Advice About Turning my AR into a Precision Rifle

[Centuriator]

Before I begin here, let me state that I'm entirely aware of the limitations of the AR15 and the 5.56 cartridge when it comes to performing as a precision rifle, so ... no need to head that direction, if you don't mind.

I purchased another AR recently and one of my reasons was to turn it into more of a longer range/precision platform, it is a Daniel Defense M4 V7.

My question simply is what should I consider doing to it to improve its accuracy. I'm not looking to put into another stock system, but basically simply to "upgrade" it from stock to customized enough to improve its accuracy. I should also mention I have and will be putting in a Geissele SSA-E system into it.

Here are the specs on the rifle:

• LOWER RECEIVER: Mil-Spec with Enhanced Flared Magazine Well and Rear Receiver QD Swivel Attachment Point. CNC Machined of 7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized
• UPPER RECEIVER: Mil-Spec with Indexing Marks and M4 Feed Ramps. CNC Machined of 7075-T6 Aluminum, Type III Hard Coat Anodized
• BARREL: Chrome Moly Vanadium Steel, Cold Hammer Forged, 1:7 twist, 16″ Government Profile, Mid-length Gas System, Chrome Lined, MP tested, and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate Coated
• GAS SYSTEM: Pinned Low Profile Gas Block CNC Machined of 4140 hardened steel and Mil-Spec Heavy Phosphate Coating, Mid-length, Direct Impingement
• MUZZLE DEVICE: Daniel Defense Flash Suppressor, 17-4 PH Stainless Steel, Salt Bath Nitride Finished
• BOLT CARRIER GROUP: M16 Profile, Mil-Spec MP Tested, Chrome Lined, Properly Staked Gas Key
• BUFFER: H Buffer
• SIGHTS: Sold Separately
• HANDGUARD: Daniel Defense Modular Float Rail™ 12.0, CNC Machined of 6061-T6 Aluminum, with three Modular Picatinny Rail Sections, Type III Hard Coat Anodized
• RECEIVER EXTENSION: 6 Position Mil-Spec 7075-T6 Aluminum
• BUTTSTOCK: Daniel Defense Buttstock, Glass Filled Polymer with Soft Touch Overmolding
• PISTOL GRIP: Daniel Defense Pistol Grip, Glass Filled Polymer with Soft Touch Overmolding
• Made in the USA!

 

[wareagle700]

Buy a premium match grade barrel, decent optic, and geissele trigger. The rest will be up to you.

 

[Deadshot2]

Buy a premium match grade barrel, decent optic, and geissele trigger. The rest will be up to you.

+1 on this.

Most people tend to dump a bunch of money into things that don't contribute to accuracy at all. An AR platform rifle needs a better barrel than "Mil-Spec" as well as a precision trigger assy to give it great accuracy. The rest is up to the shooter, as someone here once said, to "learn how to drive it".

FWIW, if you're seeking the ultimate in accuracy you might find yourself limited unless you handload cartridges that will need to be single loaded. The better performing bullets often can't be practically seated deep enough for magazine feeding.

 

[k7714]

Send the Upper to Compass Lake Engineering.

Have an 18" Douglass 1/7 Twist installed. SPR (frank white contour). Have Frank White Do his thing to your rifle.

install Better trigger 4lbs ish, Geissele, Timney, JP, etc. etc.

Run Better ammo aka Sierra, 68,69,75 etc . Fed GMM is ideal, but not needed.

As stated before the rest is up to you....good comment on learning to "drive the rifle" running a gas gun accurate is much dependent on the shooter.


What i listed above will get your gun to shoot 1 MOA or better...if you run it.

16" will only run out to 500ish
18" will run to about 700ish
20" will run close to 1K if you do it right


Compass Lake Engineering....they know what they are doing.

Daniel Defense is mass produced battle rifle

K

 

[Strykervet]

Buy a premium match grade barrel, decent optic, and geissele trigger. The rest will be up to you.

