AFT letter on GSG 5

[RayDog]

We had an ATF audit this week and they made us pull all of our GSG carbines. They said they ATF is calling the fake can on the carbine a real one. The first batches had solid cans with a hole for the barrel while the new ones are hollow tubes. They said a letter from the TECH branch will be out soon but since they were there for the audit they gave us a heads up early....THANKS

Just a heads up for you guys

They said we can pull the cans and sell without them on there if we want

 

[Chiller]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We had an ATF audit this week and they made us pull all of our GSG carbines. They said they ATF is calling the fake can on the carbine a real one. The first batches had solid cans with a hole for the barrel while the new ones are hollow tubes. They said a letter from the TECH branch will be out soon but since they were there for the audit they gave us a heads up early....THANKS

Just a heads up for you guys

They said we can pull the cans and sell without them on there if we want </div></div>

Thanks for the heads up....

 

[dtask]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

This bad boy right here?

That GSG-5 sure is taking a beating lately isn't it! First HK & now at the hands of the BATFE. I wonder if the new ones that HK licensed will have issues, because at SHOT, they looked identical.

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We had an ATF audit this week and they made us pull all of our GSG carbines. They said they ATF is calling the fake can on the carbine a real one. The first batches had solid cans with a hole for the barrel while the new ones are hollow tubes. They said a letter from the TECH branch will be out soon but since they were there for the audit they gave us a heads up early....THANKS

Just a heads up for you guys

They said we can pull the cans and sell without them on there if we want </div></div>

If you pull the can and the bbl length is still 16" (or the same) how does the fake suppressor do anything?
Any clue on what attributes made the suppresor "real"?
Can you provide more detail on what was changed? Solid as in a solid tube with a bore milled down it?

sorry for all the Q's

 

[RayDog]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

According to the ATF on the early ones the fake suppressor was solid and had a hole drilled for the barrel to fit and the new ones have a hollow tube.

 

[500grains]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

Good heads up.

I could never figure out why cans were regulated. In England they want people to use cans.

 

[dtask]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

So, which ones have the issue (solid or hollow) or is it an all models issue?

 

[Sgt. 0811]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

I don't get it.

 

[bcr229]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We had an ATF audit this week and they made us pull all of our GSG carbines. They said they ATF is calling the fake can on the carbine a real one. <span style="color: #990000">The first batches had solid cans with a hole for the barrel while the new ones are hollow tubes.</span> They said a letter from the TECH branch will be out soon but since they were there for the audit they gave us a heads up early....THANKS</div></div>

I wondered how long it would take ATF to figure that one out.

 

[CDiPrecision]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

So I wonder if the SD models are considered the same.. Without holes drilled and no baffles, I fail to see the reasoning.. stupid stupid.

 

[Mo_Zam_Beek]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

Raydog - Do you know if they plan on extending that same ruling to short ARs with long flash hiders? Or is the logic that an extended flash hider is still a flash hider but a tube is part of the suppressor?

I remember the fake suppressors / tubes for MACs from years ago - I guess owners of anything like this or the gsg5 in question are now newly minted felons.


Good luck

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CDiPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So I wonder if the SD models are considered the same.. Without holes drilled and no baffles, I fail to see the reasoning.. stupid stupid. </div></div>

Since I don't understand how the ruling applies to the other model, I'm not sure.
Knowing how the SD is built, I would state that classifing that as a suppressor could allow interpretation that any solid free-float tube is also a suppressor. The barrel passes fully through the tube.

 

[Ranger70]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

So putting a sight ext. tube on my .22 target rifle would be classed as a suppressor.???

 

[jrp3]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

I assume they are classifying it as a suppressor, because if you threaded the hollow version onto a threaded barrel, that is exactly what it would do. It obviously does nothing in it's current configuration, but neither would a 50 cal suppressor if you slid it over the barrel.

 

[m5flyer]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RayDog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We had an ATF audit this week </div></div>

Oh I feel for ya....Had mine last summer. What a treat that was

3 months of complete BS.

