Ran my PVA barreled nuke in a match yesterday. Ran like a fuckin raped ape with 0 failures. All the ROs kept commenting on how well it ejected my brass. It was chucking them 10ft away. Absolutely love this rifle.
ARC Nucleus vs. Bighorn Origin
- Thread starter Afkirby
- Start date
Just curious, what do you find ugly about the Nucleus? The bolt knob is replacable, other than that it looks like any other REM700
hello all I don't jump on here often but I have something to say about American Rifle Company. their product is obviously pretty amazing but one serious problem with their owner bothered me to no end. before purchasing the mausingfield I contacted Ted and asked him about a thread on the hide that mentioned an action with a shorter bolt throw. he told me it was hogwash and asked where I heard it from and I said the hide. he assured me that that was not the case and it would not happen. well I can't remember the exact time but I do still have the email, but it was like a week later he announced the nucleus. made me pretty upset that I was lied to although the mausingfield I received was fantastic. but I'm a man wear honor still matters and so does integrity. So no matter what amazing product they may come up with my hard-earned money will go elsewhere.
You honestly think that he wanted to release information about a new action to a random stranger a week before the release of the Nucleus?
You have one post here and it's to bitch about a supplier.
Maybe I misread your description, but weren’t you talking about the mausingfield vs another action with a shorter throw? Could you not have just bought a nucleus?
Think he's saying he ordered a Mausingfield, and right before it shipped he asked Ted (before the Nucleus was released) about a rumor he saw on the hide of a shorter throw action from ARC, and Ted said there was nothing to it. A week later the Nucleus was released.
So the guy is ruffled because Ted lied by keeping some of his business secrets a secret.
I say oh well. It happens. I have friends/contacts throughout the industry and have bought stuff right before new versions or new gear comes out, too. It happens. If you were excited/happy enough to spend the money on what you got, though, then it's good enough. Things aren't always so simple that people can always tell you the truth.
So the guy is ruffled because Ted lied by keeping some of his business secrets a secret.
I say oh well. It happens. I have friends/contacts throughout the industry and have bought stuff right before new versions or new gear comes out, too. It happens. If you were excited/happy enough to spend the money on what you got, though, then it's good enough. Things aren't always so simple that people can always tell you the truth.
...not to mention that there are some advantages that the Mausingfield has over the Nucleus; the ability to run a .589 bolt head (and therefore the 338 LM and 338 Norma-based cases), the material from which it is made, the integrated recoil lug, DLC vs. nitrided finish, etc...
Personally, I had a Nucleus on order when I came across an LRI group buy on a Mausingfield barreled action... so I pulled the trigger on the Mausingfield, too. A few months later I received my Nucleus, which, at this point, is still sitting in a cardboard box awaiting funds for the build. I understand that I was very fortunate to be in a position to be able to do both (and that not everyone has that capability), but I said all that to say that I have no regrets running a built Mausingfield instead of the Nucleus. I am certain that I'll be thrilled with the Nucleus as well, once I get it built.
Personally, I had a Nucleus on order when I came across an LRI group buy on a Mausingfield barreled action... so I pulled the trigger on the Mausingfield, too. A few months later I received my Nucleus, which, at this point, is still sitting in a cardboard box awaiting funds for the build. I understand that I was very fortunate to be in a position to be able to do both (and that not everyone has that capability), but I said all that to say that I have no regrets running a built Mausingfield instead of the Nucleus. I am certain that I'll be thrilled with the Nucleus as well, once I get it built.
I just ordered the Origin (lefty) the other day. They indicated an April ship date, but I'm hoping it will be sooner than that.
I ordered a right hand on 1/29/19 and yesterday 2/6/19 I got an email saying it’s ready to ship and call in to put down the rest. They seem to know that promising late is better than promising early. Left hand throws a wrench in that logic but they seem on the ball.
That’s great. Wonder if they’re all caught up, or you just had impeccable timing on a recently finished run.
I ordered on 1/29/19 as well wonder if you got in on a batch or if I’ll be getting a call soon as well. I too was given an April ship date
Cool. I was a few days behind you and ordered on 2/3. I'm in no hurry, so it's all good. I'm sure it will be worth the wait. Besides, I haven't decided what caliber I'm gonna use yet...ugh.
Post pics!!!
its been a long time since you've guys all posted here.
Tl3 very know action reasonable Features long term how did you like it ?
Nucleus 2.0 is out now... looking to make a decision on witch one id truly see myself with long term.
what are your liked & all between about both actions ?
please give me your feed back !!!
Thank you
Tl3 very know action reasonable Features long term how did you like it ?