He said it! I took one rifle with a Geissele Hi-Speed trigger (and truth be told, any good trigger that you feel comfortable with will work fine, even a tuned single stage AR trigger) a Satern cut rifle barrel in 6.5G w/matching bolt and a USO 3.2-17x. .33MOA, couldn't ask for better. It's built using a VLTOR upper, Noveske lower, JP Ent. small parts and carrier, KAC FF tube --in essence, nothing spared to make it the best.

Turns out when I had it built using the same barrel, an RRA 2 stage, a $70 upper/lower combo, milspec carrier, first a 7.62 ACOG and later a Leupold Mk4 2.5-8x when I found out just how accurate it really was, and the same FF tube and A2 buttstock, it shot EXACTLY THE SAME.

So 95-99% of your accuracy, it seems, comes from the barrel in an AR platform provided you do your part and the other components don't hinder your performance. Sure, now it's built with no corners cut, but it worked just as well when it was using cheap parts all around combined with one fine barrel. It's something to keep in mind, as all these high speed parts add little IMO when you add it all up and consider that it's the barrel that makes the rifle.

Oh, and yeah, .33MOA isn't an exaggeration. It's no shit my most accurate rifle by far. So much so I ordered a spare barrel for it for when this one goes out and another one but shorter. Satern obviously makes great shit, as their backlog is excruciating (why it's good to keep a spare on hand!).

 

[Steel head]

I started with a 16" carbine.
Put a SSA-E in the lower.
Built a upper with a BCM M4 receiver, Rainier ultra match SPR barrel and SLR rail.
Very happy with how it worked out.

 

[tickled pink]

I have not heard any complaints about WOA barrels. That's why I had them build me an 18" varmint upper with 1 in 7" twist and also fluted the barrel for me. It shoots less than 1/2" with my hunting load I used for deer last season with the original Colt upper. With Sierra 69 grain Match Kings shoot way smaller then the 65 gr. Game King reloads that shot in the target below. If you want a very long range super accurate I think you may want one at least as long as mine or longer.

 

[MLC]

How does it shoot now?
Is your optic, barrel, trigger or marksmanship holding you back?

 

[Birddog6424]

How does it shoot now?
Is your optic, barrel, trigger or marksmanship holding you back?

I'm glad someone asked that.

I shoot .7 MoA with my M4V5 DD with 75gr Match handloaded rounds.

 

[MLC]

Wow, that might actually keep you on target out to the effective range of the rifle!

 

[Muskyjerk]

Barrel and hand load

kind of like the A2 stock

 

[Centuriator]

Thanks for the advice on this guys, appreciate it.

 

[parkervbar88]

the higher quality of steel the barrel the less flex obviously ,and the better the headspacing the better. dont forget twist rates and bullet weight/OAL length

 

[jashmore1234]

Send the Upper to Compass Lake Engineering.

Have an 18" Douglass 1/7 Twist installed. SPR (frank white contour). Have Frank White Do his thing to your rifle.

install Better trigger 4lbs ish, Geissele, Timney, JP, etc. etc.

Run Better ammo aka Sierra, 68,69,75 etc . Fed GMM is ideal, but not needed.

As stated before the rest is up to you....good comment on learning to "drive the rifle" running a gas gun accurate is much dependent on the shooter.


What i listed above will get your gun to shoot 1 MOA or better...if you run it.

16" will only run out to 500ish
18" will run to about 700ish
20" will run close to 1K if you do it right


Compass Lake Engineering....they know what they are doing.

Daniel Defense is mass produced battle rifle

K

This or a WOA upper and a decent trigger. I have a CLE service rifle that shoots lights out and I just ordered a CLE varmint upper.

 

[charvey9]

Trade it for a Stag M6....lol.

Trigger, barrel, and quality reloads will be your best bet. A lot will depend on how close you can get the bullets to the rifling and still get them to fit in the magazine.

 

[fdkay]

Sell semi-auto rifle, buy AI or TRG.
Instant success.

