Advice for a newb and my 308... UPDATED

[wingnut49b]

Quickly tell me why this won't work...

I'm looking for a <span style="font-style: italic">decent</span> load for a SPS Tactical 308. I tried a OCW test this morning, and found I suck too bad to worry about fine tuning loads right now. Stock rifle with HS stock, off a bipod.

I have Lapua brass, 175 SMK's, Varget, and either federal match or Wolf primers.

45 grains seated mag length showed no pressure signs at 27*f this morning.

I am thinking that I should load up 200 rounds at 45g and maybe worry about load testing again after I shoot them all. Nothing else will help me settle in behind this thing and shoot well.

If you guys tell me I'm not in left field, I'm loading them all up this weekend! I shoot decent with my Savage trainer, but this punishes my errors in fundamentals way more. Not that this is news...


Andy

 

[turbo54]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

That'll work.

The first step is admitting you suck! You can't develop a great load if you can't shoot great.

I don't think I'd even bother with a full 45gr for your purposes. A lot of rifles shoot nice at 43.5(ish) too, and It'll be a cakewalk for your brass...

Consider also using a benchmark/8208xbr load so you can just throw charges with a measure...

Or maybe even just buy some Powershok or other cheap factory ammo?

 

[DPRoberts]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

45gr with a SMK is pretty hot for an undeveloped load. I would put together something 43-44gr if I just wanted crank out some practice rounds. There's really no reason to go that hot unless you're trying to get max velocity or there's a node there. In my experience with solid reloading technique any load produced will outshoot factory ammo so don't worry about accuracy. You've already done a smart thing by acknowledging that your own skill level isn't enough to utilize OCW testing. Many rounds have been wasted by people who couldn't admit that fact.

I don't see anything wrong with your idea but I would utilize a lower powder charge.

 

[wingnut49b]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

Knowing you're not good is easy when you know you can work to fix it. I think knowing your rifle is crap is worse.

If I go with 43 grains, what would be expected group size? Is 1 MOA reasonable to expect?

 

[turbo54]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

Impossible to say for sure, but there is a very good chance 43.Xgr Varget, 175smk in Lapua brass would do 1moa out of your rifle.

 

[DPRoberts]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

As turbo said its impossible to be sure how accurate your load will be but I have never loaded ammo that didn't outshoot factory match ammo by a pretty wide margin. The first rounds I ever loaded were without any development (168 smk over 44gr varget) shot almost .25 moa better than FGMM ever did in my rifle.

The bulk of accuracy comes from precise consistency between loaded cartridges. Load development is for squeezing that extra 10% accuracy out of the rifle.

 

[camocorvette]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

I think that every rifle will shoot differently with the same loads. You just have to find what your rifle likes. I'm shooting Remington brass with 43.7 grains of Varget behind a Speer 168 HPBT with a OAL of 2.820. My Rifle loves them for 100 meters it will shoot 1/2-3/4 inch groups all day. But even just going to 200m my groups open up to about an inch and a half. I know it can do better, I just have to find the right load for it. I say get your load data book, start just above min load and load up 10 rounds of each weight. going up in powder charge weight by .3's Go to the range and shoot those and record all your data to see what groups the best and go from there.

I am no pro but that's where I started off and it helped for me. I think its a waste to just load up 200 rounds of a load you don't even know works or not.

Also what DPRoberts said "The bulk of accuracy comes from precise consistency between loaded cartridges" I am a firm believer in that 100% with hand loading your ensuring (or at least i hope you are) that every round you make is as exactly the same.

So yeah you can go ahead and load 200 with out any development and they might shoot better than factory loads most likely they will if you make every one of them the same. But I think it would be more beneficial in the long run to do some load development.

Also when testing make sure you always remember your 4 fundamentals of shooting. Otherwise your test is pointless

Either way its up to you what you want to do.

Best of luck!

 

[DCR]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

Mine is liking 43.8 grains of varget pushing 178 Amax from Winchester brass with Winchester Large Primers.

 

[LawnMM]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

I'd stay under book max for practice plinking. Don't take this the wrong way but it sounds like you lack some experience both with reloading, and shooting in general.

