Anyone had trouble chambering the new FGMM 168 or 175’s?

[Omnibuzz]

I too just found this thread and had noticed issues with the accuracy of recently purchased boxes of FGMM 168's I was shooting in my s20 at 300 yards. This rifle with this ammo is usually dead on, but this past session gave some confusing results. The groups were twice what they usually are and seemed to follow no real rhyme or reason in terms of placement. I thought it might have been the rings or a dirty barrel but after checking nothing obvious turned up. I checked the box number against the one posted above and they match. I did notice what appeared to be a gouge inside the barrel but I will need to confirm again once I have cleaned it out thoroughly to make sure it is not just crap leftover from the ammo.

This is the first time I have encountered a problem like this with any ammo, does anyone have any advice as to what I should contact Federal with specifically? The ammo was from a box of 200 so I do not want to waste time shooting this for practice or potentially damage my barrel. Thanks.

Edit: It should be noted, the rounds did not seem to have any trouble chambering or ejecting from what I can remember, it was really just the accuracy I was getting out of them that made me think something was off.

 

[pmclaine]

I'm glad you resurrected it because while my 270 loves the Federal Premium 140gr Berger Hybrid Hunter bullets?...despite the premium price the nickel plated casings look like crap with all sorts of mini dings (and some not so mini).

I also did some ammo testing lately on my DPMS and FN PBR both in .308 which did include some chambering issues with the FGMM 175gr loadings which caused some of the first FTF hiccups ever from my DPMS and abnormally hard closing on my bolt on the FN but the good news is both grouped way better with Winchester's Black Box Match 168gr MK's and when I went to separate the brass when I got home?....that's when I noticed a huge overall difference in the eye appeal between winchester and federal brass...the win brass still looked brand new while the fed brass looked like it was at the end of its reloading life.

Like I said...I'm glad you resurrected this thread because I would've felt guilty about ordering the Winchester 168gr Match without at least giving the FGMM 168gr loading a try but all things considered?...I went with Winchester and I'm not looking back.

Federal needs to get their pooh together and start making ammo that looks like they give a crap.

ill take all the FGMM you want to get rid of.......

 

[mikehill85]

I'm glad you resurrected it because while my 270 loves the Federal Premium 140gr Berger Hybrid Hunter bullets?...despite the premium price the nickel plated casings look like crap with all sorts of mini dings (and some not so mini).

I also did some ammo testing lately on my DPMS and FN PBR both in .308 which did include some chambering issues with the FGMM 175gr loadings which caused some of the first FTF hiccups ever from my DPMS and abnormally hard closing on my bolt on the FN but the good news is both grouped way better with Winchester's Black Box Match 168gr MK's and when I went to separate the brass when I got home?....that's when I noticed a huge overall difference in the eye appeal between winchester and federal brass...the win brass still looked brand new while the fed brass looked like it was at the end of its reloading life.

Like I said...I'm glad you resurrected this thread because I would've felt guilty about ordering the Winchester 168gr Match without at least giving the FGMM 168gr loading a try but all things considered?...I went with Winchester and I'm not looking back.

Federal needs to get their pooh together and start making ammo that looks like they give a crap.

Looks like there is a huge difference in Federal Premium ammo before 2020 and afterwards. I bought 200 rounds of 168 grain FGMM in 2019 for about $0.85 a round. Great quality ammo and shot lights out. This is the first FGMM I bought since 2020 (since Walmart doesn't price gouge as bad as most and I happened to find it there by chance) and I'm embarrassed for Federal, quite frankly. I would be surprised if they didn't at least replace it (we shall see on Tuesday). In the worst case I could bump the shoulder back but factory "match" ammo isn't supposed to be DIY.

 

[HousePlant]

With a case that obviously deformed either someone swapped ammo in the box (unlikely) or Federal needs to know about this and I'd contact them immediately. The rounds I had a chambering issue "looked normal". Yours have a rounded edge to the casing where it shouldn't be rounded.

