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Rifle Scopes Advice wanted for Optics on a AR-10 in a 6.5 CM

C

CAPTAIN INSANO

Private
Minuteman
Jun 17, 2018
9
0
Hello all! First time poster (long time reader) here from Central PA.

I have a AR-10 build in-work using the LaRue Ultimate Upper in a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 22" barrel (no suppressor) just muzzle break. While I wait for my LaRue Lower to get manufacturered and delivered I have been mulling over optic options.

I have quite a bit of experience owning centerfire hunting platforms (.270 to 300 Mag with optics such as 3-9x Leupolds Vx, Nikon Monarch) and AR-15 platforms for short range plinking and home defense setup (open sights, red dots...etc).

My intentions for the LaRue AR-10 setup is long range plinking (400 to ? Yards (upto 1000 i hope :) ) varmint, and other game hunting.

For an optics budget I'd like to keep things 1k to 2.5k and am open to used equipment.

I don't know much about these types of scopes with adjustable objective, different focal planes, nor these reticles intended optics found on these platforms.

Weight and size are some what concerns for me...and so is quality. I found with optics you get what you pay for and I am putting it on a LaRue so I don't want junk that will fail or be problematic.

I've kind of narrowed things down to Nightforce NXS or Leupold Mark 4 or 6.

S&B, USO are such are a bit more than I want to spend right now as this is my first scope that will be above 10x!

I'm looking for advice on magnification, recticle, and other make / models to consider. I'm thinking 5 to 20x (approximately) would work for what I want. As for the reticle I have no clue so I'm looking for advice here for sure. I'm indifferent between MIL and MOA...I understand how they work from my profession and feel comfortable with both. I have no idea if I need the front focal plane that the NXS and Mark 4/6 ER brings so please make a suggestion here.

I've thought about illumination and I think I will stay away from this for now!

Please let me know your thoughts for my AR platform, use, and lack of experience with it for my intended use!
 
The Nightforce ATACR 4-16 is a great gas gun optic. Its pretty compact and has killer glass.
https://www.sportoptics.com/nightforce-atacr-rifle-scope-4-16x42.aspx

The SIG Tango6 is another great option in my opinion for a gas gun. Kinda heavy.
https://www.sportoptics.com/sig-sauer-tango-6-rifle-scopes-3-18x44.aspx

The Kahles K138i is probaby one of my favorite gas gun optics right now but even after giving you the hide discount it would be a couple hundred over your budget.
https://www.sportoptics.com/kahles-k318i-rifle-scopes.aspx

The Lepold MK5 I think would be a good fit too. Something compact like the 3.6-18.
https://www.sportoptics.com/leupold-mark-5-rifle-scopes.aspx

Give me a shout if you need any help!
 
I recently purchased a 6.5 Creedmoor AR with a 24in barrel. Looking to take it out to 1000 yards along with my 6.5 RPR. My RPR has a Vortex Razor gen 2 4.5-27 and has really good clarity. I wasn't looking at spending that much money on my gas gun so I'm going with the Athlon ARES 4.5-27. With your price range you may want to look into a used Razor or maybe the Athlon Cronus along with a Sphur mount? You can always dial down the magnification bit can never go higher than what you have.
 
Welcome to the Hide Cpt,

Get ready for a bunch of recommendations that will probably make your head spin. You mention size and weight which I think is going to be the biggest limiter of your choices. What size and weight are you trying to target? Under 14", under 30oz as an example? You mentioned a Leupold Mark 6 but I'd rather steer you toward the Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 as it's priced better than the Mark 6 and many say it has better glass and more reliable mechanics. This is probably going to be the shortest scope at it's price, if you shop around you should find it for $1800 or better with TMR reticle. Other scopes to consider would be the GAP deal on the Bushnell LRHS 4.5-18x44 for $750 or $800 with MUT. The Burris XTR II 4-20 might be a great scope but is going to be on the longer side, the Vortex PST II 3-15x44 might just squeeze in at the bottom range but appears to be a great scope (I have the PST II 5-25 and think it's pretty fantastic for the price). I would highly recommend you scour the buy & sell forum as some great deals can be had. Reticle is more a matter of personal preference but can be one of the biggest driving forces behind choosing an optic, if you don't mind some of the "older" reticles you can get some great deals, I've even seen the Tangent Theta TT315M for $2300 in the B&S forum which fits within your budget and is one of the best scopes out there. If you don't mind something a little longer and heavier then many other doors open, since you seem to favor Nightforce and Leupold then tops on the list would have to be the ATACR F1 4-16x44 and the Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18x44 - the Leupy has the better mag range and weight but the NF has been the bulletproof performer. You probably won't find many used Leupold's yet because they just introduced the model this year, but I've seen the NF 4-16's on the B&S before.
 
CAPTAIN INSANO said:
Hello all! First time poster (long time reader) here from Central PA.

