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Rifle Scopes Advice sought: ATACR vs IOR vs Valdada vs Mark 5

Sooner Sniper

Sooner Sniper

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Jan 18, 2020
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Hello, I'm new to Sniper's hide and this is my initial post so please forgive me if this topic has been covered of if I inadvertently leave out some info:

I'm considering a different scope for my 6.5 Creedmoor which is a factory Bergara HMR Pro. I currently have a Burris XTR III 5.5-30 SCR2 Mil mounted on it. I don't currently hand load, although I would like to start at some point in the not too distant future. Typically shooting factory match grade loads (several work well). Primary use is target shooting out to 1000 yards. I don't have regular access for longer ranges. Once or twice a year a get an opportunity to shoot at mile. If I buy another scope I would either move my XTR III over to my 224 Valkyrie (POF Renegade + SPR) or maybe sell it as it would be pretty heavy for the POF). I don't dislike the XTR, but for me the eye box is a bit picky (maybe it's my fat head since I seem to be the only one that thinks it's tight), otherwise the glass, tracking and ret are excellent.

The four scopes I'm considering are the ATACR 7-35 F1, IOR Crusader, Valdada G2, and Leupold Mark5 7-35. I prefer FFP Mil/Mil scopes. Price is a consideration, but I'm more concerned with IQ, tracking precision, warranty & customer service.

Please help me choose and let me know why you recommended what you did. Thanks in advance for your time, consideration, and wisdom!

Tracy P.
 
Arc Light, thank you for the response. If you don't mind sharing I'd love to know more about the specific reasons for dumping the IOR and the G2.
 
Search the forum, tons of post already explaining why IOR/Valdada is not a great option.
 
First, let me say I have never owned a IOR scope. But if you do some searching on this site you will see that it is not held in high esteem by those with MUCH more experience than I. Frank (Lowlight), the captain of this ship, does not think highly of them due to their lack of quality/durability. Getting warranty/repair work also seems to be a cluster f*ck depending on the mood of the importer on that day. There are a few diehard defenders of the brand, and they may make an appearance shortly.
 
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I've seen many of the posts bashing IOR. Appears most of them are older, and specific to issues with IOR which are not necessarily applicable to the G2. I'm not a fan of any particular brand. I've had a couple of NF, but not an ATACR, the XTR III, multiple Trijicons, multiple Athlons, and several others, almost all of which have been serviceable. I've never owned or even looked through an IOR or a G2, but I have friend whose opinion I value that is adamant the G2 is the best glass he has ever been behind other than the TT which I'm probably not willing to spring for. Having said that, if I drop ~$3K on a scope and it's a POS I'd be really pissed hence my post here.

Thank you again for the replies and insight!
 
koshkin just did a nice review of the Mk5 2.5-20 and it's pretty clearly not on the same level as the ATACR. But you'll be paying for it. So buy once cry once? I'd say ATACR.

I think the IOR thing will sort itself out in the next 10-15 minutes.

Edit: sorry stupid comment.. it was a NX8 2.5-20 but the Mk5 was referenced. I believe it was also wjm308 that did the review.
 
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The ATACR is by far the best scope you’ve mentioned, although I think the ZC527 is worth the extra money over it.
 
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If you think the eye box on the XTR III is tight, I'm not sure any of those are likely to make you any happier.

Not sure how many higher magnification scopes you've had, but I might suggest spending some more time getting the eye relief setup just right on the XTR. It becomes more important to get it just right the higher you go in magnification. Get your eye relief perfect and most eye box issues go away as well.
 
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Goosed, it's finicky even at the low end of the magnification range and I have several other scopes in the same mag range that I have no issues with. The eye relief is at the very bottom end of the stated spec regardless of mag setting. I'm actually wondering if there isn't an issue of some sort with this particular scope. I have the luxury of being about an hour down the road from Burris, so I'm actually going to take up there tomorrow and have them check it.
 
It's always the glass,

But the glass is great, to which I ask, are you buying a Rifle Scope or Spotter

Not to mention they infringed on the site's Trademark with G2

A fool and his money are soon parted if you like gambling, by all means, throw your money down, or you can consider brands that are referenced alongside casino games.

Scopes are not spotters, glass is not your primary concern in 2020, tracking, reliability and customer service is, IOR fails in all of these categories but because misery loves company and you can demonstrate "Glass" without any points of reference, people continue to drive down this worthless highway. Spotter worry about glass, scopes are designed to make a sight adjustment. Glass in 2020 is pretty equal across the board. A great example, the Arken Scope at $550, nobody is saying a word about the glass, because it's perfectly fine. The selling point outside of price is tracking which should be a clue.

Glass is finite, it doesn't matter whether you order it from Europe or Asian, you can get identical specs from both. Asian has a robust OEM program so we see more of their brandless offerings than Europe, but still, it's about tracking, reliability and customer service, all lacking if you really pay attention.
 
