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Sidearms & Scatterguns ? about a Kimber 1911

Blackhawk95

Blackhawk95

Sergeant of the Hide
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Apr 19, 2008
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#1
I was at the gunshop this afternoon and noticed they had a Kimber Grand Raptor marked down several hundred dollars from what have seen it for before.

And my question is, Is the Kimber a series 70 or 80?

And, I have really wanted the Springfield TRP but noticed The Kimber. I can get the Kimber for around $400 less. should i wait for the TRP? or get the Raptor?

Thanks
Jerid
 
#5
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

I hear some stories about kimber's QC with their handguns just as i have their rifles. Some people have good experiences some have bad. IDK for 400$ less yeah i'd take the kimber and if it turns out to be a lemon send it to Bills custom automatics (shelby, MS).
 
#6
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

Im going to have to go look at it again as i cant remember if it was the Grand raptor or the raptor 2. as there is quite a price difference.

But, are they series 70 or 80? Reason i ask is i preferr the 70.
 
#7
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

Kimber has never made a "series 80." Some have had an alternative safety system that is activated by the grip safety, but Kimber has never used the system that Colt calls series 80.
 
#10
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

Series 80 is a Colt firing pin system while the Kimber uses a Schwartz system on the grip safety. There are promoters and detractors for both systems. A google of series 80 vs Schwartz will give you all you need to know about firing pin vs grip drop safeties. The Raptor is a series II gun that does have an extra drop safety. The Raptors are beautiful pistols but count me in the Springer camp between those two. The TRP is an very good factory 1911.
 
#12
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

Well, after doing some reasearch on the Schwartz system. I think Im going to pass on the Kimber.

And after some looking around the S&W E series 1911 looks intersting. So, I guess Ill try and get a look at one and see how it feels.

thanks for the help.

Jerid
 
#15
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

That's a question only you can really answer. Do you want it "blued n purrty" or "tacti-cool"? To me they are two different sidearms. Between a S.A. and a Kimber I'd choose the S.A. But I want my sidearms that I carry to be a tool first, look good second.

If this is just a plinking gun, then get the best value for your money.

Best of luck!

-G45
 
#16
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Series 80 is a Colt firing pin system while the Kimber uses a Schwartz system on the grip safety. There are promoters and detractors for both systems. A google of series 80 vs Schwartz will give you all you need to know about firing pin vs grip drop safeties. The Raptor is a series II gun that does have an extra drop safety. The Raptors are beautiful pistols but count me in the Springer camp between those two. The TRP is an very good factory 1911.
</div></div>

Here's your answer. I am also in the Springfield camp. Kimbers shoot great, but I prefer the Springfield because it was the way JMB intended.

The Smith guns are nice too, but they have their own differences as well.
 
#17
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackhawk95</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, after doing some reasearch on the Schwartz system. I think Im going to pass on the Kimber.

And after some looking around the S&W E series 1911 looks intersting. So, I guess Ill try and get a look at one and see how it feels.

thanks for the help.

Jerid </div></div>

I'd stay away from the Smith. They use an external extractor, not the John Browning designed Internal extractor. Sig and Ruger may have figured it out, but Smith has not. I've seen many reports of FTE's because of this. Granted, they've got a great warranty, but for the price???!!

Go to Dan Wesson for a $1000 and up 1911! Until you get to $1500-$1700, then look at Les Baer.....
 
#19
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can also look at new Kimbers that don't have the II on the slide. Those are made without the Swartz safety. The Desert Warrior comes to mind, but there are others.... </div></div>

They still have the same shitty quality control; I would look elsewhere.

And my first and still favorite 1911 is a series I Kimber.

Kimber made an amazing gun in the 1990s. The new ones are complete trash.
 
#20
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

I looked into it too. The Kimber system seems dumb to me. IE don't fully depress grip safety and firing pin may be blocked as the hammer falls.

You can remove the rear sight apparently and the components come out. Then you're probably advised to get a titanium firing pin for similar drop safety.
 
