If anyone here has a 6.5 PRC rifle you know how hard it is to find Brass to reload. You would have a better chance seeing a Zebra walking down your street. The easiest way to get the brass is to find a box of Hornady factory which isn't much easier and shooting it. Then you have some brass. Hornady per their sales representative advised me that they are using all their brass for factory ammo and are not making it available for reloading. I have back orders with a couple of different companies for over a year now, but I keep getting IN STOCK dates pushed back. So, with Lapua and Nosler also impossible to find I took a chance with Gunwerks who had once fired ,100 pieces available for what cost me around $146 with tax and shipping included. They shipped it out too me pretty fast and when I received it the brass was in really great condition. I resized it using Hornady dies, chamfer and deburred, trimmed and had it all ready for loading. I loaded 147 gr ELD MATCH on my first case and tested it on my Savage Ultra Light with Proof research carbon fiber barrel. Thats when the wheels fell off the wagon. It was a no go . The bolt would not close. Tested it on my sons Bergara, no joy. I was looking at 100 cases on my bench that were not going to be reloaded. So I had would could possibly be useless brass. I had reloaded a box of Hornady after I had shot it with absolutely no issues so it was definitely the brass. I called Gunwerks and they were good people and helpful but the Rep said their Brass which is ADG brass is really hard at the base so that their primer pockets wouldn't loosen up upon reloading. They advised calling Whidden Gun Works and having a custom die made. Hmmm, that's not cheap , that's easily over $200. I called Whidden and their Rep told me that this problem with ADG Brass is not new. He said they could make a custom die set which isn't always foolproof and could cause others problems or ream out my chamber. He also said I could send him three pieces and he would see if their standard dies would resize them to fit . The bases on the ADG BRASS were .531, with .529 being the measurement on New Factory Hornady cartridges. Not much of a difference but enough to not let you close the bolt. So I shipped the Brass to Whidden with the hope that a $109.00 standard die might do the trick. So this odyssey continues. The Whidden Rep said they ran into this problem with ADG Brass until Lapua made Brass for the 6.5 PRC. Then people just bought Lapua but unfortunately like I said, impossible to find. Anyone else have this problem?
- Thread starter Mario1961
- Start date
I use Hornady dies to resize my ADG 6.5prc brass & haven’t ran into any problems for my Ruger RPR bumping the shoulders .002” . Since that brass wasn’t fired in your gun are you positive you bumped the shoulders back far enough to fit your chamber ?
Mario:
What is the fired base diameter of brass from your rifle? Are you saying you cannot size the ADG below .531” or they came at .531” from the seller? Because if your die cannot take a case down from .531” to whatever it takes to chamber then your chamber is too tight.
What is the fired base diameter of brass from your rifle? Are you saying you cannot size the ADG below .531” or they came at .531” from the seller? Because if your die cannot take a case down from .531” to whatever it takes to chamber then your chamber is too tight.
I do remember reading about this with both PRC cases was it ever resolved?
Edit: Well obviously not resolved since he is having this issue but I thought I read there was an altered reamer or polishing a bit of the chamber helped.
Hello everyone, thanks for your responses. I will try and cover everyone's questions. My sizing and case prep is nothing unusual. I tumble the cases then run them through my Hornady Custom grade full size dies. I have been reloading for several years but checking shoulders through a comparator is something I don't do. The ammunition I have made using quality components like Lapua , Hornady , Nosler etc... when it comes to bullets and brass has resulted in some really accurate ammunition. I have never run into this problem before. When I called Whidden they were well aware of this problem with ADG brass. They told me that the problem is the really hard brass ADG uses and that it is the base diameter that is the problem. The brass came from Gunwerks at .531 and I ran them through my Redding full size die as well . It did not change the diameter. The Whidden Rep said that in the past in some cases commercial standard dies cannot bring the diameter down on the base and that their standard die might do the trick if not they can build a custom die. Gunwerks Reps said you can ream the chamber but that is something I do not want to do. I have loaded once fired Hornady Brass from a box of Factory I shot with no issues at all. It chambered easily . Whidden said that once Lapua came out with 6.5 PRC brass the calls pretty much stopped because people started using their brass . Some people love ADG brass and swear by it but like anything it doesn't hold true for every instance. It seems ADG brass is particularly troublesome in 6.5 PRC and 3OO PRC for whatever reason. I saw one post here that he had no troubles at all. This Brass was fired through Gunwerks custom rifles according to their reps. I shipped some of the Brass to Whidden ,they said they would see if they can change the diameter running it through their full sized die. I will post those results as soon as I here back from them. Thanks again everyone for your responses and questions. This reloading process is something where you learn new things all the time and getting feedback here is part of that.
