we do to take and excellent scope design, and an excellent FFP reticle (designed with heavy input from the members here), and make it WORK for you, the shooters?

Just kicking this around in a very preliminary fashion...how does this sound?

SN3 3.2-17x44
T-Pal
35mm tube
EREK 1/10 mil knob, 1/10mil windage knob
Illumimnated FFP, Sniper's Hide MP8 dot A5 reticle, or some close modification thereof. Such is unencumbered by copyright or patent.

Built and backed by you know who...price I have no idea..

Have I gone completely off my rocker??


Scott

 

USMCj

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Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

I dont get it, are you thinking of a SH edition USO? or what?
 

pell1203

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    Sure sounds like he's barking up that tree don't it!
     

    USMCj

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    If so then how is that taking the IOR to the next level? wouldnt that be kicking the IOR to the curb?

    Scott, are you typing drunk again? LOL
    wink.gif
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Scott, are you typing drunk again? LOL
    wink.gif
    </div></div>

    No, I'm stone cold sober. But, it's been quite the grind for a Sunday so I might be a bit loopy hee hee

    Just askin' fellas. Always trying to find the best scope solutions for you guys. If the idea crashes and burns, that's what it does.
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    We have several IOR scopes that do as well as any brand out there. But the 3-18 FFP is not one of them. That's just a fact.

    So, I'm wondering is this is a possible answer.


    Scott
     

    USMCj

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    Scott, the #1 thing that drew people to the IOR was the price, so If you can get USO to build a scope with the same features for the same price, then by all means, but if the price is going to be the same as any other USO, then the only difference is going to be the reticle. And most people that use a mil/mil USO love the GAP ret.

    So again, Im not sure where this is going, respectfully.
     

    glock24

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Scott, the #1 thing that drew people to the IOR was the price . . .
    </div></div>

    I have to agree with this comment above, Scott. The fact remains that the only thing filling the price gap between the $400 Falcon Menace and the $2000+ <span style="font-style: italic">everybody else</span> is the 3-18x IOR. Solve the problems you identified in your first post while keeping the cost the same, and you have a winner.

    What are the chances of getting one of IOR's 4-14x scopes spec'ed out like the 3-18x? It would solve the two of the physical dimension problems with the 3-18x, and it seems like the shortest path to success.

     

    lanwickum

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    I would say a definite no to the SN-3 thing above. USO is custom, big thing that sets them apart. If a speced out version is made a few will sell at first then dead in the water.
    I agree with glock24. The 4-14x maybe an excellent answer. The physical setback of the 3-18x are it's biggest setback dealing with eye relief. 4-14x is plenty of power for past 1000yards in this game.
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    OK guys, good morning. I slept a little on it and decided to change the thread title and approach. But I admit I kind of completely forgot about price in the equation. Go figure.
     

    dc45

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...taking the IOR 3-18x42 SH FFP tp the next level.....

    The scopes features, optics, reticle, and design seem to have been a real winner in retrospect, but there seem to be three issues that need to be dealt with:

    1) Too short of eye relief
    2) Too short of a rear ring mounting surface
    3) For one out of every ten of you, poor build quality (failure of the scope), and for the rest, the possibility that the perecentage of failures might grow.

    So, what could we do to take and excellent scope design, and an excellent FFP reticle (designed with heavy input from the members here), and make it WORK for you, the shooters?


    </div></div>

    Scott,

    I would add the extreme difficulty in getting anything other than warranty repairs made to IOR scopes as another killer disadvantage. As you are well aware, IOR Valdada doesn't repair anything. So guys with a damaged scope are screwed unless they want to try to send it back to Romania themselves.

    To your wish list I would add a zero stop as a 'must have' item. And personally, I would much rather see a 34mm tube since I already have several sets of 34mm rings...

    Cheers,

    DC
     

    J.Boyette

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Scott,

    I think you are on a great idea here.

    If you would send me a PM and we can talk about some ideas I have for a project like this.

    John
     

    Ratbert

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    I've been thinking about building something like that myself.
    I'd rather have 34mm rather than 35mm though. Lots more mounting options out there for 34mm.

    What I'd love to see is put together a pool to have USO develop a Gen II style reticle with the center setup like the SH Mp-8 A5 with the aiming dot and all that.

    Is this something where ordering the pre-spec'd no-options version is going to be cheaper than just calling USO and getting something custom spec'd?
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Price was the driving factor, but I do think it would be nice if USO could get the modified MP8 as that was a great reticle.

