are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

Jethro21

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Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

eleaf,

I understand what you mean, although I didn't mean it in the manner you took it. I guess a more appropriate phrasing would have been legal justification. Just because someone doesn't think an officer has legal justification to do something doesn't mean the officer does not have that justification.

Maybe splitting hairs but I think you understood my point.
 

eleaf

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Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jethro21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">eleaf,

I understand what you mean, although I didn't mean it in the manner you took it. I guess a more appropriate phrasing would have been legal justification. Just because someone doesn't think an officer has legal justification to do something doesn't mean the officer does not have that justification.

Maybe splitting hairs but I think you understood my point. </div></div>

I absolutely did understand your point, which is why I took the time to point out the language/logic differential from my POV.

My only real point is that words mean things, and when we're talking serious matters the like of rights, it's important that we don't muddy the waters by using language which doesn't match the ideas within.
 

Force_Multiplier

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  • May 22, 2008
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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: catronro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If a cop asks you to do something, do it</div></div>

    excuse me?... if that's how you really feel, I'll call the sheriff tomorrow and tell him retirement sucks, gimme a badge back... then I have some shit I need you to do.
     

    eleaf

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: catronro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If a cop asks you to do something, do it </div></div>

    Fuck all that.

    That's how free men become subjects.
     

    LoneWolfUSMC

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    There is a distinct difference between "asking" and a "lawful order".

    If you are walking down the street and I say something like "Sir, can I talk to you for a second?", you are absolutely free to say "no" and walk on your way. However if I say "Stop, Police" it is now a lawful order and failure to comply will most likely result in a "Fourth Amendment Seizure".

    Now it's my responsibility to know when I am justified to issue a lawful order. Failure to do so may end up in my termination, being sued, or even Federal Prison time for violating a citizens rights under color of law.
     

    Strykervet

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: catronro</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If a cop asks you to do something, do it </div></div>

    Fuck all that.

    That's how free men become subjects.</div></div>

    +1
     

    eleaf

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Failure to do so may end up in my termination, being sued, or even Federal Prison time for violating a citizens rights under color of law. </div></div>

    WIth all due respect, that's very unlikely to happen.
     

    GreenMtnRidgeRunner13

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    May 6, 2010
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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    More likely they will give you a paid suspension.

    At my job I get three weeks paid suspension a year, but for bad cops it can go on for months...
     

    TheTick

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    Dec 17, 2010
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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    I cannot possibly read through all of this, if I am being repetitive... sorry.

    To the OP,

    Yes, PA v. Mims states that a police officer can order all occupants of a vehicle out if he can articulate that there is a hazard to his safety. Terry v. Ohio is the case that allows officers to pat down the outer clothing for weapons ONLY when there is reasonable suspicion that the person is armed.
     

    11B101ABN

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Wolvenhaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The two times I've been pulled over and been asked to get out/allow a search of my car both were traffic stops and my answers were "Am I under arrest?" 'No' "Then I would prefer to remain in my vehicle officer" and 'Can I search your car' "No sir, I am not permitting a search of myself or my vehicle without probable cause or a warrant". Both times the officers left it be and drove off shortly after. Yes, they could have done both if I had actually broken a law, when you get a traffic ticket you are technically under arrest, however I honestly think it comes down entirely to how you handle yourself in the situation; being calm, polite, and respectful(not being a condescending "I know the law better than you") is going to determine how you're treated. Granted, I've yet to meet a cop here in GA who was anything but respectful and polite so my views are slightly skewed.

    You have to choose for yourself at what level you stand up for what you believe to be your rights and stick to them, no one can tell you what choice to make, when it comes down to it, it's your decision that matters. </div></div>

    If you are asked to exit, you exit. You dont need to be under arrest for the officer to tell you to do this.
     

    LoneWolfUSMC

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eleaf</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    WIth all due respect, that's very unlikely to happen. </div></div>

    I have seen it happen several times. I have also seen Federal Investigations for accusations of Civil Rights Violations. It happens. Many times it's someone lodging a complaint because they didn't understand what happened OR they are looking for a couple bucks in a settlement. However once in awhile they are upheld and the results are severe.
     

    LoneWolfUSMC

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GrnMtnRidgeRunnr</div><div class="ubbcode-body">More likely they will give you a paid suspension.

    At my job I get three weeks paid suspension a year, but for bad cops it can go on for months... </div></div>

    Punitive suspensions are usually unpaid and many Departments will make you serve your suspension on your days off. That means you get your pay docked and don't get any extra time off.

    Of course this is usually a labor contract issue and varies from Department to Department.

    A paid suspension wouldn't be much of a punishment.
     

    Wireman

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    A person who knowingly makes a false or misleading material statement to a public servant is guilty of a gross misdemeanor. "Material statement" means a written or oral statement reasonably likely to be relied upon by a public servant in the discharge of his or her official powers or duties

    Does it seem odd to anyone else but me that this is a law? And yet it is legal for a public servant to knowlingly make a false statement to the public?
     

    Unknown

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    There is a HUGE difference between being ASKED to exit your vehicle VS being TOLD to exit your vehicle. As was said earlier though, the place to argue with police is in court, not in the field.

    If they really screw up, their pension fund can end up in your pocket.
     

    UKDslayer

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: calling4life</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was at a strip joint with a buddy a few months back, he got hammered, I rarely drink and hadn't that night so I drove his truck.

    Got pulled over for "failure to dim," one of those; not my vehicle, not familiar with where all the switches are situations.

    The officer had me get out of the vehicle and go sit with him in his car, front seat next to him, and just BS'd with me like we were old high school friends.

    I've never even heard of this type of thing, he didn't search me, just immediately had me come back with him and get in the car.

    I got bored and started messing around with his shit, asking stupid questions and he finally let me go.

    Anyone wanna clarify why the officer would do this?

    If he's simply trying to see if I'm intoxicated, there are certainly better ways, we had a shotgun in between us, if i was drunk, and an a-hole, putting me in the front seat next to a loaded weapon isn't exactly wise.

    The whole situation left me feeling weird. </div></div>

    Hmm. You were driving another male intoxicated friend "home" late at night. Maybe officer "checking you out" and seeing which "team" you are on?
     

    ArcticLight

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    Cops put up wtih a LOT of BS and in the 5 years I was in LE I only saw one abuse of the vehicle search. That deputy is still a deputy in Kitsap County so no names.

    But the kid had a dir ty cigarette, you've smelled them, smell like stale pot...and he tore that car up and DOWN, HS kid and his girlfriend.

    Finally K9 gets there and doesn't hit on anything, this guys stuff is scattered for 20 yards and he said "I know you had pot but you are free to go" - BAD attitude.

    But ya know, cops have a job to do, if you are breaking the law and he has reason to suspect it, he will NOW call a K9 in - and if that K9 h its on you - he has probably cause.

    Don't break the law!
     

    11B101ABN

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Unknown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a HUGE difference between being ASKED to exit your vehicle VS being TOLD to exit your vehicle. As was said earlier though, the place to argue with police is in court, not in the field.

    If they really screw up, their pension fund can end up in your pocket. </div></div>

    Either way, it is lawful for an officer to have the occupants of a vehicle exit during a stop.
     

    Unknown

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    Sep 17, 2009
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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    If "asked" you have the right to say "No thank you". If you are TOLD to exit, you have to choose whether to follow the directive, or start up a bigger problem.

    Refusing to follow any lawful order (rather than declining a request) in the field is never a good idea.
     

    Triad

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    Re: are you required to exit vehicle if asked by cops

    I did not bother reading all the back and forth typing, but DAAAAMMM, can we get some more of those funny ass Fuck The Police photos???