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Annealing question with pictures
- Thread starter Shannon Kincaid
- Start date
Yep. The dull orange glow is barely visible with the lights off. Bright glowing orange with the lights on is way too much.
Your first pic shows excessive heat. Much easier when using a torch to see the heat come up in a dark room. You will be able to see red start that you won't see when the lights are on.
Alan
Alan
Echoing what others have said, and adding what little I do know, that first picture shows too much heat.
You've got the right idea though for a quick and dirty method of annealing on the cheap. Only things I would add would be shut the lights off (as stated by others), a deep socket to hold the brass (exposes only what needs to be annealed and serves as a heat sink for the rest of the case), and a pan/bowl of water to dunk the brass into after reaching temperature.
The above isn't the most consistent method of annealing, but is about the best you can do without dumping money into dedicated annealing setups.
You've got the right idea though for a quick and dirty method of annealing on the cheap. Only things I would add would be shut the lights off (as stated by others), a deep socket to hold the brass (exposes only what needs to be annealed and serves as a heat sink for the rest of the case), and a pan/bowl of water to dunk the brass into after reaching temperature.
The above isn't the most consistent method of annealing, but is about the best you can do without dumping money into dedicated annealing setups.
I dont know where to start.
The cabinets.....the countertop......
Get an AMP if you want to anneal. Everything else is guessing.
The cabinets.....the countertop......
Get an AMP if you want to anneal. Everything else is guessing.
We all learn the same way, by doing. And I would say you're smarter than most for posting pictures and asking the more experienced folks here. And you got a fire extinguisher in hand, which you may need if you keep it up. lol
Not everyone can afford a $1,000 annealing setup. And many great shooters have used the same drill/socket method you're trying including a recent 50 BMG world champion I spoke with on the phone. But it will take some practice and patience. Consider adding a metronome app to your phone.
Hopefully a few folks that are employing the same method will take the time to chime in. I'm in the lazy but somewhat broke camp, so I bought an Annealeez ($275) a few years back which I have really enjoyed. Solid product with incredible customer service if you need it.
Not everyone can afford a $1,000 annealing setup. And many great shooters have used the same drill/socket method you're trying including a recent 50 BMG world champion I spoke with on the phone. But it will take some practice and patience. Consider adding a metronome app to your phone.
Hopefully a few folks that are employing the same method will take the time to chime in. I'm in the lazy but somewhat broke camp, so I bought an Annealeez ($275) a few years back which I have really enjoyed. Solid product with incredible customer service if you need it.
The German brother that made me laugh it's a work in progress....they are ugly ill admit that....this is off topic but the winter project is new counter tops and paint the cabinets...I knew that was coming
Looks reasonable (maybe a bit bright orange) but really just get some Tempilaq. I run my Skip design annealer so the 750 burns off about 5 sec before the case leaves the flame.
I use a home made system that has holders for each torch head and a spinning holder for the case. I set up the torches away from the case. It takes longer to anneal this way, but gives you more latitude in terms of time. I'm able to watch the color change and get very consistent results.
Would an AMP annealer be better? Yes.
Is is ~$1300 better? No.
When I consistently get low single-digit SDs (<5), I don't think an AMP would improve on that much. Would I like one for the ease/time aspects? Sure.
Would an AMP annealer be better? Yes.
Is is ~$1300 better? No.
When I consistently get low single-digit SDs (<5), I don't think an AMP would improve on that much. Would I like one for the ease/time aspects? Sure.
To check what you are achieving you can check the following. If you overdo the heating of the mouth the bullets will not stay in place as the brass will have no springback. If you try and crush the bottom above the rim with pliers and its not difficult your method overheated the base and softened the brass.
In either case too much heat for too long.
In either case too much heat for too long.
imo, annealing by hand and not using some type of machine will not create a CONSISTENT anneal from case to case = no consistent headspace bump = no consistent neck tension as it only takes a split second in the flame to make a inconsistent anneal from piece to piece... here is my method to my madness
My annealers & how to use them ELFSTER style!: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCyPEnjRX7eajNOfr4lPHE89ltsBS3sQ_
My annealers & how to use them ELFSTER style!: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCyPEnjRX7eajNOfr4lPHE89ltsBS3sQ_
This sums it up, exactly. I been thru the flame stuff and the amp is the wtg. Otherwise, you dont know waht you dont know til you run the amp with Aztec
Not sure if I'd go as far as saying if you're not using an AMP that you're guessing. The AMP is hands down the best but not everyone can afford something like that. IMO you just need a method that will consistently remove the brass out of the flame consistently once you get thr flame and timer set up correctly.