    However right after the SH IOR came out, IOR's prices went up to where their top line scopes are damn near a plain jane SN3 build. An SN3 with the ERGO obj, 30mm tube, M3 turrets no illum is an more apples to apples comparison with the SH IOR and has a build retail of $1835+reticle).
    I don't think a 30mm SN3 gives up any elevation adjustment to the SH IOR....
     

    buffybuster

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    Re: Taking the IOR 3-18x42 FFP "to the next level"

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LibertyOptics</div><div class="ubbcode-body">OK guys, good morning. I slept a little on it and decided to change the thread title and approach. But I admit I kind of completely forgot about price in the equation. Go figure. </div></div>

    Pardon the thread drift; will the new Vortex Tactical scopes coming out fill this price/performance void? The Vortex people seem to be fairly responsive to this market, perhaps they would do a custom reticle. Durability is yet unknown but they have a good track record with the Vipers.
     

    mavrick10_2000

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Scott,

    I like the idea, as well as the Idea of the IOR 4-14 design mentioned by a few members. As already mentioned the USO price point will be the key issue for many. If it could be worked out I think it would be fantastic.
     

    BobinNC

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Scott,

    In looking at the scope lines you sell; and thinking about the features most shooters desire; and the issues you outlined in your original post; one thing sticks out:

    You already market the right scope, at the right price: Bushnell 6500 2.5-16x42 T @ $609 w/80 MOA of adjustments and 4" eye relief. What Bushnell is lacking is FFP and Mil adjustments.

    You cannot fix IOR's lack of quality or lack of US repair facilities. You cannot lower USO's prices. Maybe Bushnell will say no way. But the 6500 is the right platform; Bushnell does warranty their scopes; and can fix them. It is always easier to upgrade a scope line, than reinvent the wheel.

    What can it hurt to ask Bushnell????

    Thanks for your efforts,

    Bob



     

    gugubica

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    I like the idea of a "Libery" model USO. It would be interesting to get in touch with John and see if he can do a price break on X number of identically configures units for you.

    That said, the mp8 dot is a great reticle, but the GAP mil is awesome too, perhaps a GAP mil with a center dot?

    Really, I would lose any conparison to the IOR. It will be a USO designed to your specs.

    All in all, depending on reticle/price, I would definitely be in for one.

    One BIG advantage is that if you give them enough lead time, you could have the Libery USO in stock (no waiting for months)!

    For your reference, below is what I would buy in a heartbeat:

    SN-3
    ERGO or T-Pal, could go either way, not a huge deal
    44mm Obj.
    EREK 0.1 mil
    Green or maybe a brown anodizing (that'd be cool)
    illum. reticle (as described above or a GAP mil).
    ARD
    Caps
     

    bcw1284

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    If you were gonna go colored anodizing, i'd do green. The FDE seems to turn out pretty "gold" colored, IMHO. Although maybe USO has found away around that, but speaking from experience with leupolds, I really don't like that color finish. All the green USO's i've seen have looked great. Were I to order a USO, it would be green. Perhaps a darker/browner color than tan/FDE would eliminate the gold hue? Hopefully the USO folks will chime in here and clarify?

    of course, you can always do plain black, or cerakote, or whatever.


    Having been recently plunged into the mil/mil world, I can't go back to mis-match now. The Gap Mil or another Mil reticle would be a must for me. The Horus reticle is very nice, but would likely add too much to the price. maybe come up with a similar but different MIL grid that isn't under their patent? Illuminated is great, but not a must for me. others may disagree.

    My favorite knobs: Mil EREK & Mil windage with m40 scallops

    I like the t-pal idea for barrel clearance, but the ERGO is less crap to break (not that you could break one anyway). The parallax and illumination knobs look like they are really a tight fit, so for me it would be one or the other. I don't want to spend thousands on a scope that is a bitch to adjust.

    ARD would be nice to have, but people could order those on their own as long as it is a standard USO item.


    there is my 2 cents and then some, lol.
     

    lanwickum

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    I just had the above scope for sale, granted it was used. Did not sale for a week until I dropped it to $2000. $2125 with badger rings. What price do you need the mentioned scope to be at to "buy in a heartbeat"
    Not bashing you here, just getting a reality check.

    If it were X price I WOULD buy it considering it a great deal. What is X?

    I ask this because price is a big factor in making the IOR sh edition an excellent deal IMO. This is when I bought mine at $1300 or something when they first came out. I don't know what they are now.
     

    Ratbert

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: montana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    I ask this because price is a big factor in making the IOR sh edition an excellent deal IMO. This is when I bought mine at $1300 or something when they first came out. I don't know what they are now.

