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AI or Custom? **Delivered. Update in OP**

03psd

03psd

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
May 27, 2006
567
31
Oklahoma
First of all thanks to all for info on East coast AI dealers. Another question has arisen. Basically, why I want an AI versus a custom? Fair question. I suppose my answer is that it's turn key without me having to make a bunch of decisions. Also I don't have the timeframe typical customs take. I don't compete in PRS but want one I could use if I ever so decided. I will go short action, either another 308 or 6.5.
so the question is, with a $5000 rifle only budget, would you choose a factory turn key rifle like a AI or Sako or look for a new or almost new custom from the PX. What say you?

Update 3/7/17 - So thank you to all for the multitude of replies to this and my AI twist thread. I learned a lot and had much to consider. Today I ordered a AIAT from a site sponsor. I will admit the thread about the ads did get me thinking about what it cost to run a site like this and how the sponsors help defray that cost. I get much from this site, supporting a sponsor is the least I could do. I chose to order from Mile High Shooting not only because they are a prominent sponsor but also because they could deliver exactly what I wanted and had a GREAT price on it all. Here's what I ordered:

AIAT folder OD Green
Small firing pin
Bartlein 1:10 .308 barrel cut to 17" and threaded 5/8-24 with protector
Bartlein Gain Twist 8.7-7.7 6.5 Creedmoor barrel 24" threaded 5/8-24 with protector
2 addt'l AI 10 rnd magazines

I should have it in about 2 weeks. Great to know MHSA is the U.S. AI service center and they do all the barrel work in house. Dave at MHSA was very accommodating and answered all my questions. I feel very comfortable with my purchase despite it being the most expensive single firearm purchase I have ever made. I did go slightly over my stated budget but I have 2 great quality barrels that are exactly what I wanted, not requiring additional work elsewhere plus I picked up 2 additional magazines at $70 each. I still need to get 2 muzzle breaks so that will be a few more bucks but its not like I can't shoot it without a break for a while. I am confident this rifle will last me a lifetime and should I ever decide to get rid of it, it will retain a significant portion of its original value. I cannot wait to get it to the range!

UPDATE 2 Rifle Arrive

Dave at Mile High Shooting called me Monday to tell me that they had my barrel work was done and that it was shipping that day. All total 1 week from order to shipping. Very impressive considering they had 2 barrels to cut and thread. They shipped FEDEX and my package arrived in 4 days. Everything arrived well packed in foam. I am very satisfied with the service I got from MHSA and Dave in particular. He took great concern to educate me where I had questions and to get me exactly what I wanted in a very prompt manner. The quality of the rifle is exceptional but that was to be expected. I am anxious to get some glass for it and get to the range. I couldnt help but check out the trigger. I like 2 stage triggers and this one is very nice. I couldnt be happier. Also need a suitable hard case for this. Thinking Pelican 1750 in OD to match. I have indeed bought once and cried once, now I look forward to years of happy returns.
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It all depends on what you are looking for in a rifle. If the AI or Sako offers what you are looking for in a rifle then they are pretty hard to beat. If it's not what you are looking for then I would go with a custom from one of our vendors on the hide that can meet your time frame. I'm sure one of them can take care of you in a pretty quick time frame provided they can get their hands on all the parts you want to use for the build.
 
Does your $5000 budget include glass or just the rifle?
 
Both.

Just kidding. I am a pretty inexperienced, but I have a trg22 and have been impressed with everything about it. However I did pick up a second job to pick up a used AI here on the post exchange. I also pared down all my hunting rifles to order a custom, GAP, that I'm hoping it will be ready for some load development before fall.


The trg22 fit me better then the aiaw, so I'm hoping the aiax fits a little better. I would get behind a few rifles and see what you like.
 
I will start with I have 4 AI's and love them. Having said that if your budget is $5000 looking at the TRG 22 in 6.5CM or .308 is a great rifle. I also have a Steyr SSG-04 and put over 7000 round down the tube and still would shoot right at 1/2 moa before I had it re-barreled. I can say the Steyr SSG line are great right out of the box. If you go AI with glass you are looking at $7000 for an AT. You could go TRG 22 and be very close to $5000. With Steyr you cold stay under $5000 but that would .308 only. I had a custom Rem 700 built and was very accurate but I hated the action. I my option the Rem 700 suck would never do another build. If you go with Surgeon or other 700 clone they work much better. Go luck lots to think about.
 
