Anyone Try Berger 109s in a 6 BRA?

[Rocketmandb]

See subject. Trying to decide if it's worth going through a load development exercise.

Also, I'm using H4895 with 105s right now. Wondering if Varget would be a better powder with the heavier bullet.

 

[47guy]

i shot the 109s in mine....dont remember speeds ill check when i get home and let you know but they shot real good just the 105s shot 3 different powder charges under a 1/2" so i didnt mess with the 109s after that.

also the 4895 is probably a little fast for the 109s IMO and varget shot/shoots WAY better in my gun...31.3g varget in peterson brass is 2975 with a 105 hybrid.

 

[47guy]

26" 7.5T bartlien with about 60-70 rounds when i shot these 109s

109 hybrid .020 off
1x fired peterson brass
H4895 FED205M
1 round each check velocity/pressure 25deg
29.9g 2858
30.1g 2889
30.3g 2911
30.5g 2923
30.7 2959 i dont remember but i thing primers were starting to flatten out here.

180-200 rounds through the barrel
109g hybrid .025 off
varget FED205M
30.9g 2897
31.1g 2919
31.3 2931
31.5g 2950

i did not miss with the 109s after this because the 105 hybrids shot so well....i have 2000ish 109s im going to shoot in the next barrel.

 

[Rocketmandb]

26" 7.5T bartlien with about 60-70 rounds when i shot these 109s

109 hybrid .020 off
1x fired peterson brass
H4895 FED205M
1 round each check velocity/pressure 25deg
29.9g 2858
30.1g 2889
30.3g 2911
30.5g 2923
30.7 2959 i dont remember but i thing primers were starting to flatten out here.

180-200 rounds through the barrel
109g hybrid .025 off
varget FED205M
30.9g 2897
31.1g 2919
31.3 2931
31.5g 2950

i did not miss with the 109s after this because the 105 hybrids shot so well....i have 2000ish 109s im going to shoot in the next barrel.

Thanks for posting. I've got the same barrel and run at .020 off with my 105s. I've got some Varget laying around. I might try.

 

[Reload10]

Are these as easy to load for as the 105's?

 

[47guy]

I’m running .005 off with the 105s...is your running lapua brass it will have a bit more capacity...my Smith is running 31.7g varget in a set back brux barrel with lapua brass 105 hybrid he is 2940ish

 

[Rocketmandb]

I’m running .005 off with the 105s...is your running lapua brass it will have a bit more capacity...my Smith is running 31.7g varget in a set back brux barrel with lapua brass 105 hybrid he is 2940ish

Yeah - Lapua @ 30.7 4895, 20 off, 105 Hybrid and 2940ish too.

 

[ballison]

My match set up this season is gonna be a 6BRA with Varget & 109s (if we ever get to shoot a match). I've put a few hundred through the rifle so far, but only a handful at distance. They are showing promise, but want to do some more work with them this week. I know a few other guys are running the same components in the same velocity range (2840ish), and they are really happy with them. If the consistency of the 109s is what they say it is, I think it's worth giving them a look over the 105s.

 

[47guy]

My match set up this season is gonna be a 6BRA with Varget & 109s (if we ever get to shoot a match). I've put a few hundred through the rifle so far, but only a handful at distance. They are showing promise, but want to do some more work with them this week. I know a few other guys are running the same components in the same velocity range (2840ish), and they are really happy with them. If the consistency of the 109s is what they say it is, I think it's worth giving them a look over the 105s.

just curious why you guys are only running at 2840ish?

 

[ballison]

just curious why you guys are only running at 2840ish?

Just like most guys, I spent my first few years chasing speed to beat the wind. In the past year, I've learned that consistency, spotting hits/misses, and in the right conditions, being able to see and use trace, are more beneficial than .1 mil less wind drift. The 109s can definitely be pushed faster (north of 2900), but IMHO, there is no real advantage.

 

[47guy]

Just like most guys, I spent my first few years chasing speed to beat the wind. In the past year, I've learned that consistency, spotting hits/misses, and in the right conditions, being able to see and use trace, are more beneficial than .1 mil less wind drift. The 109s can definitely be pushed faster (north of 2900), but IMHO, there is no real advantage.

gotcha...i might have to see how this works...what your saying makes sense.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Just like most guys, I spent my first few years chasing speed to beat the wind. In the past year, I've learned that consistency, spotting hits/misses, and in the right conditions, being able to see and use trace, are more beneficial than .1 mil less wind drift. The 109s can definitely be pushed faster (north of 2900), but IMHO, there is no real advantage.

Yeah, I go where the nodes tell me to go. With my 300 PRC, I can push 230s close to 3000, and there is a decent node in the upper 29s, but it really shines in the low-mid 28s,

With my 6, I struggled to find the node because it's narrow, and I stopped short of a sticky bolt. Then found one just around said stopping point. I played in the mid 28s with this one, only to be frustrated.

