AR15 Irons for 100yd Match

[Budrichard]

My local Club is going to have an Military 100 yd AR series of matches but with iron sights.
My two Service rifle uppers are scoped with a White Oak Shilen barreled upper being the most accurate.
It has a Hi-Lux scope on it at present.
The other supper is a Larue 16” with Leupold Service Rifle scope.
I want to put irons on the White Oak upper for the matches.
The lower has a Geissele National Match rail and trigger.
I am familiar with Standard AR Post and rear aperture and have these sights but I wanted something a little more adjustable and an aperture front. I have used Redfield Micrometer Rear Sights for decades and have all the models except for the Mark10.
But these rear sights were never designed for a pic rail.
Looking at the Ultradyne C4 Combo.

C4 Front & Rear Sight Combo - Ultradyne

The C4 Front/Rear Sight Combo is a dual aperture sighting system that is changing the way shooters think about iron sights. The C4 Rear Sight offers Rock-solid performance in a compact form with a ballistically calibrated elevation system that adjust in 50-yard increments from 200 to 600 yards...

ultradyneusa.com

Does anyone have any experience with these sights?
Does anyone have any suggestions for any other micrometer rear with aperture front that might work on a pic rail?
Thank you for any suggestions!
-Richard

 

[Trigger Monkey]

All the reviews of the Ultradyne sights have been generally positive. @Molon did a review of the sights here so perhaps he can provide some insights, otherwise there are a ton of YT videos and such on them.

Ultradyne Back-Up Iron Sights

Ultradyne Back-Up Iron Sights The new Ultradyne back-up iron sights for the AR-15 are the most innovative back-up iron sights that I’ve used; particularly their HK style front sight. Unlike the fundamentally flawed HK style front sights manufactured by Troy Industries, Precision...

www.snipershide.com

Is the match supposed to be like a 100 yard service rifle match?

 

[Molon]

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/service-rifle-micrometer-sights.7179268/#post-10991103

....

 

[Budrichard]

“Is the match supposed to be like a 100 yard service rifle match?”

Yes but these guys make up there own rules about everything as they go along in this Club.
The guy running this match has been hemming and hawing about sights for a month now and I have no idea of the target he will use. At first, it was only Military AR 5.56 with D Handles, now he has changed to any iron sight.
I have got the person running the 22lr matches using standard targets from NRA or NRL.
Before they were using some six bull colored target at 50yds. Hard to see with iron sights at 50yds.
At 100 yds, he used standard NRA Small Bore Target.
Took second place with my 52D with Redfield International front and rear.
-Richard

 

[Trigger Monkey]

The C4's are probably the way to go from the sounds of it.

 

[Budrichard]

I have ordered the Picatinny base from Champion Choice.
I will use my Redfield Palma Rear and try to find a front sight with aperture that gives me a 100 yd zero.
I am also ordering the C4 set from UltraDyne and the assorted front and rear apertures.
WE shall see what works.
More to come!
-Richard

 

[AZgeek]

I use this front sight product for open sight fun. The suspended dot really shines out past 300 yards in terms of seeing your entire target.

Clear Image Solutions - Clear Image Solutions

clearimage-solutions.com

 

[B y r o n]

Here is another Redfield mount for picatinny rail.

Here are some front sight mount options.

 

[simonp]

I have ordered the Picatinny base from Champion Choice.
I will use my Redfield Palma Rear and try to find a front sight with aperture that gives me a 100 yd zero.
I am also ordering the C4 set from UltraDyne and the assorted front and rear apertures.
WE shall see what works.
More to come!
-Richard

Interested in hearing your thoughts on the UltraDyne sights

 

[B y r o n]

CLE National Match A2 1/4 MOA adjustment.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Sounds like your club needs to define their match before they try to have it. From the way it sounds they are trying to run an NRA High Power Rifle Match. There are rules for both Service and Match Rfiles and it is easy to run a match as iron sight only using them.

As for your sight question, decide if you want to use Service Rifle Sights or Match Rifle Sights. My recommendation is Service Rifle (NM style) with 1/4 MOA windage and elevation.

