I am developing a load for my Remington .308 for LR work. I have found a great load with 175 SMK but using Remington 9 1/2 primers I have had a few duds, is this a rare isolated thing? I have a local store who just got in Federal 210 GM primers about 10,000 of them. Should I go with the Federal's for accuracy and reliability or Winchester? or are Remington's good enough?
Advice on primer choice
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Re: Advice on primer choice
Primers are primers...I use all the above mentioned and don't really notice any difference if any. I have CCI,Federal,Remington,Winchester and match...have had no particular brand that had duds. Some shoot hotter than others but thats about it.
Primers are primers...I use all the above mentioned and don't really notice any difference if any. I have CCI,Federal,Remington,Winchester and match...have had no particular brand that had duds. Some shoot hotter than others but thats about it.
Re: Advice on primer choice
so far for me ive had the best luck with federal 210m then cci br-2s. there is a reason they make match grade primers.they ignite more uniformly giving you a consistent powder ignition.
if you want accurate ammo use match primers.they only cost a penny or less over a regular primer. dont skimp.
thats my .02
so far for me ive had the best luck with federal 210m then cci br-2s. there is a reason they make match grade primers.they ignite more uniformly giving you a consistent powder ignition.
if you want accurate ammo use match primers.they only cost a penny or less over a regular primer. dont skimp.
thats my .02
Re: Advice on primer choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Don71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so far for me ive had the best luck with federal 210m then cci br-2s. there is a reason they make match grade primers.they ignite more uniformly giving you a consistent powder ignition.
if you want accurate ammo use match primers.they only cost a penny or less over a regular primer. dont skimp.
thats my .02</div></div>
+1 while i've had success with regular primers and magnum primers, match primers made my velocity much more consistent.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Don71</div><div class="ubbcode-body">so far for me ive had the best luck with federal 210m then cci br-2s. there is a reason they make match grade primers.they ignite more uniformly giving you a consistent powder ignition.
if you want accurate ammo use match primers.they only cost a penny or less over a regular primer. dont skimp.
thats my .02</div></div>
+1 while i've had success with regular primers and magnum primers, match primers made my velocity much more consistent.
Re: Advice on primer choice
Buy the Federal Match Primers and you will not go back. They are very consistant. I've shot thousands through my match rifles, including my service rifle AR-15 and M1A. They just work.
Buy the Federal Match Primers and you will not go back. They are very consistant. I've shot thousands through my match rifles, including my service rifle AR-15 and M1A. They just work.
Re: Advice on primer choice
For years I shot the standard CCI primers. Out to 400 yards the gun shot fine. At 600 my groups were a little bigger than I wanted, but I tolerated it. When I started shooting farther, my grouops got much bigger.
I switched to Federal match primers and my groups at 600 and farther were cut in half.
For me, the choice of primers seem keep velocity more consistant. If you're shooting at 3-400 yards or shorter, I wouldn't bother. The longer the distance, the more important I've found primer choice to be. In order to test this you'll need either a 600+ yard range or a chronograph.
For years I shot the standard CCI primers. Out to 400 yards the gun shot fine. At 600 my groups were a little bigger than I wanted, but I tolerated it. When I started shooting farther, my grouops got much bigger.
I switched to Federal match primers and my groups at 600 and farther were cut in half.
For me, the choice of primers seem keep velocity more consistant. If you're shooting at 3-400 yards or shorter, I wouldn't bother. The longer the distance, the more important I've found primer choice to be. In order to test this you'll need either a 600+ yard range or a chronograph.
Re: Advice on primer choice
Federal Match all the way, you won't be sorry. I've been using them since the mid 80's and never had a FTF or any other type problem with them.
Federal Match all the way, you won't be sorry. I've been using them since the mid 80's and never had a FTF or any other type problem with them.