I have a AR-10 build in-work using the LaRue Ultimate Upper in a 6.5 Creedmoor with a 22" barrel (no suppressor) just muzzle break. While I wait for my LaRue Lower to get manufacturered and delivered I have been mulling over optic options.

I have quite a bit of experience owning centerfire hunting platforms (.270 to 300 Mag with optics such as 3-9x Leupolds Vx, Nikon Monarch) and AR-15 platforms for short range plinking and home defense setup (open sights, red dots...etc).

My intentions for the LaRue AR-10 setup is long range plinking (400 to ? Yards (upto 1000 i hope :) ) varmint, and other game hunting.

For an optics budget I'd like to keep things 1k to 2.5k and am open to used equipment.

I don't know much about these types of scopes with adjustable objective, different focal planes, nor these reticles intended optics found on these platforms.

Weight and size are some what concerns for me...and so is quality. I found with optics you get what you pay for and I am putting it on a LaRue so I don't want junk that will fail or be problematic.

I've kind of narrowed things down to Nightforce NXS or Leupold Mark 4 or 6.

S&B, USO are such are a bit more than I want to spend right now as this is my first scope that will be above 10x!

I'm looking for advice on magnification, recticle, and other make / models to consider. I'm thinking 5 to 20x (approximately) would work for what I want. As for the reticle I have no clue so I'm looking for advice here for sure. I'm indifferent between MIL and MOA...I understand how they work from my profession and feel comfortable with both. I have no idea if I need the front focal plane that the NXS and Mark 4/6 ER brings so please make a suggestion here.

I've thought about illumination and I think I will stay away from this for now!

Please let me know your thoughts for my AR platform, use, and lack of experience with it for my intended use!
Click to expand...

Between your 2 choices I'd choose the Nightforce NXS 5.5-22X56 with the MOAR or MOAR-T reticle. I own 2 of them as well as many other first focal plane scopes mentioned in other posts. Even thogh its a second focal plane scope its still one go my favorites. Others I'd consider are the Bushnell Tactical Elite line or the Vortex Razor. Both are first focal plane scopes.
 
What type of hunting?

A dangerous game scope is a lot different than a scope for a prarie dog slam.

That $800 GAP scope deal seems nice, I've got my order in but it might not fit your needs.

If you've got a scope you like for the type of shooting you do, the rifle under it shouldn't have much influence.
 
Something in the 3-18x or 3-15x range is probably your best bet.

With Leupold, Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 is easily my favourite.

If you have money to spend, I still think that Tangent Theta TT315M 3-15x50 is the best of the breed.

If you are OK with a MOA reticle and you do not plan to spin the turrets, you shoudl also look at Maven RS1 2.5-15x50. It is a really nice scope and a very good deal.

So far, these were all FFP scopes. If you like SFP, Leupold VX-6HD 3-18x44 is a very competent design that you should look at.

ILya
 
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Wow! Thanks for the feedback thus far.

What is the purpose and applications for the first vs second plane focus? It would seem to me (this is with never having shot a ffp scope) is the advantage of a ffp is the ability to effectively range with the scope?
 
CAPTAIN INSANO said:
Wow! Thanks for the feedback thus far.

What is the purpose and applications for the first vs second plane focus? It would seem to me (this is with never having shot a ffp scope) is the advantage of a ffp is the ability to effectively range with the scope?
Click to expand...
The biggest advantage is a very fast zero process, works with any like/like scope, but at any power with ffp, and then the ability to adjust from shot to shot as conditions dictate, at any magnification.

For professionals, it also helps with measuring things, or for anyone who shoots with nv.
 
Well...I think I am going to give a FFP scope a try. Although initially I was leaning toward a NightForce NXS or ATACR, or perhaps a used higher end scope I feel guilty and foolish spending a ton of money before I get some experience under my belt on the AR 10 platform and with FFP scope.

Does anyone think I'm foolish going with the below new for $1300?

Leupold Mark 4 ER/T 6.5-20x50 TMR Riflescope 110076 SKU: 110076

30mm Tube - TMR reticle - 1st Focal Plane - M5 Adjustments
 
The other Leupold option is Leupold Mark 5 Riflescope 3.6-18x44mm M5C3 Matte Front Focal, Color: Black, Tube Diameter: 35 for $1600 new.

I really don't like the size, weight, or look of the Vortex Scopes...I'm sure they have their place, just don't feel like it will work well with my setup.
 
Take a hard look at that Bushnell LRHSi at GAP. It might compare pretty well for $500 less than the Mark 4.

I like my Tract Toric 30mm too and it's in the same price range as the Mark 4.

If you go with a 35mm scope, make sure you can find rings in the right height without spending more than you intend. You have a lot less options than 34mm or 30mm.
 
Does anyone have any experience with those FFP MK4 scopes? I pretty much stopped using Leupold before those became available, and I've never seen one in person.
 
SLG said:
Does anyone have any experience with those FFP MK4 scopes? I pretty much stopped using Leupold before those became available, and I've never seen one in person.
Click to expand...

