Are varmint rifles, expendable?

[308220]

Im sure this will ruffle some feathers. Are traditional varmint rifles expendable for varminting? Mainly 22 caliber cartridges and smaller. I see where they would still have a place with fur sellers. Shooting light, explosive bullets. But if youre not selling the pelts, why limit yourself? And the last I checked, pelts werent selling for much of anything to make it worth your time. When youre talking 50-55gr bullets, youre looking at around 400 yards MAX, before the wind starts making things unbearable. Many people will order up fast twist 223, 22-250 and 220 Swifts to shoot coyotes at long ranges with target bullets. But wouldnt it make more sense to just shoot them with a high BC 6mm or 6.5mm? Or ANY caliber larger than 22. High BC 22 caliber bullets arent "cheap". And you can dump them harder. And also have a great deer caliber too.

On a side note, I wish bullets manufacturers would introduce some legit, 80gr+, 22 caliber hunting bullets. Right now, we're basically limited to explosive varmint bullets, or target bullets that pencil through. An 80gr Partition would be awesome. Doom for deer. Or a 80gr, Berger VLD hunting bullet. Yes, many people shoot varmints with their vld target bullets, but shouldnt we get a real 22 cal hunting bullet? Dont get me wrong, Im a huge 220 Swift fan. Arguably my most favorite cartridge of all time. Im asking you, what is YOUR appeal to the 22 cal for varmints, as opposed to using something else?

 

[spife7980]

I think the main attraction has to do with how flat shooting they are within typical varmint shooting distances. Sure the high bc 6mm would be better further out (and plenty of people varmint with 243s) but I can't remember the last time I saw a coyote past 400 yards when calling. If you wanted to make a 6mm just as flat you'll be just as deep into barrel burner territory.

and they didn't use to have dialing turrets or anything so the flatter the better. I feel much of the effects from that are still being held over. And it still is quicker to point and shoot then to have to dial.

 

[MarkCO]

Shot a 45 pound male coyote at 780 yards with my .243Win last year, I dialed. I sold my .22-250 barrel for my Encore last month (was my 3rd in .22-250) and my .22-250 bolt gun was on its 2nd barrel I sold the year before...I just didn't shoot them anymore. They were both slower twist heavy varmint barrels. I find myself more interested in a .223 (bolt and gas) set up well for matches and training and using it for predators when I want to. With the accuracy of the Ruger Americans, I am not sure what I will do with them when I shoot out the barrels. Hard to spend $500 rebarreling a $400 gun when I could sell it for say $200 and buy a new one for $400. Quality of barrels, components, glass has made the precision tools less costly and that transfers over to more areas than a match shooter might realize.

So, in the traditional sense, yes, I think you make a valid point.

 

[Supersubes]

Varmints to me means squirrels and prarie dogs. I always bring one 6mm with heavy bullets for the long shots, but that wouldnt replace my .20 practical and .223. There's just no way to put the round count out of the 6mm that i'd need. Hundreds of rounds per day per rifle. Then there's component costs. The .20 and .223 are far cheaper to load for. I'm about to chamber for an even smaller cartridge, the .20 vartarg, which will further bring down costs (and barrel heat), while still being capable to 300 yds. All of those can easily whoop a coyote, although id probably pick a sturdier bullet if yotes were the primary goal.

On another note, the 6mm and 6.5 match bullets seemed to wound quite a bit. My 20 almost never does that unless I clean miss. The vaporizing bullet seems to take care of poor shot placement. Edited: By wound, i mean prarie dog or squirrel running back to it's hole with it's guts trailing behind it.

 

[Supersubes]

The 20's(none of them) can begin to hang with a 223/223AI. They simply haven't the BC to fend atmospherics,nor retain velocity.

Launch velocity is moot,as impact velocity is what matters.

The 75 ELD's BC is a nice bump over the A-Max of like weight and it's modest bearing surface,makes it easy to scoot right along. It's pile driving ass doesn't hurt the equation and it's versatility is sensational. This year will be a fucking bonanza for it on Game,as everyone is transitioning that direction,as 75 A-Max hordes are shot up.

The 75A-Max is a sensational Game bullet and it kills the fuck out of everything,up to and including Elk.

At my varmint distances, say 350 yards, my 20 practical is 50% flatter and has almost identical wind drift to a 75 eld, and I was optimistic with the eld velocity(with my .223). Id also bet that they wont explode anything like the blitzking, which is part of the fun. You and I have different uses though, so we're not debating the same thing. The eld does appear to be a nice bullet. They're on sale for $19/box at midway right now, and in stock. Hell of a price.