The biggest thing against custom is depending on the gunsmith, the waiting time provided is max waiting time, min waiting time, not even fucking close to proposed waiting time. With an AI you buy it from Euro or MHSA and its there in a week. I find this to be the biggest detractor from going custom (yes some GS are better than others, but i have dealt with some who apparently dont much care).
 
Maybe go with an almost new AI from the post exchange. I love my AIAT. It shoots amazingly well and has a fantastic smooth action. I went with the AIAT for the quick change barrels and availability of aftermarket barrels. It didn't hurt that I knew the resale value was there if I wanted something different.
 
I went custom, but that's due to the AI platform not having the aftermarket options over here compared with the US.
 
Just bought 3rd AI. Not to say I have three but rather that I can only afford one top tier rifle at a time. I have had GAP's, APA and Surgeon customs. I have built 10 or so customs two for myself.

With all that said I keep going back to AI. Every custom I have owned or built was a tack driver. With factory match ammo they shot only slightly better than the AI's I have owned. Since I reload I could tweak things to get the AI's a little tighter. I didnt bother putting same effort into loads for customs because I think at that point the rifle is limited by the meat bag behind the trigger.

So why AI? Boils down to my love of the trigger, my confidance in reliability and short throw bolt lift. Hate the ergos of all of them but yet I keep going back for more.

There are now custom actions such as Badger and GAP tempest that offer short lift bolts certain there are others but those come to mind first. If I were to do a custom that would be the direction I would go YMMV but anymore I have no interest in 700 variants.

If you are mechanicaly inclined you can build your own custom without a machine shop.

Badger action
KRG stock or Manners (MCS)
Trigger of your choice
Barrel of your choice finished by any number of smiths

You would need to invest in action wrench, barrel vice and go/ no go gages.

There are other actions which use Savage drop in barrels which could be similarly home built but then we are back to the bolt lift.


 
My justification is easy, with the AI you get match grade accuracy in a package that is military grade. Just like Anchor said, there are a lot of customs based off of the Rem 700 action and this is fine but that action is over 100 years old. Once you work with a action with a short 60 degree bolt lift like AI, Sako, Tikka, etc. you never want to go back to something like the 90 degree bolt lift of the Rem 700 action. The trigger on the AI is perfect IMO and unlike customs the trigger shoe is user adjustable for different hand sizes. The pull weight of the AI triggers is adjustable also but some customs come with drop ins with this capability so that point is moot. I am a HUGE fan of 10 round double stack magazines as this is a big deal for me. They are nice to load and having 10 rounds on hand is great.
 
I love my AXMC, and I loved my AWs. I say look into a used AW or AE, and invest the rest of the money into barrels, ammo, scope/mount and training.

With an AW, barrel changes still only take 5-10 minutes and you can really stretch your dollar.
 
I don't have an AI, or TRG which I've owned, because I prefer 90 degree bolt throw and set to lighter weight single stage triggers, as well as the option for a lighter weight rifle. Plus it's fun trying different custom actions out. So I own customs. My favorite being one based off a ARC Mausingfield action which isn't the standard M700 clone.

Otherwise I'd buy a AI of some type.

 
I swapped over to an AI AX308 with the quick change barrel. I sold a couple of custom rifles to make the purchase. I really liked the idea of being able to quickly change the barrel between different barrels, and I can order a premade barrel and it will drill tacks right from the "factory". but I will say the main reason I went with the AI was the action. after getting behind a buddies, I had to have one. its smooth and fast. the main downside is its heavy. real heavy for the barrel contour. but for me its a comp rifle, not a hunting rifle. so, the weight helps steady it out and the stages aren't that long where hefting it is an issue.

the advantage to the customs are that you get a lot more choices for things like chassis/stock profiles and triggers. heck even the moa on the rail if you need something different than 20 moa. like full race ready bad ass chassis, you have MPA. like adjustable stocks manner and McMillan have those. don't care for the heavy fill or need a narrower front section, no problem. like flat faced triggers, yup they are out there. single stage, 2 stage, yup. control round feed, 3 lug, 2 lug. yup, yup, yup. so the sky is the limit with a custom. and there are always plenty on the hide for sale. and there are also a ton of great smiths that can get them to you quick too. you might have to call around and it might also depend on what parts you want, but you can prob get it. you might even have to use mult vendors (say OTM for chassis, then send to area419, or just have Joe build you one).

so, it just depends on what you want. and how much that matters to you. there are some things on a rifle that I hate and would not buy/have on my rifle. but other things I couldn't care less, but someone else might be hell bent against it. so, again what do you want?
 