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Yeah same here no problems with Hornady Brass
What I really think you need is a body die. I went to body dies on all my Saum/WSM case types. World of difference. Run them thru the body die and then size as your normal operation. Whidden would be correct, the ADG brass is much harder and doesn't size the base as easily as the softer Hornady. This is especially true if you're running loads close to the top.
You might actually have two issues using ADG brass with your proof barrel.
Issue #1- the base expands to .531+ and will not chamber. This is a known issue with the PRC family and some people experience it and others don't. It can happen with Hornady brass as well, first few reloads are great and then sticky bolt/hard to chamber. Alex Wheeler and others designed a reamer to specifically address this problem. Google "JGS 6.5 PRC AW 2 reamer" or Wheeler reamer if you want to find out more info on it. This has nothing to do with the brass, this is a SAAMI spec issue and only impacts reloaders. Those who stick to factory ammo will not have an issue.
I recommend fixing the problem by using AW reamer over getting a custom sizing die. Multiple reports from users who spent the extra money on the custom/small base die and it still doesn't work.
Many are hand reaming the chamber themselves as you are only removing a small amount of metal. This allows you to run any brass in your gun with no issue.
Potential Issue #2- I have two Proof barrels in 6.5 PRC. Both have tighter neck reamer dimensions then SAAMI spec and present a problem with ADG or Lapua brass.
ADG and Lapua have thicker brass- my loaded necks with Hornady are ~.292 and Lapua measure ~.294. SAAMI spec is .298 (going off memory) so plenty of clearance. However my proof barrels have a .296 neck and the Lapua brass won't work unless I turn the necks. I contacted proof about all of this and they confirmed I either need to stick to Hornady brass or thin the necks. Just mentioning this in case you solve issue #1 and then find out about the proof/neck issue. The Bergara won't have this problem.
Good luck on resolving this. The issue is not with ADG, they make good brass. You will run in to same challenge with Lapua.
Issue #1- the base expands to .531+ and will not chamber. This is a known issue with the PRC family and some people experience it and others don't. It can happen with Hornady brass as well, first few reloads are great and then sticky bolt/hard to chamber. Alex Wheeler and others designed a reamer to specifically address this problem. Google "JGS 6.5 PRC AW 2 reamer" or Wheeler reamer if you want to find out more info on it. This has nothing to do with the brass, this is a SAAMI spec issue and only impacts reloaders. Those who stick to factory ammo will not have an issue.
I recommend fixing the problem by using AW reamer over getting a custom sizing die. Multiple reports from users who spent the extra money on the custom/small base die and it still doesn't work.
Many are hand reaming the chamber themselves as you are only removing a small amount of metal. This allows you to run any brass in your gun with no issue.
Potential Issue #2- I have two Proof barrels in 6.5 PRC. Both have tighter neck reamer dimensions then SAAMI spec and present a problem with ADG or Lapua brass.
ADG and Lapua have thicker brass- my loaded necks with Hornady are ~.292 and Lapua measure ~.294. SAAMI spec is .298 (going off memory) so plenty of clearance. However my proof barrels have a .296 neck and the Lapua brass won't work unless I turn the necks. I contacted proof about all of this and they confirmed I either need to stick to Hornady brass or thin the necks. Just mentioning this in case you solve issue #1 and then find out about the proof/neck issue. The Bergara won't have this problem.
