A lower is a lower

[Boomstick308]

This is what I constantly keep hearing. So my question to you guys is, Is that true?

If what I keep hearing is true, that very few companies forge them and different logos are engraved on them, then I can see the validity in the statement as the manufacturing process from one to the next would be the same.

A local shop has got some Del-Ton DTI lowers for $85.
Rifle Gear has Mega and Spikes for $99, but going there to get them would be much more of a hassle.

Assuming quality parts go into the rest of the build, would I be fine going with the DTI lower?

 

[rescueswimmer]

Re: A lower is a lower

The forgings may come from certain places but I can tell you the finish on some of the lowers I have seen have been pretty shitty. I have a spikes lower and It looks good no better than my RRA or Colt. Hope this helps.

 

[buggsb]

Re: A lower is a lower

There are a couple caveats here; 1) There are a couple of houses forging unfinished lowers for most of the manufacturers out there. It should come from one of these. Stay away from cast lowers!; 2) It needs to be machined by a reputable shop who has the tooling and quality control expertise to assure the lowers are machined to mil-spec dimensions and tolerances. I have seen out of spec lowers which don't go together well. and 3) The finish should be Type III hard coat anodize per Mil-spec. I have seen lowers anodized in Type II or painted.

I don't have personal experience with DTI, but I would guess any of the 3 you mentioned should be roughly equivalent.

If you find lowers at a price "too good to be true", it probably is.

 

[Lobbinlead]

Re: A lower is a lower

Well crap.
What price range would you call to good to be true?

I just picked up a lower from a local shop. I was going to get him to order one from Spikes but he said he was still waiting on some older shipments. I figured if I went ahead and bought a lower I would have no excuse not to build one I have been picking up parts for. I am not looking at it right now but I think it was LRB arms. I could be wrong. Think it was made in CT or NY

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: A lower is a lower

and when they are out of spec, then its "a lower ISNT a lower!"

 

[ORD]

Re: A lower is a lower

As long as you are comparing mil-spec lowers with other mil-spec lowers, forged/forged and billet/billet, same/similar finishes, then it pretty much comes down to picking a roll mark that you prefer and pulling the trigger (pun intended).

The DTI lowers I have seen have all been GTG. They are built to spec, the finish is good, and the fit (as with any lower/AR-15 build) will vary depending on the upper you mate with it.

 

[RuLins05]

Re: A lower is a lower

All the DTI lower's I've seen/built have been gtg. AimSurplus has Spike's lower for under $80 with free shipping though.

 

[NoName2010]

Re: A lower is a lower

A lower is not a lower, is not lower. Yes, there is a limited number of forging houses, BUT the machining and finishing is everything.

Take the time to drive down to Riflegear, and look at the lowers that they offer for sale. After comparing about six different brands/models, I went with a JD Machining Lower for $99. Excellent quality machining and finishing, AND I like the wider/deeper magazine bevel (largest/widest I saw).

You won't save any money buying a cheaper lower from out of state, because you are still going to have to pay a local FFL to receive it for you and do the DROS paperwork.

Same thing with LPKs, they are not all the same, but many companies use some of the same parets in their kits (nobody actually makes all of their own parts).

The LPK/Build Kits that I like right now are the ones from Palmetto State Armory (PSA). Parts are excellent quality, and you can get a MOE Lower Build Kit for $125 with a MOE buttstock, pistol grip, trigger guard, and PSA LPK. Order the right part number and for about $20 more you can get the MOE Handguard.

PSA just got 16" M4 type flattop uppers back in stock for $399 with a mil-spec BCG.

 

[MidwestPX]

Re: A lower is a lower

With lowers, you get what you pay for to a point. From a machining standpoint, you want an in-spec lower. I've seen some small name lowers have critical parts out of spec such as the holes for the takedown and pivot pins, the pistol grip screw hole, the magazine catch being too low or high to properly work with PMAGs, and magwells with not enough material removed so PMAGs won't drop free (tolerance stackup). Then there's the minutiae like proper anodizing. Type 3 milspec anodizing will penetrate the material as well as add a few thousandths on top of the aluminum. This results in a finish that is very durable. I have noticed many cheaper lowers experience relatively easy flaking, especially around the the FCG holes because the lower was not properly anodized.