I have done custom and have an AI. I would give up my customs before the AI. They all shoot great, but the AI is just so damn solid and smooth. The accuracy is phenomenal and I personally like the two stage trigger it has. As previously mentioned, in less than a week you can have a badass rifle at the range.
 
I always liked the process of designing complete rifles. Probably the only thing I dislike about AI's, is that I can't do that fully with them.

Prior to the AT, us AW and AX owners paid north of $6k to own one. Smartest money I ever spent, and Ive owned a bunch of rem/remclone customs. AI added a barrel change feature and slashed $1500 off the price with the AT. Provided you like the ergos and the weight, it's a very smart buy. A poster above made a comment about accuracy, and the slight edge his customs had over the AI. I'm not disputing his experience at all. That used to be a common topic on the hide. Conventional wisdom here said that the AI was "field accurate" but very reliable, whereas the full custom build would edge it in accuracy. I've never found that to be the case. I'd actually say across it's lifetime, mine has been consistently more accurate than anything Ive ever owned. Good barrels, ergos that agree with me perfectly, and by far my favorite trigger have a lot to do with that. I have six barrels in six different cartridges fitted by 4 different people(I'm one of them), and they are all unbelievably accurate.

If you dont see regularly needing to swap barrels, a used AW with lots of extras can be found here pretty often. You could put a premium scope on one of these for just a bit more than your current rifle only budget.
 
Great replies all. Thank you very much. I am definetly leaning towards a AIAT. The ability and ease to swap calibers is very appealing. I would likely get a folding stock AT with a non threaded 24" barrel and also order a 26" threaded 6.5CM barrel. I would have the .308 cut to somewhere between 16.5 - 18" and threaded and use it when a shorter package was preferred. The longer 6.5mm barrel would be for longer range engagements and situations where the over all length and weight wasnt a factor.. I kind of see this as the best of both worlds. I have a significant amount of 308 reloading components that wouldnt go to waste and at the same time I can reap the benefits 6.5CM offers.

A quick question about the replacement barrels..... I see AI has their own as well as other companies offering them such as OTM using Bartlein blanks that are Gradous chambered. Am I better of using a factory AI replacement barrel or do the aftermarket ones fit and function as well if not better then a AI tube?
 
When I decide to get a 6.5CM prefit for my AIAT it will be from Patriot Valley Arms. They also sell through Bison Tactical.
 
For me AI has always been the end game. Ever since I saw one and shot one, I knew that's what I wanted. I picked up a used AT from a friend and absolutely love it. I love the way it feels, I love the way it shoots. My 260 barrel is from Tooley. In my research, any AI barrel will be good. Weather it's OTM, PVA, Tooley etc...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I agree with the majority census, AI's are hard to beat. Mainly because of the rifle package as a whole. With a custom rifle, you may get better accuracy for less and have more available accessories/options, but the AI is well thought out with its smooth 60 degree bolt throw, chassis features, rugged build for field use and excellent 2 stage trigger. I've own both an AI and GAP rifle. As much as I enjoy shooting both and prefer things in one over the other, I would give up my GAP before AI. I hope this helps!

Also, I'm currently building a rifle with the GAP Tempest action and my favorite, Manners stock. I'm hoping this will be a winner...
 
Both have their pros and cons. I've gone both routes and while I loved all my custom guns, the AI does everything I need and if I wanted something that's a no brainer and I can trust to be the most reliable, it would be the AI. The only thing I'd really change in an AI (and it's not a must) is the trigger. I've always preferred single stage to two stage triggers.
 
I will bringing my AXMC back from the Midwest in a couple weeks if you're near Bragg and want to handle one hit me up via PM. You were the one from an earlier post in NC right? If not disregard
 
OH58DViper said:
I will bringing my AXMC back from the Midwest in a couple weeks if you're near Bragg and want to handle one hit me up via PM. You were the one from an earlier post in NC right? If not disregard
Click to expand...

Thanks for the offer Viper but I'm on the other side of the state. It's probably for the best, handling a MC would only make me lust after that which I cannot afford. The AT taps me out unless I plan to shoot iron sights!
 
