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Sidearms & Scatterguns  AIWB guys, need your input

308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    So I'm finally ready to take the plunge into AIWB.

    I've played around with some of my holsters that can be somewhat used (even though they weren't primarily designed for) AIWB and I see the merits.

    After spending some time researching things, I think I have a handle on what works but need some confirmation/waveoff about what I'm thinking.

    Modwing: seems like a must have item and is self explanatory. I'm getting one on the holster, any dissenting opinions?

    Wedges: Do I need one? If so, how big? Squared or angled?

    Belt clips: Going with injection molded plastic as the holster needs to be easy on/off. Holsters with two clips, one on either side of centerline, are typically more stable but holsters with just one clip seem to ride better as you move/bend/etc. If one clip is the way, is a clip over the gun better than an offset clip?

    Cant: I'm heavily leaning towards reverse cant. There's no doubt in my mind, from looking at how Limited and Open USPSA competitors setup their holsters, that a reverse cant (muzzle in front of vertical) is extremely ergonomic with a holster in the appendix position. But all the tactitards seems to wear them with zero cant. It also seems that reverse cant helps in concealing the butt as it angles the heel of the pistol slightly downwards.

    Comments? What else should I consider?

    FWIW this is my carry pistol (yeah it's missing the front sight.....I recently added the RMR to it and the first front sight I bought was too tall....new one gets here tomorrow):
    P-07 RMR.jpg
     

    powdahound76

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    I run no cant, best way for a fast grab.
    I dont compete in those arenas, but do carry a pistol daily.
    Part of my need is at church. Seated draw and shoot is key (remember the man who was killed in church in TX last year reaching for his 4 oclock carry?).
    That cant outwards may work OWB, but I dont think it would for daily carry.
    Havent tried it but for a couple seated draws and I had to move more than I wanted.
    Also of noted, Im short too, so not a ton if room on a 5’7” dude to adjust stuff a lot.

    Large clip for the belt right over the gun keeps mine from shifting.

    Some kind of pad is nice. I am a slim build and it digs in if not.
    I dont use a wedge though, no need for concealability and dont want the and of my holster lookin like I am sportin a chub at church!
     

    LuvDog

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    I’ve only used single clip and mine are off to the side. I do run a claw, but no wedge. I have a double clip on order to try out so I can also carry a spare mag, but haven’t carried that was yet.

    I carry no cant
     

    PBWalsh

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    Modwing: yes, i wish I had one on mine, just need to order it

    Cant: I run zero but I’d like the option of using a cant to better conceal the grip

    Wedges: have never used one but can see the benefits depending on body type

    Clips: I’ve got a single large clip, but wouldn’t mind trying a dual clip IF it held a spare mag.

    For what its worth, I‘m carrying a CZ S2/RMR/x300 pretty dang comfortably with minimal printing with just a t-shirt. 5’8“, 210lb. I have noticed since loosing about 5cm off my core, it has gotten more comfortable and I expect as I continue to drop down to 200, it’ll be more so.
     

    308pirate

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    5’8“, 210lb. I have noticed since loosing about 5cm off my core, it has gotten more comfortable and I expect as I continue to drop down to 200, it’ll be more so.
    Dang you and I are almost exactly the same size. I'm 5'9" and 200.
     
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    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
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    Awesome input guys keep it coming.

    I'm not thinking of a lot of reverse cant, 10 degrees or less. Look at the natural angle of your strong side forearm and relaxed wrist as it comes up to 1 (or 11) o'clock from hanging down at your side.
     

    PBWalsh

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    One thing to add about cant. At 0*, I find that I can reasonably quickly draw using my left hand only if my right hand went down. Its not going to break any speed records, but I think I’d be slower with my left hand with a cant.

    Lift shirt, reverse grip on pistol grip, roll the top of the slide to the left of your person on stomach, bring gun up to target, pew pew.

    Just something to consider.
     

    Choid

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    Personally, I like soft loops to a hard clip. With a wedge and a wing. No cant, no sweat guard. But I am 5'11 180 and have a 31 inch waist, so my comfy spot will be different, with regards to cant, roll and everything else. I'd hit JM Custom up for advice. They know their shit.
     