 

[Supersubes]

I used 2950 for my calculation on the 75 eld, which is much faster than id get with my 20" .223(shot thousands of 75,77, and 80 grs through it)

So half again flatter at 350 yds with near identical drift for the my 20. Its also going almost 500 fps faster when it gets there. It vaporizes shit way better than any heavy 22's even if the velocities were identical. My targets are no larger than bunnies, so the 20 does just fine.

 

[xdeano]

The 75 and 80 amax are great in a fast twist 22. I've got a 22-243 for shooting Coyotes. 77 tmk do a good job too. Heck the 80grn burgers do a great job as well.
I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a deer with any of the above mentioned bullets.
Xdeano

 

[Supersubes]

"Convince" yourself,of that which you MOST need to hear. I simply shoot it all and needn't Theorize.(HINT)

I've 75 MOA custom rails on my 22LR Anschutz 54's,so I can get past the 500yd line.



You've never even SEEN a 75 ELD,let alone fucking shot one or hit something with it.(HINT)

I'm rather at ease in Utility,with said projectile(s),if only because I've shot every bullet cited and a bunch that ain't.(HINT)

10yds.



Multiple football fields away.



Utility.



Have a pard who's Favorite rifle has sluiced (3) Dall Sheep greater than 40" each,with a single 75 A-Max a piece.

Bless your heart.

Are you saying the eld flies better than it's bc suggests? Do tell!

Go ahead, post another pic of your guns.

 

[Tucker301]

Welcome back, Larry!
Goodbye Larry!

 

[Supersubes]

Shot lots of the 75 amax. Looks like the eld is .1 mil flatter to 600. Your right, thats setting the world on fire! I never disagreed that it proba ly a good bullet. I shoot the eld in 6.5 and .338. I like them alot. Keep talking about the 75 like it's got wings and rocket boosters!

We can't legally take big game with the .224 here, so i couldnt care less about that.

Squirrels the size of soda cans, no need to sling 75's at them when a 20 is faster, flatter, and more explosive.

Why dont you show me .223 AI # 7. Not sure I recall that one?

 

[Tucker301]

Old Reliable can't come out and play.
He had to go back to "Kansas".

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Old Reliable can't come out and play.
He had to go back to "Kansas".

Damn I was actually going to ask him a serious question about his .22 Grendel loads. Not sure if his answer was going to hold water but worst case scenario it would have been entertaining.

 

[Tucker301]

That's the way it is with him. You can ask as serious question, but the answer can be anything from serious to something about your mother.

 

[supercorndogs]

[h=2]Your Input Variables[/h] Ballistic Coefficient 0.290 Velocity (ft/s) 3700 Weight (grains) 53 Maximum Range (yds) 1000 Interval (yds) 100 Drag Function G1 Sight Height (inches) 1.5 Shooting Angle (degrees) 0 Zero Range (yds) 100 Wind Speed (mph) 10 Wind Angle (degrees) 90 Altitude (ft) 0 Pressure (hg) 29.53 Temperature (F) 59 Humidity (%) 0.78 [h=2]Ballistics Results[/h] RANGE (YARDS) VELOCITY (FPS) ENERGY (FT.-LB.) TRAJECTORY (IN) COME UP IN MOA COME UP IN MILS WIND DRIFT (IN) WIND DRIFT IN MOA WIND DRIFT IN MILS Muzzle 3700 1611 -1.5 0 0 0 0 0 100 3321 1298 0 0 0 0.8 0.8 0.2 200 2974 1041 -1.7 0.8 0.2 3.4 1.6 0.5 300 2654 829 -7.3 2.3 0.7 7.9 2.5 0.7 400 2356 653 -17.9 4.3 1.2 14.7 3.5 1 500 2076 507 -34.8 6.6 1.9 24.4 4.7 1.4 600 1818 389 -59.8 9.5 2.8 37.3 5.9 1.7 700 1583 295 -95.4 13 3.8 54.2 7.4 2.1 800 1377 223 -144.9 17.3 5 75.7 9 2.6 900 1208 172 -212.9 22.6 6.6 102.5 10.9 3.2 1000 1085 139 -304.9 29.1 8.5 134.5 12.8 3.7

400 yard max for 50-55 grain bullets. No, not at all. When its windy, I call in cover. I think they have trouble hearing over long distance when its windy. I have never had much luck in the open on a windy day anyway. I've been getting $25 for full carcass, 40-75 for undestroyed coyote hides. Of course that requires proper skinning and sewing up a little bullet hole.