Re: Advice on primer choice
I'd like to see a blind test on use of Federal match(or any of the match) versus standard primers. I've read in a couple places, that the only difference in the federal standard versus match is an extra sort on the production line. I used to use match primers exclusively in most of my loads, but have switched to the standard versions in most instances. Yesterday I shot a .75MOA group @ 408 yards w/ my .308 with std 210's. Good enough for me. Today I'll try to shoot at longer distance. The $10/k I save I can use for more powder or boolitz. However, if match primers give you more confidence and lower ES/SD... use em!
I'd like to see a blind test on use of Federal match(or any of the match) versus standard primers. I've read in a couple places, that the only difference in the federal standard versus match is an extra sort on the production line. I used to use match primers exclusively in most of my loads, but have switched to the standard versions in most instances. Yesterday I shot a .75MOA group @ 408 yards w/ my .308 with std 210's. Good enough for me. Today I'll try to shoot at longer distance. The $10/k I save I can use for more powder or boolitz. However, if match primers give you more confidence and lower ES/SD... use em!
Re: Advice on primer choice
Here is the results of several groups in a Savage 26" 9 twist heavey barrel .223 at 100 yards. The results here only work for this rifle. A different rifle I did prefered the Winchester primer.
The powder charge of 27.5 grains usually produced velocities in the low 3200s. The primers used are as follows: Federal 205 and 205 M, Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rests, CCI BR 4 and 450 magnum and Winchester WSR. All groups used five shots at 100 yards.
Federal's 205 made <span style="font-weight: bold">three</span> groups. They measured .519" @ 3220 fps, .962" @ 3224 and 1.216" @ 3210". The 1.216" group had a couple of fliers. They averaged .899" @ 3218 fps.
The 205 M from Federal is a match primer. There are records for <span style="font-weight: bold">four</span> groups. They show groups of .709" @ 3224 fps, .726" @ 3224 fps, .644" @ 3224 fps, .757" @ 3227 fps. Their four group average was .709" @ 3225 fps. This primer produced the most consistent velocities that I have seen in any fire arm. Consistent velocities did not translate into the best accuracy.
The <span style="font-weight: bold">four</span> Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rest primer's groups measured .744" @ 3211 fps, .682" @ 3211 fps, .676" @ 3224 fps and .682" 3223 fps and averaged .696" @ 3217 fps.
Winchester's WSR primers worked as follows: .582" @ 3220 fps, .399" @ 3249 fps, .830" @ 3219 fps and .812" @ 3219 fps.
The average for WSR is .656" @ 3227 fps. All of the WSR primers were pierced by the firing pin.
The next primer is from CCI and is the CCI 450 magnum with <span style="font-weight: bold">six</span> groups. It produced .684" @ 3200 fps, .546" @ 3207 fps, .711" @ 3234 fps, .544" @ 3219 fps, .806" @ 3191 fps and .525" @ 3218 fps. The average for the magnum primer was .636" @ 3211 fps.
The last <span style="font-weight: bold">five</span> groups tried were another bench rest primer. It is the BR 4. We saved the best for last. The groups measured .492" @ 3245 fps, .477" @ 3250 fps, .441" @ 3245 fps, .452" @ 3232 and .460" @ 3229 fps. Its phenomenal five groups average is .464" @ 3240 fps. It also produced the highest velocities.
Here is the results of several groups in a Savage 26" 9 twist heavey barrel .223 at 100 yards. The results here only work for this rifle. A different rifle I did prefered the Winchester primer.
The powder charge of 27.5 grains usually produced velocities in the low 3200s. The primers used are as follows: Federal 205 and 205 M, Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rests, CCI BR 4 and 450 magnum and Winchester WSR. All groups used five shots at 100 yards.
Federal's 205 made <span style="font-weight: bold">three</span> groups. They measured .519" @ 3220 fps, .962" @ 3224 and 1.216" @ 3210". The 1.216" group had a couple of fliers. They averaged .899" @ 3218 fps.
The 205 M from Federal is a match primer. There are records for <span style="font-weight: bold">four</span> groups. They show groups of .709" @ 3224 fps, .726" @ 3224 fps, .644" @ 3224 fps, .757" @ 3227 fps. Their four group average was .709" @ 3225 fps. This primer produced the most consistent velocities that I have seen in any fire arm. Consistent velocities did not translate into the best accuracy.
