Rifle Scopes Are Tier 1 scopes even worth it ?

[HoneyBakedBadger]

Hello all this is my first post aside from using the Exchange. I have always been just a “reader only” of forums but I’ve been reading a lot about precision optics these days and it seems that technology has advanced so rapidly and precision of engineering has become way more available that it was 5 years ago.

My question is, Are these newest, baddest, most expensive, tier 1 optics really worth all the hype?

I see companies like Nightforce and Leupold producing scopes with an MSRP over $4,000!

I see on a lot of forums people complain about optical clarity of optics such as the XTR2 and I understand the importance but we’re not bird watchers. We don’t need to count the hairs, we’re simply putting lead on target and for a lot of us that’s a big dinner sized steel plate.

I suppose maybe I don’t understand because I run a limited budget and I’m not trying to justify buying such an optical masterpiece, but for range guys who run their guns out to no more than 1,300 yards on steel does all this matter? Is the NF BEAST really going to make the difference ? Or can I simply strap on a good old Gen 2 Viper and not have any major disadvantages?

Thanks Guys !

 

[theLBC]

i'd guess it depends on if you are rich or one of the poors.

imho, 2nd tier scopes in the $2k range is more than good enough for somebody like me, and are significantly better than tier 3 scopes.
functionally, i would probably not be the type of shooter that would gain anything from a $4k scope, but if i was rich, why not?

 

[Supersubes]

Buy the nicest you can afford. It’s been proven over and over you don’t need the top tier scopes. They’re certainly nice to have though. I wouldn’t put anything Leupold in the top tier personally, and I’d leave the Beast out as well. The Beast isn’t a bad device, but there’s a reason people pick the cheaper ATACR f1’s over them.

 

[HoneyBakedBadger]

I just ask this because I’m In the market now for an optic for a tactical bolt gun that I want to shoot steel with all within 1,200 yds. I’m eye balling the Steiner p4xi at cameralandny as I can pick that one up now, or I can wait and save up more for another such as the ATACR. I’m newer to all this an I’m not sure if my eye will even appreciate a higher quality optic yet. I wish I could go and look through some of these optics but out here in San Diego, all the gunshops have lines out doors Due to COVID, the staff don’t really seem too knowledgeable, and lastly the scope inventory is down to Slim pickings.

 

[HoneyBakedBadger]

By the way thank you for your replies !

 

[theLBC]

I just ask this because I’m In the market now for an optic for a tactical bolt gun that I want to shoot steel with all within 1,200 yds. I’m eye balling the Steiner p4xi at cameralandny as I can pick that one up now, or I can wait and save up more for another such as the ATACR. I’m newer to all this an I’m not sure if my eye will even appreciate a higher quality optic yet. I wish I could go and look through some of these optics but out here in San Diego, all the gunshops have lines out doors Due to COVID, the staff don’t really seem too knowledgeable, and lastly the scope inventory is down to Slim pickings.

same problem here. no high end optics stores to compare them.
they should have a "look through my scope" day at pala or something.

 

[Supersubes]

I just ask this because I’m In the market now for an optic for a tactical bolt gun that I want to shoot steel with all within 1,200 yds. I’m eye balling the Steiner p4xi at cameralandny as I can pick that one up now, or I can wait and save up more for another such as the ATACR. I’m newer to all this an I’m not sure if my eye will even appreciate a higher quality optic yet. I wish I could go and look through some of these optics but out here in San Diego, all the gunshops have lines out doors Due to COVID, the staff don’t really seem too knowledgeable, and lastly the scope inventory is down to Slim pickings.

Don’t pick based on glass. Pick based on features and reticle. Also, no need to tie the scope to a yardage. If you say you’ll be shooting to only 800 yards or 2000 yards, that changes nothing in the class of scopes we’re talking about.

 

[Supersubes]

same problem here. no high end optics stores to compare them.
they should have a "look through my scope" day at pala or something.

I used to shoot at Pala, it’s always look through my scope day there. Dudes love showing off their expensive glass.

 

[army_eod]

Call Doug at Cameraland and consult with him. Tell him your requirements. Remember, requirements are quantified but do not call out a Brand, or Manufacturer. Tell him your budget. That is a requirement.

 

[Mute]

As with most things that are at the top end of the price tier, there will be diminishing returns. That extra bit you get may be helpful, but usually not a necessity. However, thinking that it's necessary is missing the point. I have scopes at every price range and they all serve the purposes I bought them for.