 

[308220]

[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"http:\/\/www.hornady.com\/ballistics-resource\/assets\/snippets\/custom\/ballistics_calculator\/images\/print-header.jpg"}[/IMG2]

Your Input Variables Ballistic Coefficient 0.290 Velocity (ft/s) 3700 Weight (grains) 53 Maximum Range (yds) 1000 Interval (yds) 100 Drag Function G1 Sight Height (inches) 1.5 Shooting Angle (degrees) 0 Zero Range (yds) 100 Wind Speed (mph) 10 Wind Angle (degrees) 90 Altitude (ft) 0 Pressure (hg) 29.53 Temperature (F) 59 Humidity (%) 0.78 Ballistics Results RANGE (YARDS) VELOCITY (FPS) ENERGY (FT.-LB.) TRAJECTORY (IN) COME UP IN MOA COME UP IN MILS WIND DRIFT (IN) WIND DRIFT IN MOA WIND DRIFT IN MILS Muzzle 3700 1611 -1.5 0 0 0 0 0 100 3321 1298 0 0 0 0.8 0.8 0.2 200 2974 1041 -1.7 0.8 0.2 3.4 1.6 0.5 300 2654 829 -7.3 2.3 0.7 7.9 2.5 0.7 400 2356 653 -17.9 4.3 1.2 14.7 3.5 1 500 2076 507 -34.8 6.6 1.9 24.4 4.7 1.4 600 1818 389 -59.8 9.5 2.8 37.3 5.9 1.7 700 1583 295 -95.4 13 3.8 54.2 7.4 2.1 800 1377 223 -144.9 17.3 5 75.7 9 2.6 900 1208 172 -212.9 22.6 6.6 102.5 10.9 3.2 1000 1085 139 -304.9 29.1 8.5 134.5 12.8 3.7

400 yard max for 50-55 grain bullets. No, not at all. When its windy, I call in cover. I think they have trouble hearing over long distance when its windy. I have never had much luck in the open on a windy day anyway. I've been getting $25 for full carcass, 40-75 for undestroyed coyote hides. Of course that requires proper skinning and sewing up a little bullet hole.

And what 53gr bullet are you shooting that has a BC of .290?
The vmax? I seriously doubt it is a real .290 BC. What is your max distance with that bullet for coyotes? Since 400(ish) yards isnt even close to max distance. 600-700 yards?

 

[predatornut]

My primary coyote rifle is a 22-250 (14 twist) shooting 50 gr v-max. I always try to call them in to inside 200 before I start throwing lead so the low BC doesn't really factor in. I really like my setup and have no plans to change, some may not agree but that is why we have such a variety of rifles and cartridges to choose from.

If you are thinking of using your 22 on larger game, take a look at the 60gr Nosler Partition. It requires a faster twist than my 22-250 (12-10 I believe) but they shoot about moa out of my 223 ar which is just fine for deer inside the capabilities of the round.

 

[tylerw02]

Define varmint? I sure as hell wouldn't want to shoot 1,000 rounds of .243 over a prairie dog field in a weekend....but a .223 or .204/.20 practical can handle it and cost a helluva lot less. You probably won't toast a barrel every trip either.

As far limited to 400? What are you smoking? I've made kills over 700 with 39 gr SBKs on the first round.

Would it be my first choice for coyotes? Nope.


Would it be my first choice for saving pelts? Nope.

Define the task at hand, then determine the gear.

As for going 6mm solely for double use with deer...you do realize barrel live sucks on 6mm rifles. Hell, I use an AR15 90% of the time and load up 70gr TSXs. Works fine for reasonable ranges in the timber.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[spaniel]

That's the way it is with him. You can ask as serious question, but the answer can be anything from serious to something about your mother.

Thank you, Tucker.

Yes, to me there is a difference between varmint and predator rifle. I do prefer a 243/6mm for predators if I think the range will be long, but for calling I use a .223 for no other reason than that's what my AR-15 shoots and I want the semi-auto capability on coyotes.

For true varmints, I love taking my 243AI but that's pretty expensive barrel life and in components. I try to keep the AR and 20 Practical for 300-350 yards and under. There is also the issue of barrel heat, prairie dog hunting is often fairly rapid fire in warm weather and the small, fast rounds don't heat up the gun as quickly as a high performance 6mm.