    </div></div>

    That's exactly why I bought mine to. @ $1300 the IOR was a great value for someone who didn't want to shell out USO prices because there really wasn't any other option at that price point. At the $2k+ price point there's very little stopping me from just calling up John and getting exactly what I want.
     

    gugubica

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: montana</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just had the above scope for sale, granted it was used. Did not sale for a week until I dropped it to $2000. $2125 with badger rings. What price do you need the mentioned scope to be at to "buy in a heartbeat" </div></div>

    That would be about the price point I personally would jump on (for an ERGO). I think that Scott could be on to something if someone could save a few hundred bucks. I was bumbed that yours sold, if it would have lasted another week, it would have been mine (funds)!

    Basically he would have to do a few things to make this work:

    -Be 2 to 3 hundred less than a comparable scope directly from USO.
    -Have them on hand, i.e. no wait (this would be huge).
    -Have the setup that is most commonly desired (you are losing the "custom" but are still getting one hell of a scope), but lets be honest, a lot of people go for the same setup.
    -A proprietary reticle would be a selling point too, assuming he came up with one that was an advancement.
     

    mattmcg

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Scott,

    I'll give you my $.02. I like the idea. I think USO is a top notch company that offers a superior product in many regards (I often choose between S&B and USO) and I think a Sniper's Hide scope should reflect the quality and caliber of shooters on this forum. The IOR Valdada, while a respectable scope in many regards, just didn't live up to the expectations and performance of many on this board.

    So I say go for it. I've got a reticle design that I'd be happy to contribute if you run into issues using the MP-8.

    M
     

    Niles Coyote

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Scott,

    I can see you giving Nightforce a run for there money if we could get a standardized USO in the same ball park as NF's second focals. I would much rather have a FFP but the current price tag is holding me back.
     

    mattmcg

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Oh, and BTW......

    Prefer 34mm over 35mm tube. Zero Stop is also a must as others have said.

    The benefit of a Hide spec'd version would be production levels of the same scope allowing a substantial discount with USO quality. Otherwise it doesn't make sense as others have also mentioned.

    Meet the above items and I'm on board!
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Hiders,


    Awesome feedback to date. Just like always.

    When USO asks "Scott. what would you like?", my reply is "what do the members of the Hide want?"

    I've heard feedback on both sides and we'll keep this conversation going to see if something big will happen.

    John Boyette, left you messages at both numbers.

    Scott
     

    USMCj

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Scott, have you even begun talks with USO about this?
     

    Ratbert

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Zero Stop is also a must as others have said.
    </div></div>

    People keep saying that but just keep in mind this is still a USO we're talking about here. They aren't designing new mechanics just for this scope. The EREK (which he's specified) can be kludged into a sort of zero-stop, beyond that it's really not an option (as a practical matter) with USOs.
     

    Guns4570

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Ratbert is spot on.....USO isn't going to redesign a world class optic because 5 guys on the HIDE say it's a must have. I wouldn't mind seeing one....but lets be real here, most of the guys here that toss in there 2 cents never buy what ever they want anyway.

    Scott a Liberty USO would be very interesting to say the least. If you could get the features mostly discussed it would be a killer optic. I would love to see the modified MP8 reticle and perhaps something like a Horusvision/Gen 2 XR reticle but changed so you can see it across the power range of the scope like J. Boyette did on the MP8 version we spec'd out here on the Hide.
     

    greentimber

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    What drew me to the IOR SH 3-18 were the following features:

    1. Magnification Range - a bottom end of 2x-4x and a top end of 15x-18x seems about perfect to me, even for 2K yards. The 3-18 has it.

    2. 1/10MIL adjustments with the big ass elevation knob. The 3-18 has it.

    3. FFP. The 3-18 has it.

    4. Side Focus. The 3-18 has it.

    5. Most importantly - the reticle. I LOVE the visibility of the coarse SH reticle with the center dot. Hands down my favorite reticle of all I've used. Obviously, the 3-18 has it.

    6. Price was also an issue.

    The only feature I really wanted, but didn't get was the illuminated reticle.



    I would also strongly prefer 34mm, but I have ulterior motives there.
    wink.gif




    Since we're talking USO, I LOVE my SN-3. It has been a completely solid performer for me. In less time than I've had my SN-3 I've broken two of the SH IOR scopes. I think your idea has merit, but for the IOR SH customer, price is definitely going to make a difference.


    I have also used the Bushnell Elite 6500. It needs updated features as has been mentioned and I suspect sooner or later we'll see them become available (surely?). However, the focus mechanism on that scope could use some improvements in order to compete with a USO or even the IOR SH (Talking specifically about the performance of the focus mechanism only when I say that).