The <span style="font-weight: bold">four</span> Remington 7 1/2 Bench Rest primer's groups measured .744" @ 3211 fps, .682" @ 3211 fps, .676" @ 3224 fps and .682" 3223 fps and averaged .696" @ 3217 fps.
Winchester's WSR primers worked as follows: .582" @ 3220 fps, .399" @ 3249 fps, .830" @ 3219 fps and .812" @ 3219 fps.
The average for WSR is .656" @ 3227 fps. All of the WSR primers were pierced by the firing pin.
The next primer is from CCI and is the CCI 450 magnum with <span style="font-weight: bold">six</span> groups. It produced .684" @ 3200 fps, .546" @ 3207 fps, .711" @ 3234 fps, .544" @ 3219 fps, .806" @ 3191 fps and .525" @ 3218 fps. The average for the magnum primer was .636" @ 3211 fps.
The last <span style="font-weight: bold">five</span> groups tried were another bench rest primer. It is the BR 4. We saved the best for last. The groups measured .492" @ 3245 fps, .477" @ 3250 fps, .441" @ 3245 fps, .452" @ 3232 and .460" @ 3229 fps. Its phenomenal five groups average is .464" @ 3240 fps. It also produced the highest velocities.
Re: Advice on primer choice
Dont forget Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers. In two .308's and one .260 switching to those bettered my ES by half. Another thing I like about the Wolf primers is they have a little larger outside diameter and they will give you a few extra firings on brass that is close to being worn out with enlarged primer pockets.
One note: dont use them for .338 Lapua as they dont have a hot enough compound to consistently ignite large powder charges...I found that out through trial and error.
Federal 210M ^
Wolf Large Rifle Magnum ^
Dont forget Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers. In two .308's and one .260 switching to those bettered my ES by half. Another thing I like about the Wolf primers is they have a little larger outside diameter and they will give you a few extra firings on brass that is close to being worn out with enlarged primer pockets.
One note: dont use them for .338 Lapua as they dont have a hot enough compound to consistently ignite large powder charges...I found that out through trial and error.
Federal 210M ^
Wolf Large Rifle Magnum ^
Re: Advice on primer choice
Nice write up. Thanks for all the advice from everyone on here! Some of the most helpful folks on this site. I picked up the last 3 boxes of 1k ct Federal 205 match primers they had, I go to this store every week and for 8 months they have had zero of those so best to stock up.
Nice write up. Thanks for all the advice from everyone on here! Some of the most helpful folks on this site. I picked up the last 3 boxes of 1k ct Federal 205 match primers they had, I go to this store every week and for 8 months they have had zero of those so best to stock up.
Re: Advice on primer choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont forget Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers. In two .308's and one .260 switching to those bettered my ES by half. Another thing I like about the Wolf primers is they have a little larger outside diameter and they will give you a few extra firings on brass that is close to being worn out with enlarged primer pockets.
One note: dont use them for .338 Lapua as they dont have a hot enough compound to consistently ignite large powder charges...I found that out through trial and error.
Federal 210M ^
Wolf Large Rifle Magnum ^
</div></div>
That's good to know. I have a bunch of brass that's starting to get a little loose and I'm about to do a primer purchase and Wolf's prices look awfully nice.
How much did you have to change your powder load with the magnum primers, or did you start all over with a new workup?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont forget Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers. In two .308's and one .260 switching to those bettered my ES by half. Another thing I like about the Wolf primers is they have a little larger outside diameter and they will give you a few extra firings on brass that is close to being worn out with enlarged primer pockets.
One note: dont use them for .338 Lapua as they dont have a hot enough compound to consistently ignite large powder charges...I found that out through trial and error.
Federal 210M ^
Wolf Large Rifle Magnum ^
</div></div>
That's good to know. I have a bunch of brass that's starting to get a little loose and I'm about to do a primer purchase and Wolf's prices look awfully nice.