    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    Personally, I like soft loops to a hard clip. With a wedge and a wing. No cant, no sweat guard. But I am 5'11 180 and have a 31 inch waist, so my comfy spot will be different, with regards to cant, roll and everything else. I'd hit JM Custom up for advice. They know their shit.

    Soft loops are a definite no go.

    I need the ability to *quickly* put this on while seated in a vehicle and soft loops are not it. BTDT.
     

    308pirate

    Gunny Sergeant
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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    With a wedge

    What's the purpose of them? Just a cushion to keep the bottom of the holster from digging into you? Or do they have other benefits (better concealment, easier draw, etc)?
     

    Choid

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    What's the purpose of them? Just a cushion to keep the bottom of the holster from digging into you? Or do they have other benefits (better concealment, easier draw, etc)?
    The grip, with a full mag, get heavy and wants to flop over your belt sometimes. The wedge helps keep it back. Also you can get hot spots from the kydex and it is more comfy. Darkstargear sells some nice wedges for a few bucks that have a finished edge and don't look like a pack rat chewed on part of your holster.
     
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    Rancid Coolaid

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    Wedge need is based on body shape; if you carry extra weight in the middle, the wedge will help keep the gun uncomfortably pressed into your fat.

    I run a M17 with light and Shield RMS and it rides in a stock Tier1 with no wings or wedges. It mounts/dismounts easily and hides well under a tee shirt. If I add 20 pounds, none of the above would be true any more, so keep up your cardio and don't get fat.

    Wings and wedges and cant are all about what works for you and what does not. The trick is to train like you fight, which usually doesn't involve a bench, a casual reload, and lots of comfort and time.

    Everyone will offer lots of advice, but none of them die if you fuck up, just an observation I've been making for a few years. Find what works for you, then train train train.
     

    Choid

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    Henry Holsters Flint AIWB. Yea or nay?
    It looks fine, but my experience is that we all end up with a bunch of holsters trying to figure out the most comfy.
     

    ballisticdaddy

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    I run a 365XL with romeo zero in a g-code phenom holster, single clip, with claw, adjustable positioning and comfortable to carry all day.
    IMG_0375.jpg
     
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    Odysseus1911

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    I've EDC'd a full size 1911 AIWB for the last 6 years.

    AIWB brings some unique obstacles. Even with the best holsters, muzzle area of the holster is going to occasionally dig into generally more sensitive areas of your body. With its 5" barrel, my 1911 extends down to the top of the testicular area. As a result of a few initial unpleasant thumps, I've learned to slightly adjust the way I enter and exit vehicles. Not a big deal and now I do it without thinking about it. Your barrel is at least an inch shorter, so that's probably not a concern, but while seated, your muzzle may dig into your pubic bone. All this to say, with appendix holsters, it really pays dividends to buy custom leather. You may not notice the hard, sharp edges of a kydex holster or kydex belt clips at the 3 o'clock position, but you will notice them in the appendix position as there are a lot more nerve endings there as opposed to on your hip.

    I use a 5 Shot Leather SME. It is truly all day comfortable. It is the most concealable holster I've ever seen -the "wing" below the trigger guard rides underneath your belt and pulls the butt of your gun tight into your body to reduce printing. Even under a tight shirt, it doesn't really print. And it "swims" nicely to find a comfortable spot when you sit down instead of binding on your clothing or skin and gouging you.
    http://www.5shotleather.com/sme.htm

    Here's mine:

    FFA638C9-2417-4593-AA8A-2341885251A4.png
    0D2A3106-EBFE-4884-92FD-19532DE90F84.jpeg
     

    rothgyr

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    I've been running AIWB for almost 5 years now with four guns (XDS, Shield, P99 AS, and P99C) and here's my bigger takeaways. Assuming your belly isn't 101% flat, ride height determines the need for a wedge and cant. I have a little bit of fat on my stomach that my XDS with a deep carry and no cant would disappear under. With my P99C, it rides a bit higher, same with the XDS in a Vedder holster, and the grip part of the gun and rear of the slide would lean out, printing pretty grossly. This is fixed with a wedge. For my P99 AS, the barrel is long enough, and I carry it with a light as well, that the long end of the gun presses against my body enough to keep the rear of the gun pressed firmly against my belly.

