Gunsmithing Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to sell?

GasLight

GasLight

That Guy
Banned !
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Minuteman
May 2, 2008
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Bozeman, MT
www.thevaultgunandloan.com
#1
Hello,

I am looking to pick up a Labounty bolt fixture. I have seen where some folks don't like them because there is no way to dial run-out. So, I am hoping that someone has one they would like to get rid of. I know I can get one from Brownell's but they are on backorder. If no one has one, does anyone know where I can pick one up, or who manufactures them?

Thanks for any help!

Dave
 
#2
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Hi

sorry I don't

I use to use my CNC mill for that instead, but also a manual mill would easaly make this with a rotary table.
Håkan

226696_10150307487859408_680984407_9787525_1664591_n.jpg
 
#4
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

I have one, never used it. You want it, you got it. Just pay for shipping. Never mind, I'll pay for shipping. Just PM me your address.
 
#7
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Ive seen first hand they do not work right.(not every time)
Just a friendly warning.

Edited above to say that they dont work *every time*
They may most of the time. But why invest in most of the time?


Ive seen a couple bolts done with great lug contact, and a bolt done with poor contact.

Knowing how the thing works, its easy to see where it can have problems. Like a Tapered Remington bolt, bent bolt, chuck not running perfectly, the list can go on. And unlike other methods, theres no way to correct most of the problems. You indicate it in with a 4 jaw and check it to see if its runnign right. It if is, its good to go. If its not, you cant do anything about it.
 
#8
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive seen first hand they do not work right.
Just a friendly warning.</div></div>

Just curious where the problem lies? I can understand if the bolt had taper in it, or the OD wasn't consistent all the way. I will be using this for a PTG ground bolt... I measured it in several places, and feel that it is very consistent the length of the bolt.. Am confused how this could go wrong if the bolt is good to go?

Thanks

Dave
 
#10
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Appreciate the link, I had already read that thread and other than what I mention above I don't see anything legitimate. In my mind, using this fixture is akin to using a v-block in a mill just like Spuhr shows above. Other than if the bolt is out (not the fixtures fault, and something that should be checked anyway), there is nothing wrong with this fixture that I can see. Other than Keith apparently changing his stance on if it is a good fixture or not, I don't see anything compelling against it.

Dave
 
#11
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ive seen first hand they do not work right.
Just a friendly warning. </div></div>

that's pretty vague. do you have a better description of how they don't work right?

provided your chuck jaws are parallel to your spindle and the tool is made true, i don't see a problem using one on a quality ground bolt body.
 
#12
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Also, to make a note, I have zero intentions of just chucking it up and running it without making sure the bolt doesn't have any runout before doing any work. I actually think I might have a solution to an inconsistent bolt as well... we'll see where we end up here

Dave
 
#13
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

I first was told not to try them. That they didnt work.

I then saw a bolt done with one that had very poor lug contact on one lug.

It makes sense to me that since you can only indicate it in in one way(not explaining that well but you know what I mean), its going to have its faults compared to methods that may take longer, but assure the bolt is running as true as that bolt can.


You better hope every labounty fixture was made perfectly if youre going to use them.

Im talking only about the bolt truing fixture. The action truing method would work fine. But their bolt fixture has flaws. Im sure the job it does will be ok, especially with lapping, but it still has a flaw.
 
#14
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
You better hope every labounty fixture was made perfectly if youre going to use them.
</div></div>

Hahaha, I only need to hope mine was
wink.gif



Like I said above, I will be checking my bolt in 2 places to make sure there isn't any runout before I start doing any cutting on it. I also might have a good idea to make sure you can dial about any bolt in the fixture too, that won't take too much modification...

Dave
 
#18
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I first was told not to try them. That they didnt work.

I then saw a bolt done with one that had very poor lug contact on one lug.

It makes sense to me that since you can only indicate it in in one way(not explaining that well but you know what I mean), its going to have its faults compared to methods that may take longer, but assure the bolt is running as true as that bolt can.


You better hope every labounty fixture was made perfectly if youre going to use them.

Im talking only about the bolt truing fixture. The action truing method would work fine. But their bolt fixture has flaws. Im sure the job it does will be ok, especially with lapping, but it still has a flaw.
</div></div>

what went wrong with the one you saw done? was the fixture not made true? was the bolt body bent? was there a bit of swarf stuck in one of the chuck jaws?

provided the fixture is made true, which it shouldn't be hard to do, why should you need to indicate the bolt body in more than one spot? it is held in the vee and shouldn't need to gimble.
 