 

[steve123]

Old Reliable can't come out and play.
He had to go back to "Kansas".

If he'd just play a tad nicer but that goes against his personna. Too bad because he's smart, though tip of the needle in opinion. Has great pics too.

A way with words without peer. Ya know there's "Nobody" quite like him.

 

[2ndamendfan]

Not sure who Larry is. I almost always seem to miss the good melt downs.
But guns/calibers are like tools in a tool box. A cresent wrench is actually a pretty shitty wrench.

 

[steve123]

Everything always has a catch22 to it, doesn't it.

I found what I thought would be the perfect low volume varmint cartridge, 20x47L. It sent 55gr Bergers at 3830 fps and was touching em at 100Y. I was elated until bullets started coming apart at the 300 round mark. Fortunately before that happened I got to shoot a huge rockchuck off the tippytop of the highest rock on a hill at 427Y which resulted in the coolest helicoptering I seen yet. I discovered the bullets coming apart when shooting at 1000Y on steel. Bad day, darn it.

New load light load which doesn't have any problems??? is 40vmax at 4100 fps which is still pretty kickass. Haven't tried it past 500Y.

Berger, where is your 85 grain hybrid in 22 cal, still waiting for the invention of? Might have to try a 22 Dasher with that one.

Haven't had a .224 bolt gun in years because I use the 6x47 or the 20x47.

20 Vartarg will likely be my next varmint cartridge. Basically 22-250ish ballistics, with much less recoil, barrel heating, powder usage and great barrel life.

Got a little 17Rem Cz527 carbine I use most nowadays. 30gr Golds at 3500 fps out of 17.5" custom super featherweight barrel. Just too handy and capable to leave it home.

Want to pop a yote way out there with the 6.5Saum!

 

[Deadfall]

You won't see me selling my 17Rem, 204's, or 223's anytime soon. Shooting hundreds of rounds in a prairie dog town is way to much fun with those rifles and my 22-250 and 243 won't last very long if I used them for that purpose. Coyote pelts up here aren't "get rich" high in price but if I shoot 50/year and average $65 each, I'm not going to shoot them with a rifle that requires sewing! A 204 shooting 39 SBK's and zeroed at 200 yards allows me to never leave fur while aiming at a coyote from 0-300. Tough to beat that IMO.

 

[nfoley]

Thought I recognized the (hint) in Old Reliable. lol

 

[supercorndogs]

And what 53gr bullet are you shooting that has a BC of .290?
The vmax? I seriously doubt it is a real .290 BC. What is your max distance with that bullet for coyotes? Since 400(ish) yards isnt even close to max distance. 600-700 yards?

I don't shoot coyotes that far away. The longest shot I took on a coyote this year was about 100y. My max prairie dogs with the 53 v max last year were around 725y[223 3400fps]. I hit them at 800+ with 50 g v maxes in a 22-250 at 3850fps. Yes they blow in the wind, not the bad at 300-400y when driven at 22-250 velocities. So yes 600, 700 might be a push with the 223 and 700+ with the 22-250. My 1 in 14 wouldn't run the 53 v max and my 1 in 7 burned out before I tried them.

But the crux of what I was saying is. If you are needing to shoot so many long shots at coyotes you need a dedicated long range rig for coyote hunting. You may just want to rethink your coyote hunting strategy. If you just want a long range rig, then you are just talking about what everyone is already doing. If you just want to buck wind and shoot at coyotes from long range, and blow hides all to shit, why not a 300 RUM and some 230 Bergers.

I dont personaly pull out the big guns and hammer them from long range anymore because all I see is little clever animals, covered in dollar bills.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Most of my applications can be accommodated with either the .223 or the .260, and the .280 lingers in the wings for the really long shots or the ones in need of more colossal terminal energy. I really dislike recoil, and this trio can serve up all the performance I'd likely need without causing yours truly to wither in the field (which is getting pretty easy to do lately). The only serious question concerns bullet construction and its relationship to the kind of terminal performance that's actually desired.

I'd count on the .223 for varmints out to about 250yd, the .260 to at least 600, and the .280 for 1000yd and maybe well beyond. As has been said, I am also uninterested in pelts. Varmints deserve colossal immolation, nothing less should serve.

Greg

 

[sandwarrior]

That's the way it is with him. You can ask as serious question, but the answer can be anything from serious to something about your mother.