I wouldn't even want to reform that brass.

 

[JINKSTER]

ill take all the FGMM you want to get rid of.......

Okee-Dokee...I have 39rds of the 175gr SMK's left...$70 + shipping sound fair? LOL!

 

[mikehill85]

With a case that obviously deformed either someone swapped ammo in the box (unlikely) or Federal needs to know about this and I'd contact them immediately. The rounds I had a chambering issue "looked normal". Yours have a rounded edge to the casing where it shouldn't be rounded.

I wouldn't even want to reform that brass.

Yep. I noticed that too. I've never seen cases with rounded necks like that before. It's almost like they skipped a step or something. Anyway, I tried calling today but they were closed. I'll give them a call tomorrow in case they happen to be open (unlikely given it is Memorial day). The cartridges definitely don't look like knock-offs (aside from the bizarre rounded brass, as you pointed out). They even have the blue sealant Federal applies to the bottom of their primers.

 

[stello1001]

Wow! I didn't know there was such a phenomenon going on with FGMM lol. A while back when I bought my 308, I got some fgmm168 to shoot. Some of the rounds did require a bit of muscle to close down the bolt. Nothing excessive but you could feel it a bit.

I'm away working and won't be home until I have no idea when. For those commenting you'll take whatever fgmm we're having trouble with, I'll gladly get a count once I'm home and sell it to you.

 

[mikehill85]

Wow! I didn't know there was such a phenomenon going on with FGMM lol. A while back when I bought my 308, I got some fgmm168 to shoot. Some of the rounds did require a bit of muscle to close down the bolt. Nothing excessive but you could feel it a bit.

I'm away working and won't be home until I have no idea when. For those commenting you'll take whatever fgmm we're having trouble with, I'll gladly get a count once I'm home and sell it to you.

The cartridges I have require so much force I'm legitimately scared I'll snap/bend my bolt handle/gall my bolt lugs chambering them. Not your normal "bit of muscle" which is required from time to time. It feels like I'm trying to resize fired brass using the bolt and would need a "cheater bar" to get the bolt to close. Lol. From the look of the neck/shoulder that's pretty much exactly what I'd be doing actually (resizing the brass/bumping the shoulder back).

 

[stello1001]

The cartridges I have require so much force I'm legitimately scared I'll snap/bend my bolt handle/gall my bolt lugs chambering them. Not your normal "bit of muscle" which is required from time to time. It feels like i'm trying to resize fired brass using the bolt. Lol. From the look of the neck/shoulder that's pretty much what I'd be doing actually (resizing the brass/bumping the shoulder back).

Yeah thats not normal. The ones from my lot will chamber and shoot just fine. You can just tell on some rounds that closing down the bolt on them requires slightly more force.

Still, they are the most accurate factory rounds my 308 has shot!

 

[mikehill85]

Yeah thats not normal. The ones from my lot will chamber and shoot just fine. You can just tell on some rounds that closing down the bolt on them requires slightly more force.

Still, they are the most accurate factory rounds my 308 has shot!

Well, as long as it isn't excessive force, go for it. In my case the cartridges have no clearly defined neck line (the neck is curved). They aren't dinged, don't have any burrs, and appear to be in pristine condition. Pretty bizarre, I must say.

 

[HousePlant]

The cartridges I have require so much force I'm legitimately scared I'll snap/bend my bolt handle/gall my bolt lugs chambering them. Not your normal "bit of muscle" which is required from time to time. It feels like I'm trying to resize fired brass using the bolt. Lol. From the look of the neck/shoulder that's pretty much exactly what I'd be doing actually (resizing the brass/bumping the shoulder back).

I would not chamber the rounds that have this deformed case. Don't introduce any chance of danger to self or damage to your rifle... it's not smart.

 

[mikehill85]

I would not chamber the rounds that have this deformed case. Don't introduce any chance of danger to self or damage to your rifle... it's not smart.