    The 6500 certainly <span style="font-style: italic">could</span> be the basis for a solution for those who require a lower price point. It just needs a few refinements, too.

    All in all, USO is probably the most likely candidate for what you're trying to do.


    Kyle


     

    crumpmd

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    The ideal scope is varible power, 3 to 17 is a great range, up to 21 or 22 but no higher. FFP is a must. Eye relief to avoid contact with the scope with high recoil or magnum rifles.
    Tube size. I don't have a 34mm. Does it have an advantage over the 30mm except at very long range? I have 2 USO with 30mm tube and use them on bright moonlit nights with no problem.
    Neither are t-pal. Is that parallax system better? More robust or more convenient?
    The EREK is great and I have one. Zero stop of course is a matter of initial setup with it.
    Definitely illuminated.
    I don't know about the Sniper's Hide MP8 dot A5 reticle, what about the MPR?
     

    Natep

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    I would definitely be interested! The MilGap and the MP8 look so close why not just use that one? Might save some cost if they dont have to do something different? Have you started a list of interested parties? If so i want to be notified if this comes to fruition.
     

    steve123

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Hey Scott,

    It's the old,"price point dilemma".

    We need that in between price but with USO quality and warranty.Yes,if I could get a USO with all those features for $1500 or so,I'd be extremely tempted to buy one.Fantasy,maybe.I don't know?I do know that there would be a bunch of used scopes for cheap in the optics for sale section,once the word got out.

    If it were possible.I'd like a modified hybrid,Horus Vision mil type reticle design with numbered hack marks.That's probably encroaching on HV patents though,just a thought?I love my HV reticles to use with holdovers but I want to use G7 ballistics instead of G1.The G1 used in HV's program,IMO is dated and isn't quite "on" for the longer ranges.Also I hate the"1 year only warranty" on the Horus scopes.

    Seems like I can't ever have my cake and eat it too.

    Steve
     

    offroadr1

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hey Scott,

    It's the old,"price point dilemma".

    We need that in between price but with USO quality and warranty.Yes,if I could get a USO with all those features for $1500 or so,I'd be extremely tempted to buy one.Fantasy,maybe.I don't know?I do know that there would be a bunch of used scopes for cheap in the optics for sale section,once the word got out.

    If it were possible.I'd like a modified hybrid,Horus Vision mil type reticle design with numbered hack marks.That's probably encroaching on HV patents though,just a thought?I love my HV reticles to use with holdovers but I want to use G7 ballistics instead of G1.The G1 used in HV's program,IMO is dated and isn't quite "on" for the longer ranges.Also I hate the"1 year only warranty" on the Horus scopes.

    Seems like I can't ever have my cake and eat it too.

    Steve</div></div>

    ditto
     

    mattmcg

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Zero Stop is also a must as others have said.
    </div></div>

    People keep saying that but just keep in mind this is still a USO we're talking about here. They aren't designing new mechanics just for this scope. The EREK (which he's specified) can be kludged into a sort of zero-stop, beyond that it's really not an option (as a practical matter) with USOs.

    </div></div>

    Ratbert, let me clarify and disagree with you here. I think most folks are technically referring to the windage stop, which has been available on the SN3 for some time.

    Now that said, all companies need to institute a process of continuous innovation. If customers want an elevation windage stop and the competition is beginning to include that in their offerings, then USO had better look at including it as well.

    Innovate or die. Just look at GM's current status as a perfect example of what happens when you rest on your laurels....
     

    doc76251

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Proper application of the EREK knob will net you the same results with the additional bonus of being able to reposition the erector to provide you with significantly increased amounts of elevation travel.

    In addition you don't have to worry about stripping out a thin brass disk in case you get a bit excited and wrench on the knob a bit too much.

    Knowledge and application is a desirable goal. I'm not seeing a down side to this.

    Cheers,

    Doc
     

    Falar

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    Mar 28, 2009
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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Before I ordered my SN-3 in May, the only other scope I really looked at was your SH 3-18 FFP. I thought the reticle was great, but IORs known issues and lack of illumination steered me away. Your USO build sounds great, I definitely would buy one.
     

    jeffersonv

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    Are we talking about the Vortex tactical again?
     

    Ratbert

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hazardus</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Zero Stop is also a must as others have said.
    </div></div>

    People keep saying that but just keep in mind this is still a USO we're talking about here. They aren't designing new mechanics just for this scope. The EREK (which he's specified) can be kludged into a sort of zero-stop, beyond that it's really not an option (as a practical matter) with USOs.

    </div></div>

    Ratbert, let me clarify and disagree with you here. I think most folks are technically referring to the windage stop, which has been available on the SN3 for some time.