#21
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can also look at new Kimbers that don't have the II on the slide. Those are made without the Swartz safety. The Desert Warrior comes to mind, but there are others.... </div></div>

They still have the same shitty quality control; I would look elsewhere.

And my first and still favorite 1911 is a series I Kimber.

Kimber made an amazing gun in the 1990s. The new ones are complete trash. </div></div>

Even though I don't own a Series II Kimber, I helped my brother-in-law break in his new Eclipse Custom II. At 125 rounds the 1st round would FTF, kinda hang up right before chambering. But after 200 rounds, everything smoothed out and was 100% after that. Was a great looking piece, and I would almost trust my family to it......if it didn't have a II on the slide....

They do make more 1911's than Colt+Springfield+WC+LB+a few other all combined. So if 10% of Kimbers fail compared to 10% of X-Brand maker, by sheer numbers you will mostly only hear of Kimbers going down. (not saying 10% fail)

And I've had to change parts on my Series I Kimbers. Compact Stainless had to drop in a Wilson Combat extractor, fit couldn't be any more exact. Classic Custom needed a Wilson Combat slide stop and new springs. But my Compact Custom is still running 100%....
 
#22
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

I tried to remove my series II safety today. No luck.

couple observations.

The meprolite sights are FREAKING NEAR welded to the slide.

The aluminum frame on my CDP II is moly coated and should be hard anodized.

The ambi safety was a pain in the ass to remove. I replaced it with a Kimber single side safety. The part was a drop in. No modification required. I micd the part. The critical surfaces were about .003" different between the one I removed and the one I installed. Pretty cool (drop in safety).

I swapped out my spring and found that the new Kimber CDP Pro kit recoil spring had 4 more coils than the one I removed from the gun. Maybe it's a new spec or the guy I bought from had the wrong spring in it?

The hammer spring (mainspring in MSH) is super heavy like 24 lbs? or better- I didn't swap it out, figuring it was heavier than I wanted it to be anyway.

The trigger on my gun was a little heavy. I tweaked the spring till it pulled about 3.75 pounds, polished a few surfaces like the spring where it hits the disconnector, adjusted the trigger overtravel, and installed oversize hammer and sear pins from Cylinder and slide. They fit nice and snug and the trigger really feels good.

The barrel fit in my CDP Pro is phenomenal. Play free.

I still want to remove the series II safety, but will have to get a sight tool for the 1911 to push the sight out. I ordered a titanium pin to replace the OEM pin.

I switched mags to Wilson #47DC's the kimber mag had a burr on the follower to the extent I couldn't easily push the follower into the magazine. It has a semi-supported follower -- AKA not like Chip McCormick shooting star, more like a halfassed stamped version of the Wilson follower.

Advantage to Wilson. I don't know why Kimber doesn't switch to Wilson or something similar for mags. I think the reliability issues are probably majority magazine related.
 
#23
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I switched mags to Wilson #47DC's the kimber mag had a burr on the follower to the extent I couldn't easily push the follower into the magazine. It has a semi-supported follower -- AKA not like Chip McCormick shooting star, more like a halfassed stamped version of the Wilson follower.

Advantage to Wilson. I don't know why Kimber doesn't switch to Wilson or something similar for mags. I think the reliability issues are probably majority magazine related. </div></div>

The mags Kimbers ship with are shit, but Kim-Pro-Tacs are great. I've got 5 or so and have nothing but greatness from them. I'm actually not a big fan of Wilson mags. The 2 I have are questionable, use 'em as range mags. The follower hits the mag going in and gouges are taken out of the plastic follower. This concerns me greatly, so I stick with Kim-Pro's. Actually have 2 Tripp Research mags coming from the group buy here on SH. Can't wait to see how nice they are! I've heard they're the cat's meow...
 