#19
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can check the bolt in two places but you are only making adjustments with the 4-jaw right? </div></div>

if he checks in two places and it's reasonably true, he'll know the vee is parallel to his spindle axis.
 
#20
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You can check the bolt in two places but you are only making adjustments with the 4-jaw right?</div></div>

This would be just checking to make sure the labounty is concentric before making my cuts, if it doesn't dial in with the fixture, I will be using a different method, I just don't see how it won't work because my bolt is concentric and consistent diameter....

Dave
 
#22
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just saying what Ive heard, seen, and how I feel.
There is a way to do the same damn thing that fixture is trying to do, every time, cheaper, and just as easy.

ALL things being perfect, the fixture will work in theory. </div></div>

Why are you being so cryptic? I am just asking for clarifications because what you are stating is very vague. It shouldn't be hard to quantify what you are stating. Also, what's the easier cheaper way that works every time? I am aware I could build my own fixture like an action jig. Is that what you are referring to?
 
#23
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

hey dave, didn't you have some sort of precision ground mandrel made a while back? if so, when you get this fixture, can you mount that mandrel in the vee and dial it in dead nuts in one spot and then check another a few inches away? i'd be curious of the results. that <span style="font-style: italic">should</span> tell you if the fixture is good idea or not.
 
#24
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Yes, I will test it with that mandrel.. just realized also that coincidentally that I had the shaft ground to 1/2" as well, so I can use it with Manson's taper bushings and use the same mandrel to indicate an action in the 'traditional' way.

I will post up results when I get the fixture.
 
#25
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Now again Im only talking about the bolt truing fixture.

I dont see why its so hard to see why it may not be right every time you use it or with every bolt.
If you run an indicator along the bolt or use two, and its indicated in, its indicated in and good for you. The point is, that it wont be with every bolt.
Maybe you can use it 9 out of 10 times and do it another way the other 10% when it doesnt run true. I figure just do it one way all the time.

The theory behind it is correct. But everything needs to be perfect for it to work.
 
#26
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I first was told not to try them. That they didnt work.</div></div>

Interpreted as: "I talked this guy, that knows a guy, that spoke to this guy that has a shop smithy, and he said...."

Gaslight, Used with the proper application of practical experience, the LaBounty will do what you're asking of it....
 
#27
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

I've seen first hand that they work pretty darn good. Give Cliff a call and ask him about his fixture. He is a very nice fella and will talk for as long as your willing to listen.

He's been around this game longer than most here. I can't find Cliff's current ph# but you can get it from Jim Dubell at http://www.deltagunshop.com/

Jim's is Cliff's successor in the barrel reboring business. He was trained by Cliff prior to to his retirement, he does Hamilton Bowen's reboring work.
 
#28
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Now again Im only talking about the bolt truing fixture.

I dont see why its so hard to see why it may not be right every time you use it or with every bolt.
If you run an indicator along the bolt or use two, and its indicated in, its indicated in and good for you. The point is, that it wont be with every bolt.
Maybe you can use it 9 out of 10 times and do it another way the other 10% when it doesnt run true. I figure just do it one way all the time.

The theory behind it is correct. But everything needs to be perfect for it to work. </div></div>

i'm still waiting to hear what your 100% perfect bolt truing method is.
 
#29
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Skunkworks... kinda rude. Interpret it any way you want. When I say I was told something, I was told it directly from someone who knows what theyre talking about and has many years experience using it. But again, interpret it any way you want.

300, I said the way I use now is as good as the Labounty, uses the same theory, but can do it the way the theory says every time. And it is cheaper.

If the Labounty is fine for you I'll keep my way to myself I guess.

The Labounty may work most of the time. And I'll say it again.... if you check it and its indicated in, good for you. But it wont be every time. I dont know why thats so hard to understand, and I wont argue with you guys about it. Use whatever fixtures you want I'm just voicing my opinion on them.


If they worked every time like you say everyone would be using them.
 
#30
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Love the younger generations outlook and respect!!! Give them a pc, a little bit of schooling and whatdoyaget?????...an ego, attitude, narcassist mentality and the general idea that a few hrs on a machine, some classroom time will trump years of hands on experience by the 'old' people. Kinda like "they showed us" who was smarter the last election. Ya just gotta admire those who never make a mistake and their way is the only way.

