Any reason to stick with a boltgun for .308/6.5CM?

[cityboy_longrange]

I'm planning to purchase a .308/6.5CM precision rifle in the $3-4k range, looking at GA Precision's bolts, but also the GAP-10 G2 and JP LRP-07. I've used my friend's precision rifles plenty and I'm having a hard time deciding whether to go with a bolt gun or not.

I feel that the flexibility provided by a .308 or 6.5 CM semi-auto precision rifle for a variety of shooting, and the little differences between accuracy (note: nothing about ergonomics) means that I can have more use cases for a semi-auto than a bolt gun. But given that I'm not firing off more than 1 round like every 10 seconds anyways with or without a bolt makes me wonder. Can I gather some thoughts from people here? Would be much appreciated as someone who's well-versed with firearms but not precision long range shooting.

I do plan to push myself beyond the conventional 800-1000 yards which would make 6.5CM viable, not sure if that matters when talking about bolt/semi-auto.

 

[Sogan]

A semi is harder to shoot well. Not impossible but you have to be consistent and really drive the gun. A bolt gun will be more forgiving but they both have their place

 

[diverdon]

Ummm, both!

 

[HousePlant]

If can quickly go to 500 with my off the shelf Ruger AR-15 using match ammo and a Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6x tactical scope that came with a mount in a package deal... you'll be fine with semi auto if you want to use one instead of a bolt. I just find a bolt more satisfying to use, more simple to understand, and I for some reason LOVE the sound actuating the bolt makes with the cartridge falling to the table/floor (weird, I know). It also kind of annoys me that I have a gun that'll fire 20 rounds pretty quick and I only need to fire one or I'm only allowed to fire one per second (at ranges).

If I had my own 1,000 acres where I could shoot guns naked all day long, I'd probably have more semis.

 

[jcmullis2]

If you can only afford 1 get the bolt. They’re typically more dependable with less moving parts.

 

[theLBC]

what other rifles do you have?

 

[acudaowner]

they only reason for doing anything is that you want it . unless someone else buys it for you as in a gift or is forcing you to use one vrs the other . I find for me the self control lacking when I shoot my ar's i tend to go through more ammo and a lot faster with a semi auto than I do with my bolt guns . I also tend to think that my bold guns are maybe a little more accurate than my semi auto's but have no facts to point to as any type of facts . I guess which ever you get you will have to make your own decisions on which you like more . good luck may which ever style or caliber gun you get much success .

 

[Cherodjr]

Ummm, both!

THIS!

 

[Dai Bando]

I can't stand gas guns especially the large frame versions.

I'll take a bolt gun everytime.

 

[deersniper]

Get both.

But bolts are easier and more enjoyable to shoot.

Semis will exploit any weakness in your fundamentals and follow through.

A semi is more enjoyable when there is a group of varmints in front of you. Helps with the runners also.

 

[siscoe308]

I have an LPP-07 in 308(20in barrel/ 5-20XUS/ TB Ultra 9) and that rig has sold 2 AR-10’s & several Thunderbeast cans to ppl who shot it once & fell in love.

It is stupid fun...fairly easy to shoot (not as easy as a bolt gun admittedly) but if you are a halfway decent shot, you will have zero issues going under the magic MOA mark.
Hard on brass but that’s expected for a semi. I’ve had it out to 800 alongside 6br on steel & didn’t feel I was Giving up anything.

Id say it depends on what you want out of a gun. If you absolutely the smallest groups, I’d say the semi isn’t the gun. While completely capable of tiny groups, it’s more effort.
If you are banging MOA+ Steel out to 600-700 yds (further while the 6.5) they are insanely fun.

Bolt guns are a dime a dozen. All AR’s are going to be a hot commodity here shorty (I’m afraid, hopefully I’m wrong)

 

[siscoe308]

I have an LPP-07 in 308(20in barrel/ 5-20XUS/ TB Ultra 9) and that rig has sold 2 AR-10’s & several Thunderbeast cans to ppl who shot it once & fell in love.

It is stupid fun...fairly easy to shoot (not as easy as a bolt gun admittedly) but if you are a halfway decent shot, you will have zero issues going under the magic MOA mark.
Hard on brass but that’s expected for a semi. I’ve had it out to 800 alongside 6br on steel & didn’t feel I was Giving up anything.