#24
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kimberseries1</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I switched mags to Wilson #47DC's the kimber mag had a burr on the follower to the extent I couldn't easily push the follower into the magazine. It has a semi-supported follower -- AKA not like Chip McCormick shooting star, more like a halfassed stamped version of the Wilson follower.

Advantage to Wilson. I don't know why Kimber doesn't switch to Wilson or something similar for mags. I think the reliability issues are probably majority magazine related. </div></div>

The mags Kimbers ship with are shit, but Kim-Pro-Tacs are great. I've got 5 or so and have nothing but greatness from them. I'm actually not a big fan of Wilson mags. The 2 I have are questionable, use 'em as range mags. The follower hits the mag going in and gouges are taken out of the plastic follower. This concerns me greatly, so I stick with Kim-Pro's. Actually have 2 Tripp Research mags coming from the group buy here on SH. Can't wait to see how nice they are! I've heard they're the cat's meow... </div></div>

The wilson's I just bought don't shave any plastic when you push them into the magazine- there is no resistance at all, they glide.

They are rated 4.5 out of 5 stars on Brownells. Mine look pretty good. I'd have bought Tripp if they were sold at Midway or brownells. They deffinitely have an edge in the "mystique" category.
 
#26
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TRP, no question.

I stumbled across one of my more favorite quotes again today going through class notes.

"Kimbers have more issues than Life magazine." - Larry Vickers </div></div>

I've owned two springfields. One was a loaded 1911 in stainless steel. The other a TRP Operator.

The Loaded had maybe 200 malfs in the first 500 rounds. So many I finally sold the gun and gave up trying to break it in. Lots of failures to return to battery, some failures to feed etc. It was a beautiful stainless gun with novak sights and I really wanted it to work, but it just didn't work for crap.

The TRP Operator had failures to feed the first round from a magazine almost every time. The mag catch was low, creating a poor feed angle that caused that to happen. The magazine would literally hang about .060" low of the frame- totally abnormal. I later got a high shelf mag catch to fix the problem.

I owned one Kimber previously- a Custom Royal. I don't think it ever malfed. I fired 750 rounds before sending it to a smith who somewhat heavily customized it, and after getting a lot of work done it continued to work 100%.

I once put 100 rounds through a Kimber Gold Match range rental, it didn't malf in the 100 rounds.

I haven't fired the CDP Pro yet but I doubt I'll have issues.

Larry Vickers works on or at least used to work on 1911's, so he's not really "unbiased".

I just happened to visit an uncle tonight who showed me his Springfield mil-spec. (gun he was proud of) The barrel fit was absolute crap, the bushing itself had play, the barrel feet and link were obviously not fit as I could push on the hood and the barrel would drop .04". The barrel to bushing fit was also loose.

My Kimber CDP Pro has no play in the barrel. I'm pretty sure Kimber makes a better production gun.

If I had to choose between a sloppy, half-assed 1911 and a Glock, I'd pick the Glock every day of the week. Thankfully some 1911's aren't poorly manufactured and they are really nice weapons.
 
#27
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">TRP, no question.

I stumbled across one of my more favorite quotes again today going through class notes.

"Kimbers have more issues than Life magazine." - Larry Vickers </div></div>

I've owned two springfields. One was a loaded 1911 in stainless steel. The other a TRP Operator.

The Loaded had maybe 200 malfs in the first 500 rounds. So many I finally sold the gun and gave up trying to break it in. Lots of failures to return to battery, some failures to feed etc. It was a beautiful stainless gun with novak sights and I really wanted it to work, but it just didn't work for crap.

The TRP Operator had failures to feed the first round from a magazine almost every time. The mag catch was low, creating a poor feed angle that caused that to happen. The magazine would literally hang about .060" low of the frame- totally abnormal. I later got a high shelf mag catch to fix the problem.

I owned one Kimber previously- a Custom Royal. I don't think it ever malfed. <span style="text-decoration: underline">I fired 750 rounds</span> before sending it to a smith who somewhat heavily customized it, and after getting a lot of work done it continued to work 100%.