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take the money you'd drop on a scope that's not a significant upgrade (ATACR aside, but even it) and take a class or two and get your rifle actually setup correctly
 
Lowlight, thank you for the reply. So, if you were going to drop $3500 ish for the use case I described what would you buy? Please don't limit your choices to the ones I listed. As I said, I have no affinity for any particular brand. I have one of the low-end Arkens and so far it's a nice little scope, particularly for the money. Time will tell if it holds up or not.
 
Everyone's eyes are different and you just might have a "compatibility" issue with the Burris.
HIgh magnification, high zoom ratio scopes have issues with eye box.
It is the nature of the beast.
FWIW, I have a Sightron 4.5-24 and find it very easy to get behind.
The glass is not at the same level of some of the others you mentioned, but it is quite good.
Same with the Vortex GEN II scopes, glass is very good but not at the same level as some of the top tier brands.
 
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I suppose that would help me better set up the other half dozen rifles that I have that work just fine.......
 
Lowlight, thank you for the constructive reply! I will check out Zero Compromise. Not one I had previously considered.
 
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If I had that kind of money I would get the Nightforce, there are lots of feedback out there almost all being positive.
 
tsp3355 said:
Lowlight, thank you for the reply. So, if you were going to drop $3500 ish for the use case I described what would you buy? Please don't limit your choices to the ones I listed. As I said, I have no affinity for any particular brand. I have one of the low-end Arkens and so far it's a nice little scope, particularly for the money. Time will tell if it holds up or not.
Click to expand...
I'm not Lowlight but I have a couple of comments. My experience with the XTR III (mine is the 3.3-18 but I know the 5.5-30 actually seems to have better eyebox based on feedback from the community) is that the eyebox is very good for the price class. I would definitely take it to Burris and have them take a look (had to send my first XTR III back for some optical issues so seems they are working out some QC issues on this line), but they should take care of you. That being said, I'd keep the 5.5-30 on your Creedmoor based on the type of shooting and amount of shooting you do. If you really want to get another great scope, then for your POF Valkyrie take a look at the ZCO ZC420, there is not a finer ultra short out and would be perfect for your Valkyrie, but one could argue so would an ATACR 4-16x42, so would a Kahles K318i, so would a Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18 but honestly, outside of the ZC420 I would actually consider the XTR III 3.3-18x50 but you'll have to wait if you'd prefer illumination. Pick the reticle you like the most and feel will help you with your type of shooting, but if you want the absolute best experience from an ultra short, the ZCO is the one to beat IMO.

Also, you mention you are not reloading. To be honest, there are such great factory options in 6.5 Creedmoor I don't think you "need" to reload for your type of shooting. For $25 and less per box of 20, you can get Hornady Match with 140 ELD-M, Prime with 130gr and Berger Match Grade 6.5 Creedmoor Ammo with 140 Grain Hybrid Target (my personal favorite of late). All of these are capable of well under 1 moa.

PS - what do you like about IOR? Is it the magnification range, FOV or other specs? I ask because I agree with others, do yourself a favor and stay away from Valdada, but if there's certain things you like about a scope, let us know and I can recommend another that will have similar specs, etc.
 
Bill, thank you for the well thoughtful reply! I don't have any particular affinity for the IOR or Valdada, I was just interested based on the reviews I've watched and a friend's recommendation who knows Val and has been using his stuff for a while. I rarely used more than 25x so the bigger mag range isn't necessary, I just assume the scopes will perform better in the middle of the mag range than at either end. The ZCOs look very interesting and I will strongly consider your suggestion for my POF. I have an Ares ETR on it right now. Other than a few negative comments about the turrets the ZCOs are favorably compared to the TTs by several people. High praise for sure.

I am beginning to believe there is something wrong with my XTR. I will find out tomorrow as I'm heading to Burris first thing tomorrow morning.

Sincere thanks for the advice!

Tracy
 
tsp3355 said:
Bill, thank you for the well thoughtful reply! I don't have any particular affinity for the IOR or Valdada, I was just interested based on the reviews I've watched and a friend's recommendation who knows Val and has been using his stuff for a while. I rarely used more than 25x so the bigger mag range isn't necessary, I just assume the scopes will perform better in the middle of the mag range than at either end. The ZCOs look very interesting and I will strongly consider your suggestion for my POF. I have an Ares ETR on it right now. Other than a few negative comments about the turrets the ZCOs are favorably compared to the TTs by several people. High praise for sure.

I am beginning to believe there is something wrong with my XTR. I will find out tomorrow as I'm heading to Burris first thing tomorrow morning.

Sincere thanks for the advice!

Tracy
Click to expand...

The only "negative" comment about the ZCO that I've seen were from an issue of not having the zero set up correctly per the manual.
If you make sure the splines are lined up on the locking turrets before tightening it than it's a non-issue :) I've probably handled more ZCO's outside of anyone internally and if it was a lingering issue, it would have been resolved.
 