    I don't carry with a Cant, as it tends to follow the contour of my belly and it prints something fierce.
     
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    Vodoun daVinci

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    I run/carry AIWB with a few different guns...usually a full size Beretta Px4. Double stack...

    That said I had to lose 30 pounds to do it and now it rocks. Simple truth is that a big middle is not gonna work with Appendix Carry. Straight up/no cant is the best for me. I run High Noon Kydex or leather exclusively -



    Px4_HighNoon.jpg




    I carry just right of center (right handed) Zero cant. I *do* make a custom wedge with a piece of foam rubber and vet wrap to push the muzzle of the gun against my abdomen and into my body to keep it tight to my body. Lift the shirt and pull the pistol even when seated...but I'm 64 and lean in the middle.

    IMO (no offense) Appendix will not work for a roll in the middle, even a little, unless you love it poking and rolling the butt of the gun out like a growth above the belt.

    VooDoo
     
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    PBWalsh

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    Yep, AIWB promotes less body fat. Another huge plus of it. I also call it a “food meter”. If I get to eating more than I need, I get an x300 light poking me!

    Due to the size of my S2, I usually hitch up my pants a hair while sitting like a user above wrote.
     

    mgrs

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    Have tried a few holsters but still have a Fricke Archangel and RCS Eidolon. Appendix carry 95% of the time- it is a lot more comfortable and easier to conceal.

    Observations-
    -De-horning and rounded edges are nice to have
    -Wedge works, but cost (added bulk) and benefit (inward pressure) tradeoff is based on body type
    -Belt claw is useful for keeping the entire assembly in place, but is less comfortable.
    -Prefer zero or slight muzzle-in cant.

    Eidolon has a lot more options and can conceal a bit better depending on how it is set up, but I use the Fricke most of the time. Just a much more comfortable, secure, and more durable holster.
     
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    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    IMO (no offense) Appendix will not work for a roll in the middle, even a little, unless you love it poking and rolling the butt of the gun out like a growth above the belt.

    I wish I could say I am as lean as I was in my 40s but that's not so now. But I'm also not a fat ass.

    I may just buy the cheapest thing I can find with a claw and no cant to give it a go.

    If it can't be done, then more aerobics for me.
     

    PBWalsh

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    I wouldn’t worry tooooo much about fat. I’m around 21% body fat and can do it. As long as you don’t have a gut you should be just fine.
     
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    newguy2k3v2

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    I know you said plastic clips but I'm a full convert to discreet carry concept clips now. I have a couple appendix rigs, t1c axis, phlster and a las concealment saya 2.0 and they're all pretty easy to slip in or out sitting in the truck. The clips just grab the belt so much better and keeps it in place better than plastic.
     
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    NHR

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    I've been carrying AIWB for about 10 years now.

    Body type drives a lot of the subtle variations you see in holster design. I've lost ~50 lbs since I started carrying AIWB and my holster preference changed as well.

    As I've lost weight I've moved the holster closer to my centerline. Now I prefer narrower belt attachment layouts that don't interfere with the button on my pants.

    Personally foam wedges haven't worked for me. Wings have been awesome, but I often need to reduce them as they are too aggressive and rotate the gun too much.

    Both JM Custom Kydex and Dark Star Gear make exceptional AIWB holsters. I have both and use both regularly. My preferred attachment is the DCC monoblock clip as it's the easiest to get ON quickly, and while sitting, but still very secure and low profile.

    Forgot to mention length. Also a personal preference/body type thing. I usually carry a Glock 19 in a 17 length holster. Added length adds stability and, for me, causes no discomfort. I can still do a full on china squat or touch my toes, although a 19 length holster does offer a little more flexibility.

    If I were you, I'd order this, with a DCC Monoblock clip, and a pad:

    More thoughts to add:
    I started using thinner/flimsier belts when I went to AIWB. Thick "gun belts" caused more discomfort and didn't play nice with wedges and wings. I also started using belts with narrower buckles to allow carry close to my centerline.
    signal-2020-03-20-114845.jpg

    DSG holster
    Mastermind Tactics belt
    Dale Fricke mag pouch.
     
