- Thread starter Dead Nutz
- Start date
Ownership doesn't make you an expert. Knowledge does although I never claimed to be an expert on them. I do have experience with them. I am dropping out of this thread as I really don't have any dog in this fight and obviously nothing productive will come of it. Good luck.
I find the part in bold funny, you have a couple people that had a "bad experience" from wear in this thread so we are at a 20% and it's not an isolated issue. It's always the bad experiences you hear about not the good ones. I imagine if you started a new thread with a poll that it would be a very low percentage of unsatisfied people.
Bought one a few months ago and it's absolutely awesome. Had been using Harris, and still like them plenty, but prefer the Atlas. Will say I'm glad I have both as not all my rifles have picatinny rails to house the Atlas. It is nice the Harris only needs a sling swivel stud.
RHunter- my bad, you said- "LRA's are definitely the best. They make an Atlas look like a cheap toy. Atlas's are great for AR's and smaller caliber bolt guns but the recoil of anything 30-06 or bigger destroys them over time. I have 2 Atlas's that are damn near trashed from recoil and at $275 a pop, it's a big letdown." and I boiled all that down to "trashed".
Regarding my business model, I'm just a HS educated knucklehead with zero business training/education but I do understand the difference between leasing and and debt. I also understand the "tax benefit" of leasing vs owning, but again, that's not my model as money is not the priority. I appreciate your suggestion and could no doubt benefit from some counseling, on several levels, as I have made and continue to make mistakes. But as you know, having more facts about any given subject will always improve your understanding so I'll share that we have experienced triple digit growth year over year for the last 8-10 years which suggests we are doing something right with room to improve.
Regarding failure rate, we stand behind our products 100%. There is ZERO reason not to contact us about ANY "failure" be it breakage or wear, we want to see it and be afforded the opportunity to correct it. We sell 1000's of our products every year and get very few back for repairs, less than 1% which is still to much.
And I just thought about the cerecoating you mentioned, is that on the newer V8 and if so, was it disassembled/re-assembled by us?
Will you be so kind as to share what your back-ground is and what is it you do for a living today?
PM to follow with addy.
Regarding my business model, I'm just a HS educated knucklehead with zero business training/education but I do understand the difference between leasing and and debt. I also understand the "tax benefit" of leasing vs owning, but again, that's not my model as money is not the priority. I appreciate your suggestion and could no doubt benefit from some counseling, on several levels, as I have made and continue to make mistakes. But as you know, having more facts about any given subject will always improve your understanding so I'll share that we have experienced triple digit growth year over year for the last 8-10 years which suggests we are doing something right with room to improve.
Regarding failure rate, we stand behind our products 100%. There is ZERO reason not to contact us about ANY "failure" be it breakage or wear, we want to see it and be afforded the opportunity to correct it. We sell 1000's of our products every year and get very few back for repairs, less than 1% which is still to much.
And I just thought about the cerecoating you mentioned, is that on the newer V8 and if so, was it disassembled/re-assembled by us?
Will you be so kind as to share what your back-ground is and what is it you do for a living today?
PM to follow with addy.
I have an old atlas of the 1st gen style that has been on a 21# 300WM for years. Lately I've noticed that it's getting a little loose where the legs attach but it's still very stable.
Good catch, Kasey.
To the OP, if you'd like to try one, get in touch and we'll see if we can work something out so you can try mine out. Just PM me and I'll work out the details with you. It's been used a lot and is not the latest and greatest version, but you'll be able to get a good idea of how they function and see if an Atlas is the right choice for you. I'm a huge fan of some of the unique features and it works well for me and my needs.
RHunter- I'm sorry to see this thread turn silly. It seems more and more common here lately, it's happened to me as well. Tone is just way too tough to interpret through text. Phone communication is even challenging at times. We rely on so many non-verbal indicators in conversation that anything less than face-to-face can be tough. I have taken to playing it safe since my attempts at humor or sarcasm over the net have always ended in a mud-slinging failure. I suggested you contact B&T because I know that Kasey will take a hard look at your bipod and look for an opportunity to continue improving his design. He's a humble man who makes a great product. He knows that there is always room to improve and he welcomes the opportunity.
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the bipod that came with a Sako TRG42 338 LM is one very nice bipod,,,,
in my opinion rhunter doesnt need an atlas, he needs a lil rascal hoveround to hold his rifle and drive him to thhe range since i feel he is mildly retarded, just my opinion take no offense
Military Veteran, Masters Degree in International Business and Marketing, Worked for a large international military contractor (BAE) after my military career and masters was completed, hated the traveling and politics of it, quit that job after 3 years because I had 3 small children I was missing growing up at the time, started an international marketing company in Brisbane Australia, sold it when I inherited a residential and commercial building company founded by my grandfather and moved back to the US, sold it at the height of the real estate boom, currently own two companies, one is a business development and marketing consultancy, the other is a real estate brokerage I founded with my better half who is a real estate broker. (Keeps her out of my hair). I am down to working about 3-4 days a week, on the firing line the rest of the time.