Nucleus 2.0 is out now... looking to make a decision on witch one id truly see myself with long term.
what are your liked & all between about both actions ?
please give me your feed back !!!
Thank you
Go tl3, easy to run 90 degree bolt. My gf can't run the nucleus because the bolt lift is too heavy. I run it fine but just something to consider if you have new shooters on the gun. Go to a match and run both if you can.
Run them and see what you like. Both are excellent actions.
My Nucleus with the lighter spring has been just fine and bolt lift on both mine are fine. One has a 16 and the other a 19.
My Nucleus with the lighter spring has been just fine and bolt lift on both mine are fine. One has a 16 and the other a 19.
Have you placed top 10 at any matches? Usually people that i hear like the nucleus are always newish shooters.
I finished top 10 in the last NRL match I participated in. Have placed in the top 3 and won at several local club matches. I just bought a Nucleus 2.0 to replace my 1st Gen Mausingfield for competitions. Mausingfield is going to be a hunting rifle. I don't believe I'll see any stark improvements in performance, I just like the way the Nucleus runs and like how all of Ted's actions are made. I wanted to build a hunting rifle and think the Nucleus is better suited to competitions and the MF better suited for hunting. MF has 14,000+ rounds on it now and I still love it, just giving something else a try.
ETA: In the grand scheme of things, when you get to the point of buying $900-1500 actions a guy is really splitting hairs and IMO it largely comes down to ergonomics and comfort more than anything. What action you run is pretty low on the pole for determining how you place.
Well, that’s a new type of snobbery I’d not seen before.
You are the first "experienced" shooter I've heard enjoy their nucleus. I legitimately hate mine and its given me constant issues. Light primer strikes until I switched it out and the bolt lift weight definitely rose. I can bang the barrel with the barloc system and have a shift in poi. Its so true, its now stated in their barloc product description. Tons of trigger issues with bixnandy but it works fine now with triggertexh.
I work as an engineer and come from a machining and rifle building background so little quirks don't get me riled. I can see how some folks could get turned off, especially hopping on the initial product releases that have issues. That said, the long action Nucleus that I have came with the 16lb spring and had about 5-10% light strikes. A 19lb spring replacement fixed everything and the bolt lift is still very acceptable. I also tried a 25lb spring and that was no good (ignition, yes, bolt lift no).
The Barloc is a separate item. Ted has said from the beginning he wasn't a fan of the idea, and it was a bandaid solution to keep people from drilling the receiver face to run the WTO Switchlug (also less than ideal for several reasons). Anyway, a lot of pre-fit shouldered barrels are out there with the tennon cut a little longer than a guy wants (or shallower head space-- almost the same thing, to an extent), and little smaller pitch diameter, too. Neither helps. You want the barrel shoulder to at least contact the barloc (better if you have to torque it on just a smidge) to get to the correct head space. If you head space the barrel and there is still air gap between the loose barloc and the barrel before tightening the clamp screw, you will get POI shift. Likewise with the Savage nut setup, torque the nut until the wrench fits in the barloc before tightening the clamp screw. I never had any problems that way, except with a PVA prefit. I reamed that PVA barrel .007" deeper and all was right in the world; no more POI shifts with impacts. I spin up my own barrels for the most part, though, so I have the benefit of tuning stuff how I want it. Anymore I have accumulated enough stocks, scopes, actions, etc... to just have single-caliber rifles and the quick-change idea isn't so necessary nor intriguing. I just spin up shouldered barrels (no barloc).
But back to the original point, yes. I think the Nucleus combines a lot of good features in an action that runs really well and really fast. Not in a bad price bracket, either, for the features. I'm getting it expecting to have to modify it a little bit because I'm going to run 6mm ARC (.445" case head dia.). I had to machine and fit the bolt head/extractor on the Mausingfield as well. The MF started as a .223 bolt head, luckily I may get away with just running the Valkyrie Nuke head. We'll see... If I gotta swap a spring and a cocking piece along the way, oh well.
The Barloc is a separate item. Ted has said from the beginning he wasn't a fan of the idea, and it was a bandaid solution to keep people from drilling the receiver face to run the WTO Switchlug (also less than ideal for several reasons). Anyway, a lot of pre-fit shouldered barrels are out there with the tennon cut a little longer than a guy wants (or shallower head space-- almost the same thing, to an extent), and little smaller pitch diameter, too. Neither helps. You want the barrel shoulder to at least contact the barloc (better if you have to torque it on just a smidge) to get to the correct head space. If you head space the barrel and there is still air gap between the loose barloc and the barrel before tightening the clamp screw, you will get POI shift. Likewise with the Savage nut setup, torque the nut until the wrench fits in the barloc before tightening the clamp screw. I never had any problems that way, except with a PVA prefit. I reamed that PVA barrel .007" deeper and all was right in the world; no more POI shifts with impacts. I spin up my own barrels for the most part, though, so I have the benefit of tuning stuff how I want it. Anymore I have accumulated enough stocks, scopes, actions, etc... to just have single-caliber rifles and the quick-change idea isn't so necessary nor intriguing. I just spin up shouldered barrels (no barloc).