I know I don't know shit about most machining but I have seen some pretty stupid arguements and comments on this forum over the years between experience and NOT!!!!! Hhhmmmmmm seems 'Critter Capper' comes to mind!!!
 
#31
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

300, dont I remember you using a double spider jig to indicate bolts in?

You can see why that is very different than a Labounty right?


Let me ask you this, if you try to indicate a bolt in with the Labounty, and when you check it with two indicators its not running perfectly true, how do you correct it? You cant.

With a double spider jig, you can get any bolt running as true as that bolt can run. Period.


And the double spider jig isnt the method I was talking about that I've been using.



SDwhirlwind, not sure if that was directed at me but Im not rude to anyone on here. I do voice my opinions on some things but I dont call anyone else stupid for doing what they do, nor am I disrespectful. I dont have to agree with you to respect you.


Im amazed you guys dont see the point here. You are trusting certain things when using the Labounty. If any one of multiple things arent right, the Labounty wont work.

Your chuck has to run perfect, your fixture has to be perfectly made, your bolt has to have ZERO taper and be perfectly straight, and you have to be sure you didnt pinch a chip anywhere.


I'll say it once again. The Labounty will work if everything is right, and again if you check it with an indicator and its indicated in(the bolt, not the fixture), its good to go. But it(the bolt) will not be every time, with every bolt. It has, in its design, limitations in the ability for you to indicate the bolt in.

You must see this...
 
#32
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

I just grabbed two customer bolts, randomly, and mic'd em.
Both had taper.


A double spider jig, is the most accurate way imo to indicate a bolt in. It can be done quick if certain things are used and done.

The other method I know of uses the same theory as the Labounty, but you get around using the fixture.


SD, 300, and Skunkworks, do you use the Labounty?
 
#33
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

so, is the method you use top secret or what? i and i am guessing others want to know what it is. unless it is something i have not thought of, i bet i can think of a flaw in it. even the method i use may not be nuts if the bolt body is not straight. it's the best method i can think of using a lathe. i have other plans using a full length vee block vertically in the mill that i may get around to implementing one of these days though.

knocking off the handle and holding it in a collet dialed in to less than a tenth of a red cunt hair is going to be a pretty damn good method. that is unless the bolt body isn't perfectly straight, which is a very real possibility with an oem bolt.

and then there's the whole oem bolt body to receiver fit....
 
#34
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Taper matters because the fixture relies on the bolt having parallel sides. The bolt head will flop around if the sides arent parallel.
The OP asked for a fixture to buy. His question was answered already. I just felt like sharing what I've seen first hand, and been told by people with more experience than I am years of age.

No 300 its not top secret but you can understand my not wanting to divulge it at this moment.


You guys dont have to respect me, listen to me, or like me. I respect, listen to, and like you. And I am paying my dues in every way I can.
I've seen some things done by HIGHLY respected old timers that were straight up wrong. Example? Using a tailstock center in a firing pin hole to hold the nose while truing the bolt. Take a guess at what huge name in this industry put a video out teaching people to true bolts that way. Just because you have years on someone, doesnt mean they dont deserve the time of day.
 
#35
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No 300 its not top secret but you can understand my not wanting to divulge it at this moment.</div></div>

sounds cutting edge. hope you are working on a patent
wink.gif
.
 
#36
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Naw its really simple. Not as good as the double spider, but faster and simpler like the Labounty. And I say "my" way because I use that way. I didnt come up with it. There isnt much that hasnt been done before it seems.

I made my first bolt truing double spider fixture after looking at yours. My buddy made one with an addition/modification done to it and I think thats the way AZP will be doing it. Takes a little longer to get it indicated in, but there's no doubting the end result.
You still use yours?




While on the name Labounty.... I do like their action truing method. It should work as well as a double spider if your tailstock is indicated in and you use a true cut center on the headstock end. It should be running true to raceway as long as the raceway was running true when the pass is made on the collar. Still relies on your chuck being perfect though.
Anyone try it?
 
#37
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
No 300 its not top secret but you can understand my not wanting to divulge it at this moment. <span style="font-weight: bold">How many members on this forum have freely gave you advice and helped you get started in any way they could? Now you reward them with this comment? </span>


And I am paying my dues in every way I can. <span style="font-weight: bold">As stated above 300, Roscoe and numerous other very experienced machinists/smiths have taken time over the years to freely post hundreds of pics and suggestions for me, YOU, and others to learn from and asked nothing for their time, suggestions, advice. Now you are "paying my dues"? To who?? You sure as hell could at the very least PM 300 pics or an explanation NOT? </span> </div></div>

Talk about being self serving and self centered!!!!!

