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Aikido is it real?

Re: Aikido is it real?

Having studied Aikido for quite a few years I can certainly understand the view that aikido is nothing but show and pomp.
For about 80% of clubs I would agree that it has lost it's martial roots and become about twirling the jo and bokken about, the big break falls and flaring hakama's.
I first started out in a club like this and although it looks good it is not effective in the real world.
95% of the uke or person receiving the techniques just fall over without doing anything, so you never know if you are doing it right, or you learn that doing to bugger all is meant to make someone fly through the air.
I became quite disillusioned with aikido and had a few years off playing with BJJ. My previous background is kyokushin and shotokan karate and ATF Taekwondo.
Missing aikido I went back to training with my original instructor who had broken away from our old club and realingned himself with one of Morihei Ueshiba's uchideshi or live in students.
Watching an 80yr old little japanese man within 2 weeks of an achilles heel operation pummel the crap out of my 6'5" 250lb instructor was something to see.
His style was very martial, everything related back to the original sword cut, very clean, very neat and VERY effective.
It has been refreshing to come back and see how aikido should be.
I now do not fall over when the technique is not executed correctly and love seeing the look on the black belts faces when they realise I have not budged and they are flat on their backs from a simple takedown.
I believe that you should train as you intend to play and as such have started training with intent and reality.
My aikido has improved in leaps and bounds and although the breakfalls and flying hakamas still look flashy, if you don't jump over your arm, it's going to break some stuff now, rather than oh lets make this look awesome!
As an aside, Steven Seagal was the first white man to open a dojo in tokyo, he was visited by the yakuza who threatened him to shut down or pay the penalty, suffice to say after they left the second time his dojo stayed open. His aikido works, is brutal and martial and yes he has dramatized aikido for film, if you watch his movies with anderson silva showing his knowledge and skills with regard to body manipulation and control, you can see that this is a guy who knows his stuff.
There are martial artists and then there are artists, just about anyone can get a black belt now but forget the origins of it. They always used to be white and the reason they became "black" was because the belt was not washed and as such due to the years of training became dark with practice and training. I do not wear coloured belts and follow Morihei Ueshibas statement that " I always wear white because I am always learning". Lame maybe but as they say in BJJ, its when you get your black belt that you start learning.
 
Re: Aikido is it real?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ghostdog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyway, I hope you enjoy the video. It seems to be a university recruiting video. Whether you believe it's real or not, it's some crazy stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBiRWqm6DKI&feature=related
</div></div>

What a joke. Obviously you're right, this is a Korean advertising video probably aimed at middle schoolers.

It looks all nice and cute and moviesque, but those silly fan waves and the legs flailing around are just for artistic flair. That guy sure as hell didn't get knocked backwards 5 feet by a pair of fan slaps to the face, but it makes the other little korean girls want to go to ninja fan girl school.

Nicely choreographed, but it's just for show.

I'm in the camp of, "I hate asian sounding sillyness that likes to look cool". Function over form, simple brutal fighting techniques over flips and spins and "Hi-yahs!".
 
Re: Aikido is it real?

Deep south. I would like to see that.
It must be a shot to the ego when you don't just fly through the air.
Back to the original video I posted. I liked it for lacking the big flashy normal aikido stuff.



Steven segal I am sure know his stuff. But his demos I have seen look like an adult taking on a child. He towers over most of the asian guys he throws around. I have seen pictures of him training all sorts of people, even law enforcement.
I just wonder how he would fare in a toe to toe fight with someone jabbing and moving and not just doing the typical running at him.
 