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No worries man, figured I'd see if I could help out.
 
I have had several custom builds..nothing wrong with any of them, but eventually sold them. I have an AI AT a couple of years now. I finally found something I do not get tired of shooting. It might have something to do with the switch barrel feature allowing me to switch calibers (308/243/260/6.5CM) in 5 minutes maintaining the same familiar platform allowing me to have one high end scope (S&B). Ray
 
03psd said:
First of all thanks to all for info on East coast AI dealers. Another question has arisen. Basically, why I want an AI versus a custom? Fair question. I suppose my answer is that it's turn key without me having to make a bunch of decisions. Also I don't have the timeframe typical customs take. I don't compete in PRS but want one I could use if I ever so decided. I will go short action, either another 308 or 6.5.
so the question is, with a $5000 rifle only budget, would you choose a factory turn key rifle like a AI or Sako or look for a new or almost new custom from the PX. What say you?
Click to expand...

my take:

if strictly a range gun it's a toss up. Find something that fits you.

 
After running a super tuned 700 that was a full custom with PTG Bolt. Also full custom actions. I have sold all those and have one comp rifle, the AI,/AT. I prefer the thumbhole so I didn't go AX. Bottom line ... Small or Regular primer, it works. Feeds like a champ, trigger doesn't break, runs like a champ. I can swap from 30 to 6 or 6.5 with ease and always have new barrels ready. In one season of 6.5 CM in a 700 clone I had several triggers fail, I don't load hot either. Chassis seem to always need some tuning to get the feeding right. With the AI everything is simple and works. I full embrace anything that uses the KISS method. I think the AT is perfection in a Match/LEO/MIL Platform.
 
Graeme@BisonTactical said:
We also usually try to have at least one AI rifle in the shop as well. And Josh's barrels are amazing for the AI's!
Click to expand...

I went to your website and it says the AI AT is sold out so it doesn't list a price tag. As a miscellaneous question, on Mile High's website it costs $400 more to get one with a threaded barrel. Is there something about AI barrels that make them harder to thread? Just wondering why there's such a huge price disparity. Not looking to buy one currently but once my stipend kicks in at the beginning of September I might be looking to make a bad decision.
 
NateVA said:
I went to your website and it says the AI AT is sold out so it doesn't list a price tag. As a miscellaneous question, on Mile High's website it costs $400 more to get one with a threaded barrel. Is there something about AI barrels that make them harder to thread? Just wondering why there's such a huge price disparity. Not looking to buy one currently but once my stipend kicks in at the beginning of September I might be looking to make a bad decision.
Click to expand...

AT rifles used to come as either a plain non threaded barrel or with a metric threaded barrel and muzzle brake, hence the $400 increase in price. I recommend getting the plain barrel to my customers and have it threaded for $100. Now, there is an option to get an AT with a 5/8x24 threaded barrel for approximately $100 more and you also get the option of either a high or low scope rail now.


 
AI vs Custom. I think that's more of a personal question. Some guys are stock guys and they hate chassis systems. You don't have the option of buying an AI in anything but a chassis system.

If you are open to a chassis gun, here are the pros that I see to an AI system.

1. The bolt throw and feeding is incredibly smooth. Sometimes almost too smooth. I was shooting a match Saturday and on the last shot of the last stage, as I ran the bolt home it felt like I didn't pick up a round in my AX. I thought I must have loaded 9 rounds instead of 10. So, I pulled the bolt open to single feed and felt a live round eject out of the chamber. That was my bad. The rifle just runs smooth.
2. The bolt continues to run smoothly even when the action gets dirty. Some custom actions will give you fits when they get dirty, the AI just keeps chugging along.
3. I love the two stage AI trigger. It's not everyones ideal trigger, but it works great and is very dependable.
4. The AW double stack mags are just plain awesome. Easy to load like an AR15 magazine. You just push the rounds directly down into the double stack mag. They are also nearly half of the height of a 10 round AICS magazine.
5. AI has the folding stock down. The are smooth, solid, and do not move even the slightest bit when deployed. The right folder on the AX and AXMC rifles is the best in the business.
6. The ability to swap calibers in around a minute with return to zero capability is awesome. If you plan ahead there is no need to ever have your rifle waiting at your gunsmith for a barrel. The Short Action AT and AX leave you stuck with Short Action cartridges that share the same bolt face as a .308, but it is still an awesome system. I would love to see AI offer a magnum bolt face and mag system that would allow users to run cartridges like the 7 and 6.5 SAUM. A .223 bolt face with mags would also be a fantastic addition.
7. The rifles are tack drivers. Factory rifles hammer one hole groups.
8. There are a number of companies providing drop in barrels for AI rifles and reasonable prices. They have them in stock, so their is no waiting for your smith to track down a barrel and do the work, unless you are wanting something a little out of the ordinary.
9. I love the bayonet firing pin system and the 3 position safety is a nice feature as well.
10. AI rifles just plain run. They are incredibly reliable no matter your shooting conditions. If your scope is up to the task, you could probably drive over it with your car and still have a functioning rifle. I know of someone who did just that with his rifle in a soft case. He adjusted the windage on his NF ATACR to rezero the rifle and his rifle and scope are working perfectly.
11. The bolt stop on the AI rifles is massive. If you are one of those bolt monkeys who can snap off the bolt stops in most 700 variants, I don't foresee you ever having that issue with an AI.