When I visited Mega Arms (I'm a master dealer for them), I was given a tour of the shop and was surprised by the attention to detail that they give to their work. For instance, when a forged lower was being re-fixtured to machine the second side, the operator would hand de-burr the edges to be machined to ensure proper material removal. It's these little things that add up and set brands like Mega apart.

 

[bowslngr]

Re: A lower is a lower

Pretty much all the lowers from recognizable, reputable manufactureres are about the same. Go with the roll mark that suits you.
Don't fall into the trap of thinking that buying a billet lower is worth any added expense. It isn't.

 

[Boomstick308]

Re: A lower is a lower

Based on what I've read here and at other places, as well as talking to shop owners I think I'm going to go with the Mega. I've heard a very similar story to what you are saying MidwestPX. Thanks.

 

[BERTMAN77MK2]

Re: A lower is a lower

RR, DD, or Mega are greAT

 

[Lobbinlead]

Re: A lower is a lower

I am super pleased with the LRB arms lower I bought to finish out my collections of parts. The mill work is excellent. Exterior looks flawless and smooth. The only visible seam or tool marking is above the grip and it has been laid off very smooth to the touch. My Rock upper fit perfectly on it. Only issue I had was the anodize is about two shades darker than the upper but that upper has been wrapped in a piece of newspaper in my closet for a couple years. Bought a second for the wife's toy and was the same quality on all the milling. Same color difference as well on the upper to lower anodizing.

Now I have number three sitting in the bottom draw in my gun cabinet. Don't really need it yet but since they are locally available right this second I figure a spare can't hurt especially at $80 out the door price and a 15 minute ride from the house.

 

[Tactical_Tom]

Re: A lower is a lower

C3 Defense is selling out its old billet lowers on gun broker for $89 less the half price.

 

[tullius]

Re: A lower is a lower

DTI lowers are excellent. So are MMS.

 

[Neo]

Re: A lower is a lower

JD Machine gets a +1 from me I have a set from the first Sniper's Hide group buy and can't say enough about them . PM Big Joe on here he can set you up.

 

[slothlacrosse]

Re: A lower is a lower

avoid superior arms like the plague.

1st lower had the front takedown pin detent drilled too high.

2nd lower had the pistol grip screw drilled too far back

3rd lower was the way it should be

 

[RTH1800]

Re: A lower is a lower

What no one has ask is the intended purpose of the finished product. IME, most AR owners are satisfied if the damn thing goes bang, bang, in which case a lower is a lower. They will tell you it "shoots well". When questioned about 5 and 10 shot groups at 600 yards or even 100, most will admit not having shot any target with it. WTF, a guy like that is very easy to please.
RTH

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: A lower is a lower

A few years ago I heard it from a reputable source that RRA's and another brand were basically contracted out and built in the same place.

whether true or not I'm not sure.

HOWEVER I have seen some crappy lowers, I forget the one "New" brand but the finish on it sucked.

Girlfriend bought a billeted Mega and she's quite pleased, rifle went together and is snug.

I have an Ameetec Arms - same thing - nice finish, good fit...


But lowers are not lowers.

Fords are not Chevy's and they are not Toyota's

 

[Zanshin]

Re: A lower is a lower

Assuming the lower is in spec, from a fit and finish standpoint lowers can vary, but from an accuracy standpoint it doesn't matter. Quality cheap lowers are easy to come by. Don't pay extra money for a billet lower unless you like the way it looks and are okay knowing that you are just paying for looks. Maybe an ambi lower is worth paying extra for if you have the need for it. I personally don't.

I have a few LRB lowers. They are good to go. LRB is a well known maker of M14 clones, but they do sell stripped AR uppers and lowers as well. Alot of us on Long Island use them because they are local and you can walk into the shop and pick up a few and oogle the M14 porn they have in the works.

http://www.lrbarms.com

 

[Grimm]

Re: A lower is a lower

A lot Of what goes into a lower is personal preference. As long as they are machined to spec even the finish is negotiable in this day and age if you are starting a full build and intend on duracoting or similar. Most of what you'll probably pay for is the name, which can be totally worth it for a guarantee of quality or CS, and cosmetics. Do you want standard safe semi, hk selector pictures, an engraving of a chick with three tits on the mag well? I saw some guys lower last month that said "safe, zombie" classic.