I loved his "Barrel Break in" video, back when he was nobody. He has a lot of good info. Just doesn't play well with people when they doubt him. I've always made it a point to remain professional with him and I've been fine.

To the original topic. It all depends on what you want to accomplis and as said, define 'varmint' Some people sell skins and do well enough at it. I've found it a lot of work that ends up paying me $1-$2 bucks an hour when it's all said and done to get the hides sold. I won't say I'm right, but I'd rather spend that time shooting than skinning and tanning.

So, that said, if you can buy a 'battery' of guns you will use for varminting. If you save the hides, use a bullet/cartridge combo that doesn't tear up the hide. A good start is .218 Bee or Hornet pushed at low enough velocities so that the bullet doesn't rip out the backside. A .22LR is essential as well with shorts or standard velocity bullets. .22LR high velocity (1200-ish fps) tends to do more damage than you would want.

For sitting over a Pdog town, I'd take a .20 varmint/tactical/,204 Ruger or a .223 Rem. Get light bullets and push them pretty good, but don't get where they blow primers. They'll save the crap out of barrel life.
This is where the 'battery' comes in. If you have the cash get a long range varmint in either a tight twist .223 or a 6mm with a tight enough twist to shoot the 75 gr. A-max..or ELD if you prefer. Or just use HP's and not worry about it. Point is a 1-12" twist will handle up to 60 fr. FB's But they don't reach out accurately. Having a .22LR for short, a 1-12" for medium and either the 1-7" twist .223 or 6mm for long. You can get to 1k with 75 gr. Amax's. This also splits up your shots so your aren't cooking one barrel. No sense in burning up $100's in a new barrel when you could have slowed down or swapped rifles to let barrels cool.

Unless you've got money to burn, no, they are not expendable.

Added: Just so all of you know, I've gone the crazy route and shoot a 1-10" twist 6mm-.284. I've had to set the barrel back as much as 1.5". This thing borders on the ridonculous for short barrel life when loaded up, but it's nice to have a "friggin Lazer". I haven't found a way to attach it to a shark yet, but a lazer is a lazer. This thing works with 100 gr. HP's and spitzers, but the 75 br. A-max or HPBT, work so awesome it's silly. And, I don't have to load them super hot. After 1k of them, this time the barrel is not getting eaten alive. Easy to get 3500 with a low pressure load and not eat the barrel life away like an otter goes through clams.

 

[Supersubes]

Nobody is an interesting guy for sure. Not sure why he digresses to a condescending A-hole from his first response to any topic. Discussing topics is what we do here. I couldnt help poking at him yesterday. There's a zillion ways to kill varmints, with a lot of overlap in performance. Espousing one method over all others just sounds ridiculous.


For the sake of my terminal ballistics studies, ive shot prarie dogs with my .17 fb at 4200 fps all the way to my 6x47L/70 ballistic tips at 3500 from, from distances inside 30 yards. The 20's just seem to be more destructive than anything else ive used.

If i was going to do coyotes regularly with the 20 practical, id probably use the nosler ballistic tip. They have a really thick base, which tends to carry on through the target. Ive gotten more prarie dog double kills with that bullet than with the blitzkings or vmax's. I'm sure there are other sturdy bullets out there that would work too.

 

[308220]

I loved his "Barrel Break in" video, back when he was nobody. He has a lot of good info. Just doesn't play well with people when they doubt him. I've always made it a point to remain professional with him and I've been fine.

To the original topic. It all depends on what you want to accomplis and as said, define 'varmint' Some people sell skins and do well enough at it. I've found it a lot of work that ends up paying me $1-$2 bucks an hour when it's all said and done to get the hides sold. I won't say I'm right, but I'd rather spend that time shooting than skinning and tanning.

So, that said, if you can buy a 'battery' of guns you will use for varminting. If you save the hides, use a bullet/cartridge combo that doesn't tear up the hide. A good start is .218 Bee or Hornet pushed at low enough velocities so that the bullet doesn't rip out the backside. A .22LR is essential as well with shorts or standard velocity bullets. .22LR high velocity (1200-ish fps) tends to do more damage than you would want.