Thanks for the advice. I am definitely not going to force my gun to chamber this ammo. There's clearly something seriously wrong with it. I am going to get a hold of Federal and let them know about this as soon as I possibly can.

 

[mikehill85]

I too just found this thread and had noticed issues with the accuracy of recently purchased boxes of FGMM 168's I was shooting in my s20 at 300 yards. This rifle with this ammo is usually dead on, but this past session gave some confusing results. The groups were twice what they usually are and seemed to follow no real rhyme or reason in terms of placement. I thought it might have been the rings or a dirty barrel but after checking nothing obvious turned up. I checked the box number against the one posted above and they match. I did notice what appeared to be a gouge inside the barrel but I will need to confirm again once I have cleaned it out thoroughly to make sure it is not just crap leftover from the ammo.

This is the first time I have encountered a problem like this with any ammo, does anyone have any advice as to what I should contact Federal with specifically? The ammo was from a box of 200 so I do not want to waste time shooting this for practice or potentially damage my barrel. Thanks.

Edit: It should be noted, the rounds did not seem to have any trouble chambering or ejecting from what I can remember, it was really just the accuracy I was getting out of them that made me think something was off.

Interesting. Did you notice any pressure signs on the fired brass? If not, I doubt it damaged your barrel. It is probably just copper/carbon that you'll get out with a thorough cleaning. It could definitely be shooting inaccurately because (at least in my case) the brass dimensions clearly aren't to spec.

 

[SilentStalkr]

OSorry to resurrect this dead thread but I also had issues with ammo from two boxes of Federal 168 Grain Gold Medal Match (which I found about a week ago at a Walmart in Columbus Ohio). I have a Bergara B14 HMR in 308 and this ammo was extremely difficult to chamber, to the point I'm not comfortable shooting it or putting that much stress on my bolt handle/lugs. This is from two different boxes of ammo with all the same markings on them (see below).

From the rub marks on one of the rounds I got to chamber it looks like the "length-to-neck" wasn't set back far enough. I haven't had this issue come up with any other factory ammo. Anyway, I am going to call Federal on Tuesday (I assume they are closed tomorrow) and let them know about this. I was just searching for this issue with this ammo and thought I'd add to this thread. Looks like the ammo was manufactured in Sept 2021.

Box Flap
View attachment 7880232


Internal Flap
View attachment 7880233



(Left To Right) Hornady Superformance, Offending GMM Ammo, My Reloads
View attachment 7880234


Length-To-Neck
View attachment 7880249

Plz let me know what they say. Believe it or not, I’ve been so busy with other things, I completely forgot about this, but still have boatloads of the offending ammo. If they recognize the issue and would like to swap it out, I’d be glad to do so. They should remedy this. I think I’m sitting on 5000 RDS of the offending lots!!

 

[mikehill85]

Plz let me know what they say. Believe it or not, I’ve been so busy with other things, I completely forgot about this, but still have boatloads of the offending ammo. If they recognize the issue and would like to swap it out, I’d be glad to do so. They should remedy this. I think I’m sitting on 5000 RDS of the offending lots!!

Will do. If they aren't willing to replace ammo that is clearly malformed/unchamberable then I don't know what to say. That said, I'm pretty confident that I'll be able to at least get them to replace my ammo. I have a pretty pristine record when it comes to getting refunds/returns on items like this. I'm definitely not the person you want to get a call from on your first day working in customer service. Lol.

 

[SilentStalkr]

One more thing, for those of you noting issues with this ammo, we’re you shooting suppressed or unsuppressed? I’m just curious.

To make matters worse, you just made me realize that I have not shot this rifle since 2020 !!!!

 

[Omnibuzz]

Interesting. Did you notice any pressure signs on the fired brass? If not, I doubt it damaged your barrel. It is probably just copper/carbon that you'll get out with a thorough cleaning. It could definitely be shooting inaccurately because (at least in my case) the brass dimensions clearly aren't to spec.