I once put 100 rounds through a Kimber Gold Match range rental, it didn't malf in the 100 rounds.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">I haven't fired the CDP Pro yet</span> but I doubt I'll have issues.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Larry Vickers works on or at least used to work on 1911's, so he's not really "unbiased". </span>

I just happened to visit an uncle tonight who showed me his Springfield <span style="text-decoration: underline">mil-spec.</span> (gun he was proud of) The barrel fit was absolute crap, the bushing itself had play, the barrel feet and link were obviously not fit as I could push on the hood and the barrel would drop .04". The barrel to bushing fit was also loose.

My Kimber <span style="text-decoration: underline">CDP Pro</span> has no play in the barrel. I'm pretty sure Kimber makes a better production gun.

If I had to choose between a sloppy, half-assed 1911 and a Glock, I'd pick the Glock every day of the week. Thankfully some 1911's aren't poorly manufactured and they are really nice weapons. </div></div>

Larry is one of the most respected authorities on the 1911... the fact that he's "worked on them" gives his opinion weight, not bias.

So, you're comparing the fit of a $575 mil-spec (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/32592)
to a $1150 CDP (http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411534030/Kimber+Pro+CDP++II)?

Hardly apples to apples there...

So, its sounds like you have less thank 1k rounds through Kimber 1911's, but you want to give them a ringing endorsement?

Here's another 1911 SME's opinion on Kimbers: http://10-8performance.blogspot.com/2010/07/kimber-warrior.html
 
#28
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

580 rounds through my Kimber TE II, 0 malfunctions caused by the gun, 1 Dud round where the primer just didnt ignite, from a box of misc reloads I bought at an indoor range. I have no complaints.
 
#29
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

I have about equal experience with Springfield and Kimber and my Kimber experience has been flawless, and my springfield experience hasn't been.

The SA Loaded SS 1911 fit real tight. But the slide wouldn't close sometimes 5 times during an 8 round magazine. 1/8th" out of battery- the gun is down. That's a malfunction in my opinion.

The TRP Operator had a totally flawed mag catch height.

The operator wasn't a bad gun- it fit a little sloppy, and shot decent, but 230 grain ball is a basic load, and every first round would hang up on the feed ramp because the frame's mag catch slot wasn't machined in the right place.

Blanket statements like your Larry Vickers quote don't really help inform anyone when they don't represent the truth. Kimber makes good pistols.

I know other people have better experience with Springfield, so I don't say "Springfield's suck" as that would be a blanket statement. Rather I just say, I haven't had good experiences with Springfield.
 
#30
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have about equal experience with Springfield and Kimber and my Kimber experience has been flawless, and my springfield experience hasn't been.

The SA Loaded SS 1911 fit real tight. But the slide wouldn't close sometimes 5 times during an 8 round magazine. 1/8th" out of battery- the gun is down. That's a malfunction in my opinion.

The TRP Operator had a totally flawed mag catch height.

The operator wasn't a bad gun- it fit a little sloppy, and shot decent, but 230 grain ball is a basic load, and every first round would hang up on the feed ramp because the frame's mag catch slot wasn't machined in the right place.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Blanket statements like your Larry Vickers quote don't really help inform anyone when they don't represent the truth. Kimber makes good pistols. </span>

I know other people have better experience with Springfield, so I don't say "Springfield's suck" as that would be a blanket statement. Rather I just say, I haven't had good experiences with Springfield. </div></div>

They very much do represent the truth. I've worked for two Kimber dealers and seen the return rates first hand.

Can you name one reputable pistol smith who recommends them?

I can't think of a single one.
http://www.harrisoncustom.com/FAQ.aspx
http://www.10-8performance.com/pages/Choosing-a-1911-for-Duty-Use.html
http://www.heirloomprecision.com/info/faq.shtml

Most I know, and which I would trust to do work for me, recommend against them.
 
#31
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Can you name one reputable pistol smith who recommends them?