Potential downsides
1. They are relatively heavy and there is not much that can be done to lighten them besides running a Proof Carbon barrel, which I have been running on them since 2015.
2. As discussed above, if you purchase a short action variant you are married to short action cartridges that share the .308 bolt face.
3. They are not cheap. Starting around $4k for a non folder and a huge jump of nearly $3k to get into a short action AX. If you want a long action Magnum Capable AI, your only choice is the $8k AXMC.
4. If you have a large pin AXMC or older AT, AX, they do not play nice with small rifle primers. You'll need to get the bolts bushed if you want to run cartridges like the 6.5x47 or 6.5 Creedmoor. The new small pin short action AT and AX rifles work great with small rifle primers.
5. No option for an AI action in a traditional rifle stock.
6. If you don't like two stage triggers, you'll have to grow to like them, as there is not an aftermarket AI trigger that I know of.

I have yet to sell an AI rifle to a customer and have them come back and say they don't like it. A few have come back for a second and third AI rifle.





 
Not the same rifle, but I had a similar decision last year. Either custom, or DTA. I went DTA. Switching barrels to me is such a useful feature as I hunt with a 300WM but shoot the range with a .308 and just picked up a 6.5 to try and get into matches this year. Customs are great if done properly, but to me being able to switch barrels and have 1 great optic is a huge benefit.


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.
 
Congrats! I'm sure you'll enjoy it! Can't say I'm not jealous. We want a range report and pics when you get the time!
 
Great choice. That is EXACTLY what I am wanting to order in the future! You have got to post pics when you get it. The folks at MHSA are first class.
 
Congrats! I went the same route as you after browsing the hide and doing a bunch of other reading. Waiting on my 20" 308 barrel and right now running a 24" 6.5 creedmoor barrel in tan AIAT with folder. Shoots a ragged 1 hole group with creedmoor and I love it!!

 
Cajuntransplant said:
Congrats! I went the same route as you after browsing the hide and doing a bunch of other reading. Waiting on my 20" 308 barrel and right now running a 24" 6.5 creedmoor barrel in tan AIAT with folder. Shoots a ragged 1 hole group with creedmoor and I love it!!
Click to expand...

Sounds great. I hope mine shoots as well. Cant wait for Christmas in March to arrive!!!
 
digrazir said:
You definitely made the right choice...Ray
Click to expand...

Totally agree. I just recently went through the same scenario and just decided to cry once. I could not be happier with the decision. The team at Mile High Shooting were superb, didn't pressure me into anything, gave me all the info I needed to make an important decision in my shooting investment.
 
Bought an AI/AT, and I am simply amazed. I've been shooting almost 50years now, sigh.... But this is the sweetest rifle I have ever owned.I was shooting my Ruger Precision rifle and my AI yesterday, also took my old Steyr SSG PII, all to check some new loads. I could get ragged onehole 5-shot groups with the newer two rifles, BUT with the AI it was easy, it's like the rifle almost makes you do everything right , where as with the Ruger, you have to really work at it to get the rifle shoot well. I know it's Chevy vs. Benz.... As I drove home I began seriously think about selling some of my rifles, not so much for the $$ but because I have no desire to shoot them anymore.I have even started to think about an AX. I am sure you will be VERY happy with your new rifle.
 
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