For sitting over a Pdog town, I'd take a .20 varmint/tactical/,204 Ruger or a .223 Rem. Get light bullets and push them pretty good, but don't get where they blow primers. They'll save the crap out of barrel life.
This is where the 'battery' comes in. If you have the cash get a long range varmint in either a tight twist .223 or a 6mm with a tight enough twist to shoot the 75 gr. A-max..or ELD if you prefer. Or just use HP's and not worry about it. Point is a 1-12" twist will handle up to 60 fr. FB's But they don't reach out accurately. Having a .22LR for short, a 1-12" for medium and either the 1-7" twist .223 or 6mm for long. You can get to 1k with 75 gr. Amax's. This also splits up your shots so your aren't cooking one barrel. No sense in burning up $100's in a new barrel when you could have slowed down or swapped rifles to let barrels cool.

Unless you've got money to burn, no, they are not expendable.

Added: Just so all of you know, I've gone the crazy route and shoot a 1-10" twist 6mm-.284. I've had to set the barrel back as much as 1.5". This thing borders on the ridonculous for short barrel life when loaded up, but it's nice to have a "friggin Lazer". I haven't found a way to attach it to a shark yet, but a lazer is a lazer. This thing works with 100 gr. HP's and spitzers, but the 75 br. A-max or HPBT, work so awesome it's silly. And, I don't have to load them super hot. After 1k of them, this time the barrel is not getting eaten alive. Easy to get 3500 with a low pressure load and not eat the barrel life away like an otter goes through clams.

I am also intrigued about the 6mm-284. Have you had any experience shooting heavier bullets in regards to barrel life? Im torn between either building a 6mm-284 or 6.5-284 Norma for strictly a long range hunting rifle. But cant really decide. I like the extra ass the 6.5 brings to the table, but the flatter shooting, lighter recoiling 6mm is very tempting.

 

[supercorndogs]

I am also intrigued about the 6mm-284. Have you had any experience shooting heavier bullets in regards to barrel life? Im torn between either building a 6mm-284 or 6.5-284 Norma for strictly a long range hunting rifle. But cant really decide. I like the extra ass the 6.5 brings to the table, but the flatter shooting, lighter recoiling 6mm is very tempting.

The 264 Win brings some extra ass also. I guess if you are looking at 284 you must have a standard bolt face though.

 

[steve123]

Been there, done that.

I had both 6-284 and 6.5-284 at the same time and both in benchrest actions with associated stocks. 30" length barrels. Barrel started going at 800 rounds in the 6.5, had it set back and was at 1"/100Y 400 rounds later - stiff load of H4350 with 140's at 3000 fps. If I had it to do over again it'd be with H-1000 to prolong life. I went to 6.5 Saum because a light load gets 2-3 times the barrel life and 100 fps over max 6.5-284. Even with my 6x47l, out of 5 barrels the worst life was 1500, one went 2400 and melonited barrel went 3000.

75 vmax close to 3700 fps in the 6-284. Got scared by barrel life of the 6.5 so I sold it with 300 rounds down the tube. Fantastic long range varmint cartridge, got a few PD's in the 700Y range. No brake on this rig so it was hard to self spot off the bags and didn't get a chance to go out with friends to walk me in.

 

[Stpilot12]

+1 on the 53vmax.. I run them at 3380 from my tikka varmint..
Shoots flatter and more accurately than the 50-55s (all that I've tried anyway) and is devastating on critters.. I've taken them to 630yds with "pleasing" results

 

[sandwarrior]

308220,

I was pushing 100's pretty hard and went through the barrel the first go round @ 700. So, what I found was lightening up 85 and 75 gr. loads gave me the best barrel life so far With a boat tail they get good distance. I've shot accurately out to 1k with each bullet type. Without getting a tighter twist barrel and pushing 105/107/108 high BC bullets, you aren't going to get super long range. Extended varmint range, yes, but without those bullets not going much farther accurately.

Of course, everybody here talks about 3100+ loads from a .243, You can load the longer/heavier bullets @ 2950-3050 from a 6-284 with a slower powder, reducing wear and tear. You have to back off that competitive edge to get the barrel life. In a varmint gun I think this is a good thing. But, when you go out to win comps, you can't expect to run last place in velocity and win. Barrels are a commodity in that arena. This cartridge eats them when pushing bullets hard.

 

[308220]

The 264 Win brings some extra ass also. I guess if you are looking at 284 you must have a standard bolt face though.

Yeah, standard boltface. When my 243 is shot out, or I get bored with it, thats when Ill go 6/6.5-284. Not crazy about magnums. If I was going to go "magnum", itd be a 7mm RM.