I can't think of a single one.

</div></div>


Can you think of how a reputable pistol smith is supposed to make money by recommending a gun that comes with a 4LB trigger, and decent looking frontstrap checkering, and Novak or Bomar sight cuts, a fitted barrel, and forward and rear cocking serrations as standard features?

At least with Springfield they get a gun that can be checkered, and that needs accuracy and reliability work.

The Springfields also have an edge in the "classic style department". They will result in better looking guns to showcase in a portfolio.

Would Vickers want one of his guns to say "Kimber" on the side? Probably not. The Kimber has a trademark look- it's much harder to make a Kimber gun really look unique IMO.

There are fashion faux pas to consider. If these guys violate socially acceptable, they devalue their name and lower demand for their work.

When I bought my Springfield loaded, it came with a two piece barrel. It fit nice, but how is making the barrel from two pieces helping in the accuracy department? Can two parts be more solid than one? That's really not an upsell.

People get into the MIM or billet debate a lot. Many people use castings also which is yet another technology.

I was working on a couple 1911's once and realized that even billet parts are not created equal. Some of the makers tool steel sears are soft. Others (Nowlin) are very hard. Ed brown's "Hard core" slide stop was cast and warped so the part wouldn't sit flat to the frame (both parts in my order)< I assumed "hardcore" meant billet. Obviously not- casting lines were present.

I personally feel a quality MIM'd part is probably going to better some companies billet or cast parts. So I no longer feel generalizations are an accurate way to compare guns.

The fitment of course probably also determines the stress or lack thereof imparted to the parts. So there are a lot of factors involved making it difficult to just say "kimber sucks".

I personally like the plastic MSH. It's lighter material. Other people despise it. To each their own.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I'm not a Kimber fanboy either. I like Colt, I like Baer- but of course 4 months is the current wait on a Baer gun.

I bet Sig does a good job, and if it weren't for the SIG looking slides and external extractors I might even own one instead of a Kimber- they are affordable, and SIG has a reputation for quality.

I would love to own a springfield TRP Pro- but then that's a custom shop gun with a one piece barrel most likely- a totally hand fitted gun, guaranteed to work properly, shoot accurately and be dependable. </span>
 
#32
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

Griffin, Kimber did make a very nice and market changing 1911 that gave great value for the dollar (I still have one)......but that ended in about the mid 90's. Sure, Kimber still has it's fans but not many among anybody that shoots 1911's much at all. The vast majority of Kimber fans are folks early in their 1911 journey who are wooed by a reputation earned from the quality series I guns and long since forgotten by Kimber. That is not to say that there are not some good running Kimbers right out of the box serving people well, but it is very much more of a gamble than other similiar options.
 
#33
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Can you name one reputable pistol smith who recommends them?

I can't think of a single one.

</div></div>


Can you think of how a reputable pistol smith is supposed to make money by recommending a gun that comes with a 4LB trigger, and decent looking frontstrap checkering, and Novak or Bomar sight cuts, a fitted barrel, and forward and rear cocking serrations as standard features?

At least with Springfield they get a gun that can be checkered, and that needs accuracy and reliability work.

The Springfields also have an edge in the "classic style department". They will result in better looking guns to showcase in a portfolio.

Would Vickers want one of his guns to say "Kimber" on the side? Probably not. The Kimber has a trademark look- it's much harder to make a Kimber gun really look unique IMO.

There are fashion faux pas to consider. If these guys violate socially acceptable, they devalue their name and lower demand for their work.

When I bought my Springfield loaded, it came with a two piece barrel. It fit nice, but how is making the barrel from two pieces helping in the accuracy department? Can two parts be more solid than one? That's really not an upsell.

People get into the MIM or billet debate a lot. Many people use castings also which is yet another technology.