    Now that said, all companies need to institute a process of continuous innovation. If customers want an elevation windage stop and the competition is beginning to include that in their offerings, then USO had better look at including it as well.

    </div></div>

    I would be surprised to learn that many people consider the windage stop a "must have," but it wouldn't be the first time. I'd want to take a survey to find out how many were referring to elevation and how many to windage. Regardless, it (the windage stop) is a pricey option for what, to me, seems a feature of dubious need on a turret already offering over 5 Mils of correctly labeled windage. One aspect of the SH IOR was it's value. I'd assumed anything "born on the idea of" would also put a premium on value for the dollar. This would mean eschewing such things as the windage stop, TPAL, and illumination (though an illum capable body would be a nice way to make it flexible, I suppose.) For that matter, having owned several EREK's, beyond the cool form factor I really don't see how it is all that much more desirable than the considerably cheaper Mk3 knobs which provide an additional Mil and a half of elevation per revolution.

    A value proposition would also imply that we're not going to be asking USO to develop all new technical designs and production to support this scope. Cutting edge and value are NOT good bed fellows. However if you throw value and current availability out the windows, I'd love to see an SN-3 2 inches shorter, 8 oz lighter, tritium illuminated, with a dual-plane reticle.

    Basically, the way I see this conversation is: "If Scott were to pony up the dough to have an MP8A5 (or other unique) reticle made up for USO's, available for order through him, how many folks would actually open their wallets?"

    Beyond that we're all just having fun listing our favorite USO options.
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NatepNG</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The MilGap and the MP8 look so close </div></div>

    How's the old song go, "so close, so close, but yet so far"............

    The MP8A5 is a unique animal, and a very good reticle. The GAP mil is a very good mil reticle as well. Personally I think the MPR mil reticle is the schnizzle.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">SN3-1700

    Base price $1920
    No options selected.
    ERGO - Standard Option
    44mm Low Profile - Standard Option
    U.S. #3 1/10 MIL - 45.00
    U.S. #1 1/10 MIL - Standard Option
    30mm - Standard Option
    No Color selected.
    Mil-Scale MPR - 86.00
    No Reticle Lighting selected.
    Lo Profile Housing - Standard Option
    Rapid Focus - Standard Option

    $2051

    </div></div>

    Put that in a "illuminate me later" tube and you only have $131 over the base price at full retail.
    I'm with Rafael, the M3 turrets would be a better value. However, nothing screams "USO!" like an EREK.
     

    USMCj

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    A USO without EREK is like a hot blonde with giant cans, but no nipples.

    Its just not right.
     

    LoneWolfUSMC

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: USMCj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A USO without EREK is like a hot blonde with giant cans, but no nipples.

    Its just not right. </div></div>

    That is some funny shit!
     

    Luvman

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    I think the 3-whatever power high end FFP scope market is covered well.

    The 1-4x market is saturated too. I wonder how an a 1.5-6x "Liberty USO" that was on the shelf at a better than current retail price would do.
     

    doc76251

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Luvman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the 3-whatever power high end FFP scope market is covered well.

    The 1-4x market is saturated too. I wonder how an a 1.5-6x "Liberty USO" that was on the shelf at a better than current retail price would do. </div></div>

    For you there is something in the pot from a different venu which may prove to be earth shattering in the CQB world.

    For Scott he will have to decide what road he wishes to travel.

    Cheers,

    Doc
     

    LibertyOptics

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    Jan 20, 2004
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    www.libertyoptics.com
    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ratbert</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Basically, the way I see this conversation is: "If Scott were to pony up the dough to have an MP8A5 (or other unique) reticle made up for USO's, available for order through him, how many folks would actually open their wallets?"
    </div></div>

    Hard to argue with that logic. No BS here.

    I'm open to ant suggestion to making a scope from USO that you guys really want.

    As it were, making an SN-3 with the aforementioned specs under $2000 would be a chore.... but for many, a USO scope offers a comfort level that other brands can't match.

    Scott
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    For you there is something in the pot from a different venu which may prove to be earth shattering in the CQB world.

    </div></div>

    you big tease...
     

    doc76251

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    Re: A "Liberty USO", born on the idea of ,,,

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sobrbiker883</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: doc76251</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    For you there is something in the pot from a different venu which may prove to be earth shattering in the CQB world.

    </div></div>

    you big tease... </div></div>

    Where is that smiley with the tongue hanging out..... or better yet Bill the Cat. Pppttttthhhhhbbbbtttttt
    laugh.gif


    Cheers,

    Doc