But to your point - speed kills... or can kill... accuracy. So many people are fixated on it, while what the finally accomplish is burning out a barrel faster with less accurate rounds.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Are these as easy to load for as the 105's?

Having not run any, I can't comment about 109s specifically, but having run a number of Berger hybrids through various rifles, I find pretty much all of them relatively easy to load for.

 

[47guy]

Are these as easy to load for as the 105's?

yes.

 

[47guy]

anyone try H4350?

 

[Nimothy]

My 26” 7.5 Bart is way slower than your guy’s 2890 with 30.8 of 4895 with 105h’s. I always get slow barrels it seems

 

[Nimothy]

anyone try H4350?

I haven’t but I don’t think it’ll have the case capacity to get any real speed.

 

[47guy]

My 26” 7.5 Bart is way slower than your guy’s 2890 with 30.8 of 4895 with 105h’s. I always get slow barrels it seems

more likely the lot/powder also keep in mind I’m running Peterson brass which is close to a grain of H2O less than lapua.

 

[47guy]

I haven’t but I don’t think it’ll have the case capacity to get any real speed.

I can get 31.3-31.5g of 4350 in a case with the 109 touching the lands and the powder so Im pretty sure I can compress 31.7-31.9g at .005 off the lands...I’m only looking for 2830-2850ish with 109s in the next barrel.

Im going to run a slow 6 next(or start with)and see what all the fuss is about.

 

[Nimothy]

more likely the lot/powder also keep in mind I’m running Peterson brass which is close to a grain of H2O less than lapua.

I got a sticky bolt at like 31.4. Maybe the next barrel will get a batch of Peterson. Also thinking of doing a proof comp next.

 

[Nimothy]

I

I can get 31.3-31.5g of 4350 in a case with the 109 touching the lands and the powder so Im pretty sure I can compress 31.7-31.9g at .005 off the lands...I’m only looking for 2830-2850ish with 109s in the next barrel.

Im going to run a slow 6 next(or start with)and see what all the fuss is about.

I’ll load 10 rounds and do a quick ladder and take it to the range next week and see about it. But I think 2830 is going to be very hard to come by.

 

[47guy]

I got a sticky bolt at like 31.4. Maybe the next barrel will get a batch of Peterson. Also thinking of doing a proof comp next.

31.4g of 4895? yeah thats warm for sure...most guys running 4895 around here are under 31g...are you running CCI450s?

 

[47guy]

I’ll load 10 rounds and do a quick ladder and take it to the range next week and see about it. But I think 2830 is going to be very hard to come by.

im just going to load 3-5 rounds at 31.7g 4350 and shoot them friday or saturday to see how they group and check velocity...if they dont run the speeds im looking for ill just run the 109s with varget in the next barrel.

 

[Rocketmandb]

im just going to load 3-5 rounds at 31.7g 4350 and shoot them friday or saturday to see how they group and check velocity...if they dont run the speeds im looking for ill just run the 109s with varget in the next barrel.

Please post the results. I don't think I'll go there, but would be interested to hear how 4350 does.

 

[Nimothy]

31.4g of 4895? yeah thats warm for sure...most guys running 4895 around here are under 31g...are you running CCI450s?

I’m settled at 30.8 of h4895 with a 105h it runs right at 2900 maybe 1-3fps over on a hot Texas day and around 2890 all winter I have 3 firings on my set of brass mostly with that load (except for development) I only know a few guys in real life that run a bra, if they do use 4895 most of them are in the 30.6-31gr range on their loads. When I first started in this caliber I used 450’s but have had WAY better consistency with federal 205m. And have since switched all my small primer brass over to those with the same results. In fact if anyone is in Dallas area and wants to buy a bunch of 450’s I got em cheap!

 

[47guy]

Please post the results. I don't think I'll go there, but would be interested to hear how 4350 does.

im not expecting the velocity im looking for but going to try it anyway just to see.

 

[47guy]

I’m settled at 30.8 of h4895 with a 105h it runs right at 2900 maybe 1-3fps over on a hot Texas day and around 2890 all winter I have 3 firings on my set of brass mostly with that load (except for development) I only know a few guys in real life that run a bra, if they do use 4895 most of them are in the 30.6-31gr range on their loads. When I first started in this caliber I used 450’s but have had WAY better consistency with federal 205m. And have since switched all my small primer brass over to those with the same results. In fact if anyone is in Dallas area and wants to buy a bunch of 450’s I got em cheap!

thats about what the 1 guy here running 4895 is running but according to his dopes he is 75-80fps faster...i run fed205Ms as well always shot better than 450s.

 

[Nimothy]

thats about what the 1 guy here running 4895 is running but according to his dopes he is 75-80fps faster...i run fed205Ms as well always shot better than 450s.