Don't just pick a load and mass produce it. Pick something safe and work on the fundamentals. Then when you can put a decent group together, you can work on an OCW test.

I will throw this out there also, you really need a chronograph to develop a decent hand load. You can 'test for accuracy' but in my experience the shooter is the least reliable method for testing a load's potential. Sometimes you will have a good group with an inconsistent load, sometimes you will get a crappy group with a consistent load. The chrono doesn't lie. If you have tight numbers, you have a load that will perform well. Its nice to test both, but if its one or the other, I'd go with the chrono.

Take YOUR ability out of the equation. Until you know you can shoot well enough to eliminate yourself as a variable.

Rich

 

[teflonhunter]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

Mag length loads may be your problem. My SPS will shoot FGMM .5 all day but I have not come up with a magazine length handload that will shoot .5 MOA. If I load 42 grs. IMR 8208 to 2.890 in Win. brass , 175 VLD's and BR2 primers it will shoot .5 and better all day.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

45grs of varget and a 175 grain bullet would almost lock up my 700 bolt. 42grs might work though.

 

[jeepguy242]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

43.3 gns Varget behind a 168 SMK will do .46" goup at 100 all day long in my LAR-8 from bags, when i get behind it and remove the bags, it opens up to .8

that shows me that I need to work on my form, not the load... so find a good SAFE load and start working on your form. when you get to the load's potential, then its time to start working on the load again, and longer distances..

 

[wingnut49b]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

Awesome advice guys.

I'm decent with my .22 out to 200 yards, but this 308 is new. I'm going to load a bunch of 43g loads and get used to it all. I re-watched some of the online training videos, and I found all sorts of bad habits...

The .22 is a great training tool, but I'm seeing that it doesn't force you to correct everything. Just not enough recoil to punish some lazy habits. I'll be shooting both for a while!

Andy

 

[Leaddog]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

45 grs of Varget is too hot. Look at the bottom of the case heads. Are you seeing ejector marks?

Alot of .308 accuracy is dependent upon your consistently manageing recoil. Work on that for better accuracy.

 

[leroyZjenkins]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

My first reloading experience was with 168 GR SMKs with IMR 4895 about a year ago. I was broke so i couldnt afford nice brass i just reused what i had been shooting from the store. I didnt have any friends who reloaded either so i had the forums, a book, and my common sense.

My advice, as i was in your exact shoes last year, is to get some cheep brass and start with a safe load.

You're gonna gouge your brass as you trim and trim too much or too little or seat primers too far in or destroy bullets you seated too far when you try to pull them out with pliars. Get some cheep brass and just go at it making sure you use the right powder primers and bullets use a reputablel reloading table and stay within the limits and you will be safe. In a month or 2 you'll have it all figured out and your .308s will be all pretty and your groups will be tight. And then you will spend more money on all the little tools you need to complete your setup.

 

[wingnut49b]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Leaddog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alot of .308 accuracy is dependent upon your consistently manageing recoil. Work on that for better accuracy. </div></div>

This is where I need the most practice. The .22 taught me alot, but it won't teach you to deal with the recoil!

I'm not worried about using pricey brass. I do have some range pickup to setup on a little, and I've been loading .223 and .45 for a year or two. Now it's time to see what I can do for precision here.

Being self-employed in the racing industry, this rifle budget is easy! I'm not made of money, but rifles and the tools hold their value pretty well if you buy smart. Ever see what used race tires sell for??

When I use top quality brass, I know that piece isn't the problem. I am more comfortable knowing that I am the problem, then wondering what the problem is.

Thanks guys. I love this site. Lots of help and no BS!


Andy

 

[adam3999]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DPRoberts</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You've already done a smart thing by acknowledging that your own skill level isn't enough to utilize OCW testing. Many rounds have been wasted by people who couldn't admit that fact.</div></div>

Well said, sir. Looking back, I too wasted hand-crafted ammo rushing to finish a group before a cease fire or firing a string of 30-40 shots heating the barrel up too much. Patience and practice are key. If you can't control your breathing or flinch in anticipation of recoil, even the perfect load for your rifle will likely group like crap.