Id say it depends on what you want out of a gun. If you absolutely the smallest groups, I’d say the semi isn’t the gun. While completely capable of tiny groups, it’s more effort.
If you are banging MOA+ Steel out to 600-700 yds (further while the 6.5) they are insanely fun.

Bolt guns are a dime a dozen. All AR’s are going to be a hot commodity here shorty (I’m afraid, hopefully I’m wrong)

 

[Steel head]

I enjoy shooting bolt actions over gassers.

 

[Roslyn]

I shoot a 6.5CM bolt gun, chambered by Spartan Rifles and a 6.5CM JP LRP-07. I reload for the bolt gun, use Eagle Eye for the JP. The Spartan is a quarter minute rifle running 140 Berger hybrids, the JP is a half minute rifle with the older Eagle Eye 130 gr rounds. The JP shoots those rounds in a very tight water line even at distance. Eagle Eye has since moved to the 140 Berger hybrids, which should improve the ballistic behavior of the JP, but I have no experience with it to judge.

You will give up something on velocity with the JP compared to a bolt gun -- I am guessing even if you reload -- since it is a 22" barrel in the standard configuration. The Eagle Eye 130s run about 2825 fps in the JP, my 140 hand loads run about 2885 in the Spartan bolt gun, which is a 26" barrel. The JP also likes the Hornady ELD-M 140 gr commercial ammunition, will reliably shoot 3/4 minute with that ammo but at a velocity of around 2680 fps in my rig. It doesn't like the Prime 6.5CM rounds for whatever reason.

This is a link to an older article Eagle Eye did on their ammunition in a JP LRP-07: https://www.eagleeyeammo.com/maximizing-long-range-ballistic-performance/ That post includes a comparison chart of various 6.5CM and 6CM loads, including elevation data out to 1000 yards which you may find helpful. I keep mentioning Eagle Eye because it runs so well in my JP, but should say here that I have no relationship with the company other than as a customer.

I am not skilled enough to reliably call a quarter minute of wind at 1000 yards, so for me there is no reason to prefer the bolt rifle over the semi auto as to accuracy. Each is a separate pleasure to shoot and they both perform exceptionally well at distance. The fit and finish on the JP definitely lives up to their reputation, and price.

As others have said on this thread, you will want to have your fundamentals nailed down to shoot the semi auto well. The LRP-07 is a light rifle, and even with a brake it wants to exploit any shortcomings in your execution.

Unless you are especially wanting a .308, I would not recommend a .308 over a 6.5CM, simply because the ballistic performance of the 6.5CM is going to be so much better.

Hope something in there is helpful.

 

[b2lee]

heh...I'm not giving up the muzzle velocity and my insanely good trigger....and I don't like thin barrels....

I do own my share of semi-autos....but to put a smile on my face...give me a bolt gun and a small target that is not visible with the naked eye.

 

[cityboy_longrange]

what other rifles do you have?

No other true precision rifles, but I do own sub-moa AR-15s/piston AR derivatives like the sig MCX, a tikka t3 I purchased for just plinking, etc.

 

[cityboy_longrange]

I have an LPP-07 in 308(20in barrel/ 5-20XUS/ TB Ultra 9) and that rig has sold 2 AR-10’s & several Thunderbeast cans to ppl who shot it once & fell in love.

It is stupid fun...fairly easy to shoot (not as easy as a bolt gun admittedly) but if you are a halfway decent shot, you will have zero issues going under the magic MOA mark.
Hard on brass but that’s expected for a semi. I’ve had it out to 800 alongside 6br on steel & didn’t feel I was Giving up anything.

Id say it depends on what you want out of a gun. If you absolutely the smallest groups, I’d say the semi isn’t the gun. While completely capable of tiny groups, it’s more effort.
If you are banging MOA+ Steel out to 600-700 yds (further while the 6.5) they are insanely fun.

Bolt guns are a dime a dozen. All AR’s are going to be a hot commodity here shorty (I’m afraid, hopefully I’m wrong)

Got it, this was kind of what I was looking for. I just want a practical solution to hitting targets out at long range, and being able to have a gun that can tack drive at 600 yards+. Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it! By the way, does your LRP-07 get really dirty with suppressor use? I've never used a non-piston platform to shoot while suppressed, I know that DI guns shoot really dirty with suppressors.

