Advanced Sniper Rifle Solicitation

[canuckistaninia]

Thanks....I thought while I waited for an answer that maybe I should go back and do some due diligence and read the thread. I saw that on page five back in March. D'oh!

For some dumb reason, I stopped getting alerts on this thread. I get 'em on others.

In any case, what is the consensus so far on the MRAD?

The consensus of those of us that have them, is that we are pretty happy. The biggest beef is the inability to get the barrel extensions separately, but least one guy has a 3rd party barrel, he just needed to find a donor barrel/extension to make it happen.

 

[AIAW]

Thanks....I thought while I waited for an answer that maybe I should go back and do some due diligence and read the thread. I saw that on page five back in March. D'oh!

For some dumb reason, I stopped getting alerts on this thread. I get 'em on others.

In any case, what is the consensus so far on the MRAD?

Haven't heard anything particularly bad about them functionality-wise. I've been behind one myself and wasn't a big fan of the buttstock ergonomics, but everyone's going to be partial about that.

AI should have won that contract (I'm biased of course)!

 

[sandwarrior]

those of us that have them, are pretty happy. the biggest beef is the inability to get the barrel extension separately. At least one guy has a 3rd party barrel, he just needed to find a donor barrel/extension to make it happen.

How many cartridges are you running in yours? Is accuracy good in what you have that can change out? If no change out then no difference.

Haven't heard anything particularly bad about them functionality-wise. I've been behind one myself and wasn't a big fan of the buttstock ergonomics, but everyone's going to be partial about that.

AI should have won that contract (I'm biased of course)!

Did they ever get the trigger issue solved? It seems a bit hard for me to believe that many triggers went down. UNLESS, of course, people are running bench level triggers in comps that require movement and slamming and banging around.

 

[AIAW]

Did they ever get the trigger issue solved? It seems a bit hard for me to believe that many triggers went down. UNLESS, of course, people are running bench level triggers in comps that require movement and slamming and banging around.

Not with the competition triggers. Evidently there are still some random issues with those.

The AXSR itself will truthfully answer this concern I believe, once it's been out and gets put through a few paces in different scenarios. Texas baby-powder caliche is a good test all in itself!

 

[sandwarrior]

Another dumb question on this thread. It seems this contract is for SOCOM? What about the rest of the M2010's the Army had converted. Meaning what sniper rifle is going forward for the rest of the regular Army?

 

[Huskydriver]

Another dumb question on this thread. It seems this contract is for SOCOM? What about the rest of the M2010's the Army had converted. Meaning what sniper rifle is going forward for the rest of the regular Army?

I thought it was the m2010 and the g28/ m110a1 was replacing all the m110s and m14ebrs but I have been out a few years now

 

[pmclaine]

Hi,
Do you know of any time that has ever happened lolol?

They will continue to "revise" the requirements, specifically the delivery quantity and delivery timelines until only SIG SAUER is able to meet those requirements.

Sincerely,
Theis

I tightened that up a little for you to achieve clarity.

 

[AIAW]

Another dumb question on this thread. It seems this contract is for SOCOM? What about the rest of the M2010's the Army had converted. Meaning what sniper rifle is going forward for the rest of the regular Army?

As far as I have heard they will remain with the M2010 and M24 (gradually being phased out) systems primarily. They have started to field the M110A1 DMR, obviously for that role alone.

Honorable mention to the M107 as well - that's not going anywhere...

 

[canuckistaninia]

How many cartridges are you running in yours? Is accuracy good in what you have that can change out? If no change out then no difference.

So I have 3 caliber kits. there is a POI shift between them (IE my 308 barrel does not have the same POI as my 338LM barrel), but thepoi shift with each barrel is within 1-2 scope clicks when I put it back in. So I may have to dial 7-10 clicks switching between kits, but when I go back to a barrel it's POI will be damn close to it's "old" poi

I thought it was the m2010 and the g28/ m110a1 was replacing all the m110s and m14ebrs but I have been out a few years now

I thought I read the military had killed the m2010 procurement with only a fraction delivered.

 

[Huskydriver]

So I have 3 caliber kits. there is a POI shift between them (IE my 308 barrel does not have the same POI as my 338LM barrel), but thepoi shift with each barrel is within 1-2 scope clicks when I put it back in. So I may have to dial 7-10 clicks switching between kits, but when I go back to a barrel it's POI will be damn close to it's "old" poi


I thought I read the military had killed the m2010 procurement with only a fraction delivered.

Pretty sure they delivered all 2500ish as requested in the initial order.

 

[canuckistaninia]

Pretty sure they delivered all 2500ish as requested in the initial order.