I was working on a couple 1911's once and realized that even billet parts are not created equal. Some of the makers tool steel sears are soft. Others (Nowlin) are very hard. Ed brown's "Hard core" slide stop was cast and warped so the part wouldn't sit flat to the frame (both parts in my order)< I assumed "hardcore" meant billet. Obviously not- casting lines were present.

I personally feel a quality MIM'd part is probably going to better some companies billet or cast parts. So I no longer feel generalizations are an accurate way to compare guns.

The fitment of course probably also determines the stress or lack thereof imparted to the parts. So there are a lot of factors involved making it difficult to just say "kimber sucks".

I personally like the plastic MSH. It's lighter material. Other people despise it. To each their own.

<span style="font-weight: bold">I'm not a Kimber fanboy either. I like Colt, I like Baer- but of course 4 months is the current wait on a Baer gun.

I bet Sig does a good job, and if it weren't for the SIG looking slides and external extractors I might even own one instead of a Kimber- they are affordable, and SIG has a reputation for quality.

I would love to own a springfield TRP Pro- but then that's a custom shop gun with a one piece barrel most likely- a totally hand fitted gun, guaranteed to work properly, shoot accurately and be dependable. </span>
</div></div>

You're missing the boat on why smiths recommend particular guns. If you think LAV and John Harrison are "competing" with Kimber, you might want to rethink that. Their guns are selling at 3-5x times Kimber prices, WHEN they agree to even take work. It's like implying that a Ferrari mechanic who doesn't recommend Kia's, does so because "they run so well." Let's be real.

Sig has gone to shit in recent history too. Same guy who ruined Kimber is killing Sig (Ron Cohen). That's why they got kicked out of the ATF trials, the FAM's lot of .357 P229R's was rejected (and dumped on the commercial market), the P250's the FAM's got instead are sitting in storage because they won't run, etc.

Sig's reputation for quality died in 2005 when they brought Cohen in. Kimber's reputation for quality died when they moved to Yonkers and started their Series II BS.

Most of the West Coast Kimbers and the pre-2005 Sigs's are fantastic guns. Current production of both is to be avoided though to anyone who demands that they actually run.

Both of their business plans now revolve around full page glossy pictures in gun rags of the same gun with subtle feature and finish changes to an otherwise stale line up. Both rush guns out the door as cheaply as they can, tell customers to shoot a case of ammo through them to "break them in" (knowing most will put them in the safe and forget about them before they finish a single case) and repair them for the people who complain as it's cheaper than doing it right the first time, for everyone.

This is pretty widely known info for anyone who wants to look into it. Here's a start:
http://www.xdtalk.com/forums/non-xd-handguns/129549-when-did-sig-sauer-decline.html
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=850310#post850310
http://vuurwapenblog.com/2011/11/11/sig-continues-series-of-embarrassing-pistol-tender-failures/

Just google "Ron Cohen sig kimber"... it's all right there.
 
#34
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ggmanning</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Griffin, Kimber did make a very nice and market changing 1911 that gave great value for the dollar (I still have one)......but that ended in about the mid 90's. Sure, Kimber still has it's fans but not many among anybody that shoots 1911's much at all. The vast majority of Kimber fans are folks early in their 1911 journey who are wooed by a reputation earned from the quality series I guns and long since forgotten by Kimber. That is not to say that there are not some good running Kimbers right out of the box serving people well, but it is very much more of a gamble than other similiar options. </div></div>

I think there is another phenomenon. That's the people that seem to be comparing Springfield Custom shop pistols like the $2500 TRP Pro or their favorite custom 1911 with the $875 Kimber production gun and calling the Kimber crap.

I've had 3 custom guns in the $2000-$3500 range, one Les Baer, and a slew of cheaper 1911's, but time I was buying a carry gun.

Kimber made a quality gun with an aluminum frame and I picked one up for $1000 used. I haven't shot this one, but it appears to be a great value (fit is excellent) and represents a quality lightweight, somewhat compact 1911, where the only alternative was the Talo Wiley Clapp Commander which is $300 more expensive.