I just went to look over the cases from that session and there were no pressure signs that were obvious to my eyes (granted I would not consider myself an expert by any means). I do remember the bolt lift being noticeably stickier than usual but nothing that drew my suspicion, although I was a bit focused on the accuracy issues so I was a bit distracted.

And yes, you called it; the gouge was just leftover crud. Borescoping tends to do me more harm than good in cases like these.

 

[DJL2]

FWIW, I fired FGMM 168 SMK, 185 Jugg, and TRU 168 TMK yesterday - some of the SMK was a little “snug,” but I was able to send them. The TMK averaged 25 fps more and, my opinion, are a better bullet. Sadly, cost per round reflected, but they did feel a little smoother/more consistent. The Hornady TAP chambered easiest of all (and was much hotter than SMK/TMK).

 

[JINKSTER]

So taking clues from this thread I did a comparison of 3 different types of .308 ammo I have on hand (actually I have 4 but the 4th is Pindad Mil spec 7.62X51) and from left to right?....

Federal Power-Shok 150gr SP...FGMM 175gr SMK...Winchester Match 168gr MK

Now they are not level unto each other as they are hand laid against a box to take a pic highlighting the area where the shoulder transitions into the cartridge necks and as noted above the FGMM 175gr SMK is in the middle...I'll let you draw your own conclusions from there.

 

[stello1001]

So taking clues from this thread I did a comparison of 3 different types of .308 ammo I have on hand (actually I have 4 but the 4th is Pindad Mil spec 7.62X51) and from left to right?....

Federal Power-Shok 150gr SP...FGMM 175gr SMK...Winchester Match 168gr MK

View attachment 7880630

Now they are not level unto each other as they are hand laid against a box to take a pic highlighting the area where the shoulder transitions into the cartridge necks and as noted above the FGMM 175gr SMK is in the middle...I'll let you draw your own conclusions from there.

We wanna see them level so we can compare better. Making an observation as they are are in the pic and drawing a conclusion of it would be dumb. Stand them up and line them together.

 

[JINKSTER]

We wanna see them level so we can compare better. Making an observation as they are are in the pic and drawing a conclusion of it would be dumb. Stand them up and line them together.

Okay...I will do that but in my own defense?...there's an obvious condition going on there with the FGMM....a condition I wanted folks to recognize on their own without me inducing any preconceptions that that pic?....reveals just fine and there's nothing dumb about it but I'll set-up and take the pix as requested...here ya go...as set up standing on an old tooling bar...

 

[stello1001]

reveals just fine and there's nothing dumb about it but I'll set-up and take the pix as requested...

Oh I didn't mean to say it was dumb or anything. I just thought me drawing a conclusion based on that first photo was going to leave me questioning whether my mind was playing tricks on me based on the angle or not haha.


But now that I go back and forth between all pics, I kinda see the same thing going on in all of them...

 

[JINKSTER]

Oh I didn't mean to say it was dumb or anything. I just thought me drawing a conclusion based on that first photo was going to leave me questioning whether my mind was playing tricks on me based on the angle or not haha.


But now that I go back and forth between all pics, I kinda see the same thing going on in all of them...

NP and so?...maybe I'm just not catching the camera angles good enough making it an "I guess you had to be there" scenario?...because the differences are pretty obvious as held in my hand so maybe "a hint" at what I'm seeing on my end along with a few pix of what I just did to shore things up for myself...so?....Here is a pic of an unfired FGMM 175gr SMK next to a spent casing of the same...notice the tightened up radius where the brass of the spent round transitions from the shoulder into the neck?....and how there's a lack of form/definition in the same area of the unfired cartridge?....

Now the question becomes was the spent brass "Chamber Formed" (at all) or solely "Fire Formed" or?...a bit of both so?....

Inked and chambered and?...