How much did you have to change your powder load with the magnum primers, or did you start all over with a new workup?
Re: Advice on primer choice
Initially, I dropped down a grain but ended up with the same powder charge as I was using with Federal 210M's. Velocity stayed the same. I didnt see any spike in pressure either..
Initially, I dropped down a grain but ended up with the same powder charge as I was using with Federal 210M's. Velocity stayed the same. I didnt see any spike in pressure either..
Re: Advice on primer choice
Thats interesting PGS, i just moved down from Winchester magnum primers to 210 match and my ES on 3 of my groups were close to single digits (10,11,12). I didn't realize wolf made good primers, good to hear.
FGMM 210s are great but they are pretty hard to find at times. I don't know if anyone mentioned it but CCI BR-2s are good quality primers also.
Thats interesting PGS, i just moved down from Winchester magnum primers to 210 match and my ES on 3 of my groups were close to single digits (10,11,12). I didn't realize wolf made good primers, good to hear.
FGMM 210s are great but they are pretty hard to find at times. I don't know if anyone mentioned it but CCI BR-2s are good quality primers also.
Re: Advice on primer choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pat...you're using magnum primers for some 308 and 260 loads? What powder? </div></div>
Varget for the .308 and H4350 for the .260.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdesign</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pat...you're using magnum primers for some 308 and 260 loads? What powder? </div></div>
Varget for the .308 and H4350 for the .260.
Re: Advice on primer choice
I had a pretty accurate load with winchester magnum primers with 46gr varget with 155gr scenars but i changed primers due to ES and SD.
I had a pretty accurate load with winchester magnum primers with 46gr varget with 155gr scenars but i changed primers due to ES and SD.
Re: Advice on primer choice
Handloader magazine peformed a comprehensive test awhile back that basically proved Remington 7 1/2 match primers more consistent than any other brand. Of course, this was for the .223 Rem, and only sampled by one rifle, a .223 Remington Cooper.
Handloader magazine peformed a comprehensive test awhile back that basically proved Remington 7 1/2 match primers more consistent than any other brand. Of course, this was for the .223 Rem, and only sampled by one rifle, a .223 Remington Cooper.
Re: Advice on primer choice
I love the 7 1/2 br for 223 just seems to fit my brass really tight.
I love the 7 1/2 br for 223 just seems to fit my brass really tight.
Re: Advice on primer choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont forget Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers. In two .308's and one .260 switching to those bettered my ES by half. Another thing I like about the Wolf primers is they have a little larger outside diameter and they will give you a few extra firings on brass that is close to being worn out with enlarged primer pockets.
One note: dont use them for .338 Lapua as they dont have a hot enough compound to consistently ignite large powder charges...I found that out through trial and error.
Federal 210M ^
Wolf Large Rifle Magnum ^
</div></div>
When did you buy your wolf primers? I had a friend recently buy a case and they were not consistent. My friend isn't the best reloader but his findings mirror the rumors that I have heard that new wolf primers are not so good. Anyone else recently purchase wolf primers?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Dont forget Wolf Large Rifle Magnum primers. In two .308's and one .260 switching to those bettered my ES by half. Another thing I like about the Wolf primers is they have a little larger outside diameter and they will give you a few extra firings on brass that is close to being worn out with enlarged primer pockets.
One note: dont use them for .338 Lapua as they dont have a hot enough compound to consistently ignite large powder charges...I found that out through trial and error.
Federal 210M ^
Wolf Large Rifle Magnum ^
</div></div>
When did you buy your wolf primers? I had a friend recently buy a case and they were not consistent. My friend isn't the best reloader but his findings mirror the rumors that I have heard that new wolf primers are not so good. Anyone else recently purchase wolf primers?
