Sidearms & Scatterguns ATF Seeks to Restrict Arm Braces
- Thread starter Longshot231
- Start date
Talk about bad timing to be rolling out unpopular “opinion restrictions” on very popular items.
FPC statement on ATF move to restrict pistol braces:
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-statement-possible-atf-action-ban-legal-products
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/fpc-statement-possible-atf-action-ban-legal-products
Thanks for including that.
What's up with the FPC... Are they a legit organization, kinda like what the NRA should be?
Seeing everyone shoulder their arm braces, I’m not surprised.
They are a legitimate organization. Just like the GOA, they don’t compromise.
They are starting a petition to Congress to defund the ATF.
https://www.firearmspolicy.org/defund_the_atf
Haha, awesome!
ATF answers to Trump. This is a Trump and Trump Jr. issue. This can stop with a phone call. Make the fucking call Mr. President.
Now I’m not a lawyer, but I think the letter that Rep Gaetz’s office sent said the ATF was trying to ban one specific but popular pistol brace, rather than all pistol braces, if I read the letter correctly.
@mountainman308
Maybe, but thats still a huge infringement, as if the ATF was not already in the business of encroaching on our rights.
Repeal the NFA.
Maybe, but thats still a huge infringement, as if the ATF was not already in the business of encroaching on our rights.
Repeal the NFA.
Not going to argue that point at all. I was just looking to clarify my understanding and see if I was going to be converting the grocery budget for this week into an S&B Tactical brace.
Just another fucking from the gov. Yes that is legal you can tool up, build an sell them. Just like many past reversals they don't give a fuck as they are getting budget increases to keep the ball rolling. De-funding them is the only tool we have, that they understand.
First they came for bump stocks. I don’t buy that cheap ass poseur shit, so I said nothing...
So they think everyone is just gonna turn in their braces after they specifically bought them after the ATF wrote a letter stating they were legal to shoulder! 
what a bunch of libtards. They shoulda thought that through a lil’ better if they didn’t want people shouldering them. I am sure they are targeting the only company that they actually mentioned in their letter I assume. Go arrest these idiots that are looting and rioting, stealing firearms outta police vehicles, make them get a job and off welfare, and leave us law abiding, tax paying citizens alone. Where I am at outside Las Vegas, some meth head robbed the post office, they let him out the next day, then he stole my friends new Chevy dually and a fithwheel trailer and they caught him with a bunch of meth in Yosemite park, let him out the next day again!!! But they want to come after our guns, makes total sense to the left! Geeeez!
what a bunch of libtards. They shoulda thought that through a lil’ better if they didn’t want people shouldering them. I am sure they are targeting the only company that they actually mentioned in their letter I assume. Go arrest these idiots that are looting and rioting, stealing firearms outta police vehicles, make them get a job and off welfare, and leave us law abiding, tax paying citizens alone. Where I am at outside Las Vegas, some meth head robbed the post office, they let him out the next day, then he stole my friends new Chevy dually and a fithwheel trailer and they caught him with a bunch of meth in Yosemite park, let him out the next day again!!! But they want to come after our guns, makes total sense to the left! Geeeez! Defund the ATF, because a 10 month wait for a form 4 is too fast. While we are on wishful thinking, a repeal of nfa, gca, and fopa would be nice.
While I'm no fan of the ATF changing their mind after making a determination, the shooting community isn't helping its case when ever Youtuber treats a pistol brace as an NFA work around.
They specifically said in their ATF letter that shouldering them did not change the brace and that shouldering the brace was legal From how I have read it, what did they expect people to do! Ha ha.
I don’t blame YouTubers or anyone else for arbitrary ATF interpretations of poorly written laws that littered the 20th Century.
ATF misses their 200$ per SBR stock.
For the last 3 years the ATF says shouldering a SB is OK. If in 2021 they reverse, I really hope a bunch of lawsuits from everyone who relied on the 20 Jan 2017 paper the ATF published with their "I don't give a fuck, a Republican is our boss" statement.
For the last 3 years the ATF says shouldering a SB is OK. If in 2021 they reverse, I really hope a bunch of lawsuits from everyone who relied on the 20 Jan 2017 paper the ATF published with their "I don't give a fuck, a Republican is our boss" statement.
yes... how dare those people brazenly and defiantly not break the law....
The brace thing is just low hanging fruit to justify their existence. If they spent more time chasing illegal weapons and markets, maybe they wouldn’t be bothering us over such pettiness. I’d be cool with ditching the ATF and have my stamps reimbursed.
If the ATF went after bad FFL holders and did what they could to let law abiding gun nuts enjoy do our thing, I couldn't care. But when a tax stamp can take a year to approve, but bad FFL holders can play games to keep their licenses to allow 'collectors' of High Points and Jennings to 'collect' even when those guns end up in evidence lockers... I work with retired a couple of ATF agents, and the stories they tell.
I remember back in the 90s when there was a call to disband the ATF and have the FBI pick up the slack. But the few times I've crossed path with the FBI I have to think the ATF just needs a good smack up side the head.
I remember back in the 90s when there was a call to disband the ATF and have the FBI pick up the slack. But the few times I've crossed path with the FBI I have to think the ATF just needs a good smack up side the head.
This video isn't about arm braces but is tangentially related.
well. when the ATF says its ok to shoulder a brace, its kinda ok to shoulder a got-damn brace.