Re: Aikido is it real?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deepsouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having studied Aikido for quite a few years I can certainly understand the view that aikido is nothing but show and pomp.
For about 80% of clubs I would agree that it has lost it's martial roots and become about twirling the jo and bokken about, the big break falls and flaring hakama's.
I first started out in a club like this and although it looks good it is not effective in the real world.
95% of the uke or person receiving the techniques just fall over without doing anything, so you never know if you are doing it right, or you learn that doing to bugger all is meant to make someone fly through the air.
I became quite disillusioned with aikido and had a few years off playing with BJJ. My previous background is kyokushin and shotokan karate and ATF Taekwondo.
Missing aikido I went back to training with my original instructor who had broken away from our old club and realingned himself with one of Morihei Ueshiba's uchideshi or live in students.
Watching an 80yr old little japanese man within 2 weeks of an achilles heel operation pummel the crap out of my 6'5" 250lb instructor was something to see.
His style was very martial, everything related back to the original sword cut, very clean, very neat and VERY effective.
It has been refreshing to come back and see how aikido should be.
I now do not fall over when the technique is not executed correctly and love seeing the look on the black belts faces when they realise I have not budged and they are flat on their backs from a simple takedown.
I believe that you should train as you intend to play and as such have started training with intent and reality.
My aikido has improved in leaps and bounds and although the breakfalls and flying hakamas still look flashy, if you don't jump over your arm, it's going to break some stuff now, rather than oh lets make this look awesome!
As an aside, Steven Seagal was the first white man to open a dojo in tokyo, he was visited by the yakuza who threatened him to shut down or pay the penalty, suffice to say after they left the second time his dojo stayed open. His aikido works, is brutal and martial and yes he has dramatized aikido for film, if you watch his movies with anderson silva showing his knowledge and skills with regard to body manipulation and control, you can see that this is a guy who knows his stuff.
There are martial artists and then there are artists, just about anyone can get a black belt now but forget the origins of it. They always used to be white and the reason they became "black" was because the belt was not washed and as such due to the years of training became dark with practice and training. I do not wear coloured belts and follow Morihei Ueshibas statement that " I always wear white because I am always learning". Lame maybe but as they say in BJJ, its when you get your black belt that you start learning. </div></div>
My respect for for Jiu Jitsu has gradually fallen over the years as I have come across people who should definitely NOT be a black belt. It seems that black belts are a dime a dozen these days here in the states. I'm a college wrestler (past tense) and a good Jiu Jitsu practitioner will wreck me more times than not. I've rolled with black belts before and have held my own very well never getting sub'd. Then theres the REAL black belts that just crawl all over me like a spider and I don't stand a chance. Aikido seems to be an art that truly takes being a master to achieve the title of Sensei. I train at Wanderlei Silva's gym here in Vegas and I'm lucky to have the opportunity to see some of the fighters that come through and watch how they train. Wanderlei is a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and he's good. Then theres Demian Maia (Sp?) and he's amazing. Both black belts but worlds apart.
 
Re: Aikido is it real?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ultraman550</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My respect for for Jiu Jitsu has gradually fallen over the years as I have come across people who should definitely NOT be a black belt. </div></div>

I quite caring about what "belt" I was when realized that rankings could essentially be bought at a lot of franchised gyms. The beastliest guy I ever rolled with had never been to a "real" BJJ class.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ultraman550</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I train at Wanderlei Silva's gym here in Vegas and I'm lucky to have the opportunity to see some of the fighters that come through and watch how they train. Wanderlei is a black belt in Jiu Jitsu and he's good. Then theres Demian Maia (Sp?) and he's amazing. Both black belts but worlds apart. </div></div>

To my couch warrior eye, Wanterlei has never looked like a legit BJJ black belt. He is a killer, for sure, and looks like one of the nicest guys in the game. But many "real" black belts would tap him in a grappling match.

Demian is on a whole different level. I hope he sticks to his grappling roots while at 170. Playing striker didn't work out so well for him at Middleweight.
 
Re: Aikido is it real?

Not to veer off the aikido topic, but I have an enormous respect for jiu jistu. I wanted my two boys to be trained n a martial art and opted for JJ. Mostly ,because almost every single street fight I have ever seen results in the 2 opponents swinging wildly at each other grabbing each other and pulling each other to the ground. The more "elegant" disciplines are great for the spectacular or tournaments, but in my views, real world use, JJ is the way to go. Once they are on the ground is where they excell. I wanted my boys to ready for "real world" encounters they may come across.
Since enrolling them aprox 3 years ago, I have seen my 12 and 14 year old boys go from lanky, unconfidant, soft little guys to extremely confidant, tough, and resourceful young men. They progressed through the kids secondary classes and got their secondary kids black belts. They are not true black belts, but they did demostrate all the basics to allow to graduate into the adult program. Its actually annoying because they are always trying to choke me out and tell me to "just tap" when we wrestle. They are currently yellow belts right now and I suspect they will be there for awhile. NJ state law prohibits any under the age of 16 from attaining blue or green, I guess that is when they really start teaching shit that can truly wreck someone's day. The class is taught by a purple striped instructor and we have no adult black belt instructor in the class. Not sure if there are any in the area. So, round here a real JJ blackbelt are rare. Additionaly, i watched another student go and attain his Blue belt and it was pretty brutal, they put a hood over his head and the other students basically attack him from any position without his prior knowledge. Very similair to being sneak attacked and he was able to defend, guard and get the opponent to tap. This went on for about a half hour. One after the next. Anyway, as someone stated earlier, the high kicks, flying kicks and able to use oriental weapons are extremely cool, but if you go out of the house with a nunchunka, or sais, or sword and "defend" yourself, your more than likely going to take a little trip to the precinct headquarters. The ability to twist someone's wrist to the point of breaking or being able to choke the shit out of someone using their own shirt may not make the ESPN highlights but is a helluva lot more useful than being able to twirl nunchuks around your head without bashing it. I could not be happier with Jiu Jitsu, and recommend it highly.
 