Yep, and add to that the fact people don't take the time to read and really comprehend what they are reading..... It gets a little old having words put in your mouth and then receive criticism for it.
I have no idea, I bought it this way..... But it is a V8.
Sorry, I guess that would be just the same as me calling your kids ugly. But I will say that the quality of the LRA is really hard to compete with. It really is an amazing piece of equipment and the machine work is incredible. The only other companies I have seen that produce to that kind of quality are LaRue Tactical, CADEX, Wilson Combat... Surgeon... Couple others but its late....
Dont get me wrong, you do make a good product, I just stand by my opinion that it does not like to be over-loaded with a heavy weapon with stiff recoil. If it did, you would not be developing the V-10 so you have to have some agreement with me somewhere.
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Jong, you describe the V7 to V8 conversion. We have customers that are still shooting the V7, bought a V8 and then called us about getting more V7's... The principle issue with the V7 was the spring loaded leg deployment at the 45 degree position (the 45 position was introduced by us and has since then copied by many). While I shot it a ton at that position with zero failures, we had reports of the leg disengaging under recoil, the rubber foot would hold and the rifle moved 1/4" and bingo! So we re-designed the leg deployment/ position retention feature and got the V8.
Bigwheels - please see above and consider sending it to us, we'll convert it to a V8 for 50.00 including the S&H back to you (all that really covers is the S&H and labor).
RHunter, thank you for your service and that's a impressive resume, it would have been interesting to talk to your grandfather about business and his philosophy on it.
On the V8 you have, I'll be interested in seeing if we did the disassembly/reassembly on it for coating, not that it would matter 100%, but assembled right we would at least have that base-line comparison. I'll look forward to seeing it as well as the V7. On that, did you get my PM? I sent it but I'm not smart enough to find it as a sent message.
And those other companies you mentioned, "....LaRue Tactical, CADEX, Wilson Combat... Surgeon..." the best we can do is strive to build to that level of quality. A worthy challenge!
"Dont get me wrong, you do make a good product, I just stand by my opinion that it does not like to be over-loaded with a heavy weapon with stiff recoil. If it did, you would not be developing the V-10 so you have to have some agreement with me somewhere."
The Atlas (V8) was designed to have a small foot-print, provide Pan and Cant and have maximum range of elevation available for common rifle calibers, we accomplished that goal and introduced the then novel 45 degree leg position which really set us apart. The Atlas was not designed for big bore magnum rifles, that was not in the list of standards assigned to the Atlas project. As I said before the more information one has the better they can judge the matter to render an accurate opinion. So here's another fact, it was a mans decision to break his word, doing exactly what he stated he would not do, that inspired me to make a heavy bipod. Not the Atlas's failure on "over-loaded with a heavy weapon with stiff recoil" or desire for increased cash flow, it's the principle of it. We are blessed in many ways. We have more business today than ever before for our currently available products. We have several thousand PSR bipods on back-order and a SOF school-house breathing down our neck for the V-10 for their newfangled 50's. And that is why we'll go ahead and push the V-10 into the mix of madness here, not because we'll make more selling to the military. We don't. We discount all military sales. We'll do it because those guys deserve the best America can provide and I'm honored they think we can do that for them with the V-10. Another worthy challenge.
Bigwheels - please see above and consider sending it to us, we'll convert it to a V8 for 50.00 including the S&H back to you (all that really covers is the S&H and labor).
RHunter, thank you for your service and that's a impressive resume, it would have been interesting to talk to your grandfather about business and his philosophy on it.
On the V8 you have, I'll be interested in seeing if we did the disassembly/reassembly on it for coating, not that it would matter 100%, but assembled right we would at least have that base-line comparison. I'll look forward to seeing it as well as the V7. On that, did you get my PM? I sent it but I'm not smart enough to find it as a sent message.
And those other companies you mentioned, "....LaRue Tactical, CADEX, Wilson Combat... Surgeon..." the best we can do is strive to build to that level of quality. A worthy challenge!
"Dont get me wrong, you do make a good product, I just stand by my opinion that it does not like to be over-loaded with a heavy weapon with stiff recoil. If it did, you would not be developing the V-10 so you have to have some agreement with me somewhere."