But back to the original point, yes. I think the Nucleus combines a lot of good features in an action that runs really well and really fast. Not in a bad price bracket, either, for the features. I'm getting it expecting to have to modify it a little bit because I'm going to run 6mm ARC (.445" case head dia.). I had to machine and fit the bolt head/extractor on the Mausingfield as well. The MF started as a .223 bolt head, luckily I may get away with just running the Valkyrie Nuke head. We'll see... If I gotta swap a spring and a cocking piece along the way, oh well.
Matching be poor somewhere else while being original. You'll catch on. I can also say, found the 2 that haven't placed.
Matching be poor somewhere else while being original. You'll catch on. I can also say, found the 2 that haven't placed.
My brother never did either, and he was a combat vet 8542. Who gives a fuck about a game? Goddamn, this isn’t high school football, get a life.
Youll have to post your match standings to be able to comment on the engineering aspects of the Nucleus in this thread, sorry.
The butt hurt is strong. Im sorry you never placed high in the match. Practice more.
You know this is snipers hide, not benchrest or accurate shooter? I look forward to shooting in a match, but it doesn’t determine my dick size or social standing.
Matching be poor somewhere else while being original. You'll catch on. I can also say, found the 2 that haven't placed.
Doesn’t bother me. At least I’m not poor, though.
Hahahaha, thanks for bringing up the humiliation and pain of being a loser. It is the pain and embarrassment from my youth when I said that I liked my converse basketball shoes and that other kid with new Air Jordans asked me if I had won any championships.
I finish middle of the pack at my local matches, but it has nothing to do with the action. I sucked with my Savage too. But, the Nucleus was absolutely a step up.
That I suck doesn't change the fact that my Nucleus actions do everything I need, I don't have problems with them, and I like the features.
I have rifles to hunt, not be a top ten finisher at PRS matches. I am 100% confident in it for any condition I see in the field.
They are absolutely different than most out there and it is a love hate relationship. Like everything, run them and see. More people probably like the "traditional" action and won't like the feel.
ARC Nucleus and TL3 both handle the 6 ARC pretty well with the right bolt face. Get some MDT BR or ARC AICS mags and rock & roll. I've been shooting 6 ARC in a nuke since it was released and have 4 barrels spun up in reserve. Put 4000 rounds on one before I got scared and pulled it. Still shot my Varget hand loads fine, but was opening up with factory 108's.
Just to clarify, the Origin is now stainless as well. I would not say the Origin is basically a TL3 with "cheaper parts"; the cost reduction is basically from having fewer options (like scope rail cant and tang design) and using round stock for the action body which only results in not having an integral lug; the reduced cost does NOT rely on quality of parts.
so, this nucleus is a real thing?
forgive a noobie, here, but. . . .
I was watching a few videos (marketing) which made it look fricking sexy, and awesome, and made me wanna invest in the new kid on the block
then I see a video on YouTube with its CREATOR, owner, and designer : Ted Karagis, saying :
"And let’s say you get, you know, 90° of rotation, . . . I would’ve had to cut really deep into the chassis, or stock, to make that happen. But 75° is a pretty good number right? The mousingfield, it went from not 90 to a better 80, I’ll tell you why, it’s well (you know why) they think it’s better because the clearance.
The nucleus, which is a three bolt head an extractor, is THIS action, [in his hand] as is the Archimedes - used to be 72°, and we went up to 83°, no we went to 80° with, . . . no, I’m going to forget, but I think the nucleus is now went up from 72° to 80°, and the mousingfield went from 90° to 83° (I think). It’s on the website. The point is, you’ll hear a lot of people talk about a 60° Bolt throws, . . . "
somewhere else in that vicinity he even said "72ish degrees".
WTF???
roughly 11:30 till 12"40 on this video:
is this guy real? really the designer?
maybe he is just the absent minded professor, and has also invented "Flubber"
this video interview certainly shook my confidence in his creation(s)
which looked pretty slick on the marketing videos
forgive a noobie, here, but. . . .