I considered the Colt, but it was blued steel, and had a unique and non tritium sighting arrangement, and Wiley Clapp Specifically wanted the slide to frame fit to be loose which I don't really agree with, so there were a few drawbacks besides cost on the Colt side.

I had an all stainless steel Colt Combat Commander previously, and it was a reliable and accurate gun, but it had a mil-spec style safety and mil-spec sights, and a commander hammer combined with a retrofit beavertail (aka no frame modification). The guns from Colt come somewhat bland and leave a lot to be desired in the way of features.
 
#35
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

Kimber's rep has been spotty since I got into shooting. Not that long ago as i'm not that old. But when i was looking for a nice semi-custom rifle in .260rem to hunt with about 4 years ago, they had mixed reviews. Seems the same has fallen with their pistols. Not to discredit yours Griffen, there is usually more negative though than positive when kimber is mentioned in 1911 choice now a days or so it seems. Springfield usually has a very good rep. Most of the TRPs and MC operators, and Pros have had good feed back from what i've seen. Since kimber split from the original "Kimber of oregon" they've never been the same IMO.
 
#36
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sig's reputation for quality died in 2005 when they brought Cohen in. Kimber's reputation for quality died when they moved to Yonkers and started their Series II BS.

Most of the West Coast Kimbers and the pre-2005 Sigs's are fantastic guns. Current production of both is to be avoided though to anyone who demands that they actually run.
</div></div>

This is complete and utter bullshit.

First of all, Kimber has never made 1911s anywhere besides New York. Some frames were made while the FFL still had an Oregon address, and so the earliest Kimbers have that address on them. There is no such thing as a "West Coast Kimber." All of that bullshit is internet myth. The series II bullshit and the external extractor happened WAY later (2003-2004 IIRC). Many very nice Kimbers exist with Yonkers, NY marks on their frames.

The Sig discussion, I can stay out of, because I really don't care either way. I sold all of my Sigs years ago.

Springfield's Brazil made guns have always been sloppy and the internet is full of apologists. That is why I recommend STI now. They are the only company with a consistent record of quality.
 
#37
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

Personally I have owned 2 Kimbers:

a very early Series II Gold Combat with internal extractor; I still regret getting rid of the Gold Combat.

a Series I Classic Custom. I still use this 1911 as my "class" pistol. It eats 500 rounds a day without blinking.

I would not own a Kimber Series II with external extractor, but would not hesitate to get another Series I if I cam across one that I liked.

That being said, Kimber is not my first choice for 1911s.

I have an amazing Ed Brown Molon Labe Commander size.

I own 5 Colts, but that is just the way it worked out. They all have custom work, and the Series 70 is a great platform to build from.

I have shot Wilson Combat and Les Baer, and consider them excellent, I also consider Ed Brown in this group. There are other semi-custom makers, these are just the ones that I have had an opportunity to handle and shoot.

Jeffvn
 
#38
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sig's reputation for quality died in 2005 when they brought Cohen in. Kimber's reputation for quality died when they moved to Yonkers and started their Series II BS.

Most of the West Coast Kimbers and the pre-2005 Sigs's are fantastic guns. Current production of both is to be avoided though to anyone who demands that they actually run.
</div></div>

This is complete and utter bullshit.

First of all, Kimber has never made 1911s anywhere besides New York. Some frames were made while the FFL still had an Oregon address, and so the earliest Kimbers have that address on them. There is no such thing as a "West Coast Kimber." All of that bullshit is internet myth. The series II bullshit and the external extractor happened WAY later (2003-2004 IIRC). Many very nice Kimbers exist with Yonkers, NY marks on their frames.

The Sig discussion, I can stay out of, because I really don't care either way. I sold all of my Sigs years ago.

Springfield's Brazil made guns have always been sloppy and the internet is full of apologists. That is why I recommend STI now. They are the only company with a consistent record of quality.</div></div>

I have seen a number of Yonkers pre Series II guns with problems with them. Never once seen or heard of a problem with a Clarkamas era Kimber, other than needing some extractor tuning or something.