Ring around the rosey suggests a bit of chamber forming going on but to be honest?...this particular round wasn't all the resistant to chambering and?...maybe it's that tight fit and a slight bit of chamber forming that makes the FGMM so consistent hence accurate for the general factory ammo shooting masses?...also to be fair?....maybe the 175's just have to long of an OAL for the old original 19rd OEM metal box mags that came with my DPMS and that's why they hosed it up with it first ever FTF's?

Oh well...and don't forget to say thanks today to those who sacrificed all for God & Country and pray for those fatherless families they left behind.

 

[mikehill85]

Plz let me know what they say. Believe it or not, I’ve been so busy with other things, I completely forgot about this, but still have boatloads of the offending ammo. If they recognize the issue and would like to swap it out, I’d be glad to do so. They should remedy this. I think I’m sitting on 5000 RDS of the offending lots!!

Update: I called Federal about it. They are having UPS pick up the ammo on Thursday and paying me MSRP on the two boxes. I bought them for about $30 a box and they are paying me $45 a box. Not sure about your situation but depending on what you bought the ammo for if you call them and ask for a refund you may end up making a pretty healthy profit.

Edit: I would note that Federal seemed to be pretty nonchalant about the whole thing which definitely rubbed me the wrong way. In the best case, repeatedly chambering this type of ammo can definitely gall your bolt lugs/damage your gun. In the worst case, if the length to neck dimension is wrong, who can say what other dimensions may be wrong/if the ammo is even safe to shoot. You could have headspace issues, etc., I get that they probably don't want to appear concerned/admit fault because ammo issues can be dangerous but I'm not going to lie, their apparent lack of concern (They didn't even ask for the lot number) pissed me off.

 

[Omnibuzz]

Update: I called Federal about it. They are having UPS pick up the ammo on Thursday and paying me MSRP on the two boxes. I bought them for about $30 a box and they are paying me $45 a box. Not sure about your situation but depending on what you bought the ammo for if you call them and ask for a refund you may end up making a pretty healthy profit.

I checked the necks on random bullets from the boxes I have of the offending lots and they all seem to be pretty well defined. None of the ones I checked have the visual characteristics of the suspected bullets in the pics above, but again I am no expert. I will carefully shoot a random sampling from them this weekend to see if issues persist from across the lots or if it is just a few boxes that made it past QC. Will report back in case anyone in interested. I am hoping it is not all of the boxes because I have damn near 400 bullets from this lot I was able to get at a good price and use this particular load to baseline the multiple zeroes I have on my scopes from. We will see.

 

[Omnibuzz]

I got to test out a few boxes from the questionable lot and discovered that it was really only one out of the random 5 I tested that had ammo with issues. The bad box did not have much trouble chambering for me but extracting required a bit more force than I would like. The bad box also shot significantly lower (about 2 inches at 200) than the others, which all shot almost exactly the same in terms of wind and ele.

From my messing around at least it seems like the Sept- 21 boxes with either 5 or 8 are mostly good but have some bad ammo mixed in. Still not sure how to identify them for sure other than the neck issue pointed out above and a noticeably different performance from standard behavior. Hope this helps.

 

[mikehill85]

Update: Today on the way to the range I stopped by a different Walmart and found 168 Gr Federal Gold Medal Match. The lot numbers weren't the same as the bad cartridges that wouldn't feed (these were manufactured in March of 2022) so I bought a box and tested it today. Not only did they feed great but they shot great too.

See below for a comparison of the two. On the left is a good cartridge on the right is a cartridge that wouldn't feed. It seems very clear that the cartridges which fed and shot well have a sharper better defined neck. The cartridges that wouldn't feed have extremely rounded poorly defined necks in comparison.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone if they run into the same thing.

 

[MikeRTacOps]

Like I stated many times its QC issue with the Fed Match

Mike R.

 

[mikehill85]

Like I stated many times its QC issue with the Fed Match

Mike R.

Yep. If ammo like this is leaving the factory it has to be a QC problem and, like I said, Federal didn’t seem to be too concerned with it, which leads me to conclude it happens fairly often.