I was watching a few videos (marketing) which made it look fricking sexy, and awesome, and made me wanna invest in the new kid on the block
then I see a video on YouTube with its CREATOR, owner, and designer : Ted Karagis, saying :
"And let’s say you get, you know, 90° of rotation, . . . I would’ve had to cut really deep into the chassis, or stock, to make that happen. But 75° is a pretty good number right? The mousingfield, it went from not 90 to a better 80, I’ll tell you why, it’s well (you know why) they think it’s better because the clearance.
The nucleus, which is a three bolt head an extractor, is THIS action, [in his hand] as is the Archimedes - used to be 72°, and we went up to 83°, no we went to 80° with, . . . no, I’m going to forget, but I think the nucleus is now went up from 72° to 80°, and the mousingfield went from 90° to 83° (I think). It’s on the website. The point is, you’ll hear a lot of people talk about a 60° Bolt throws, . . . "
somewhere else in that vicinity he even said "72ish degrees".
WTF???
roughly 11:30 till 12"40 on this video:
is this guy real? really the designer?
maybe he is just the absent minded professor, and has also invented "Flubber"
this video interview certainly shook my confidence in his creation(s)
which looked pretty slick on the marketing videos
Ted also does... zero... video editing.
Engineers don't always make good salesmen.
Engineers don't always make good salesmen.
I’ve not
So, does this get folks vote of confidence?
When he can’t remember his bolt throw degrees, and says “just look at the website” ? ?
Kinda funny
Seems kinda sad
So, does this get folks vote of confidence?
When he can’t remember his bolt throw degrees, and says “just look at the website” ? ?
Kinda funny
Seems kinda sad
This is where I was going. My gunsmithing mentor was EXACTLY like Ted. It cracks me up.
Me: “Ok, why did you do it this way?” Also me: “Give me the 5 minute version, not the 2 hour version”
No, he’s just scatterbrained. Small but important distinction.
Like Ledzep said, people like ted usually dont get in front of cameras. Companies hire people to distill the message for the masses. Ted presses record, and gives you his savant like long take, with no editing. I appreciate it personally. Regarding the bolt throw, he’s probably prototyped every degree bolt throw between 60 and 90. If you like off an off the beaten path approach to a 700 footprint receiver, Arc is a good choice.
To be fair, the website really is the best place to go for the summarized details compared to tryin to list them all off the cuff. The Nucleus has had several iterations since inception and the original was 72 degrees. Gen 2 is 80 degrees. Part of the reason for the changes is end user feedback regarding heavy bolt lift with higher weight springs or light primer strikes with lighter weight springs.
Mausingfield has had several iterations/revisions as well. (90 degree to 83 degree rotation)
Archimedes probably has had the least changes, only one that comes to my mind is the change in which cocking piece it comes with due to end user feedback regarding bolt bump on close. (75 degree bolt rotation)
Where most of us got the vote of confidence is right here on this forum (but also where some people lost confidence). Many (maybe even majority) of ARC action owners followed the public developmental changes of each action since announcement to release.
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I have both. If you like a light bolt lift, go TL3 and send it off to Zermatt to time the trigger. The TL3 binds if you run it just right. Most have no issues with it. They both have light strike issues. A heavier spring in both will basically fix it. It makes the lift pretty heavy in the nucleus though. It had no effect in the TL3 on bolt lift. The firing pin fall on a TL3 is pretty short which has been sited as an issue by some smiths. Most prs shooters won't notice. A heavier spring stopped my light strikes and a good barrel with good components is always under 3/8 moa. Good enough for prs.
How do you tell which cocking piece you have on the Archimedes? Can the old one be swapped out for the new with no other work/parts?
Thanks for the info. Sorry, I’m a little slow this morning; the new one is engraved and the old one isn’t? Or they’re both engraved with like a G1 or G2 or something?
What old one are you talking about? What new one are you talking about?
They're engraved with their respective size, and can be swapped out without any further work.
https://www.americanrifle.com/shop/cocking-piece-m3-160?category=21#attr=82,259
The pieces have numbers on them either marked on the rear or the top of the piece. I think the Archimedes originally came with a 055 piece; the new ones come with a 035 piece.
You can replace them without replacing any other part. You choose the one that best works well with your trigger by measuring the depth of the cocking piece position within the bolt shroud with the bolt handle in the closed position and the upward open position. If the firing pin drops forward onto the trigger sear when you close the bolt handle (decock on close/negative cock on close), you go with a longer cocking piece. If the cocking piece moves backwards as you close the handle you choose a shorter piece (cock on close/bump on close). The pieces come in 0.010" increments (035, 045, 055, 065). You can also choose a longer piece and carefully hand fit the length of the piece. Ideal is 0 movement of the piece in bolt open or closed positions.
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