 

[gunsnjeeps]

PS: what gas block do you have? That will help decide which front sight. The Sights above look ok but would be a Match Rifle sight.

 

[jbailey]

Love concept of this match! Get yourself a M1917 Enfiled and Go Sgt York on their targets!!!

Remember, we (the US) fought and won at least 4 major wars with only irons at moving targets well past 100yds...

 

[erik72]

Does anyone have any experience with these sights?
Does anyone have any suggestions for any other micrometer rear with aperture front that might work on a pic rail?
Thank you for any suggestions!
-Richard

I purchased the front Ultradyne sight with muzzle brake. I can't recall the size of the aperture on the front post but it wasn't large enough. I found that it pretty much blocked out the target. I modified a standard A2 front post to work in the ultradyne sight. I prefer that much better. The reason I went with the ultradyne was because I liked pushing the sight out all the way to the end of the barrel. Max sight radius.

On another note, I did source some Lipski sight bases and mounted the Lyman target sights on a 20" CMMG Rimfire AR. I haven't done this on a CF AR but I love the sight picture this setup makes. I did purchase the Medesha Sight bases (front and rear). They'll work with this kind of set up too. Here's the front base with an A2 carry handle on another AR22.

 

[erik72]

I use this front sight product for open sight fun. The suspended dot really shines out past 300 yards in terms of seeing your entire target.

Clear Image Solutions - Clear Image Solutions

clearimage-solutions.com

That looks pretty cool! For a reasonable price too. I may have to check that out. From what I'm seeing, there's no rear sight. Is that right? Does it matter if it's rail mounted our gas block mounted? If there's no rear sight, I guess it wouldn't matter.

 

[AZgeek]

That looks pretty cool! For a reasonable price too. I may have to check that out. From what I'm seeing, there's no rear sight. Is that right? Does it matter if it's rail mounted our gas block mounted? If there's no rear sight, I guess it wouldn't matter.

Correct. Front sight only. No problem mounting directly on a gas block. Again this sight is for fun. I like the Troy battle sight for real SHTF use.

 

[erik72]

Optics - Medesha Barrel band front sight base: .750”, .880” and .920”

Had this for a few years and it worked out perfectly. Front sight base is adjustable for height. Fits 0.920” barrel but Comes with 2 reduced inserts .750”and .880” but there is a bunch of room to move in both directions. The bad: the built in level lost its fluid… :( $80 shipped Electronic...

www.snipershide.com

Here's a Medesha Barrel Band sight base for sale here...the dovetail will accept the WIlliams, Lyman, or any other of the globe sights commonly used. Check creedmoorsports.com

 

[smoothy8500]

My local Club is going to have a Military 100 yd AR series of matches but with iron sights.

So what did you end up going with for the match?

 

[Budrichard]

Went with Service Rifle type sights.
I purchased an ’F’ Type front with 0.074 square Post and modified 1/4MOA carry handle rear with fixed long hood from Compass Lake.
Initially mounted the front on the rail but now moved to the gas block for elevation.
100 yd group with M193 shown.
My son shot this group with his second, third and fourth shots with these sights, so no ‘best’ group.
Only problem is that the rear elevation adjustment is CW or different from most US sold CCW scope adjustment. But have a NOS made by Hillenger of White Oak coming with CCW rear elevation.
White Oak does not sell these anymore and was sourced from helpful National Match shooter.
-Richard

 

[gunsnjeeps]

Went with Service Rifle type sights.
I purchased an ’F’ Type front with 0.074 square Post and modified 1/4MOA carry handle rear with fixed long hood from Compass Lake.
Initially mounted the front on the rail but now moved to the gas block for elevation.
100 yd group with M193 shown.
My son shot this group with his second, third and fourth shots with these sights, so no ‘best’ group.
Only problem is that the rear elevation adjustment is CW or different from most US sold CCW scope adjustment. But have a NOS made by Hillenger of White Oak coming with CCW rear elevation.
White Oak does not sell these anymore and was sourced from helpful National Match shooter.
-Richard

Iron sights and scope reticles moving opposite of each other ruined many scores early after scopes went into Service Rifle. Have fun, I think you'll enjoy that set up.