I do. I do not see a compelling reason to buy a Mark 4 at this stage in the game. There are better options out there. Current ones seem better than the ones of a decade ago, but let's face it: technology moves on. Mark 4 is an old design. They patched up some of the more glaring faults it had, but it is still not as good as newer designs.

ILya
 
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koshkin said:
I do. I do not see a compelling reason to buy a Mark 4 at this stage in the game. There are better options out there. Current ones seem better than the ones of a decade ago, but let's face it: technology moves on. Mark 4 is an old design. They patched up some of the more glaring faults it had, but it is still not as good as newer designs.

ILya
Click to expand...
Can you go into anymore detail? I have an old work gun with a legacy MK4 on it. Wrong turrets, wrong reticle, wrong magnification, but it still works pretty well. Just not worth buying today.

The FFP versions came out after I stopped using Leupold for precision work, and I wouldn't normally think twice about them. Then I saw the 22oz weight of that E/RT 6.5-20. Might be nice on a lightweight hunting rig. TMR reticle is not up to date, but not horrible either.
 
CAPTAIN INSANO said:
The other Leupold option is Leupold Mark 5 Riflescope 3.6-18x44mm M5C3 Matte Front Focal, Color: Black, Tube Diameter: 35 for $1600 new.

I really don't like the size, weight, or look of the Vortex Scopes...I'm sure they have their place, just don't feel like it will work well with my setup.
Click to expand...
For $300 more than the Mark 4 you're getting the latest and greatest with arguably some of the best glass Leupold has ever had at this price point. My Mark 5HD 3.6-18x44 arrives today according to UPS and I'll be doing a review soon; however, others who've already received there's are raving about it's glass and mechanics. It's still a "new" scope and we'll have to wait and see about longevity but so far it sounds like Leupold finally hit one out of the park... time will tell.
 
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Didn't the VX-3i LRP replace the Mark 4 in Leupold's lineup? They seem mechanically similar and have a bunch of features the Mark 4 doesn't (better reticles, zero stop, the revolution counter on the big, goofy elevation turret) and they're sub $1k. I know one guy here had tracking issues with his, but they seem like a better choice than the Mark 4 assuming someone wants a scope similar to Mark 4.

The Mark 5, on the other hand, is on a whole different level for Leupold.
 
I think I am going to find a place or places that have in stock...I'd like to set my hand's on them!

Nightforce NXS 5.5-22x56 ZeroStop

Nightforce ATACR

Leupold Mark 5 Riflescope 3.6-18x44mm

Leupold Mark 4 ER/T 6.5-20x50

Price difference is $2300 to 1300.

I understand the Mark 4 maybe less of a scope than the others I listed that I want to see in person at a shop but it is also half of the cost too!

The S&B, Khale, USO...etc. is just more than I can justify for my use at this time.

If Nightforce and Leupold have been good enough for the US Military and in the same models that I am considering that's good enough for me unless I get into competitive shooting or something.
 
CAPTAIN INSANO said:
I understand the Mark 4 maybe less of a scope than the others I listed that I want to see in person at a shop but it is also half of the cost too!

The S&B, Khale, USO...etc. is just more than I can justify for my use at this time.

If Nightforce and Leupold have been good enough for the US Military and in the same models that I am considering that's good enough for me unless I get into competitive shooting or something.
Click to expand...

There are more scope manufacturers out there than what you list here. You seem pretty intent on getting a Mark 4 for the value you think it provides, others have attempted to give you the advice that you seek and have indicated there are better scopes for the price, but if you really think the Mark 4 is a great value and will serve you well then why don't you just order one and be done with it, who cares what anyone else says, if you're happy with the purchase than be happy.

Saying that "If Nightforce and Leupold have been good enough for the US Military and in the same models that I am considering that's good enough for me" I feel is rather limiting; just because the military has a contract doesn't mean it's the best scope for you.
 
We also have a factory demo Kahles K624i 6-24x56 with the AMR reticle for just $2,274.00 which is in your price range :) This was just a floor model used at the trade shows.
 
The sig Tango 6 gen 2 3-18 are going for cheap right now, lot of scope for the money.
 
After some thought, talking to folks at some local shops, and online reviews I have decided I am going with either a Nightforce or S&B.

Need to now finalize on 1st or 2nd plane. I think I will go with a new NXS if I decided on SFP...a used or demo ATACR or S&B if FFP.
 
CAPTAIN INSANO said:
After some thought, talking to folks at some local shops, and online reviews I have decided I am going with either a Nightforce or S&B.

Need to now finalize on 1st or 2nd plane. I think I will go with a new NXS if I decided on SFP...a used or demo ATACR or S&B if FFP.
Click to expand...


As for why...the glass is great on all the models I looked at but the feel of the adjustments (I was surprised how much more comfortable some models felt to me than others), customer service, and track record is why I finalized my preference. Glad I went to look at them in person!
 
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