Re: Advice on primer choice
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handloader magazine peformed a comprehensive test awhile back that basically proved Remington 7 1/2 match primers more consistent than any other brand. Of course, this was for the .223 Rem, and only sampled by one rifle, a .223 Remington Cooper. </div></div>
I fired sixteen five shot groups using 52 grain JLK's. Eight groups were fired with Remington 7 1/2 match and eight with CCI 400 standard primers. The CCI's did better in the conclussion of the test. After bringing up the notes I realized the real test was with square heads compared with factory heads. But the primer info is there. You might have to read the paragraph a couple times to get the information.
"The averages of the last four necked-sized case groups are: Remington primed <span style="font-weight: bold">factory</span> case is .7293" and the Remington primed <span style="font-weight: bold">square</span> base is .6385". This favors the square bases by more than an 1/8". CCI primed <span style="font-weight: bold">factory</span> is .7010" and the CCI primed <span style="font-weight: bold">square</span> is .512" which is more than 3/16" smaller. The importance of trying different primers in one's quest for maximum accuracy is readily apparent."
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Handloader magazine peformed a comprehensive test awhile back that basically proved Remington 7 1/2 match primers more consistent than any other brand. Of course, this was for the .223 Rem, and only sampled by one rifle, a .223 Remington Cooper. </div></div>
I fired sixteen five shot groups using 52 grain JLK's. Eight groups were fired with Remington 7 1/2 match and eight with CCI 400 standard primers. The CCI's did better in the conclussion of the test. After bringing up the notes I realized the real test was with square heads compared with factory heads. But the primer info is there. You might have to read the paragraph a couple times to get the information.
"The averages of the last four necked-sized case groups are: Remington primed <span style="font-weight: bold">factory</span> case is .7293" and the Remington primed <span style="font-weight: bold">square</span> base is .6385". This favors the square bases by more than an 1/8". CCI primed <span style="font-weight: bold">factory</span> is .7010" and the CCI primed <span style="font-weight: bold">square</span> is .512" which is more than 3/16" smaller. The importance of trying different primers in one's quest for maximum accuracy is readily apparent."
Re: Advice on primer choice
Correct me if I'm wrong and I probably am but when you are comparing primers with the same brass, bullet and powder charge each different primer would change group size because one primer may be a tad bit more powerful than another rendering group size different with the same powder right???
Correct me if I'm wrong and I probably am but when you are comparing primers with the same brass, bullet and powder charge each different primer would change group size because one primer may be a tad bit more powerful than another rendering group size different with the same powder right???
Re: Advice on primer choice
merely switching from regular primers to magnum picked up 200 feet per second in a 25-06 firing 120 grainers, so you may be correct.
merely switching from regular primers to magnum picked up 200 feet per second in a 25-06 firing 120 grainers, so you may be correct.
Re: Advice on primer choice
Duds are not a matter of primer choice. They are a matter of primer care.
No primer manufacturer allows primers out the door that have a significant chance of failure.
If they are failing, it's because of something that happened to them after they left the factory.
Duds are not a matter of primer choice. They are a matter of primer care.
No primer manufacturer allows primers out the door that have a significant chance of failure.
If they are failing, it's because of something that happened to them after they left the factory.
Re: Advice on primer choice
I use Tula Large Rifle Magnum Primers. They have the exact same stock number KVB7M as the Wolf Large Rifle Magnum Primers. They are great and have never given me any problems.
I read somewhere that the Tula and Wolf primers were made by the same company (in the same building?). I'm sold on both Wolf and Tula.
I use Tula Large Rifle Magnum Primers. They have the exact same stock number KVB7M as the Wolf Large Rifle Magnum Primers. They are great and have never given me any problems.
I read somewhere that the Tula and Wolf primers were made by the same company (in the same building?). I'm sold on both Wolf and Tula.
Re: Advice on primer choice
FYI Insofar as the Wolf/Tula primers are concerned, the only difference between the regular and magnum is the metal used for the cup. Regulars are made of copper, magnums are made of brass and therefore harder. Same type/amount of priming compound in both.
FYI Insofar as the Wolf/Tula primers are concerned, the only difference between the regular and magnum is the metal used for the cup. Regulars are made of copper, magnums are made of brass and therefore harder. Same type/amount of priming compound in both.