Good luck on resolving this. The issue is not with ADG, they make good brass. You will run in to same challenge with Lapua.
I bet your problem is because the once fired brass you got was not fired in your chamber. I have reloaded ADG brass that was fired in my rifle without issue.
Thanks for the information. I didnt realize proofs barrels were that tight at the chamber. I found some boxes of Hornady Factory so I will just reload those for now. The 6.5 PRC is one finnicky round .
Yes, if it was fired in my rifle it would definately be a different story. How many times have you reloaded the ADG? Also someone posted my proof research barrel has a tighter chamber than most. May have to stick to the thinner Hornady brass
So the body die has tighter tolerances than a full size die then. Who makes your die? Even the Whidden standard die is $108.00 and a custom $200 with no guarantees it will work. So a body die does sound good.
Redding makes body dies, probably others as well but I use the Redding. Yes, a tighter base tolerance.
Just did a quick search and both Midsouth and Precision reloading have them in stock, $40-50
ok I will check it out. I will probably need it anyway based on what I am reading about brass getting sticky on extraction after several reloads even with Hornady.
Brand of brass on this issue might not be that important. What I can tell you for a fact is I chamber minimum depth chambers and I still use body dies. Makes life seriously easier. One extra step that you will be glad you did.
thank you. Just bought one from Midway!
Just talked to a friend of mine who has been reloading 40 + years, he agrees with you and uses full body dies with all his reloads
NW Valkyrie is correct. It's not a brass issue and it doesn't show up for every PRC owner. If you have a tighter chamber the dies cannot size the .200 line small enough. Alex Wheeler made a reamer that's a couple .0001" larger at the .200 and allows the dies to actually size that part. I've "fixed" a half dozen folks' PRC with Alex's AW2 reamer. They've had no more clickers.
Yep, +1 what @parshal and @NW Valkyrie are saying. I haven’t run into this issue yet, but have one of the JGS reamers on order to do my gun, and several buddies’ guns. It seems like the SAAMI specs allowed too much variation in their specs. So if a reamer is designed to be just a tad smaller than the reloading dies are, you’ll never get it resized otherwise, even though both the dies and the reamers were all within SAAMI specs. The modified reamer solves this problem.
Guys, a body die takes care of the issue. $50 or less.
The JGS 6.5 PRC AW 2 reamer does work to open up the base of the chamber just enough that standard dies work. I think this reamer also opens up the neck a bit to work better with thicker brass. It takes a couple of months to get the reamer, then you can do the cut by hand. There is so little removed that steady hand work and a bit of cutting oil will do the job. Takes less than 5 mins. Then the base of your chamber will be enough larger than your die to allow standard die sizing to work consistently. As already mentioned, there are very thorough discussions about this on Longrangeonly.com It’s worth the time to read through them.
Comparing the AW2 to SAAMI reamer, the neck diameter (.298") is the same. The freebore diameter on the SAAMI is .2645" and the AW2 is .2648".
I've recut by hand four or five chambers. I've only ever seen shavings near the .200 line on the reamer.
I've recut by hand four or five chambers. I've only ever seen shavings near the .200 line on the reamer.
The issue is the toughness of the brass and you need a sizer that sizes .005 down a the bottom the case, opening the chamber helps the sizer do more work
as said above also, but I think most sizers only size .003 down and the new adg brass is tough
as said above also, but I think most sizers only size .003 down and the new adg brass is tough
I am having the same problem with my 300PRC. Mario, did the body die help?
Also, do I replace my FL Whidden die with the body die? ie, use the body die then mandrel size or body die then Whidden die then mandrel size?
Also, do I replace my FL Whidden die with the body die? ie, use the body die then mandrel size or body die then Whidden die then mandrel size?
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