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    UpSideDown

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    Buy an ANR Designs IWB holster with the claw, and never look back. They make outstanding quality holsters, and are whores for CZ products. I have several and keep buying more. I stopped buying from other major companies. If ANR makes it, I use it.

    Also, the whole 'plunge' into AIWB is more like learning to drive. You suddenly realize that the safe option of walking everywhere sucks ass. AIWB is the only way I concealed carry. You can pocket carry with a concealed-hammer revolver or OWB carry under a coat as other good options, but for any modestly sized gun, AIWB is the best. I carry a Glock 45 and prefer it. Comfy for several hour drives, comfy working, easy to access with one hand while you're getting punched in the face and fighting back with the other hand.
     

    UpSideDown

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    P.S. for the guys that thing a Glock 34 isn't a big enough concealed carry:

     

    308pirate

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    P.S. for the guys that thing a Glock 34 isn't a big enough concealed carry:

    How in the actual fuck is a piece of plastic, a strip of velcro, and a tk lok clamp worth $172?

    LOL
     

    NHR

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    20201110_172745.jpg

    I realized I didn't have a photo of my Dark Star holster with the DCC monoblock. This is my current jam.
    20201110_172940.jpg
     

    M76

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    I'm run a crossbreed with zero cant. The large leather back on the holster disperses the load very well. It also molds to the shape of you body after about a week. It is a little uncomfortable waiting for it to break in but once it does it just falls into place when you put it on. No sharp edges. I drive a lot and the zero cant allows me to draw while seated without having to take my seatbelt off. I feel like the reverse cant could cause you to strike the base of the magazine on the center console during your draw or possibly cause you to hang up on the seatbelt.
     

    Crang

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    Ive tried more setups than I can remember at this point. Wedge for me on shorter barreled pistols (less than 3") and I dont need one on longer barreled 4"+. No cant. Single clip is much more comfortable. Even my large Last Line of Defense holster with sidecar is stable and comfortable with one clip. I ditched anything that had 2 clips.

    Belt selection is key. You want a belt that has a lot of horizontal flex but is very rigid up and down. Thick heavy belts like behind the hip arent comfortable AIWB, cut your hips, leave a large gap, etc. Having one infinitely adjustable is key as well to cinch up. Ive been on a quest for the perfect AIWB belt for some time and hands down the Specialist Belt does it best https://www.mastermindtactics.com/shop/
     

    PBWalsh

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    @308pirate

    JMCustom, Tier 1, T-Rex Arms, Red Hill Tactical, and ANR all have IWB/AIWB holsters for your CZ P-07. My current concealed carry holster is from ANR and it works fine. I have CZ S2 holsters from T-Rex and RHT as well, both of which are superior in quality to ANR.
     
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    NHR

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    @308pirate JM Custom Kydex had a very similar build. I have a Dark Star for my 19 and JMC for my 43. Also have a JMC for a 19+TLR7. Both companies have great CS and quality products.
     
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    308pirate

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    For belts all I wear now are either an Ares Aegis or a Recycled Firefighter Dual Layer. Both are very stiff in compression but not too stiff in torsion

    I have two Wilderness Instructor belts but hardly ever use them any more. A little too soft in torsion (twist), but maybe that's best for appendix?

    How about these holsters?

     

    GordonsGarage

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    I'm 5'10", 170ish, g19 with a tlr7, bravo concealment holster ( tlr1 cut that I heated up and reformed to the tlr7).
    My take aways:
    You don't have to be thin but it helps.
    2 clips are a must for me.
    At first you'll say hell no to this, minor tweaks and adjustments are huge with aiwb.
    Personally I run my gun really high so it stays parallel with my torso when sitting, lower and when I sit it's in my ribs.
    Wing/claw thing yes, I need one, but of grip will print if you lean back or wear tighter clothes.
    Get over the weirdness of a 9mm pointing at your junk, but be very careful when reholstering.
    If you wear your pants a tad higher it helps get the gun out of your torso/leg fold line.
    Buckle your belt on the side so it less in the way up front.
    If running two clips, get used to unzipping and using the weiner flap on your briefs, unbuttoning sucks.
    20200827_193445.jpg