The Atlas (V8) was designed to have a small foot-print, provide Pan and Cant and have maximum range of elevation available for common rifle calibers, we accomplished that goal and introduced the then novel 45 degree leg position which really set us apart. The Atlas was not designed for big bore magnum rifles, that was not in the list of standards assigned to the Atlas project. As I said before the more information one has the better they can judge the matter to render an accurate opinion. So here's another fact, it was a mans decision to break his word, doing exactly what he stated he would not do, that inspired me to make a heavy bipod. Not the Atlas's failure on "over-loaded with a heavy weapon with stiff recoil" or desire for increased cash flow, it's the principle of it. We are blessed in many ways. We have more business today than ever before for our currently available products. We have several thousand PSR bipods on back-order and a SOF school-house breathing down our neck for the V-10 for their newfangled 50's. And that is why we'll go ahead and push the V-10 into the mix of madness here, not because we'll make more selling to the military. We don't. We discount all military sales. We'll do it because those guys deserve the best America can provide and I'm honored they think we can do that for them with the V-10. Another worthy challenge.
I have a very small dog in this fight, LoL.
I have an Atlas and while I haven’t used it much I do like it and in my opinion it’s well designed and I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase another one. I would be interested in one of the heavier V-10 models if and when they come to market depending on pricing.
I tend to agree in some respects to some of the comments that the Atlas business could be making more product/money by increasing tooling, although…. With increased tooling come more personnel and the requirements of more space etc. It’s seldom as simple as picking up the phone and ordering a piece of machinery to solve a problem whether it’s real or perceived. I respect Kasey for stepping up to the plate and being honest about his business etc. I have produced aftermarket parts and accessories (on a much much smaller scale) and some of the issues will drive you crazy, my little products were never used by anyone while in harm’s way so I can only imagine the worries involved within that realm.
So to answer the OP I would say that within the price range of the Atlas, in my opinion it’s the best option that I have encountered, I have looked at some of the more expensive units available and didn’t purchase them because of the price point. If money is no object then go for a LRA or Elite Iron pod, I doubt that you would be disappointed.
I have an Atlas and while I haven’t used it much I do like it and in my opinion it’s well designed and I wouldn’t hesitate to purchase another one. I would be interested in one of the heavier V-10 models if and when they come to market depending on pricing.
I tend to agree in some respects to some of the comments that the Atlas business could be making more product/money by increasing tooling, although…. With increased tooling come more personnel and the requirements of more space etc. It’s seldom as simple as picking up the phone and ordering a piece of machinery to solve a problem whether it’s real or perceived. I respect Kasey for stepping up to the plate and being honest about his business etc. I have produced aftermarket parts and accessories (on a much much smaller scale) and some of the issues will drive you crazy, my little products were never used by anyone while in harm’s way so I can only imagine the worries involved within that realm.
So to answer the OP I would say that within the price range of the Atlas, in my opinion it’s the best option that I have encountered, I have looked at some of the more expensive units available and didn’t purchase them because of the price point. If money is no object then go for a LRA or Elite Iron pod, I doubt that you would be disappointed.
Those Elite bipods are insane. Talk about a go anywhere and do anything bipod....
I looked at one of them but considering everything I do is prone or a bench, it was a bit overkill. We don't have any rocks in Florida and at $800..No thanks! But it is a very cool concept and design for a bipod that works on any surface. If I was still hunting antelope and sheep in Colorado and Wyoming I'd get one for a hunting rifle in a second. The only drawback to it is the weight but it is a necessary evil for that thing to be as tough as it is.
I'm glad we finally got that sorted out.
I looked at one of them but considering everything I do is prone or a bench, it was a bit overkill. We don't have any rocks in Florida and at $800..No thanks! But it is a very cool concept and design for a bipod that works on any surface. If I was still hunting antelope and sheep in Colorado and Wyoming I'd get one for a hunting rifle in a second. The only drawback to it is the weight but it is a necessary evil for that thing to be as tough as it is.
I'm glad we finally got that sorted out.
I been reading this thread, and one thing is just stuck in my mind. I gotta wonder if RHunter did not get stuck with the "airsoft" counterfeits. I have (2)Harris, (1)LRA, and (3)Atlas. Too be honest I love each of them and they all have great points. I have a lot of rounds downrange on a Atlas mounted on a heavy .338, no problems. None! Zero!
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Well, the "best" is a subjective term and sometimes is determined only by a point of view as you have seen here. Interestingly, you might find that this subject is one of the most asked about on the site (along with MIL vs MOA, FFP vs SFP, etc.) Also, by the responses here you probably have surmised that for most that have the ATLAS it is considered to be the "best!" In fact, because of the performance of the bipod, the excellent customer service of the manufacturer, and the responsiveness, contributions, and integrity of the owner you see a pretty large group of loyal ATLAS customers...........almost cult like. Personally, my shooting is at it's highest when using the ATLAS and therefore consider it absolutely the "best." Occasionally you'll find someone that doesn't agree..............as always YMMV,
Someone sent me a PM about that, and these are not airsoft.
I do get that people have these and are happy with them on larger rifles. What floors me is that it seems to be hard for people to accept the fact I had problems with them because of the amount of use mine have received and lack of stability they offer. Everything wears out. Why is that such a big deal to accept?