I'm going from memory, but I thought I read that it went belly up because remington showed up to the trials will one rifle (which won), then tried to deliver one with a subpar barrel *shrug* . There was a thread with links to government website showing open orders, cancelled orders, all sorts of crap that was far above my level of comprehension. I know when I've tried to google it, I came up dry but it was on here somewhere. Give it some time, and someone with first hand knowledge will probably show up to explain what happened with the remington, they'll either confirm what I remember, or tell me I'm full of shit,

 

[Huskydriver]

I'm going from memory, but I thought I read that it went belly up because remington showed up to the trials will one rifle (which won), then tried to deliver one with a subpar barrel *shrug* . There was a thread with links to government website showing open orders, cancelled orders, all sorts of crap that was far above my level of comprehension. I know when I've tried to google it, I came up dry but it was on here somewhere. Give it some time, and someone with first hand knowledge will probably show up to explain what happened with the remington, they'll either confirm what I remember, or tell me I'm full of shit,

That very well could be why they didn't order anymore but as far as I know there is no replacement for what they have currently bought. The 2010, m24, and m110a1 are the current Army long rifle line up with no open bids to replace any of the above. Could be wrong

 

[sandwarrior]

I'm going from memory, but I thought I read that it went belly up because remington showed up to the trials will one rifle (which won), then tried to deliver one with a subpar barrel *shrug* . There was a thread with links to government website showing open orders, cancelled orders, all sorts of crap that was far above my level of comprehension. I know when I've tried to google it, I came up dry but it was on here somewhere. Give it some time, and someone with first hand knowledge will probably show up to explain what happened with the remington, they'll either confirm what I remember, or tell me I'm full of shit,

Not the first time any of us has been told that Just take it in stride, you know what you know. And, no matter how hard someone tries to shove some bullschitt down your throat, you not only don't have to swallow it, you don't even have to taste it. Call it out, and leave it. ?

FWIW, going back to the original Marine 700's/M40 (even the Win 70's) the barrels were aftermarket (Douglass, who button rifles). On subsequent sub-models they still used aftermarket barrels. When Remington got the M24, they insisted on using their barrels. That didn't work because: a.) no one took the care and precision the Marine PWS did cutting and installing them, and: b.) their barrels are NOT up to par with just about ANY aftermarket barrel. Hammer forged barrels simply are not that acccurate, I don't care what anyone says. Too many stresses induced into the barrel by the manufacturing process.

So, it doesn't surprise me that the Remingtons aren't up to snuff. They've told themselves so many times that a hammer-forged barrel is superior, that they actually believe it. Yet, they show up with a custom barrel to look good. No bueno!!

 

[AIAW]

I'm going from memory, but I thought I read that it went belly up because remington showed up to the trials will one rifle (which won), then tried to deliver one with a subpar barrel *shrug* . There was a thread with links to government website showing open orders, cancelled orders, all sorts of crap that was far above my level of comprehension. I know when I've tried to google it, I came up dry but it was on here somewhere. Give it some time, and someone with first hand knowledge will probably show up to explain what happened with the remington, they'll either confirm what I remember, or tell me I'm full of shit,

You are thinking about the Remington MSR/PSR (MK21). That is the SOCOM weapon system that the MRAD replaced (also adopted the MK21 designation). The M2010 remained untouched during the asshattery.

Here's my thread about that whole debacle.

Modern "exotic" rifle, stupid issues

So, I bought one of the last Remington MSR's that anyone has in stock across the country as I understand it (and have been told). Remington halted production on the MK21 right after they lost the SOCCOM PSR contract. I say lost whereas it was more of a "I give up" sort of situation there. What...

www.snipershide.com

 

[schmi015]

So the xm2010 is for big green. The psr was for socom. Remington won the psr contract with a bartlein barrel. They switched to an in house barrel to save money and the delivered test lots didn’t meet accuracy specs. Socom canceled the psr. In the mean time sof has been using the xm2010. Socom resolicited for the asr advanced sniper rifle which barret won.

 

[canuckistaninia]

You are thinking about the Remington MSR/PSR (MK21). That is the SOCOM weapon system that the MRAD replaced (also adopted the MK21 designation). The M2010 remained untouched during the asshattery.

Here's my thread about that whole debacle.

Modern "exotic" rifle, stupid issues

So, I bought one of the last Remington MSR's that anyone has in stock across the country as I understand it (and have been told). Remington halted production on the MK21 right after they lost the SOCCOM PSR contract. I say lost whereas it was more of a "I give up" sort of situation there. What...

www.snipershide.com

There we go, confirmation I'm full of shit... I was close, but I was wrong lol

 

[RyanScott]

You can hammer a precision rifle barrel. The TRG, FN SPR and HK M27 are hammered.

 

[AIAW]

There we go, confirmation I'm full of shit... I was close, but I was wrong lol

I wouldn't say full of shit. That's a little harsh on yourself!

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

It's all good until you've got a hundred cans of 7.62 and no way to use it because someone lost the 12mm bolt head....just sayin.

I would agree though, that from what I've heard over the years, this contract is a huge thing money-wise. Supporting it in the field is another. Scopes go down, no replacement. A stupid thing like a replaceable bolt head doesn't happen because it went into someones pocket instead of back in the case. Or, it fell out of the case. I can see swapping calibers at a firebase, but not out in the field. Too easy to get too much lost.