Is his a 26” barrel also?

 

[Rocketmandb]

Is his a 26” barrel also?

I should have mentioned in my info that I'm using a 26" barrel.

 

[47guy]

Is his a 26” barrel also?

yes pretty much all we run...
26” Bartlein 7.5 twist heavy palmas

 

[Nimothy]

Same here but I have an m24

 

[kthomas]

I’m settled at 30.8 of h4895 with a 105h it runs right at 2900 maybe 1-3fps over on a hot Texas day and around 2890 all winter I have 3 firings on my set of brass mostly with that load (except for development) I only know a few guys in real life that run a bra, if they do use 4895 most of them are in the 30.6-31gr range on their loads. When I first started in this caliber I used 450’s but have had WAY better consistency with federal 205m. And have since switched all my small primer brass over to those with the same results. In fact if anyone is in Dallas area and wants to buy a bunch of 450’s I got em cheap!

Most I've heard settle between 30.2 to 30.8 grains of H4895 with the 6BRA and 105's. 31.8 sounds really high.

Personally, I'm running the 105's at 2970 fps out of a 28" HV Krieger barrel with 30.3 grains of H4895.

These 109's seem interesting, but between how good the 105's shoot, and having ~4,000 105's to shoot up, I probably won't be trying the 109's anytime soon.

 

[Nimothy]

Most I've heard settle between 30.2 to 30.8 grains of H4895 with the 6BRA and 105's. 31.8 sounds really high.

Personally, I'm running the 105's at 2970 fps out of a 28" HV Krieger barrel with 30.3 grains of H4895.

These 109's seem interesting, but between how good the 105's shoot, and having ~4,000 105's to shoot up, I probably won't be trying the 109's anytime soon.

That’s my findings exactly. But like I said before I got a very heavy bolt at 31.4. but you have half a grain below me and 2” more barrel and I’m almost 80fps lower. I think I truly just get slow barrrels. My wife’s 6creed, my 6.5 creed. And I just picked up my 6gt last week, we will see with that one.

 

[kthomas]

That’s my findings exactly. But like I said before I got a very heavy bolt at 31.4. but you have half a grain below me and 2” more barrel and I’m almost 80fps lower. I think I truly just get slow barrrels. My wife’s 6creed, my 6.5 creed. And I just picked up my 6gt last week, we will see with that one.

It does sound like a slow barrel. I also seem to have a faster barrel then most in 6BRA.

 

[Nimothy]

Y’all think there is a correlation between the number of groves a barrel has and how fast it is? The reason I ask the only fast barrel I’ve ever owned was a proof 280ai prefit. But it was a 4 groove. All my other rifles are 5

 

[47guy]

so for me the H4350 is a no go....32.1g #7 is slightly compressed and only running 2768ish but did shoot pretty decent....#1-30.1g of varget ran 2858ish and #2 30.3g varget ran 2876ish and both shot pretty descent....31.3g varget(same load i shoot with 105s)with the 109 ran 2947ish and shot almost as good as the 105s...i did not shoot any groups with the 31.3g load i just shot them at 600 and 1082...600 was a 4" group holing .5mils for wind.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I finally got around to doing a ladder test with Varget and 109s. No obvious flat spots in the test until the very top. 31.8 and 32.0 of Varget both got me in the 2960 fps range. Unfortunately the 32.0 got me a sticky bolt. I'm going to play with groups at 31.6 to 31.9. This is very similar to what I'm getting with 4895 and 105s (2950-2960ish FPS with 30.6 and 30.7 - 30.8 gets me a sticky bolt.

 

[Nimothy]

I finally got around to doing a ladder test with Varget and 109s. No obvious flat spots in the test until the very top. 31.8 and 32.0 of Varget both got me in the 2960 fps range. Unfortunately the 32.0 got me a sticky bolt. I'm going to play with groups at 31.6 to 31.9. This is very similar to what I'm getting with 4895 and 105s (2950-2960ish FPS with 30.6 and 30.7 - 30.8 gets me a sticky bolt.

Where are you located? is it hot as balls yet? If it’s 95+ out you might able to run that top load, What’s accuracy like? If I remember right I believe there was a good load in my rifle right around 31.4-31.6 with 108’s. Also I tried this bidness of depth testing first with my 6gt. Then doing a ladder. Man it really sped up the process. Maybe something to look into before further testing

 

[Rocketmandb]

Where are you located? is it hot as balls yet? If it’s 95+ out you might able to run that top load, What’s accuracy like? If I remember right I believe there was a good load in my rifle right around 31.4-31.6 with 108’s. Also I tried this bidness of depth testing first with my 6gt. Then doing a ladder. Man it really sped up the process. Maybe something to look into before further testing

I'm in Northern CA. It was warm today (80s), but not hot. I can't really comment on the accuracy since it was just a single ladder. Next time out I'll test accuracy with groups - and I'll compare to my go-to 105 Berger load (30.6 - 30.7 of 4895 depending on temp).