It's this "Mine are therefore yours are too" or "I am and you must be as well" mindset that I find really odd.
That kind of thinking is rampant in our society... Seems diversity of opinion or experience is not allowed or acceptable. Everyone is so polarized to their opinions we have become so closed minded to others experiences and opinions to a point of being hostile. The juvenile part I can deal with, adds a bit of humor, but the hostile part, and the fact I have to defend my opinions and experiences, is really bizarre.
I've had arguments with guys over VLD seating depth, coriolis effect, video authenticity..... On this forum and it is always the same, some people just refuse to accept any opinion that differs from their own.
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[MENTION=1217]Kasey[/MENTION]
I do apologize for the "cheap toy" comment, I know you are really proud of your invention and you should be, its a great product. I am sure you have seen an LRA and knowing what you know about machine work and design, you have to appreciate what the owner of LRA (Think his name is David) created and the quality standards he sets for his product really are second to none. If someone asks me which is the best... It's hard to ignore that quality and consider it substandard to anything.
The thing about the LRA that is so compelling is when you tighten the tilt lever, that thing is rock solid. You literally have to work hard to tilt the rifle so it lifts one of the legs to change the tilt when that thing is locked down. When I have a 19 pound lever, I mean rifle on your Atlas, I have never been able to tighten that bottom knob tight enough to freeze the pan and tilt capability of your bipod. Once I have acquired my target with the LRA and tighten it down so the scope is plumb to the bore, the only movement that is easy to make is vertical which is exactly what I want to still be able to control. If I twist my body slightly left or right on an Atlas, I can still pan left or right when I have tightened that knob as much as my fingers will allow. Breathing is enough to move me off a 1000 yard target. That movement is detrimental when I am shooting a stationary target. I am not tracking a walking target. Better stability on the ground or on the bench means more hit targets or higher scores.
The pan and tilt is a great function for tracking targets, it's another factor that can cause a miss when aiming at a stationary one. Since I am not in the Army shooting people anymore and hunting is limited to a couple kills a year, 99.9999% of my shooting is done at a stationary target where there is no rush to place a shot. The looser that pan and tilt knuckle becomes from wear, the less stability I have to make up for slight body movements the LRA helps control. Even when your product is factory new, it still moves left to right when a heavy rifle is on it.
There are so many factors involved at placing a perfect shot and in order to do that, you have to eliminate as many of the factors that can cause a miss as possible. From truing an action, to turning the necks of brass, to using the right bullet, to using the right primer, powder, etc, etc, all the way down to the stability of the bipod. When the bipod falls below an acceptable stability standard, it is no longer functional for that particular use. In my case, that use is on a rifle with excessive weight. I never wanted to imply your product was crap, it is just harder to control the stability of a heavy rifle on an Atlas especially when you can no longer tighten that lower knob to a point it helps to correct for slight body movements.
A 1/10th of an inch movement at my shoulder is a half inch at the muzzle, 1/100th of an inch of movement at my shoulder is 1/20th of an inch at the muzzle.. doing the math I believe that translates to 36 inches at 1000 yards. If a bipod can hold that rifle so you can not easily cause that rifle to shift 1/100th of an inch horizontally at the shoulder, you just corrected a 36" horizontal shift at 1000 yards.
So how do you rate your bipod? Do you rate it for how much weight it can hold? Do you rate it for how much use the tension control will hold a certain weight of tension? For me, I rate your product on the stability it offers. I am the benchmark for that rating. Can your product perform better than anything else on the market when it comes to stability?
This is the argument that is extremely subjective and what I don't think most of the people in here have considered before beating their chest in defense of your product. There are a lot of shooters that are happy with a 3" group at 300 yards and if they did that on your bipod they are chuffed beyond measure. I, on the other hand, am not happy with 3" groups at 300. If I do that on an Atlas, then switch to the LRA and get 1 inch groups at 300, which is the better bipod? Nothing else changed, just the bipod.
So lets say that is the benchmark for your V8 product. If your V8 bipod can not control 1/100th of an inch of horizontal movement with a particular weight of rifle then it is not suitable for that rifle.... You can see how difficult something like that is to measure and how stability can only be measured by the person using the product and that shooters particular capabilities and/or habits.
That is why I got so pissed at Rob1 because he claims to know so much but his statements show how little he really knows because this is something that should have been as obvious as day to a really proficient match shooter.
Yet I am the one who is full of BS....
Now how much horizontal movement will the V10 control? Do you see why the V10 may not be an obligation and more of a requirement for your product line? Have I opened your eyes to something else you need to consider in your design or how you rate your product for a particular use? When you look at the design of the LRA, the barrel sits lower and the feet are spread wider. The rifle has a lower center of gravity relating to the bipod when resting in an LRA. That design greatly improves the control the bipod offers horizontally. There is no pan function on the LRA. One more thing that can cause a miss has been eliminated from that design. A shooter has more control over his body vertically than he does horizontally. My misses are almost NEVER vertical, they are, however, almost always due to horizontal movement or wind.