Thank you all for the advice. Sincerely appreciated! Another friend just suggested I consider the Minox ZP5 as well. I've never seen one. Anyone know how it compares to the ATACR or the XTRIII? It looks like the ZP5 can be found used for a significantly lower price point than the ATACR.
 
tsp3355 said:
Thank you all for the advice. Sincerely appreciated! Another friend just suggested I consider the Minox ZP5 as well. I've never seen one. Anyone know how it compares to the ATACR or the XTRIII? It looks like the ZP5 can be found used for a significantly lower price point than the ATACR.
Click to expand...
I’ve had the ATACR 5-25 and the 4-16. Those are both nice scopes. I prefer the ZP5 to the NF. At the price point you can get a ZP5 for now, it’s not even a question for me iMHO.
Some might prefer the NF, but I didn’t. But with the cost difference, it’s something you should consider. Also, with the price you could get a Vortex AMG 6-24 for now, that’s another consideration As well.
 
Vortex AMG roughly 2k
NF 7-35 roughly 2800
ZCO roughly 3500.

Really just depends on your budget. I personally wasn't that impressed by the NF 5-25 especially the parallax adjustment. Even my Vortex gen 2 Razor was better.
 
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tsp3355 said:
Thank you all for the advice. Sincerely appreciated! Another friend just suggested I consider the Minox ZP5 as well. I've never seen one. Anyone know how it compares to the ATACR or the XTRIII? It looks like the ZP5 can be found used for a significantly lower price point than the ATACR.
Click to expand...
If Burris fixes or replaces your scope and it finally settles down for eyebox you should be quite happy I should think. The scope has one of the widest FOV and a good copy should prove superb edge to edge clarity. The ZP5 is another ballgame, it is an alpha class scope and the best glass you’ll find at its price point. Newer copies have impressive turrets, maybe not NF and ZCO good but very good. If you like the MR4 reticle you won’t find a better scope at that price. The NF has its name and you essentially pay for that name and the durability that is associated with it. That’s not to say other scopes aren’t as durable and some may even be better for a cheaper price, but they don’t have NF on the side and for some that makes a difference. You’re not going to go wrong with ZCO, NF and ZP5, choose the reticle you like the most.
With regard to Valdada/IOR. Here’s the thing, Val is a personable guy when you’re interested in his gear (I used to visit his shop when he was in Colorado) but he also thinks his scopes are the best on earth and has some pretty biased opinions. Some Hiders have been burned after buying from him and some have claimed some shady business practices. One other factor is the resale value drops quite a bit with his gear compared to others. The G2 might be a really good scope but I would not want to take the risk based on past history and resale value.
My two cents, but remember I’m biased too ?
 
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Well, Burris checked out my XTRIII and gave it a clean bill of health. So, I'm going to try it on a different rifle and see if I can get it to work for me. If not, we might just be incompatible and it will go up for sale. In the mean time I got an opportunity to snag a near new ZP5 which will be here on Friday.

Thank again for all the advice, and have a great evening!
 
You won’t be disappointed with a ZP5. The overall package is every bit the equal of the ATACR 5-25 and better than pretty much anything in that price range. The NF *might* have a slight edge in the turret feel department, but the ZP5 beats it as far as eyebox/easy to get behind plus FOV and general ease of use. Parallax control is super impressive, there's no rotating ocular to deal with, it has a locking diopter that's easy to set... The ZP5 is a great scope. I even love the turrets, they're not TT or ZCO level but they are excellent.
 
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tsp3355 said:
Hello, I'm new to Sniper's hide and this is my initial post so please forgive me if this topic has been covered of if I inadvertently leave out some info:

I'm considering a different scope for my 6.5 Creedmoor which is a factory Bergara HMR Pro. I currently have a Burris XTR III 5.5-30 SCR2 Mil mounted on it. I don't currently hand load, although I would like to start at some point in the not too distant future. Typically shooting factory match grade loads (several work well). Primary use is target shooting out to 1000 yards. I don't have regular access for longer ranges. Once or twice a year a get an opportunity to shoot at mile. If I buy another scope I would either move my XTR III over to my 224 Valkyrie (POF Renegade + SPR) or maybe sell it as it would be pretty heavy for the POF). I don't dislike the XTR, but for me the eye box is a bit picky (maybe it's my fat head since I seem to be the only one that thinks it's tight), otherwise the glass, tracking and ret are excellent.

The four scopes I'm considering are the ATACR 7-35 F1, IOR Crusader, Valdada G2, and Leupold Mark5 7-35. I prefer FFP Mil/Mil scopes. Price is a consideration, but I'm more concerned with IQ, tracking precision, warranty & customer service.

Please help me choose and let me know why you recommended what you did. Thanks in advance for your time, consideration, and wisdom!

Tracy P.
Click to expand...
Which Scope did you go with??? I just ordered a Valdada 10-60x56 Precision XT. I will let you know if it was worth it on my 6.5 Creedmoor. I sure i will never you magnification above 40 but definately want SFP.
 
I have the Mark 5 on that rifle. I have a ZCO 5-25 on my other Creedmoor and I just put a Zeiss LRP on my 6.5 PRC.
 
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Stoweit said:
How do you like the LRP?
Click to expand...
I just got it. Haven’t even sighted it in yet, but the glass is very nice. Up there with the ZCO on first impression. Might change my mind with more time behind it. The ZCO glass is amazing.
 
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