 

[DownhillFromHere]

I'm retired so I'm at the range at least once, usually 2-3 times a week. Always weekdays, so not crowded and more time to talk.

The large-frame AR guys - the ones who are a little more serious than uncasing the rifle, blasting a few mags at 12" 200-yard plates and squealing like a girl when they hit one - have ranged between "it shoots under an MOA but I diddle with it constantly" to "I've sent this $3k pos back three times and it still won't do an MOA if it doesn't jam." Most are somewhere in the "meh" to "I like to tinker with it" range. And every one of them will tell you that a large-frame AR is a very different beast than the standard.

I wouldn't spend my $ for one because I have plenty to tinker with and obsess over with my bolt guns and reloading for them. I don't want the vagaries and variables of a gas gun. If I need to stick my business in that wringer, I have a really good AR-15 which, with 69 and 77 grain SMKs, satisfies the itch which has happened maybe once since I got into precision bolt rifles.

My $0.02.

 

[theLBC]

No other true precision rifles, but I do own sub-moa AR-15s/piston AR derivatives like the sig MCX, a tikka t3 I purchased for just plinking, etc.

gotcha. as long as you already have zombie attacks covered, then it would be your choice.
if it matters, i am new and have no issues running a gas gun, so you probably won't either.

 

[cityboy_longrange]

I shoot a 6.5CM bolt gun, chambered by Spartan Rifles and a 6.5CM JP LRP-07. I reload for the bolt gun, use Eagle Eye for the JP. The Spartan is a quarter minute rifle running 140 Berger hybrids, the JP is a half minute rifle with the older Eagle Eye 130 gr rounds. The JP shoots those rounds in a very tight water line even at distance. Eagle Eye has since moved to the 140 Berger hybrids, which should improve the ballistic behavior of the JP, but I have no experience with it to judge.

You will give up something on velocity with the JP compared to a bolt gun -- I am guessing even if you reload -- since it is a 22" barrel in the standard configuration. The Eagle Eye 130s run about 2825 fps in the JP, my 140 hand loads run about 2885 in the Spartan bolt gun, which is a 26" barrel. The JP also likes the Hornady ELD-M 140 gr commercial ammunition, will reliably shoot 3/4 minute with that ammo but at a velocity of around 2680 fps in my rig. It doesn't like the Prime 6.5CM rounds for whatever reason.

This is a link to an older article Eagle Eye did on their ammunition in a JP LRP-07: https://www.eagleeyeammo.com/maximizing-long-range-ballistic-performance/ That post includes a comparison chart of various 6.5CM and 6CM loads, including elevation data out to 1000 yards which you may find helpful. I keep mentioning Eagle Eye because it runs so well in my JP, but should say here that I have no relationship with the company other than as a customer.

I am not skilled enough to reliably call a quarter minute of wind at 1000 yards, so for me there is no reason to prefer the bolt rifle over the semi auto as to accuracy. Each is a separate pleasure to shoot and they both perform exceptionally well at distance. The fit and finish on the JP definitely lives up to their reputation, and price.

As others have said on this thread, you will want to have your fundamentals nailed down to shoot the semi auto well. The LRP-07 is a light rifle, and even with a brake it wants to exploit any shortcomings in your execution.

Unless you are especially wanting a .308, I would not recommend a .308 over a 6.5CM, simply because the ballistic performance of the 6.5CM is going to be so much better.

Hope something in there is helpful.

Got it, another piece of really good advice, thank you. The tight groupings of a bolt gun is pretty nuts, one of my friend's GAP rifle shoots 2/5 MOA groups all day. I don't do hand loads but am aware of how it pushes a rifle closer to its limits. With precision shooting, if I do plan to go for more range/more accuracy out of the rifle I choose, I'll definitely have to look into it - not sure if my lifestyle can support the time though.

Yeah, it also seems that the consensus for semi-auto rifles is that the ergonomics and shooting dynamics don't really lend towards the most consistent groupings, I have a couple of sub-moa AR-15s to know that.

As for caliber, I'm still deciding between 6.5CM and .308 because I'd have to drive pretty far out for a range that would let me push a 6.5CM gun to where it deserves. But thank you, your advice was really helpful and I appreciate it!