I do get that people have these and are happy with them on larger rifles. What floors me is that it seems to be hard for people to accept the fact I had problems with them because of the amount of use mine have received and lack of stability they offer. Everything wears out. Why is that such a big deal to accept?
It's this "Mine are therefore yours are too" or "I am and you must be as well" mindset that I find really odd.
That kind of thinking is rampant in our society... Seems diversity of opinion or experience is not allowed or acceptable. Everyone is so polarized to their opinions we have become so closed minded to others experiences and opinions to a point of being hostile. The juvenile part I can deal with, adds a bit of humor, but the hostile part, and the fact I have to defend my opinions and experiences, is really bizarre.
I've had arguments with guys over VLD seating depth, coriolis effect, video authenticity..... On this forum and it is always the same, some people just refuse to accept any opinion that differs from their own.
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[MENTION=1217]Kasey[/MENTION]
I do apologize for the "cheap toy" comment, I know you are really proud of your invention and you should be, its a great product. I am sure you have seen an LRA and knowing what you know about machine work and design, you have to appreciate what the owner of LRA (Think his name is David) created and the quality standards he sets for his product really are second to none. If someone asks me which is the best... It's hard to ignore that quality and consider it substandard to anything.
The thing about the LRA that is so compelling is when you tighten the tilt lever, that thing is rock solid. You literally have to work hard to tilt the rifle so it lifts one of the legs to change the tilt when that thing is locked down. When I have a 19 pound lever, I mean rifle on your Atlas, I have never been able to tighten that bottom knob tight enough to freeze the pan and tilt capability of your bipod. Once I have acquired my target with the LRA and tighten it down so the scope is plumb to the bore, the only movement that is easy to make is vertical which is exactly what I want to still be able to control. If I twist my body slightly left or right on an Atlas, I can still pan left or right when I have tightened that knob as much as my fingers will allow. Breathing is enough to move me off a 1000 yard target. That movement is detrimental when I am shooting a stationary target. I am not tracking a walking target. Better stability on the ground or on the bench means more hit targets or higher scores.
The pan and tilt is a great function for tracking targets, it's another factor that can cause a miss when aiming at a stationary one. Since I am not in the Army shooting people anymore and hunting is limited to a couple kills a year, 99.9999% of my shooting is done at a stationary target where there is no rush to place a shot. The looser that pan and tilt knuckle becomes from wear, the less stability I have to make up for slight body movements the LRA helps control. Even when your product is factory new, it still moves left to right when a heavy rifle is on it.
There are so many factors involved at placing a perfect shot and in order to do that, you have to eliminate as many of the factors that can cause a miss as possible. From truing an action, to turning the necks of brass, to using the right bullet, to using the right primer, powder, etc, etc, all the way down to the stability of the bipod. When the bipod falls below an acceptable stability standard, it is no longer functional for that particular use. In my case, that use is on a rifle with excessive weight. I never wanted to imply your product was crap, it is just harder to control the stability of a heavy rifle on an Atlas especially when you can no longer tighten that lower knob to a point it helps to correct for slight body movements.
A 1/10th of an inch movement at my shoulder is a half inch at the muzzle, 1/100th of an inch of movement at my shoulder is 1/20th of an inch at the muzzle.. doing the math I believe that translates to 36 inches at 1000 yards. If a bipod can hold that rifle so you can not easily cause that rifle to shift 1/100th of an inch horizontally at the shoulder, you just corrected a 36" horizontal shift at 1000 yards.
So how do you rate your bipod? Do you rate it for how much weight it can hold? Do you rate it for how much use the tension control will hold a certain weight of tension? For me, I rate your product on the stability it offers. I am the benchmark for that rating. Can your product perform better than anything else on the market when it comes to stability?
This is the argument that is extremely subjective and what I don't think most of the people in here have considered before beating their chest in defense of your product. There are a lot of shooters that are happy with a 3" group at 300 yards and if they did that on your bipod they are chuffed beyond measure. I, on the other hand, am not happy with 3" groups at 300. If I do that on an Atlas, then switch to the LRA and get 1 inch groups at 300, which is the better bipod? Nothing else changed, just the bipod.
So lets say that is the benchmark for your V8 product. If your V8 bipod can not control 1/100th of an inch of horizontal movement with a particular weight of rifle then it is not suitable for that rifle.... You can see how difficult something like that is to measure and how stability can only be measured by the person using the product and that shooters particular capabilities and/or habits.
That is why I got so pissed at Rob1 because he claims to know so much but his statements show how little he really knows because this is something that should have been as obvious as day to a really proficient match shooter.
Yet I am the one who is full of BS....