I made one like this and it's been great. Really consistent control of time in the flame. I'll get around to posting on it one of these days. I can anneal 150 cases in about 20 min
If you're sticking with the manual drill method, get Tempilaq and a timer or metronome, that will work fine.
If you're sticking with the manual drill method, get Tempilaq and a timer or metronome, that will work fine.
WTF too hot.
if you don’t have a consistent method with a machine I say don’t do it.
it’s hard enough with the Giraud and Tempilaq. Or benchmark or whatever
I would not even attempt the drill method now, knowing what I know from messing around over the years
There’s a guy on here you can send brass to and he’ll do it for you for a fee
if you don’t have a consistent method with a machine I say don’t do it.
it’s hard enough with the Giraud and Tempilaq. Or benchmark or whatever
I would not even attempt the drill method now, knowing what I know from messing around over the years
There’s a guy on here you can send brass to and he’ll do it for you for a fee
I have a Benchsource and that seems to work for me. Definitely need tempilaq to be sure desired temp is reached. If you buy Tempilaq, I would recommend getting their thinner as well. Tempilaq dries up and you’ll need the thinner.
Annealeez machine seems like a good deal. AMP maybe in future for me though.
Annealeez machine seems like a good deal. AMP maybe in future for me though.
My opinion won’t be popular here based on most of the guys above but I’ll tell you how I did it for a lot of years with very good results on target.
First I ditched the drill for a powdered screwdriver. The speed is way more appropriate for annealing and your finger won’t get tired from trying to not go too fast.
Ditch the case holder for a close fitting socket. Some cases will do well with a deep well and some will need a standard depth. Much easier to get cases in and out and keep the pace up a little.
A nice steel pan to drop the hot cases on is nice to have.
With the flame perpendicular to the case, aimed at the body/shoulder junction. I ran cases until they were a full orange on the entire neck in a very dimly lit room. Like almost so dark that you can’t see. Your eyes will adjust and the flame gives off light while you’re working. Once the proper heat is achieved, dump it in the steel pan and start another one. You can count in your head or use a metronome if you need to. Not all cases will take the exact same amount of time. Sometimes you’re not in the exact same spot in the flame, or the neck is a little thicker or thinner.
It doesn’t have to be perfect to work.
First I ditched the drill for a powdered screwdriver. The speed is way more appropriate for annealing and your finger won’t get tired from trying to not go too fast.
Ditch the case holder for a close fitting socket. Some cases will do well with a deep well and some will need a standard depth. Much easier to get cases in and out and keep the pace up a little.
A nice steel pan to drop the hot cases on is nice to have.
With the flame perpendicular to the case, aimed at the body/shoulder junction. I ran cases until they were a full orange on the entire neck in a very dimly lit room. Like almost so dark that you can’t see. Your eyes will adjust and the flame gives off light while you’re working. Once the proper heat is achieved, dump it in the steel pan and start another one. You can count in your head or use a metronome if you need to. Not all cases will take the exact same amount of time. Sometimes you’re not in the exact same spot in the flame, or the neck is a little thicker or thinner.
It doesn’t have to be perfect to work.
As above it can be done esp if guided by Tempilaq or a dark room. There are 4 consequences of getting it wrong. I am on record saying it don’t need to be ‘perfect’ but.....
1. overdone neck unalterably removes tension. Do it on purpose and squeeze neck with your bare fingers and you’ll see what I mean. Brass permanently softened now. Compare to normal case. What was the point of it if that’s the result?
2. overdone and base got too hot. Case permanently destroyed
3. Under annealed - I did thousands I’m guessing on the Giraud like this because I was worried about 1&2. With this, you just wasted a giant pile of time. What was the point if that’s the result
4. Inconsistent anneal leading to inconsistent neck tension. No point in that either
problem is, without a consistent technique, you don’t know what you’re getting as a result and how much of 1234 above is in the mix of your batch.
YMMV
1. overdone neck unalterably removes tension. Do it on purpose and squeeze neck with your bare fingers and you’ll see what I mean. Brass permanently softened now. Compare to normal case. What was the point of it if that’s the result?
2. overdone and base got too hot. Case permanently destroyed
3. Under annealed - I did thousands I’m guessing on the Giraud like this because I was worried about 1&2. With this, you just wasted a giant pile of time. What was the point if that’s the result
4. Inconsistent anneal leading to inconsistent neck tension. No point in that either
problem is, without a consistent technique, you don’t know what you’re getting as a result and how much of 1234 above is in the mix of your batch.
YMMV
I just watched a video of annealeez and boy for $275 that looks hard to beat. An ingenious design. I doubt you can do 50 BMG or the Cheytacs on it but most don’t care about that. If I were in the market today for a torch based one I’d probably look past Giraud and get that guy especially since it now has the digital control