Re: Aikido is it real?

a-hull, it is a thing the behold! I had one guy who was a 4th dan black belt get so frustrated because I refused to "fall" over try to wrestle me to the ground. I am not small and that just made the whole thing more funny, it was a bit like adam sandler in the waterboy when he first tried to tackle the guy.

Ultraman I couldn't agree more. I had been doing bjj for three weeks and went to a judo class with a mate who is australasian champion. His instructor heard I had started bjj and wanted to wrestle. He was a 5th dan black belt. I took him down and nearly choked him out before he got street on me. My respect for him diminished a great deal when he couldn't use normal techniques to beat me.
I know street fighting is street fighting but in the dojo it's not on. I have rolled with many a black belt and held my own, as you say the ones who are good are like super glue, you can't get them off and you are subbed time and time again. I trained with a brown belt whose finesse puts alot of black belts to shame. The same black belt instructor we trained under refused to give him his black belt even though he consistently held his own and often subbed the black belt.
Maia is incredible on the ground! I have both his Science of Jiu Jitsu dvds and they are GOLD! Xande and Saulo Ribeiro as well are incredible practioners of the art and truly understand the mechanics of the art. The Jiu Jitsu university book is fantastic as are their dvd's.
If anyone is interested in understanding Aikido more, Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere is a must read!
 
Re: Aikido is it real?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deepsouth</div><div class="ubbcode-body">a-hull, it is a thing the behold! I had one guy who was a 4th dan black belt get so frustrated because I refused to "fall" over try to wrestle me to the ground. I am not small and that just made the whole thing more funny, it was a bit like adam sandler in the waterboy when he first tried to tackle the guy.

</div></div>




Reminds me of this.

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The first punch, regardless of the style, can often determine the outcome of any fight.
 
A-Hull,

I grew up in Lacey and attended the Tacoma Aikido Club in the 80's. I know it is still there and to answer any and all questions you may have I would simply suggest you take the drive and visit. I would give them an A+ recommendation.

I have a friend who trained there also in the 80's, good guy and speaks VOLUMES of that club.

And yes Akido is real for those in the wonder - I do Shotokan Karate but we have a couple of moves from Akido (basics that just work)......
 
The punch without touching, or no touch knockout is such crap. It is just a way for these guys to get children or adults with half a brain to spend lots of money on classes.
 
is it real? is anything real? it exists yes. do you mean does it work effectively in practical applications? my answer would be yes. like others said here above, if you are good enough at it. i personally studied it at one of my 2 year duty stations way back when and never attained any real degree of mastery, but the sensei's that had been at it for a long time were amazing. aikido is basically softened jujitsu. more about learning to move, generate, and manipulate energies than purely a fighting form. when done correctly with an adversary it is like a bullfight. the bull is pissed and trying to do harm to the matador who elegantly dances around the attacks and returns harm at will. the reason aikido isnt popular is that it is solely defensive. seagall bastardized it by attempting to morph defensive maneuvers into offensive ones and what happens looks like some sort of silly slap boxing. why bother? study jujitsu if you are after that.
 
As a point of interest, Ushiba developed Aikido from Aiki-ju jutso, which is a form the samurai used in unarmed combat. He essentially took all the hard snaps and breaks and "turned them down", so to speak, into joint locks and controlled throws.

I think part of the reason people are put off by aikido is that when you start with the basics it's hard not to learn it in a "Step 1, Step 2, Step 3" form like most other arts, and doesn't feel like it would work. As nage you have really do have to be fluid, relaxed but firm (not limp dick or tensed up) or it isn't effective at all. In the 2 years or so I've been at it, I have to say it's definitely real.

It's also fairly dependent on the teacher as well, because there are some real fruity ones in this art.
 
Àikido and Japanese jujutsu are closely related. I studied Japanese jujutsu for around 20 years, and found that it really does work,well. Using someone else's balance, or lack thereof against them feels almost like an unsportsmanlike advantage. When fighting against people who don't know about Kazushi (unbalancing your opponent) , it is almost like you are fighting with a drunk who is wearing a blindfold. I had been studying for over 10 years before I ever had to use it for real. And was stunned at how quickly and easily I prevailed.

I am certain that an aikido practitioner would have felt the same way. It really does feel like an unfair advantage...but if I don't start the fight, all is fair.

the style I studied did not ascribe to the "it is only for defense" theory. It is damned hard to truly win against a determined foe using defense only. as my style came from battlefield use against opponents who were usually in armor, it was a very hard style. Defense only is not a good battlefield tactic.
 
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