 

[Avonac]

I took a Daniel Defense AR and replaced the barrel with a BCM 16" SS410 and bought a Geissele SSA-E. it's a rock star.

 

[MLC]

Out of curiosity, how far have you shot your rifle and with what ammo and accuracy?

 

[565fitter]

I bought an upper lapping tool and did all my uppers. Seemed to help out with my accuracy. my groups didn't really shrink, they were more consistent.

 

[splean]

That's exactly right. A Geissele trigger group, a good scope (I like Nightforce) and a good barrel (I like WOA) and you are good to go. Take care and keep us posted.

PS - Good match ammo too!

 

[Lefin102]

Everyone , I'm new to the fourm and been following this thread since I have similar interest. Can someone explain which is the better twist rate to use if I plan to use mostly NATO 55/62 grain ammo? Thx

 

[david8989]

Everyone , I'm new to the fourm and been following this thread since I have similar interest. Can someone explain which is the better twist rate to use if I plan to use mostly NATO 55/62 grain ammo? Thx

If you are only gonna be shooting that weight range of bullets then a 1-8 twist would be ideal for that weight bullet. Most people looking at shooting precision long range with the 5.56 round are using 1-7 twist barrels so they can stabilize the 77 SMK's.

 

[bp7178]

Everyone , I'm new to the fourm and been following this thread since I have similar interest. Can someone explain which is the better twist rate to use if I plan to use mostly NATO 55/62 grain ammo? Thx

If you are shooting NATO 55/62 bullets the twist rate isn't going to matter in terms of precision. The ammo is crap. A 1/7 or 1/8 twist isn't going to be what is holding you back.

 

[Lefin102]

Thx for your input. I'll go with 1/7 .

 

[MistWolf]

For best mechanical accuracy-
-Match barrel with a bolt properly head spaced to it
-Free float tube
-No muzzle device. If a muzzle device is used, don't over torque it

Add a buttstock that fits you and a good trigger

A word about "match grade" barrels- They are undoubtedly good barrels but they are not made to the same stringent specifications as match barrels. Some match grade barrels are match barrels that failed QA in some way but are entirely serviceable otherwise. Serious competitors do not use "match grade" barrels

 

[DT1]

Thanks for the advice on this guys, appreciate it.

A couple of folks asked how your rifle shoots now. What type of accuracy is acceptable to you? DD makes very good quality rifles. You might find that your current set up is plenty accurate for your needs. What distances do you want to shoot to? The 1:7 barrel the rifle came with should handle the 77's fine if you want to stretch out the distances.

You can waste an awful lot of $ in a big hurry trying to modify an AR-15 (or any rifle for that matter) if you haven't thought things through carefully. Believe me, I know... Good luck!

 

[splean]

If you are shooting NATO 55/62 bullets the twist rate isn't going to matter in terms of precision. The ammo is crap. A 1/7 or 1/8 twist isn't going to be what is holding you back.

+1 on this. M193 and M855 isn't precision by any stretch. If you're not reloading you can buy 69gr, 75gr and 77gr match ammo that will give you much better results than the NATO stuff. A 1/9 twist will stabilize the 69gr well but you'll need 1/7 or 1/8 for 75-77gr. Keep us posted.

 

[Centuriator]

A couple of folks asked how your rifle shoots now. What type of accuracy is acceptable to you? DD makes very good quality rifles. You might find that your current set up is plenty accurate for your needs. What distances do you want to shoot to? The 1:7 barrel the rifle came with should handle the 77's fine if you want to stretch out the distances.

You can waste an awful lot of $ in a big hurry trying to modify an AR-15 (or any rifle for that matter) if you haven't thought things through carefully. Believe me, I know... Good luck!

Thanks, good thoughts.

I'm going to see how I do with better ammo and the new scope and the new trigger group I just got and will report back.

Could well be I'm at the "good enough" point and there won't be much point in sinking another $600 into the rifle.