 

[WildBill3/75]

The are they better? Are they worth the price? This is very subjective.

I've been away from this forum for a long time. Lots of internet hype and people that have more money than brains floating around. I also see a bunch of bullshit about chromatic aberration you never heard bitching about CA 10 years ago.

Scopes are very subjective. I suggest to get behind some glass and see what you like if that's an option.

If not, do a search for best scopes in your price range or search YouTube for reviews if you can't play with them in person to get a better idea. Be weary of paid advertising or obvious shills.

Personally I like Bushnell LRTS and Steiner M5 and M7's. I'd even be happy behind an older mildot Leopold Mk4 lr/t but I sure am glad there are a bunch of better options these days.

I would stay away from the viper PST gen II. I had one and it was Philippines made garbage.

Japanese made and German/ Austrian made are generally great choices.

 

[HoneyBakedBadger]

I’ll check in with Doug, also I’ve been wanting to go out to Pala and see how that range works! I’ve been out there to do some pistol matches but never the big range. I very much look forward to getting out to the range with this rifle and learning Precision shooting.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I’ll check in with Doug, also I’ve been wanting to go out to Pala and see how that range works! I’ve been out there to do some pistol matches but never the big range. I very much look forward to getting out to the range with this rifle and learning Precision shooting.

There will be a local PRS style match on Sunday the 28th. Come by and look through a bunch of optics and it’ll give you a better idea.
if you want to see a good comparison of tier 2 vs tier 1 glass I can bring my Revic and you can compare to my zcomp.

 

[AznTactical]

I see on a lot of forums people complain about optical clarity of optics such as the XTR2 and I understand the importance but we’re not bird watchers. We don’t need to count the hairs, we’re simply putting lead on target and for a lot of us that’s a big dinner sized steel plate.

Thanks Guys !

Well, Mr. Bill Poor set a new world record shot of 3 miles in 2018 or 2019 using a Burris XTR2. Buy what you can afford. I own a Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 and a Vortex AMG 6-24x50 and I ABSOLUTELY love them. My wallet on the other hand disagrees.

 

[HoneyBakedBadger]

There will be a local PRS style match on Sunday the 28th. Come by and look through a bunch of optics and it’ll give you a better idea.
if you want to see a good comparison of tier 2 vs tier 1 glass I can bring my Revic and you can compare to my zcomp.

I’ll come out! I wasn’t sure it was still on due to the virus and all.

 

[Tac Beard]

Well, Mr. Bill Poor set a new world record shot of 3 miles in 2018 or 2019 using a Burris XTR2. Buy what you can afford. I own a Vortex Razor Gen II 4.5-27x56 and a Vortex AMG 6-24x50 and I ABSOLUTELY love them. My wallet on the other hand disagrees.

Wait is that his name???

 

[littlepod]

I've owned a variety of scopes from $300-1800. I haven't crossed into the 2K-4K yet as the current range I'm in has yet my needs. Starting at the $300-$800 range -

I shoot mainly rimfire out to 400 yards, wanting to spot 22LR holes at 200 yards in paper, in the shade, in mirage, etc.

Issues I found were -
Low Magnification, or parallax won't dial down low enough.
Inconsistent tracking, random failures (Vortex Diamondback - multiple)
Clarity at high magnification (Athlon Ares BTR - fails to make out 22LR holes at 200y unless very good conditions)
Clarity in general, meh glass (Burris XTR II)

Once I crossed the $1000 range I found things to be usable with my requirements (22LR holes @ 200 yards)
Athlon Ares ETR
Cronus
Tract
AMG

So if all you're doing is sitting idle in Prone, shooting stuff, you get the clarity that you need.

So what keeps getting better?

Turrets
Eye Box
FOV
Elevation
Parallax

And each of those things will have effects when doing movement shooting (PRS/NRL), and you can choose at which point you feel something is lacking and you want better. Some people think FOV is important, some people feel Eye Box is most important. Or wide range parallax. If you're constantly shooting 400y rimfire, you want to be able to dial 20mils, so you have certain elevation requirements.

Turrets, depends on if you're shooting constantly with gloves, or need really crisp clicks. Maybe locking turrets.

And then reticle... if you're sitting in prone, dialing turrets, aiming the center at your 1200y steel, I don't think any reticle matters. But on the clock, PRS/NRL reticle really matters. Wind, Movers, Holdovers...