Now how much horizontal movement will the V10 control? Do you see why the V10 may not be an obligation and more of a requirement for your product line? Have I opened your eyes to something else you need to consider in your design or how you rate your product for a particular use? When you look at the design of the LRA, the barrel sits lower and the feet are spread wider. The rifle has a lower center of gravity relating to the bipod when resting in an LRA. That design greatly improves the control the bipod offers horizontally. There is no pan function on the LRA. One more thing that can cause a miss has been eliminated from that design. A shooter has more control over his body vertically than he does horizontally. My misses are almost NEVER vertical, they are, however, almost always due to horizontal movement or wind.
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Actually going to edit this and again leave it alone. Lets see if it is returned in turn and we can go from there.
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....and maybe throw 30-06's in there....if one were to shoot waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more than the average joe.
The point is I left the discussion 3 days ago but you want to keep bringing me into it. You can leave me out of your posts. No need to PM.
RHunter: The point I tried to make in the beginning of this thread was that your experiences seem to be unique with regards to the Atlas failing you or falling short of your expectations. Kasey has always been responsive to that sort of feedback, that is why I encouraged you to contact him. He's one of the rare hold-outs who still places higher value on his reputation and customer satisfaction than the bottom line profit of his company. His customer service and personal character have built what someone else referred to as a cult-like following here on the Hide.
I've tried to read your posts with no bias, and I just can't get past the fact that you seem to be saying the Atlas bipod is causing (by lack of prevention) a horizontal miss. Maybe we have different backgrounds and shooting styles, but in my world of shooting a rifle resting on a bipod, I don't blame the bipod if I miss. For someone who shoots as much as you do, I would think that you'd be beyond pointing towards equipment for inducing errors that your form and technique should be the master of. If you are talking about F-Class or BR style shooting and expecting the Atlas to fill that role, then yes, it is certainly lacking. I have never found it lacking in performing it's intended function and I still own one of the very first production models. The pan function is very important to me, as are the legs locking at 45 degrees. I still shoot at moving targets and from awkward positions, not just on a flat range or bench were those features may not be as desirable. With all that said, I can understand that the LRA may be better suited to your needs. I don't dispute your right to an opinion. I just don't happen to agree with it on the subject of the Atlas bipod being limited to light rifles, or how you've chosen to express yourself.
The tone (that I normally try to ignore in text) of the quote above is down-right rude. I don't think that's subjective. Maybe I'm just a dumb redneck, but we don't talk to people like that where I'm from unless we want to fight. For someone with a resume such as yours, I'd think that you would have more poise and be able to articulate your point without coming across as condescending. If you talk to clients that way in your business, I'd be surprised to see them stay. Maybe your tone and lack of tact is a symptom of being insulated at the top with no one around you that will tell when you're being a jerk.
Even your compliments seem to be followed with a backhanded slap that I just can't get past. At least you edited out all the other companies that you originally had in there and implied were also of higher quality. Just out of curiosity, were you an Officer in the Army? I have always found it hard to communicate effectively with Army Officers. That may explain why I am having a hard time with the way you are choosing to communicate your point.
Rob01 and I have shot a few matches together, though we've never made each others acquaintance. By his actions on this forum, I can tell that I would get along just fine with him. I can't say the same for you, but if you're ever in the SE shooting a match, please let me know so I can find out for sure. Rob01 is taking the high road, it is nice to see a moderator have that approach. Hopefully you will follow his lead.
Wow came into this thread to learn about bipods, because I am a noob and I thought Harris bipods were the uber expensive, super-duper best bipods in the world.
Then I learned about Atlas bipods and now have 2 on order, including 1 in the SH group buy - new PSR models, woohoo!
I also learned about LRA bipods which cost fricking $450+ dollars and I sh*t my pants just a little bit, more of a "shart" than a complete dump out, but still. Maybe one day when I forget how to do math.
Then I learned that a guy named RHunter is kind of a jerk, and I am saying "kind of" to be nice.
The End
(Just kiddin' RHunter, just bustin' yer chops. Thank you for your service)
Then I learned about Atlas bipods and now have 2 on order, including 1 in the SH group buy - new PSR models, woohoo!
I also learned about LRA bipods which cost fricking $450+ dollars and I sh*t my pants just a little bit, more of a "shart" than a complete dump out, but still. Maybe one day when I forget how to do math.
Then I learned that a guy named RHunter is kind of a jerk, and I am saying "kind of" to be nice.
The End
(Just kiddin' RHunter, just bustin' yer chops. Thank you for your service)
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That is my point exactly and YOU are also exactly right with what you said about the pan function. That is a feature some need. Florida is flat, not a rock in this state unless you go up north. Shooting here is done offhand, kneeling, prone, or on a bench. The only time you need panning with a bipod is when you are tracking a pig.