Well seeing as I have no secrets to share I am done with this. Never have been good at ego trips or dealing with others who have them.
 
#39
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Keith, my biggest problem with you in this thread was that I stated up front in my original un-edited post that I understand the limitations of the fixture. Then when you shit in my thread for basically no reason other than to state that these don't work, I further explained that I understood the limitations and asked you to clarify what you were stating so boldly. Instead of qualifying what you said, all you did was get all cryptic about a better way to skin the cat. Seems pretty straight forward. You can get all bent out of shape over it all, but you still have yet to answer the questions posed, so it makes me wonder what your original intent was? I think everyone in the thread understands the limitations of the jig, and no one was trying to state anything outside of that. It just seems odd to me that your only contiribution to this thread is "Ive seen first hand they do not work right." (without any justification) and then "Besides theres a cheaper, Just as easy way" (without any further description).

Thanks for 'paying your dues'
wink.gif
 
#40
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can understand if the bolt had taper in it, or the OD wasn't consistent all the way. I will be using this for a PTG ground bolt... I measured it in several places, and feel that it is very consistent the length of the bolt.. Am confused how this could go wrong if the bolt is good to go?
</div></div>

Youre not going to be using it on aftermarket precision bolts very often. Its supposed to be for truing sloppy Remys with taper in their sometimes less than straight bolt bodies and unround shape.

Why are you even putting one of Kiffs bolts in that fixture? To open up the face?
 
#41
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Are we exchanging answers to questions now?

If you re-read above, I know the limitations of the jig. I also have seen Robert's one setup jig which is very nice. I also have an action truing jig that I could use as a double spider, I also recently made a spider jig for my tailstock that can be used to dial in a bolt, and I am going to attempt to make a spider/steady rest as well. I also believe I have a good idea on how to modify the labounty (again if you re-read what I have already posted above you would see this), and make it an easy to use setup and be adaptable to more bolts than it currently is.

All this said, you seem more interested in defending your poorly worded opinion of the jig, and little in actually contributing or listening to what others are saying.

Stay tuned, if my idea for the LaBounty works out, I won't be holding it as tight of a secret as your jig
wink.gif
 
#42
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AZPrecision</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If they worked every time like you say everyone would be using them.</div></div>

How exactly is anyone saying they work in a manner in which they don't?
 
#43
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to get rid of?

Im done. I have no idea how you're not seeing what I'm saying. Ive made it very obvious what my point is and its true.
With a straight, taperless bolt, and a perfectly running fixture and chuck, it will work.
Remington bolts arent straight, taperless, or consistent in OD 360*. The Labounty lacks the ability to indicate bolts in like some others do. And if its not running true for any number of reasons, theres no way to get the runout out. That should be very obvious to any machinist.
You admitted yourself you can see that it wont work right if the bolt has taper. Nuf said.

I dont know why you are going to cut on a Kiff bolt unless you're opening the face up. Its already truer that you'll get it.



 
#44
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to sell?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GasLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hello,

I have seen where some folks don't like them because there is no way to dial run-out. So, I am hoping that someone has one they would like to get rid of.

Dave </div></div>

Sounds like you already know of the problem. So why so shocked with what I say?
You can not always indicate runout with these fixtures.
 
#47
Re: Anyone have a Labounty Fixture to sell?

I use the fixture all the time. I like it and it does a good job if you set it up correct. When I got it I had to do a little rework so it would do what I wanted. The V-way and the diameter that you chuck on were not in line with each other. I made a .700 diameter shaft that was turned between centers. It is about 1” longer than the fixture. I then clamped the shaft in the fixture and ran the shaft between centers with a dog. I took a skin cut on the diameter that goes in the chuck, the larger diameter next to the V way, and the half diameter at the right hand end. Now everything is running true to the V way. When I use the fixture, I indicate the large diameter and the half diameter. You can only indicate at 3:00, 6:00, and 9:00 on the half diameter, but with all three the same, you are good. I like the fixture because you can cut the bolt face and the back of the lugs in the same setup.
Ray Lawler
Absolute Accuracy LLC
 
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