I've landed on the new Tract's and previously on the ETR's. ETR I found getting behind in different positions sometimes finicky. Parallax very finicky. I wanted an improvement. I wanted the XTR III, but where I shoot, gray shot out steel on gray backgrounds, overcast, my reticle gets washed out and I need illumination in matches sometimes.

Gotten behind AMG, NF 7-35, S&B PM II, ZCO 5-27 and haven't felt the need yet for for those scopes. Maybe when I get better and the 2-3% improvement on any of the above dimensions starts landing me more points on the clock.

 

[Guthwine]

As of yet I bought scopes in the 2-3k section and I always think of it as something that can be a family heirloom, like Swaro binos for example. The expensive stuff also is durable and keeps it's resale value. (which is where you can find good deals)
Of course the cheaper stuff works fine as well. As with everything else, it's the man and rarely the machine that does the work, bit it is good to have nice things that ooze quality and give you confidence that you can rely on them.

 

[1moaoff]

1500 to 2000 hers you everything you need.
after that its alot of want that you pay dearly for

 

[stilesg57]

Never been behind a T1 scope. Don’t need to: a G2 Razor is absolutely not a limiting factor in my shooting and I can’t justify the cash outlay for more capability there when I’m nowhere close to exhausting the abilities of the Razor. Better is better and if the money is no object to you buy as much as you want. If that’s not the case, you’ll be more than fine with T2 and even lower glass.

Frankly, I think you have to be a REALLY good shooter before a modern $1k / T3 optic like an Athlon Ares, Bushnell LRHS, or a Meopro Optika6 is holding you back. Most people who own T1 and even T2 glass are spending more than they need to...because they can and want to.

 

[ForgeValley]

For me, the juice ain't worth the squeeze for a really 'tier 1' like TT or ZCO. I'm happy with my AMG, M7xi, and even the Burris XTRIII. All solidly somewhere in the tier 2 range. I never missed a shot because I didn't have a TT. Now would I like to own one, sure. I just don't want it 2k or more enough.

 

[hlee]

In before @TheGerman sees this thread...

Are they worth it? Depends on what you need, but enough guys are buying them for me to say yes.

 

[Dogtown]

There's rarely anything wrong with buying a top tier scope used.

 

[stilesg57]

...I never missed a shot because I didn't have a TT...

Bingo. And very, VERY few people have ever missed a shot with T2 glass that they would’ve made with T1 glass. Let alone several.

Outside of a pretty elite group, T1 glass is a fun, nice-to-have thing that’s a want, not a need. If I was either a member of that group or didn’t bat an eye at a purely discretionary $5k purchase, I’d have one. But neither of those describes me unfortunately, ha.

 

[TheGerman]

Do I buy the condom I know will work, or buy the budget condom and hope I dont end up with a fuck trophy?

 

[TheGerman]

Hahah - the circle of condom analogies closes!

Is it too late to admit I shoot iron sights only when the ladies are concerned?

its not an SBR is it?

 

[Hairy Biker]

As a shooter you are spoiled for choice in 2020. The advances in tech since the late 90s and even into the early 2010s has simply been astounding for scopes and we are richer for it.

But as always it comes down to budget and defining what you want to do in your chosen discipline.

Key things, such as repeatability of settings, optical quality, weight and size are constants that can and should inform your decision.

As a practical example of what Tear 1 can achieve over Tier 2. The reason I went to March for my scopes is based on a summer's afternoon shooting a long range competition in very heavy mirage. I'm talking a disco-dancing target. I had a March to test and, which it was a struggle, I could see the mirage changes coming in, adapt the aim off, hit the target in the centre. I then spoke to my competitors who were complaining loudly about not able able to see the target and looked through their NF scopes to confirm that at 30 to 40 power the target was just a blob. I was running at 50x easily and was an easy winner.

The decision to purchase was simple after that. Ate 2 minute noodles for a fews afterwards but!

 

[hlee]

Do I buy the condom I know will work, or buy the budget condom and hope I dont end up with a fuck trophy?

Are you new to fucking?
Concerned that you’ll try it but not stick with it?
Want to “compete,” but not looking for a “podium spot?”
Currently enrolled in college/grad school?
Looking for a condom for your “trainer?”

All valid reasons to consider a more budget friendly option.

