Advise on Caliber for up to 2400 yds

Butleroutdoors

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Hello All,
Trying to push my Bergara 6.5CM past 1 mile. The range I am shooting at has up to 2400 yds. Tried 1975 yds but as expected difficult to see the splashes of the misses. Techancially a 6.5CM can do ELR but it seems more optimized for 1400-1500 yds. Plus the MOA come up past a mile starts to push the limit of the scope.
What would ya’ll recommend for up to 2400 yds in a calibler with the least amount of recoil?
I’m leaning towards 6.5PRC but want to hear others viewpoints.
Thank you in advance
PS. I have specific scope questions (I.e. clarity at ELR)I will start a thread on that later…
 

Schw15

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    I don't think the 6.5 prc is going to give that much more splashes. The best middle ground in my opinion is the 7mms shooting 183 190 195 or 197 grain bullets. But a bigger 30 cal with 230 grains help. I'm lucky and at our local range it goes to 2100 yards but there is a lot of dirt so splashes are easy to see on misses and we have hit indicators. I personally run a 7mm-300 win mag 183 smk or 197 smk with great results. But have played with a lot of combos and buddies rifles seen 300 win mag x3 7 saum 6.5x55 6.5-06 ackley 7 max 7mm rem mag and a couple 7mm-300. But what is your action long short mag? and do you reload or buy ammo?
     
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    SmileMaker

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    300NM, 300PRC, 338LM, 338 Snipetac, 33XC are all good caliber choices for 2400 yds. The last two are still supersonic at that distance with 300 grain bullets. Unfortunately splash visibility is going to be dependent on target and terrain conditions. Reliable spotting of hits at that distance will usually involve a hit indicator or target cam even with some of the more expensive spotting scopes. Felt recoil is going to be rifle dependent. Best advise would be find a smith that caters to ELR crowd or attend a match or practice session and you may get the opportunity to see or try a few options.
     

    Rocketmandb

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    I wouldn't use a 6.5 PRC for that distance. Depending on where you're shooting, spotting misses will likely be difficult, and spotting hits won't be much easier.

    I take my 300 PRC out to low 2000s, but haven't yet taken as far as 2400. I find 2000 - 2100 to be fairly straight forward. 2400 would take a crap load of elevation, and be difficult to spot splash/hits. Still, I feel 300 PRC is the perfect mix of ELR capability, barrel life, and economics.

    You could look at a 338 (or 338 AI), or go to a 33XC, but the cost of shooting goes up significantly.
     

    badassgunworks

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    First of all a creed or any 6.5 is not a elr caliber many problems , not just splash. For example bc not high enough so you run out of moa travel. Extra velocity of the prc wont help past 1400 yards as it will still fall on its face. As far as the elr topic . You may be able to shoot distances that are elr in type. But that being said elr competition starts at 1500 and goes past. 3500 yards. The 30 calibers like the prc and win mag wont help eather as high bc jacketed bulleys have a minimal increase over the 6.5. With about the same velocity producing the same trajectory. In my view the lapua is a entry level elr cartridge. If your going to go elr start with a 375 cheytac. And dont look back. At some point on time the 2500 yards that your wanting to shoot now will not be far enough. Elr is like a Lays potato chip you can't eat just one. And 2500 yards wont solve your craving.
     

    Butleroutdoors

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    First of all a creed or any 6.5 is not a elr caliber many problems , not just splash. For example bc not high enough so you run out of moa travel. Extra velocity of the prc wont help past 1400 yards as it will still fall on its face. As far as the elr topic . You may be able to shoot distances that are elr in type. But that being said elr competition starts at 1500 and goes past. 3500 yards. The 30 calibers like the prc and win mag wont help eather as high bc jacketed bulleys have a minimal increase over the 6.5. With about the same velocity producing the same trajectory. In my view the lapua is a entry level elr cartridge. If your going to go elr start with a 375 cheytac. And dont look back. At some point on time the 2500 yards that your wanting to shoot now will not be far enough. Elr is like a Lays potato chip you can't eat just one. And 2500 yards wont solve your craving.
    That’s so true, thought I would be happy doing a mile but then the range has 2400!
     

    Butleroutdoors

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    I don't think the 6.5 prc is going to give that much more splashes. The best middle ground in my opinion is the 7mms shooting 183 190 195 or 197 grain bullets. But a bigger 30 cal with 230 grains help. I'm lucky and at our local range it goes to 2100 yards but there is a lot of dirt so splashes are easy to see on misses and we have hit indicators. I personally run a 7mm-300 win mag 183 smk or 197 smk with great results. But have played with a lot of combos and buddies rifles seen 300 win mag x3 7 saum 6.5x55 6.5-06 ackley 7 max 7mm rem mag and a couple 7mm-300. But what is your action long short mag? and do you reload or buy ammo?
    Thank you for your response, I was thinking 7mm would be an option, just not sure which one would be best for the least recoil.
    I reload and no preference on action.
     