 

[theLBC]

Got it, another piece of really good advice, thank you. The tight groupings of a bolt gun is pretty nuts, one of my friend's GAP rifle shoots 2/5 MOA groups all day. I don't do hand loads but am aware of how it pushes a rifle closer to its limits. With precision shooting, if I do plan to go for more range/more accuracy out of the rifle I choose, I'll definitely have to look into it - not sure if my lifestyle can support the time though.

Yeah, it also seems that the consensus for semi-auto rifles is that the ergonomics and shooting dynamics don't really lend towards the most consistent groupings, I have a couple of sub-moa AR-15s to know that.

As for caliber, I'm still deciding between 6.5CM and .308 because I'd have to drive pretty far out for a range that would let me push a 6.5CM gun to where it deserves. But thank you, your advice was really helpful and I appreciate it!

if you have the budget, maybe you can look at a Scar 20S in 6.5CM, which is a clean running piston gun that you can get a .308 barrel for a swap in a couple minutes if you want to shoot both?

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[siscoe308]

Got it, this was kind of what I was looking for. I just want a practical solution to hitting targets out at long range, and being able to have a gun that can tack drive at 600 yards+. Thanks for the advice, I really appreciate it! By the way, does your LRP-07 get really dirty with suppressor use? I've never used a non-piston platform to shoot while suppressed, I know that DI guns shoot really dirty with suppressors.

I forgot to mention that......dirty isn’t the right word. SHE GETS ABSOLUTELY FILTHY!!!
Tho the worst malfunction I’ve had was sluggish BCG not closing completely. A lil tap on the forward assist (worth the money if you plan to suppress IMO) is all she needs until you can pull the bolt & give her a wipe down.
That said a JP bolt is a different animal than a stock M4....the coating on the bolt makes for easy cleaning. I’m just lazy....

 

[hellishot]

Depends, some enjoy bolt action and other prefer semi. Is it in your budget to buy both? Or did you want sup’Ed up ONE.

 

[sierracharlie338]

As someone else mentioned, shooting a large frame gas gun exposes all of your flaws in fundamentals of shooting. For what you are saying you want to do with it, you should look hard at a 6.5 bolt gun from GA. I think you will be happier in the long run.

 

[deersniper]

I forgot to mention that......dirty isn’t the right word. SHE GETS ABSOLUTELY FILTHY!!!
Tho the worst malfunction I’ve had was sluggish BCG not closing completely. A lil tap on the forward assist (worth the money if you plan to suppress IMO) is all she needs until you can pull the bolt & give her a wipe down.
That said a JP bolt is a different animal than a stock M4....the coating on the bolt makes for easy cleaning. I’m just lazy....

A chamber/bolt lug brush makes a big difference also.

 

[Gregor.Samsa]

Somewhat analogous to a Manual vs. automatic transmission. Me, I like rowing my own gears.

 

[Criver600]

Shoot both before you buy. The big semi-autos can be a handful, you have the initial recoil impulse, bolt cycle, second rearward recoil impulse, then it pulls you forward, and they want to twist. Love or hate that AR308!

 

[webbslinger]

LRP07 .308 here and currently building a bighorn 6.5 creed - so both. right? The LRP is a fantastic AR- very accurate, and as mentioned gets very dirty suppressed. The bolt wipes easy, and just run it a tad wet. Out to 700ish its solid for me, moving to 1k is more of a stretch, but it gets on steel. The silent capture spring is a great accessory for recoil. The bolt is going to take care of 1k+

 

[Ledzep]

For starters, Gas guns are better in the small frame. I have a 6.5 cm AR10 and it's in that awkward place that's too heavy to be nimble, but pound for pound doesn't come close to bolt gun precision.

My opinion, take it for what it's worth... ARs are 0-600yd options for "precision" work. Obviously a guy can make hits further, but in my experience it's a lot more consistent beyond 600-800yd with a bolt gun. Up closer you can hit smaller targets with a bolt gun.

 

[biffj]

One thing I haven't seen anyone note is brass damage. Even the semi's that are good to brass tend to cause scratches and dings of some sort. If you're using top end brass its tough to see it dinged up at more than a buck a piece. The bolt guns rarely damage the brass and thats a plus. Never been much of a fan of the 308 so I'd go with the 6.5 but thats a personal choice you'll need to make for yourself.

Frank