 

[cleric]

I think the sweet spot is in the 1500-2500 price point. Atacr, mk 5, razor gen 2/3, etc.


the higher end are better but the marginal benefit is not worth it to me. I can get 2 of those for one zco or tangent theta and I have never missed a shot due to the optical quality of my mark 5

 

[SD Carpenter]

Stop by our local match at Pala on the 28th,. I'm sure you'll find every scope your thinking of looking through there

 

[HoneyBakedBadger]

Yeah I’ll definitely be there. I’ve always been interested in how these matches work ! Thanks for the invite !

 

[WtxMSCL8188]

I own a TT/AMG/NF beast/Atacr/525i and can easily achieve the same performance with my buddy’s Gen 2 razor. Personal preference and budget. Cap my budget at $1500. I’ll have a Razot bought from the PX in a couple of minutes...

 

[BigJimFish]

I REALLY liked the BnA..EXCEPT...for the over travel...I hated it but ran them for several years.

My question is, Are these newest, baddest, most expensive, tier 1 optics really worth all the hype?

I see companies like Nightforce and Leupold producing scopes with an MSRP over $4,000!

I see on a lot of forums people complain about optical clarity of optics such as the XTR2 and I understand the importance but we’re not bird watchers. We don’t need to count the hairs, we’re simply putting lead on target and for a lot of us that’s a big dinner sized steel plate.

I suppose maybe I don’t understand because I run a limited budget and I’m not trying to justify buying such an optical masterpiece, but for range guys who run their guns out to no more than 1,300 yards on steel does all this matter? Is the NF BEAST really going to make the difference ? Or can I simply strap on a good old Gen 2 Viper and not have any major disadvantages?

Thanks Guys !

First off, it is not really about accuracy. Benchrest guys mostly use pretty inexpensive stuff. They really just want high magnification, light, and that holds zero. They are not asking much from a scope and don't need much. A better scope will not make you more accurate or even more precise.

Tier 1 scopes tend to be better in the following ways:
1) Better glass primarily means more field of view, more depth of field, less distortion, and higher resolution:
What this means to us is that you can see the trace of your shot though the air better which can be vital in making out where a miss went especially if there is not berm directly behind the steel. You can also see splash better in conditions where this can be tricky due to foliage or dust that is blowing around the target area. You can see your hit on the actual steel better as well. I have been amazed at hits I have sometimes seen at 1k yds though an S&B that I never would have thought I would see. Lastly, you can sometimes better deal with mirage with a tier one optic both with respect to getting a wind read from it and with respect to understanding where the target actually is as mirage can obscure this or mislead you.

2) Better features mean you are less likely to get lost in the revolutions and totally blow a shot:
A simple turret like a sub $1k scope has moves up and down with the adjustment and typically doesn't have a turn indicator. It is easier to end up on the wrong rev with this than with the turn indicator 15 mil turret you often have on a tier 1.

3) They can be more durable mechanically:
Tier 1 stuff does not just have brass adjustment internals running on a bushing. It can have steel running on bearings. This can wear much better.

4) They can be more durable optically:
The coatings on tier 1 stuff last much longer when exposed to the sun and wet that scopes regularly get exposed to. Since the coatings are pretty much the most important aspect of the glass, keeping them around is pretty important.

So, tier 1 stuff does offer significant advantages. Whether or not this is worth is depends a lot on the relativity of money and we live in a time with almost unfathomable relativity of money. If you have a lot of money you should always buy better. If you have only a little you should only buy better if shooting is something you do a lot and is important enough to command a substantial portion of your resources.

 

[BCMulx]

The way I look at it is that durability and reliability when you need it is priceless. If you ever have a piece of gear fail you when you need it, blow a shot, blow a hunt, think about how much a no questions asked warranty means to you at that point, or think about what it cost you at that point. If you're just banging steel, the penalty of failure might not be much. If you've got a shot an animal you might not get again, or you're competing, that can be a pretty high penalty.

I've had rangefinders fail, and been without them for 6 weeks while they were getting replaced. I've had a bow fail, and had to walk into a store and buy a new one retail on the spot as not to mess up an upcoming hunt I'd been planning all year. And, I've also passed shots on animals because I couldn't quite make out if they were legal through the glass in the opening minutes of shooting light. All of those scenarios would have been avoided with either better equipment, or having a backup ready to go.

YMMV...