    Schw15

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    Thank you for your response, I was thinking 7mm would be an option, just not sure which one would be best for the least recoil.
    I reload and no preference on action.
    Are you starting from scratch build then for all of this? Any comps? Or just for fun?
     

    Steel head

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    I don't think the 6.5 prc is going to give that much more splashes. The best middle ground in my opinion is the 7mms shooting 183 190 195 or 197 grain bullets. But a bigger 30 cal with 230 grains help. I'm lucky and at our local range it goes to 2100 yards but there is a lot of dirt so splashes are easy to see on misses and we have hit indicators. I personally run a 7mm-300 win mag 183 smk or 197 smk with great results. But have played with a lot of combos and buddies rifles seen 300 win mag x3 7 saum 6.5x55 6.5-06 ackley 7 max 7mm rem mag and a couple 7mm-300. But what is your action long short mag? and do you reload or buy ammo?
    This
    6.5 magnum has the same issue
    Small splash.

    7mm magnum of some sorts with 180-195 is considerably better with BC’s that make most 300’s blush

    My 7 saum is very mild shooting yet has been a solid performer out to two miles with 190 Berger’s
    It’s really a fantastic and affordable combination.


    300’s definitely have a splash advantage and definitely are a solid option.

    My 338 is kicking ass with a 265 or 285 grain solids and loves Berger 300’s as well.
     

    Rocketmandb

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    May as well start building a 375 like said. Soon enough you won’t be happy shooting 2400 and you’ll be after 3k. It’s a sickness with only one cure. You’ve been warned but I’m betting it’s too late for you already

    No... I can stop any time I want. Really... it's not an addiction... any time I want...
     

    Steel head

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    May as well start building a 375 like said. Soon enough you won’t be happy shooting 2400 and you’ll be after 3k. It’s a sickness with only one cure. You’ve been warned but I’m betting it’s too late for you already
    7070FF4B-96C1-4D3D-9DF4-2329E8A9971D.png
     

    secondofangle2

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    What is the goal? In terms of target size and percentage hit rate? If you want to shoot a realistic sized target (1 MOA) with any reasonably predictable rate (i.e., not "my XYZ gun can go out to 2400 yards" meaning I've connected once or twice and made a big pile of brass along the way) 338 LM is entry level as others have stated, and the big boys (375, 416, 50 BMG) dominate past 2000 yards.
     

    secondofangle2

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    Desert Tech is a great rig for this since you can switch barrels and calibers and making a "custom rig" means just one good barrel spun up
     
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    badassgunworks

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    Desert Tech is a great rig for this since you can switch barrels and calibers and making a "custom rig" means just one good barrel spun up
    Thats basicly the same for any custom action ma ufactors make different bolts for you like pierce engerneering and they dont need your action to spin up your barrel and chanber it. Just ship you one ready to install
     

    Dogtown

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    My ELR rig for several years has been a 36" .338LM Improved 40 in my old Gen 1 SRS. I went this route after years of shooting out to 2000m with a vanilla .338LM and a 26" barrel, but really struggled beyond a mile. That long improved barrel throws 300gr bullets at 3100fps which really performs well beyond a mile. The caveat is that fireforming the brass feels like quite a waste at times. Last year I got a deal on some RCC brass made to my chamber specs and for anyone going with an Improved chamber, I suggest you send RCC your reamer print.

    9LBR235.jpg


    More recently I've added a 28" .300NM barrel which I'm finding is really pleasant to shoot and a bit more versatile with more bullets to choose from, and no need to fireform brass. 220-230gr bullets can be pushed over 3000fps and will easily get you to 2000 yards. I recently shot a match with 212gr Seneca solids that will stay supersonic to about 2400 yards. There's also a 241gr Seneca that, combined with a 1:7 twist barrel, should be good to 2800 yards (similar with 250 A-Tips). I should point out, this is the same rifle I also shoot 6.5x47L and .308WIN with.

    Both of the above, combined with enough elevation, are reasonable options for an ELR rig for the 2000-2500 yard ranges, and a bit of a stretch to 3000+ yards. That's when you want to move up to a .375CT or .416B, but that requires a step up in rifle size, ammo components,, larger press, etc. As suggested, you may want to just jump right up to that point if shooting beyond 2500 yards is your goal. .375CT was the king of the ELR hill for a lot of years, but it's starting to be eclipsed by .416B in this area because we're finally getting quality .416 bullets for it.
     

    Hollywood 6mm

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    I wanted something similar since I have semi-regular access to a range that goes to 2400, and I ended up settling on 300PRC. I'm building mine with a 30" barrel to squeeze out all the velocity I can, and a 1.250" straight for extra weight to absorb as much recoil as possible. Run the numbers on a 230 Berger, 230 ATip, or 225 ELD at 3,000 FPS and you'll see why I went that route.
     