SOMETHING happened with Kimber that impacted their QC and reliability, and all the evidence I've seen points to their guns being labeled Yonkers.
 
#39
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jim D</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Sig's reputation for quality died in 2005 when they brought Cohen in. Kimber's reputation for quality died when they moved to Yonkers and started their Series II BS.

Most of the West Coast Kimbers and the pre-2005 Sigs's are fantastic guns. Current production of both is to be avoided though to anyone who demands that they actually run.
</div></div>

This is complete and utter bullshit.

First of all, Kimber has never made 1911s anywhere besides New York. Some frames were made while the FFL still had an Oregon address, and so the earliest Kimbers have that address on them. There is no such thing as a "West Coast Kimber." All of that bullshit is internet myth. The series II bullshit and the external extractor happened WAY later (2003-2004 IIRC). Many very nice Kimbers exist with Yonkers, NY marks on their frames.

The Sig discussion, I can stay out of, because I really don't care either way. I sold all of my Sigs years ago.

Springfield's Brazil made guns have always been sloppy and the internet is full of apologists. That is why I recommend STI now. They are the only company with a consistent record of quality.</div></div>

I have seen a number of Yonkers pre Series II guns with problems with them. Never once seen or heard of a problem with a Clarkamas era Kimber, other than needing some extractor tuning or something.

SOMETHING happened with Kimber that impacted their QC and reliability, and all the evidence I've seen points to their guns being labeled Yonkers. </div></div>

They were literally made in the same factory. It has nothing to do with the address on the side. ALL Kimber 1911s, every single one ever made, was fit and assembled in the Yonkers factory.
 
#40
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downzero</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Springfield's Brazil made guns have always been sloppy and the internet is full of apologists. That is why I recommend STI now. They are the only company with a consistent record of quality. </div></div>

My Stainless SA gun was a Brazil gun- I kind of thought that had something to do with it. It was pretty tightly fitted, some metal must have had an interference fit- that seemed to be the only way to explain why the slide didn't want to close that last 1/8" most of the time. I looked at it, and couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. The parts looked normal.

I don't know much about Springfield, but thought the only way to get a US made and assembled Springfield was to buy a full custom shop gun like the TRP Pro.
 
#41
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

My Stainless SA gun was a Brazil gun- I kind of thought that had something to do with it. It was pretty tightly fitted, some metal must have had an interference fit- that seemed to be the only way to explain why the slide didn't want to close that last 1/8" most of the time. I looked at it, and couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. The parts looked normal.

I don't know much about Springfield, but thought the only way to get a US made and assembled Springfield was to buy a full custom shop gun like the TRP Pro. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hunter121</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Easy way to find out if your springer is a USA Made one is by the serial number.

WW & N prefix = Brazil ( all ww guns, some milspec & standard loaded models)
NM & CRG prefix = Final machineing and fitting done in USA on Brazil Forgings ( MC Operators, TRPs, ETC, PROS)
LW & EMP Prefix- These are also USA assembled, not to sure where the frames come from but I if I Read/remember correctly the frames are USA as well. ( these are all of your aluminum frame guns)</div></div>

Here's what hunter told me in my thread on SA's MC operator. I've emailed the custom shop about sending my MC operator when i get it back to get the lower armory coated black, so it would be completely black. I also asked about which guns where made where but i was told to contact sales for factory guns.
 
#42
Re: ? about a Kimber 1911

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">[It was pretty tightly fitted, some metal must have had an interference fit- that seemed to be the only way to explain why the slide didn't want to close that last 1/8" most of the time. I looked at it, and couldn't figure out what was causing the problem. The parts looked normal.</div></div>

I suspect it was a barrel fit issue. The last 1/8" is where the barrel has to tilt up and lock into the upper locking lugs. Perhaps the hood was too wide/long and/or the lugs weren't locking up correctly.
 
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