 

[dzander]

I found a Kahles 624I SMR3 mil, left side windage in the PX for under $2k. It is like new. I am new to long range shooting. I've shot 5 or so matches out to 1000 yards. Previous scopes I've owned are 30 year old Leupold varx111, Zeiss conquest HD 5x25 , and a leupold HD5 3x15. Never shot long range with those 3, they were on hunting rifles and served there purpose. The Leupold HD5 being the newest of my lower end scopes. Its a decent scope for the $900 I spent for it but never dialed it like I need to do for long range shooting. The old Vari xiii had a erector problem which caused my groups to open up, Leupold repaired. The first Zeiss conquest I had wouldn't track worth beans, they replaced it. I love the SMR3 reticle with the floating dot on the Kahles and the FFP. With my limited experience all I can say is I all ready decided to buy another Kahles and sell off the others. The Kahles tracks perfect as far as I can tell. I believe you get what you pay for. I'm 65 years old, to me it's not worth it to screw with these lesser scopes. Buy a good one once and be done with it. It's cheaper in the long run. I'm sure there's better than what I have but at this point Im very confident this Scope isn't holding me back, it's way better than my capability at this point. Very seldom has the spotter said my elevation needed correction, 98% when I miss I know I pulled the shot or I got the wind wrong. I'm very impressed with the Kahles.

 

[Steel head]

I think if your really serious about this game they are entirely a valid option.

 

[equilibrium]

There is a saying; “Once you go Nightforce you dont go back.” I think that is how it goes?

Buy what you can afford and work with what you got. I have seen shooters tag a plate consistently at 1.1k with a savage and a low end scope, but the guy with a S&B and custom stick shoots a 1ft group and 300.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Keep in mind your yearly round count.

The more you shoot, the more you’ll notice and appreciate the little things. Like not needing to adjust parallax or strain as much to see through mirage when you’re shouting 5-10k rnds a year.

If you shoot 1200 rnds a year, you’ll notice much less differences.

If you drive everyday for work, you’re going to make sure you have a comfortable vehicle with creature comforts. If you run everyday you’ll have awesome running shoes. If you don’t do either of these a lot, you won’t care if you don’t have the best. Same idea with optics.

 

[Steel head]

There is a saying; “Once you go Nightforce you dont go back.” I think that is how it goes?

Buy what you can afford and work with what you got. I have seen shooters tag a plate consistently at 1.1k with a savage and a low end scope, but the guy with a S&B and custom stick shoots a 1ft group and 300.

Meh
Nightforce scopes are awesome but I wouldn’t call their glass top notch.

 

[cdeiglmeier]

First off, it is not really about accuracy. Benchrest guys mostly use pretty inexpensive stuff. They really just want high magnification, light, and that holds zero. They are not asking much from a scope and don't need much. A better scope will not make you more accurate or even more precise.

Tier 1 scopes tend to be better in the following ways:
1) Better glass primarily means more field of view, more depth of field, less distortion, and higher resolution:
What this means to us is that you can see the trace of your shot though the air better which can be vital in making out where a miss went especially if there is not berm directly behind the steel. You can also see splash better in conditions where this can be tricky due to foliage or dust that is blowing around the target area. You can see your hit on the actual steel better as well. I have been amazed at hits I have sometimes seen at 1k yds though an S&B that I never would have thought I would see. Lastly, you can sometimes better deal with mirage with a tier one optic both with respect to getting a wind read from it and with respect to understanding where the target actually is as mirage can obscure this or mislead you.

2) Better features mean you are less likely to get lost in the revolutions and totally blow a shot:
A simple turret like a sub $1k scope has moves up and down with the adjustment and typically doesn't have a turn indicator. It is easier to end up on the wrong rev with this than with the turn indicator 15 mil turret you often have on a tier 1.

3) They can be more durable mechanically:
Tier 1 stuff does not just have brass adjustment internals running on a bushing. It can have steel running on bearings. This can wear much better.

4) They can be more durable optically:
The coatings on tier 1 stuff last much longer when exposed to the sun and wet that scopes regularly get exposed to. Since the coatings are pretty much the most important aspect of the glass, keeping them around is pretty important.

So, tier 1 stuff does offer significant advantages. Whether or not this is worth is depends a lot on the relativity of money and we live in a time with almost unfathomable relativity of money. If you have a lot of money you should always buy better. If you have only a little you should only buy better if shooting is something you do a lot and is important enough to command a substantial portion of your resources.

This to a "T". It's the little details that make the Tier 1 optics worth it. I believe that glass in this realm of scope is completely subjective. What one person might like another person might not or vice versa. But, it's the final fit and finish of the scopes that set them apart.