Back to the scopes, we've got thousands invested in this, yet I hear from guys it's a total rundown of what you can't do with the rifle when it's issued to a new shooter because the scope won't adjust anymore. This is before we even throw all that electronic night vision crap on there.

One last parting shot on Remington, it's time they figure out that hammer forged barrels are not the best choice for accuracy. They act like it still is. It leaves too many stresses in the barrel that show up when it gets hot. Cut-rifled would be preferable, but they are slow to make. The best "production" barrel for holding accuracy is button rifled. You can make them fast and they are accurate. They hold it well over time as the work done to the metal hardens the inside of the barrel. We could go further with that and use industrial hardening techniques like meloniting. Seems like we can do it out here in the civilian world but not the military.



As to the 6.5 Creed, I could give a fuck about PRS. That round kills just fine. And it can do it a lot farther out than the 7.62. It also weighs less than a standard M80 and substantially less than M118. People get all enamored with "magnum power", while totally disregarding bullet efficiency. Stupidest thing I've ever seen is a single barrel magnum machine gun. Some fuckweed in the pentagon has obviously never shot a machine gun much and doesn't know that even with 7.62 you have to change barrels a lot. Absolutely retarded going to .300NM for a machine gun. Watch 'em break left and right in the field.

Not sure if its been mentioned, but from what I read, the Rem MSR barrels WERE nitrided..

 

[sandwarrior]

Not sure if its been mentioned, but from what I read, the Rem MSR barrels WERE nitrided..

Nitriding helps them last. It doesn't hurt the intended accuracy. The problem is the change in POI that Remington barrels are known for.
It has more to do with how well they normalize the barrel after manufacturing it. Correctly done, the stresses are relieved. Too often the timelines of the contract get companies to worry more about that than normalizing correctly. The nitriding process is not a deep heating process intended to alleviate stresses.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

Nitriding helps them last. It doesn't hurt the intended accuracy. The problem is the change in POI that Remington barrels are known for.
It has more to do with how well they normalize the barrel after manufacturing it. Correctly done, the stresses are relieved. Too often the timelines of the contract get companies to worry more about that than normalizing correctly. The nitriding process is not a deep heating process intended to alleviate stresses.

I was simply saying from everything I know, the MSR barrels were nitrided. No doubt tho, Remington has absolutely ruined their once good reputation. Damn shame.. and its dumb they didn't stick with Bartlein cause the test rifles had Barts on em.
On a similar note, whats the cutoff year you'd consider a Remington factory/unmodded rifle to be GTG as long as its made before/during that particular year? I gotta R700 from '63 in .222 thats excellent.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

You can hammer a precision rifle barrel. The TRG, FN SPR and HK M27 are hammered.

Uh, yeah. I don't think anyone said otherwise? On that note, if you gotta line on a FN PBR for ~$800, definitely let me know! Haha

 

[918v]

It's all good until you've got a hundred cans of 7.62 and no way to use it because someone lost the 12mm bolt head....just sayin.

I would agree though, that from what I've heard over the years, this contract is a huge thing money-wise. Supporting it in the field is another. Scopes go down, no replacement. A stupid thing like a replaceable bolt head doesn't happen because it went into someones pocket instead of back in the case. Or, it fell out of the case. I can see swapping calibers at a firebase, but not out in the field. Too easy to get too much lost.

Back to the scopes, we've got thousands invested in this, yet I hear from guys it's a total rundown of what you can't do with the rifle when it's issued to a new shooter because the scope won't adjust anymore. This is before we even throw all that electronic night vision crap on there.

One last parting shot on Remington, it's time they figure out that hammer forged barrels are not the best choice for accuracy. They act like it still is. It leaves too many stresses in the barrel that show up when it gets hot. Cut-rifled would be preferable, but they are slow to make. The best "production" barrel for holding accuracy is button rifled. You can make them fast and they are accurate. They hold it well over time as the work done to the metal hardens the inside of the barrel. We could go further with that and use industrial hardening techniques like meloniting. Seems like we can do it out here in the civilian world but not the military.



As to the 6.5 Creed, I could give a fuck about PRS. That round kills just fine. And it can do it a lot farther out than the 7.62. It also weighs less than a standard M80 and substantially less than M118. People get all enamored with "magnum power", while totally disregarding bullet efficiency. Stupidest thing I've ever seen is a single barrel magnum machine gun. Some fuckweed in the pentagon has obviously never shot a machine gun much and doesn't know that even with 7.62 you have to change barrels a lot. Absolutely retarded going to .300NM for a machine gun. Watch 'em break left and right in the field.

6.5CM case design is not reliable for combat use. There is a reason why military cases are shaped a certain way. It’s not for milking every last FPS from the round.

 

[sandwarrior]

6.5CM case design is not reliable for combat use. There is a reason why military cases are shaped a certain way. It’s not for milking every last FPS from the round.

I would have to agree with that. Thus why the .300 Savage (T65) was morphed into the .308 (T65E3). Feeding rapidly not working so well with 30 deg. Shoulder.