That is how you read it. I can ASSURE YOU, that was not meant IN ANY WAY to be rude. The V10 by design will offer more horizontal stability to heaver rifles. It will take off where the V8 leaves off. That is why that product would be good for his product line. Trust me, if that V10 was available today, I would own one.
Can I plead the 5th on that one?
Look, I can assure you, I am not trying to insult Kasey one bit. I am trying to get him to see where I am coming from with my statements so it is not interpreted as belly-aching BS and my statements are not being made without some substantive facts.
Actually it is a bit easier than communicating with them than some of the people in here. Its a bit easier to convey context when everyone is on the same page.
Being a good shot is the relationship of both. In simple terms, if you have a wall mart rifle and wall mart ammo, no matter how good you are you are not going to be a better shot than a guy with a purpose built firearm and tuned ammo. The bipod is a very important part of the entire system.
Heavy guns are easier to stabilize shooting prone or off a bench, I am sure you will agree with that, but that weight can also be a curse when you are trying to balance it on a single pivoting point. Look at that F-class LRA bipod, it has an even wider stance. What is the reason for it? Horizontal stability.
Everything I have been trying to say can be summed up with this:
My excessive use of the Atlas bipods I own has caused the pan/tilt function to become too loose on both of them for me to easily obtain good horizontal stability with a heavy rifle. The wear to the pan/tilt knuckle was caused by a lot of rounds down range from rifles that have significant recoil. I said they were still fine for my AR's... Because they weigh less than half of my bolt guns. I don't have the weight of those rifles working against me, the Atlas can support them just fine. By design the atlas supports the rifle by a single point, the post of the pan/tilt knuckle, when that gets loose you are balancing the rifle on a single support point that now moves easier than it should for the purpose. The LRA does not have this pan function and the tilt can be totally locked down. In the locked position you have 2 points of support, the legs. those two points, and the distance between them, provide horizontal stability. The greater that spread is, the more horizontally stable the rifle will be.
Make sense?
All the BS got started because some people don't believe you can wear that pan/tilt function to a point where it becomes looser than it is when you first get it from the factory, so I had to make my case there, and people don't see the need for horizontal stability, so again, I have to make the case there. That 1/100th of an inch remark puts it into a perspective some people will understand. How something so miniscule makes such a difference at long range and how that miniscule movement can be fixed with the right equipment OR equipment that is functioning properly.
For the life of me, I dont see why it is so difficult to understand how thousands of recoil pulses on that knuckle will cause it too wear out over time, and I dont see why it is so hard to understand that horizontal stability will be affected when it does.
Is that statement REALLY that unreasonable that we have to have two pages of shit and I have to justify every word with 5 lines of text?
The only reason I justify my statements in the first place is to give people something to consider because in the process "ahh ha!" moments are realized and those moments might finally get someone who shoots a 3" group at 100 yards to understand why he is isn't shooting 1" groups at 100 yards off a bench or prone position.
So back to the original question, is the Atlas the best? Perhaps the OP should clarify the question, best for what type of shooting?? You obviously agree with the point I have been trying to make:
Which one is best for that?
I happen to like the LRA
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I have 2 and like them. Will depend what you need them for as I find the Harris to be faster to deploy and a little more forgiving should you poke/knock yourself while moving/carrying with the bi pod extended.
It comes down to a personal preference;
Harris is faster and with a Lock Pod it locks just as solid.
Atlas is sturdier, but slower. I've also had 1 issue where a few grains of sand literally locked up a leg when they got behind the leg and "sprocket" you use to lock the legs into.
It comes down to a personal preference;
Harris is faster and with a Lock Pod it locks just as solid.
Atlas is sturdier, but slower. I've also had 1 issue where a few grains of sand literally locked up a leg when they got behind the leg and "sprocket" you use to lock the legs into.
Dead Nutz - Thinking. About getting one. Are they considered the best?
remington patriot - In my opinion, yes. I Have The three different versions of them and I wouldn't trade them for anything else out there
NoLegs24 - Take a look at the LRA Bipod. Sold both Atlas Bipods to get these bad boys and I am not going back.
RHunter- LRA's are definitely the best. They make an Atlas look like a cheap toy. Atlas's are great for AR's and smaller caliber bolt guns but the recoil of anything 30-06 or bigger destroys them over time. I have 2 Atlas's that are damn near trashed from recoil and at $275 a pop, it's a big letdown.
This is where you, RHunter, show your intentions are not really to help the OP but to show your bias for a product you are a fan of. The OP never stated his application nor do you ask the OP about his application or qualify your reply. And your following posts do nothing but re-enforce your bias for a product not based on application but rather no matter the application.
I never felt like I had to make disparaging remarks about another product to show ours is better, but that is your MO. Why? (Rhetorical question, no answer needed, see below)
I’ve asked three time about you sending the “I have 2 Atlas's that are damn near trashed from recoil and at $275 a pop, it's a big letdown.” bipods to me and have PM’d you with no reply. Nor did you reply to my question of confirmation if you got the PM.