Velocities are very close to what's working with the 105s. If the accuracy is close, then getting the extra BC and the same velocity will be quite nice.

 

[Nimothy]

Agreed, your rifle shoots 109’s faster than mine shoots 105’s. In fact it shoots 109’s at what my gt shoots 108’s. These 109’s if they prove to be consistent these might be a keeper!

 

[47guy]

I finally got around to doing a ladder test with Varget and 109s. No obvious flat spots in the test until the very top. 31.8 and 32.0 of Varget both got me in the 2960 fps range. Unfortunately the 32.0 got me a sticky bolt. I'm going to play with groups at 31.6 to 31.9. This is very similar to what I'm getting with 4895 and 105s (2950-2960ish FPS with 30.6 and 30.7 - 30.8 gets me a sticky bolt.

how far off the lands were you,how much freebore,what barrel length and what brass are you running? im in northern nevada and 4895 was to temp sensitive for my liking....1fps per degree...from 70ish in my truck to 30ish was 38-40fps slower.

 

[Nimothy]

how far off the lands were you,how much freebore,what barrel length and what brass are you running? im in northern nevada and 4895 was to temp sensitive for my liking....1fps per degree...from 70ish in my truck to 30ish was 38-40fps slower.

+1 I see that almost exactly. But I don’t find varget any better in my rifles that I use it in. The velocity difference doesn’t do anything to mess with the consistency of my loads. Also I don’t have those extreme temp differences in a day here in Dallas. It either hot as shit, or cold (at least for a Texan) we only get 5-6 weeks a year that are truely nice. The past few months it’s been relatively cool but seems to be raining on my “range” days, pretty frustrating.

 

[Forward543]

As far as 4895 with 105, first barrel was 31.1 at .020 off in a 26" Rock Creek. It ran 2880. Current is a 26" hawk hill 26" going 2920 with 30.5 at .070" off.

 

[Rocketmandb]

how far off the lands were you,how much freebore,what barrel length and what brass are you running? im in northern nevada and 4895 was to temp sensitive for my liking....1fps per degree...from 70ish in my truck to 30ish was 38-40fps slower.

26" barrel, .025" off. Lapua brass

Here's the full ladder - 85 degrees

30.2 2798
30.4 2820
30.6 2831
30.8 2869
31.0 2872
31.2 2897
31.4 2910
31.6 2925
31.8 2968
32.0 2964 - sticky bolt
32.2 - did not fire this one

I might also play with groups in 30.7-31.1 range.

 

[47guy]

26" barrel, .025" off. Lapua brass

Here's the full ladder - 85 degrees

30.2 2798
30.4 2820
30.6 2831
30.8 2869
31.0 2872
31.2 2897
31.4 2910
31.6 2925
31.8 2968
32.0 2964 - sticky bolt
32.2 - did not fire this one

I might also play with groups in 30.7-31.1 range.

I’ve been shooting 31.3.g varget 105 hybrid Peterson brass 205m primer for 1520 rounds was running 2975...I have not check velocity in awhile but my dopes have not changed...started at .005 off the lands now .017.

might try .005 off or real far off like .050 to .080 both shot great in mine...I had my smith add .080 freebore in the next barrel because.085 off shot so well.

 

[47guy]

this is 3 at 850yds with the same load I’ve shot for 1450 rounds

this was testing long jumps...

this was the .085 off load at 600yds 3 rounds

 

[Rocketmandb]

this was the .085 off load at 600yds 3 rounds

Deep sigh - you're going to make me do more testing, aren't you?

 

[47guy]

Deep sigh - you're going to make me do more testing, aren't you?

What got me thinking about the long jump was the precision rifle blog post where mark at SAP has been running long jumps and my buddy came out with his new BRA and shot

31.1g varget..CCI450..105 hybrids at...
.005 Shot good
.015 Opened up
.025 Worse

Then jump to(we bring a hand press and seating die out once we find the charge weight and seat as we shoot)....
.050 shot good
.060 shot real good
.070 shot better than .060
.075 . This was .270 edge to edge...ida bet money these were not going to shoot well so I went and actually read the article instead of skimming over and it made sense so I tried it...I had my smith add .075 freebore to my next barrel so we’ll see how it works out.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Today I ran 15 rounds at 31.8 gr of Varget/109s. They did not group well and SDs were bad.

I'm going to try dropping the charge weight to 31.0 to play with the other possible node, but as good as the 105s shoot, I'm wondering if it's worth screwing with.

 

[47guy]

if the 105s are shooting good maybe just save the 109s for the next barrel and start fresh with them.