    20200827_193511.jpg
     
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    308pirate

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  • Apr 25, 2017
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    I'm 5'10", 170ish, g19 with a tlr7, bravo concealment holster ( tlr1 cut that I heated up and reformed to the tlr7).
    My take aways:
    You don't have to be thin but it helps.
    2 clips are a must for me.
    At first you'll say hell no to this, minor tweaks and adjustments are huge with aiwb.
    Personally I run my gun really high so it stays parallel with my torso when sitting, lower and when I sit it's in my ribs.
    Wing/claw thing yes, I need one, but of grip will print if you lean back or wear tighter clothes.
    Get over the weirdness of a 9mm pointing at your junk, but be very careful when reholstering.
    If you wear your pants a tad higher it helps get the gun out of your torso/leg fold line.
    Buckle your belt on the side so it less in the way up front.
    If running two clips, get used to unzipping and using the weiner flap on your briefs, unbuttoning sucks.
    View attachment 7473978
    View attachment 7473979

    Does the holster that you're wearing have a wing? The butt of that pistol looks like it will print like a motherfucker.

    The more I look at what y'all are doing the more I think 2 o'clock will work better for me.
     

    GordonsGarage

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    308pirate, it does not have a wing thing but it definitely needs one, and yes it does print sometimes, my glorious man titties tend to make my shirt kind of drape over my mid section so most of the time it's not an issue. I typically push it a little closer to center and cant the but end more towards center rather than rolling it down and away from center like some are mentioning.
    2:00 didn't work for me, my shirt get's tighter on the sides and prints more, seemed like it dug into my ribs more there as well, but I'd definitely give it a try and see.
     
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    MojoNixon

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    I've been running a Phlster Spotlight with claw, no wedge, with my comped G19 with TLR-1 HL for about 5 years. Single pull the dot loop, just off of centerline on a Mean Gene belt. Yeah it's thick and stiff, but it works for me. Also my backup mag is an OEM Glock 24 rounder with an Arredondo +3. Occasionally I carry 2 of those. Both in JMCK AIWB pouches. 6'3" 195. I think being as, uh, slender, as I am helps with the comfort level.
     
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    JLP83

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    The wing/claw whatever you want to call it works as advertised. I usually carry a G19 aiwb just right of center and it doesn't print with just a t-shirt.
     
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    NHR

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    As I've lost weight I've moved the gun closer and closer to my centerline.

    Broader chest and shoulders are helpful for concealment. Wings work great. For a G19 I have to reduce the size of the typical wing because it's too aggressive.

    Thinner guns work better, and the difference is more meaningful the thinner you are.

    I like closed end holsters as the open one's can dig/poke pretty bad if you don't have a piece of foam on the muzzle.

    Buy a JM Custom holster and be done with it.
     
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    Jackwagon

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    I can vouch for T-Rex, Red Hill, and Muddy River Tactical. That said, I have a couple of custom holsters from Odin Holsters that I love. I would go the custom route for sure.

    Also, the belt is key. I’ve got carry belts from at least 8 companies. My favorite is the Nexbelt brand. Light weight, rigid, and I really like their ratchet system. Fits perfect every time.
     

    clcustom1911

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    Dang you and I are almost exactly the same size. I'm 5'9" and 200.
    I'm 5'9, 185/190, 33-34 waist

    I run a SpetzGear Appendix Combo...


    Single injection molded clip with mag on the sidecar, no wedge/pad. I actually carry a G45, so it's got the 17 size frame and mag.... and conceals really well with this setup.

    Screenshot_20201118-153108_Chrome.jpg
     

    308pirate

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    Update

    The welcome packet to the Ohio State USPSA championsip had a $100 coupon for Priority 1 Holsters so I figured I'd try their straight drop IWB for appendix carry. With $100 I was able to get the basic holster, add a wing, add tuckable clips, and a set of soft loops. All I paid was $8 for shipping.

    This but in grey instead of camo
    1623554996590.png


    Also ordered a set of foam pads from Harry's Holsters for like $17 shipped. All in I'm at 25 bucks so I can toss it in the box o'holsters without regret if it I hate it.

    I ordered it a week ago so it might be a few more weeks before I can try it.

    ETA I can already see that I'm going to lop off all that plastic where the single clip screw holes are. I already know from experience that it's going to irritate the ever living shit out of my right index finger as I get a grip on the gun while it's in the holster.
     
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