 

[1moaoff]

Do I buy the condom I know will work, or buy the budget condom and hope I dont end up with a fuck trophy?

You mean crotch goblin!!!
Never had them never will!!!
Also I have never changed a diaper in my life!!

 

[equilibrium]

Meh
Nightforce scopes are awesome but I wouldn’t call their glass top notch.

It is the eye of the beholder and I have a preference for the ATACR. Ive used a SB, Kahles and Minox of which I have no qualms of buying due to price but NF is what fit my eye and customer service is another qualification when I buy something. On the other hand I have been thinking of a ZCO but it would look out of place with my NF scopes.

 

[Snipe260]

Because if I have a tier one optic, it makes me a tier one operator !

 

[Darayavaus]

I see on a lot of forums people complain about optical clarity of optics such as the XTR2 and I understand the importance but we’re not bird watchers. We don’t need to count the hairs, we’re simply putting lead on target and for a lot of us that’s a big dinner sized steel plate.

the darker it gets into the evening, the more you notice glass quality. Any POS looks fine in ideal light conditions, but that's not when animals typically move. when the animal you want is mixing in with a group, or standing near similar racks at last shooting light, you need the clarity and fine detail.

 

[TheGerman]

Man - folks are different or I’m old fashioned.

I had 2 kids as soon as I could. Now I’m not even 40 and the first set is gone. Gonna see if I can talk the ladies around here into having maybe 10 more of em.

I can’t let the lefties win, and 12 homeschooled right wing fire team members is a good start in fixing things.

No offense to those with feels about their kids (lol who are we kidding, I dont care)

But my wife looked at me a few years back and was like 'we should have kids, everyone else does'. After I spit my drink out I looked at her and asked, yeah, but have you seen their lives after? LOLOLOLOLOL

I don't know, I just haven't woken up in the morning yet and thought 'shit, I need some constant noise and nonstop fucking destruction in my life'.

 

[Prebanpaul]

I have Burris xtr2's They track repeatedly well. I have shot out to a mile with them on steal targets.
I have Schmidts, Minox, Nightforce, I can see better at a mile and better the last 30 min of the night by far.
I had two PST's both failed from one summer in the back of a trunk bouncing around on a 17hmr.

My point, can you shoot out to a mile using a sub 800 dollar scope yes Can you do it with a top tier scope easier, by far.

Buy the most expensive one you can. Most people on here use their gear for hunting and defensive purposes. That means you need to buy the best you can afford.

You don't want the buck of a lifetime come out and have a scope fail. You don't want to rely on it in a defensive position and have it fail.

 

[Steel head]

I have Burris xtr2's They track repeatedly well. I have shot out to a mile with them on steal targets.
I have Schmidts, Minox, Nightforce, I can see better at a mile and better the last 30 min of the night by far.
I had two PST's both failed from one summer in the back of a trunk bouncing around on a 17hmr.

My point, can you shoot out to a mile using a sub 800 dollar scope yes Can you do it with a top tier scope easier, by far.

Buy the most expensive one you can. Most people on here use their gear for hunting and defensive purposes. That means you need to buy the best you can afford.

You don't want the buck of a lifetime come out and have a scope fail. You don't want to rely on it in a defensive position and have it fail.

Please don’t steal targets.

 

[Prebanpaul]

There are no cops now, I thought we were allowed to steal the steel targets. I can't even change it now, because no one would get it.

 

[1moaoff]

No offense to those with feels about their kids (lol who are we kidding, I dont care)

But my wife looked at me a few years back and was like 'we should have kids, everyone else does'. After I spit my drink out I looked at her and asked, yeah, but have you seen their lives after? LOLOLOLOLOL

I don't know, I just haven't woken up in the morning yet and thought 'shit, I need some constant noise and nonstop fucking destruction in my life'.

None here for either of us, never changed a diaper in my life either.
Wife and I are 45 so we made our choice and I'm happy with it....
And anyway now no one inherits anything !!!

 

[Dthomas3523]

No offense to those with feels about their kids (lol who are we kidding, I dont care)

But my wife looked at me a few years back and was like 'we should have kids, everyone else does'. After I spit my drink out I looked at her and asked, yeah, but have you seen their lives after? LOLOLOLOLOL

I don't know, I just haven't woken up in the morning yet and thought 'shit, I need some constant noise and nonstop fucking destruction in my life'.

Anytime you’re thinking you might, walk around any Walmart or supermarket. Especially in the summer.

Just look at the faces of the parents.