Yeah... THIS one is gun owners fault.... posting hundreds of thousands of pics of arm braces, pics and videos of them being shouldered ALL the time just like a full stock, poking the bear called ATF, KNOWING what ATF is, then acting all shocked and wounded ATF would do this. You KNEW they are power hungry tyrants, and you played right into their tyranny. They almost had no choice but to do this, else it would invalidate the entire SBR regs. Those regs are unConstitutional for sure, but they are the LAW on the books and ATF *will* enforce them.
Same with posting vids of bump stocks that effetively made a semi into FA.
Enjoy your fun.... BUT SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't post in on the WORLD WIDE web. smh
The gun community needs to get smarter. Not JUST whine about tyanny, but anticipate its next move, and don't make yourself its target.
This one is a "look in the mirror" moment.
Same with posting vids of bump stocks that effetively made a semi into FA.
Enjoy your fun.... BUT SHUT UP ABOUT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't post in on the WORLD WIDE web. smh
The gun community needs to get smarter. Not JUST whine about tyanny, but anticipate its next move, and don't make yourself its target.
This one is a "look in the mirror" moment.
WRONG. They said "occasionally" shoulder. You KNOW what they meant.... that if it accidentally touches the shoulder, its not $10,000 / 10 years. You KNOW they did NOT mean "use just like a full stock." You KNOW that. But then ppl got stupid about it, and poked the bear. Messed with the bull, and got the horn. Posting pics and video of themselves abusing the ATF interpretation / ruling.
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I used to be of the opinion that we should disband the ATF and rely solely on the FBI for this since they already run the NICBS but after watching the FBI show increasing political affiliation and play fast and loose with FISA warrants I think the right path forward is that all of the bureau chiefs need to be elected officials rather than political appointees. These bureaus are allowed to govern without consent of the electorate and since they rely heavily on creating “rules” rather than “laws” (even though they still carry the penalties of a federal felony) they don’t have to be approved or ratified by any elected official or congress so there is no opportunity for our representative government to function and protect our rights. Sure, POTUS can wave his hand and it goes away, and the AG can put a stop to it, but neither of them are proving to be huge supporters of the second amendment unless it helps with re-election.
This kind of bureaucratic decision should not pass for a law and we should not face felony charges every time some pencil-pusher in DC changes his mind on what is and isn’t scary/legal. The NFA was unconstitutional from the beginning and now that items or accessories can be added or removed at the whim of some appointee it’s even worse. Our whole government system needs a colonoscopy performed with a 2” spade bit and flushed out with lemon juice.
This kind of bureaucratic decision should not pass for a law and we should not face felony charges every time some pencil-pusher in DC changes his mind on what is and isn’t scary/legal. The NFA was unconstitutional from the beginning and now that items or accessories can be added or removed at the whim of some appointee it’s even worse. Our whole government system needs a colonoscopy performed with a 2” spade bit and flushed out with lemon juice.
Here is the link to the ATF letter. Unless I’m missing something I cannot find the word “occasional.” Please tell me how you came by your analysis.
https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/atf-letter-march-21-2017.pdf
I've seen it repeatedly. Don't beleive me ? I don't really care. And REALLY don't care to take the time to prove anything here.
Point being.... all the "braces" being used continuously on pics and vids JUST LIKE stocks was poking ATF in the eyeball. And the tyrants reacted just as an intelligent person would have anticipated..... with more tyranny. Some of us saw thus coming. Some didn't. Or didn't care.
Peace. Out.
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The true SBR that I have is worth less than a pistol version of the same thing, because everyone cheats around the NFA and no one sees the value in waiting for the stamp for a legit weapon when they can buy the "same thing" on the spot.
True. And snakes shouldn't bite and poison ppl. But smart ppl know they do and give them a wide birth. Same with bureaucratic tyrants.
How the world SHOULD be is a great discussion. But it can never ignore how the world actually IS. And using baces as an NFA work around and then posting a million pics and videos of it was just stupid. And selfish.
E-filed Form 1's were taking a month last one I submitted (pre- COVID)
Its the$200 tax that ppl want to avoid.
I agree with you, just pointing out another example of why you should never trust the government. What you’re discussing is exactly why I never built a “pistol” with a brace, seemed like ATF was baiting people for improper use.
I don't know that it's that - it might just be to avoid the paperwork. If one gets an 80% lower, builds it as a pistol, and puts a short barrel on it, you now have what would otherwise be a tax stamped and 4473'd SBR (effectively) without any ATF red tape. $200 and a 1 month wait are trivial next to that for some people.
The $200 tax ***includes*** the paperwork. NO ONE just sends in a $200 pmt WITHOUT the paperwork.
My POINT was its NOT the 1 month wait.
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Unless I'm mistaken, you have to notify the ATF if you take an SBR out of state. You don't have to do that with a pistol. So it's not just a tax stamp issue.
You can also legally conceal a pistol in many states but cannot have a loaded rifle. That's how my state works any way.
Maybe you’re just dense, so I’ll speak fucking slow so you can understand.
The MONEY isn’t the issue. The WAIT isn’t the issue, either. The fact that the fucking government knows that you have the SBR and can do whatever they fucking want to with that information IS THE ISSUE for a bunch of people. Get that? $200 doesn’t fucking matter, and neither does a month. Some people would rather Uncle Sugar NOT know that they have the rifle in the first place, much less have them in a registered database for later confiscation.
Maybe try thinking without your head up your ass before you get all sarcastic and “SMH”.
Wow.
Our COVID join-ups have a large percentage of particularly stupid individuals.
probably voted for Hillary.
Perhaps you should request a name change to Karen?
Our COVID join-ups have a large percentage of particularly stupid individuals.
probably voted for Hillary.
Perhaps you should request a name change to Karen?