 

[Scouter19D]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camocorvette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... My Rifle loves them for 100 meters it will shoot 1/2-3/4 inch groups all day. But even just going to 200m my groups open up to about an inch and a half. I know it can do better, I just have to find the right load for it... </div></div>

Someone clear this up for me, but if your group is 3/4 inch at 100 yards, and you double your yards, wouldnt your group size potentially double, going to 1 1/2 inches? So wouldnt that be a reasonable group size for that load? Perhaps its shooter error that keeps the group size from shrinking at that range. But still, 1. inches at 200 yards is pretty good no?

 

[Dog Doc]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

So my question is this as I feel in the same shoes as the OP... Lets say you just pick a "safe" load, and not get into OCW until improved.... How do you know if the "safe" load you picked is a scatter node?

 

[camocorvette]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scouter19D</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: camocorvette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.... My Rifle loves them for 100 meters it will shoot 1/2-3/4 inch groups all day. But even just going to 200m my groups open up to about an inch and a half. I know it can do better, I just have to find the right load for it... </div></div>

Someone clear this up for me, but if your group is 3/4 inch at 100 yards, and you double your yards, wouldnt your group size potentially double, going to 1 1/2 inches? So wouldnt that be a reasonable group size for that load? Perhaps its shooter error that keeps the group size from shrinking at that range. But still, 1. inches at 200 yards is pretty good no? </div></div>

I think shooter error is the reason as well. But I also think that I can shrink my groups some what. With more practice and more scientific reloading. I already sort my bullets by weight, neck size only, and weigh each charge by hand. Possibly the next thing would be to sort cases by weight after prep and trim. Hoping to create every round exactly the same will eliminate a few fliers. Just leaving shooter error for me to correct. Sure a 1. group at 200 is good, but I want to try to make it as small as possible. I know its possible to shoot one ragged hole at 200. Everyone reloads for their own reasons and I just want to get my groups small lol.

 

[Trevor]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

If you not good at reloading then my advice would be to buy factory and use it as a benchmark for your gun. Either get the Fed GMM or Black hill. If you really just want to learn how to shoot the 308 get some Mil ball ammo by a case and practice with that.

If you’re going to try the Fed or black hill do a couple of groups and measure their size. This will give you a starting and show you how accurate your rifle is and something you can try to better with your reloads.

To offset some of the factory costs sell the 1x brass.
And make sure you buy factory with the same lot number.

 

[wingnut49b]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

UPDATE:

I loaded the balance of my fresh Lapua brass with 43g Vaget, pulled 175 SMK's, and Wolf primers.

Went to the 100 yard range last week, and shot about 20 rounds to sight in the new SS, and then get used to this thing. Finally, I shot a 10 round group, and a 5 round before packing up for the morning.

10 round had 9 rounds all touching in a line down and to the right. These 9 would be a group 1.2 inches. One 'flyer', not called, opened this up to 1.7".

The 5 round group had the same pattern with the line and 'flyer'. I focused on my form better, and this one was .6" without the flyer and right at 1" with it.

Both groups had under .4" of vertical. I'd guess wind that day at 5-8mph left to right.

THANK YOU for all the help here so far. I know it isn't great results, but I'm very happy for the second time out with this!

 

[Unknown]

Re: Advice for a newb and my 308...

I would start with a lower powder charge. Your accuracy won't be that much different, and your rifle and brass will last vastly longer.

As long as you realize what the load's capability is (say 1.25-1.5MOA), using that load until you can get your rifle to shoot that small of a group EVERY time, there is nothing wrong with your idea.

Familiarizing yourself with your weapon is very important, as is realizing exactly what to expect from your system (rifle, ammo, scope, shooter). Once you can wring the full capability out of your system, then it is time to seek ammo that will shoot better.

Having ammo that shoots .5moa isn't all that useful until YOU can shoot .5MOA too. If your rifle and ammo will shoot .5moa, and you shoot 2moa, it is time to practice more. Sure, it is nice to realize that you can eventually shoot .5moa, but until then, I would practice with ammo that won't break the bank, or use up all your time developing a load for.