    Steel head

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    I wanted something similar since I have semi-regular access to a range that goes to 2400, and I ended up settling on 300PRC. I'm building mine with a 30" barrel to squeeze out all the velocity I can, and a 1.250" straight for extra weight to absorb as much recoil as possible. Run the numbers on a 230 Berger, 230 ATip, or 225 ELD at 3,000 FPS and you'll see why I went that route.
    Similar ballistics to a mild 7mm but a bit better than a hottish 338 lapua.
     

    Matt_3479

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    If your super concerned about recoil I’d probably try a 7 saum or 7 of some flavour. But if I was building for 2000 ish to 2400 I’d probably try a 300 Norma or Norma improved if still a little recoil shy. A heavy rifle with a good brake will tame this rifle, a fast twist will push the 230’s, 245’s and 250’s at 2950+ fps and you should have a super accurate good shooting rifle!
     

    acudaowner

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    there are video's online showing 6.5 cm out to 2800 maybe further I haven't seen all of them but maybe if the hard thing for you is seeing the splash you could try grooming the area surounding the target to help you see a splash easier to be seen Id also suggest 7mm saum it can be run from the same short action you have in your creedmoor with only a little more recoil cut grass down burn maybe if you can rake dirt smooth loose soil makes more of a visable splash than hard soil maybe cheap sad could help or a larger round .best of luck with what ever you use send picks .
     

    Dogtown

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    The problem with shooting 6.5mm bullets at ELR distances isn’t so much about trajectory, but more about spotting impacts. At least that’s been my experience.
     
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    1moaoff

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    No dog in this hunt.
    Short action choice is probably a 7 saum. @Steel head has it down and it's a heck of a package especially if you can or will single load.

    I wouldn't mind building one to fill the gap between standard and big.

    After about a 260 (running hot) I jump to 300NM. Yrs ago there weren't the options there are now, atleast not with the information. I was never a 300WM fan. But I did love the 7RM.

    It all depends on what you want easy button is a 300NM

    Mine is either a 338 LM or 300 NM I don't even use the 338 barrel.
     

    Steel head

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    It all depends on what you want easy button is a 300NM

    Mine is either a 338 LM or 300 NM I don't even use the 338 barrel.
    7 saum is really quite amazing, target shooting, hunting and even ELR, not perfect in any category but quite capable in all.
    Fairly affordable and quite mild recoil.


    I skipped the 338lapua or Norma because they really don’t beat the 7mm except for splash

    338 edge loaded with copious amounts of N570 with solids was my next step.

    13ish mils for a mile and 35ish for 3000 but it’s considerably more expensive than my 7 saum.
     
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    MOUNTIC

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    300 Norma Mag would get my vote. If it's in an AXMC or SR you can always just have a 33xc barrel spun up if your goal is 2+ miles.
     

    jbailey

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    7 saum is really quite amazing, target shooting, hunting and even ELR, not perfect in any category but quite capable in all.
    Fairly affordable and quite mild recoil.
    100% agree here.

    I used to have one, in a short action, and I used it all over the Rockies and at Alleghany Sniper Challenge in WV. Was an awesome gun for 2500 yds and in. Easy precision, <<0.5" groups at 100 w/o much load development. Low SD/ES. No need to look beyond the heavy Berger bullets (back in my day, 180gr Berger Hybrid was it). Enough splash at these ranges, but with mild recoil energy that allowed you to shoot all day. Hit steel with authority. Nosler brass = very good. 26" barrel so the rifle could be slung on your shoulder and actually man-portable. Decent barrel life for a magnum (think I got 2000rds). Good hunting option. My load was essentially 180gr Berger + H4831sc (don't remember charge) + Nosler Brass = ~3000fps w/o much temp variation.

    It was the easy switch to top 5 finishes at ASC and many hits at 2000+ yds.
     
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    Bandit320

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    I personally like 30 cal cartridges. I’ve only stretched mine to 2,000 so far. Can you elaborate on what you mean by “no caliber comes closer.” There are numerous larger calibers that I’m sure would do far better. How far have you shot and with what cartridges?
     

    badassgunworks

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    I personally like 30 cal cartridges. I’ve only stretched mine to 2,000 so far. Can you elaborate on what you mean by “no caliber comes closer.” There are numerous larger calibers that I’m sure would do far better. How far have you shot and with what cartridges?
    Correct heavier higher bc is always better the further you shoot. Accuracy is accuracy. I have 408 and 416 calibers that shoot in the high 1's
     

    Alpine 338

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    I have and shot to distance; 7 SAUM, 300WM, 30 Nosler, and 338 LM. Honestly at my altitude (8000-ft), they all peter out at around 2100 to 2200 yards. Yes, you may get lucky, and make hits beyond that, but let's think reality here.

    At a minimum you'll want a 338LM Improved. I personally would just jump up to 375 CT.

    Just my opinion.
     
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