 

[308220]

308220,

I was pushing 100's pretty hard and went through the barrel the first go round @ 700. So, what I found was lightening up 85 and 75 gr. loads gave me the best barrel life so far With a boat tail they get good distance. I've shot accurately out to 1k with each bullet type. Without getting a tighter twist barrel and pushing 105/107/108 high BC bullets, you aren't going to get super long range. Extended varmint range, yes, but without those bullets not going much farther accurately.

Of course, everybody here talks about 3100+ loads from a .243, You can load the longer/heavier bullets @ 2950-3050 from a 6-284 with a slower powder, reducing wear and tear. You have to back off that competitive edge to get the barrel life. In a varmint gun I think this is a good thing. But, when you go out to win comps, you can't expect to run last place in velocity and win. Barrels are a commodity in that arena. This cartridge eats them when pushing bullets hard.

Id probably be happy with 1k accurate rounds of "hardcore" performance from a 6-284 for strictly a hunting rig. That would be a lot of dead dogs. I hear/read of people getting nearly 2k accurate rounds out of their 6.5-284 Norma rigs when not shooting the barrel hot. For a hunting gun, that would be nearly a lifetime. Unless I run into a herd of yotes on each stand.

 

[sandwarrior]

308220,

You make a good point, Shooting hot loads is hard enough on a barrel, but I've watched people shoot a barrel out in one day shooting harsh loads and continuing to shoot when the barrel gets hot. You can maintain military accuracy for a while doing that, but not precision level accuracy.

 

[MATADOR]

308220,

You make a good point, Shooting hot loads is hard enough on a barrel, but I've watched people shoot a barrel out in one day shooting harsh loads and continuing to shoot when the barrel gets hot. You can maintain military accuracy for a while doing that, but not precision level accuracy.

Agreed, I've always said longer strings of fire without cooling is much harder exponentially on a barrel than round count.

To the OP, an argument can equally be made on both sides of the discussion, but I will ALWAYS have .223 laying around.

 

[sandwarrior]

Agreed, I've always said longer strings of fire without cooling is much harder exponentially on a barrel than round count.

To the OP, an argument can equally made on both sides of the discussion, but I will ALWAYS have .223 laying around.

And you know when you're in a comp that is the "uncontrollable" thing that drives you nuts!

Added: No question, not having a .223/5.56 is like not having sunshine when you need the ice to melt.

Save​

Save​

 

[Garyc]

Varmints means prairie dogs and the like to me, not coyotes. I have a 6mmBR for the long shots on prairie dogs but the vast majority get shot with a braked 22-250. I've got a new 20 practical for this year but it hasn't been tried out on them yet. I like being able to see the hits, hence the brake. The 6mm definitely has it's place, but for 90% of the shooting the 22-250 is better, it's really the king on the prairie dog field. I'm expecting the 20 practical to be just as good. For all day shooting the bigger rifles like the 6mm and 6.5's are just too much, they suck all the fun out of it and fun's what it's all about. I have a .223 but I don't really like it for prairie dogs, it gives up a lot of velocity to the 22-250 and you lose a lot of the acrobatics that are so much fun to watch. It is cheap to shoot but it's just not one of my favorite PD rounds.

Coyotes I don't give much thought to, I just shoot them with whatever I've got in my hand. They die easily and the volume of shots isn't there to really worry about what to use on them.

 

[knockemdown]

Agree on the need to specify the 'varmint'.
For p-dog shooting, .223Rem based cartridges allow high volume shooting on a modest diet of powder & 'everywhere' brass. Necked down to .20Prac/TAC makes a little laser & great p-dog round. Or, fireform to .223AI for a step up in performance over parent .223 case. Or, neck up to 6x45 and lob varmint bullets with buku barrel life.

For coyotes, I like a hotrod & give zero fucks about barrel life. Only care about getting the most performance for the least blast & recoil.
Shoot a .243Win side by side, against a .22-243Win. Or a .243AI next to a .22-243AI. Or the NKOTB, .22Creed against the 6 or 6.5 Creed.
Point being, in the "mid' range 3-600yd range, a fast twist .224 can't be beat by its parent .243 case. And the .224 version allows less recoil while shooting flatter, too. Win/Win.

If you only shoot coyotes inside of 200yds, just about any of the above will work OK.

If you wanna shoot big game where a .224 cal. is legal, Barnes makes a 62 & 70gr TSX. @ 35-3700fps from a fast .224, no problemo to ventilate deer sized game, with either one...