PM me we can compare notes!

 

[tarugs]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

When you said first batches are you referring to 1st Gen GSG-5? And the "new ones" the 2nd Gen?

 

[paradigmsk8er]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

fwiw..I have personally been through a lengthy process with the BATFE involving mock suppressors. If they test it in their lab on any weapon, and it can reduce the noise by ANY measurable degree, it is classified as a suppressor and regulated.


Their worry is not this mock suppressor as it is applied to the gsg5-their rationale (and as much as we all hate to admit it it makes sense) is that if this same device were applied to the muzzle of a different weapon, it could reduce the (or has been proven to) reduce the sound signature. Thus making it a suppressor.

Like I said I had a run in with a DHS agent and BATFE agent over something similar, but I will say both were understanding, polite, had no problem personally just were executing the law. I lost a mock suppressor, they were fine with it, and we went our separate ways. No harm, no penalties, no record, nada. So my two cents-if they say give them up, and you do so willingly they won't have a problem. If you resist you may run into future issues.



I don't like it any more then most of you and also agree that they are too heavily regulated..but its what the law states and the law is the law.

 

[tikkafan]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

A law is a law if it protects property. If it doesn't do that, it's not a real law.

 

[Switchblade]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

Shoot cans are a waste of money since I was a kid. Gimme a good Coke bottle, a bit of 'glass, some steel wool, a bit of poly plumbing tube and I got me a real deal silencer! Put a towel over it and VIOLA! A guy could whack a liberal an no one would know!

 

[bcr229]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

Update from ATI

To all retail customers:

On January 2010 American Tactical Imports Inc received official notification from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and explosives that the original barrel shroud (aka: fake suppressor) supplied with your GSG 5 SD model must be replaced. It has been determined that this shroud is regulated under the National Firearms Act. American Tactical will provide a replacement shroud at no charge for each GSG 5 SD model sold or currently in inventory.
Consumers in possession of a GSG 5 SD model with the original shroud in place on the firearm are now in violation of the NFA. To avoid continued violation of the NFA, ATI asks that all persons in possession obtain a replacement shroud as soon as possible. We anticipate arrival of the new shrouds to begin by the middle of February 2010.
IMPORTANT: THE ORIGINAL SD MODEL SHROUD MUST BE RETURNED ACOMPANIED BY THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER BEFORE A REPLACEMENT SHROUD IS ISSUED. THE DIAMETER OF THE SD SHROUD IS 1-9/16”. DO NOT RETURN THE SMALLER CARBINE SHROUD.
WHAT TO DO:
If possible return your old shroud to the dealer where purchased and show him this notice. The shroud will be returned to ATI along with a list of serial numbers from the guns that the shrouds were removed. ATI will send replacements to the dealer for pick up at your convenience; ATI will be sending replacements as fast as logistics allow. If your dealer is out of business or difficult to reach, or you purchased your gun used, from a consumer, return the shroud directly by US mail or UPS to American Tactical Imports Inc. 100 Airpark Drive Rochester, NY 14624.
PLEASE TRY NOT TO CALL US. We will provide comprehensive information on our web site www.americantactical.us , and www.ar15.com or by e-mail to [email protected]
REMEMBER, INCLUDE THE FIREARM SERIAL NUMBER WITH EACH SHROUD OR A REPLACEMENT WILL NOT BE ISSUED.
This action IS NOT being instituted through any fault and is strictly due to NFA compliance. American Tactical will assume the responsibility to satisfy the requirements in an effort to minimize the impact on our customers and protect your investment.
We at American Tactical Imports Inc. sincerely apologize for any inconvenience caused by this unfortunate situation.

Sincerely,
Anthony DiChario
President C.E.O. retailcandoc.021210

 

[Boomholzer]

Re: AFT letter on GSG 5

here is a ATF constructed drawing [stated] copied from ATI via Ar-15.com:
<span style="font-size: 20pt"> </span> <span style="font-family: 'Arial Black'"><span style="font-weight: bold">Enjoy</span></span>