 

[KM375]

Re: A lower is a lower

<span style="font-weight: bold">Lewis Machine & Tool</span>
LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett
<span style="font-weight: bold">Continental Machine Tool</span>
Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century (New)
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt
<span style="font-weight: bold">LAR Manufacturing</span>
LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical
<span style="font-weight: bold">JVP</span>
Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly
<span style="font-weight: bold">Mega Machine Shop</span>
Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms
<span style="font-weight: bold">Olympic</span>
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)
<span style="font-weight: bold">Sun Devil</span>
Sun Devil forged billet receivers
<span style="font-weight: bold">Superior</span>
Superior Arms
Lauer (New)

Aero Precision
Aero Precision

-------------------------------------
The above list contains the machine companies that machine the raw forgings into usable receivers. Each individual company applies their own finishing standards.

Not sure if this list is still accurate, but its what google pulls up...

 

[Cegorach]

Re: A lower is a lower

I have an Armalite lower that I am perfectly happy with. It is basic but everything has fit on top of it well, it hasn't had any magazine trouble, is well finished, and even has what I consider to be an attractive roll mark.

It plain works and that is all I require.

 

[.308mk4]

Re: A lower is a lower

LRB is good stuff. If you know a dealer that won't poo poo on you with dealer fees , try this http://www.wideners.com/itemview.cfm?dir=700|863

 

[turbomilton]

Re: A lower is a lower

I see that you are up in LA and if you have the ability to come down to San Diego, JD machine is a great place. You can walk right in and check out their manufacturing and they will match you a upper and lower and can even give you a full build. the can do the dros right there. Thats where i am going next month for my next build

 

[MidwestPX]

Re: A lower is a lower

I think that list is a bit old as I know Seekins provides the Spike's billet lower and I believe Aero does their forged one.

 

[WRM]

Re: A lower is a lower

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MidwestPX</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that list is a bit old as I know Seekins provides the Spike's billet lower and I believe Aero does their forged one. </div></div>

Yep, and I know for a fact (because I saw them being machined) that the manufacturer for RRA lowers just a few years ago was NOT Continental....

Bill

 

[eli polite]

Re: A lower is a lower

I have several R guns lowers and several Delaware lowers that are sold on line at R guns I paid $65 each and all of them have a god finish on them. There were no problems fitting the parts in. i have different uppers on 3 of them one is a Viltor it is an excellent fit with no wobble what so ever. One of them has a spikes and again great fit no wobble what so ever i did have to do a little file work on the back pin hole. I i just filed a small bevel on ether side and it fit perfect. the other is a cheep upper there is a slight wobble in that one but it shoots very well and i am more than sure it is the upper in that case and not the lower..

my question has always been why does an ar10 lower cost $100 more than an ar15.?

 

[pwc001]

Re: A lower is a lower

PSA had lowers for $50, as a Fathers Day special, they said they sold over 2000 lowers, I thought It was a hell of a deal.

 

[BCP]

Re: A lower is a lower

A lower is a lower is a lower imo.

I use Aero Precision whenever I can. They are cheap-cheap (205 out the door for 3 with fees from my FFL) and have never had a bad one.

 

[steelcomp]

Re: A lower is a lower

I know the Aero Armalaite style AR10 lowers are excellent, so I;d imagine the AR15 lowers follow suit. I'm also a fan of Tactical Machine. I have a couple of their 80% lowers and the work done on them up to that point is spot on, and I always hear good things about their finished products. I also really like CMMG's products. I've been in and out of production machining as a machinist for over 30yrs and have <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> experience to draw from. I've built some Spikes and some Stags and they also seemed GTG. For any brand there's always going to be that one or two that slip on the fixture or sit on a burr and get through QC.