And then I remembered this -
jameslee - 250 words and you didn't answer the man's question. What is that about?
RHunter - "Maybe this wold be a good clue as to the answer to his question???"
My conclusion, there’s more to your story, a story I no longer care about due to your demonstrated dis-ingenuousness.
Regarding the “Atlas” bipods you do own, send or don’t send them, your no different than any of our other customers when it comes to us standing behind our products. You can find the address on line. We'll confirm they are genuine Atlas and if the coated one was assembled correctly. We'll return them as received or correct them, your call.
Last, you have stated several times you’d buy our V-10 when they do become available. Please don’t waste your money. The V-10 will in no way stand up to your level of shooting expertise and abuse do to its pasta noodle based construction.
remington patriot - In my opinion, yes. I Have The three different versions of them and I wouldn't trade them for anything else out there
NoLegs24 - Take a look at the LRA Bipod. Sold both Atlas Bipods to get these bad boys and I am not going back.
RHunter- LRA's are definitely the best. They make an Atlas look like a cheap toy. Atlas's are great for AR's and smaller caliber bolt guns but the recoil of anything 30-06 or bigger destroys them over time. I have 2 Atlas's that are damn near trashed from recoil and at $275 a pop, it's a big letdown.
This is where you, RHunter, show your intentions are not really to help the OP but to show your bias for a product you are a fan of. The OP never stated his application nor do you ask the OP about his application or qualify your reply. And your following posts do nothing but re-enforce your bias for a product not based on application but rather no matter the application.
I never felt like I had to make disparaging remarks about another product to show ours is better, but that is your MO. Why? (Rhetorical question, no answer needed, see below)
I’ve asked three time about you sending the “I have 2 Atlas's that are damn near trashed from recoil and at $275 a pop, it's a big letdown.” bipods to me and have PM’d you with no reply. Nor did you reply to my question of confirmation if you got the PM.
And then I remembered this -
jameslee - 250 words and you didn't answer the man's question. What is that about?
RHunter - "Maybe this wold be a good clue as to the answer to his question???"
My conclusion, there’s more to your story, a story I no longer care about due to your demonstrated dis-ingenuousness.
Regarding the “Atlas” bipods you do own, send or don’t send them, your no different than any of our other customers when it comes to us standing behind our products. You can find the address on line. We'll confirm they are genuine Atlas and if the coated one was assembled correctly. We'll return them as received or correct them, your call.
Last, you have stated several times you’d buy our V-10 when they do become available. Please don’t waste your money. The V-10 will in no way stand up to your level of shooting expertise and abuse do to its pasta noodle based construction.
I have 3 Atlas Bipods and a fourth on order from the PSR special purchase.... Every one has been flawless. Dollar for dollar and for most applications they are the best I've found and the most versatile..... I'm sorry RHUNTER but it seems to me you have an agenda and seem to talk out of both sides of your mouth, IMHO.... Anyway I know my Atlas will always get taken care of if it fails in some way shape or form.... As for Kasey would you please get me my new Atlas already?? Don't make me go RHUNTER on you.... Lol
Right, now I have an agenda... I wear something out, say it no longer works for a particular use... and I have an agenda...
Care to clue me in to what that agenda may be?
I don't want my stuff replaced and said that from the word GO, I don't have any relationship with any other maker.... Please do clue me in.
RHunter - "PM Me your address and I will send the bipods to you so you can have a look at them. I'll pay for the upgrade for the V7."
Later on same thread...
RHunter - "I don't want my stuff replaced and said that from the word GO, I don't have any relationship with any other maker.... Please do clue me in."
Consider yourself clued in.
I'll stick with my conclusion and will repeat it for your convenience - that there’s more to your story, a story I no longer care about due to your demonstrated dis-ingenuousness.
Later on same thread...
RHunter - "I don't want my stuff replaced and said that from the word GO, I don't have any relationship with any other maker.... Please do clue me in."
Consider yourself clued in.
I'll stick with my conclusion and will repeat it for your convenience - that there’s more to your story, a story I no longer care about due to your demonstrated dis-ingenuousness.
RHunter I just saw your PM - sorry but that boat sailed so anything you PM me now will be posted here.
Kasey,
I apologize if you think I am being overly critical of your product and I do appreciate your offer. I can assure you, there is no ulterior motive to my postings and I have no disingenuous motives. My experience is exactly what I shared.
I do find it hard to believe that you have never had any issue with the pan/tilt becoming loose from excessive use. You have improved the ability to torque the pan/tilt nut better with your latest design change so there has to be a reason for that change. Obviously people were struggling with getting it tight enough.
I think implying I said you have a pasta noodle design is a little extreme dont you think? I can understand your position where you don't want to mention anything remotely negative about the product but can you honestly say to me that you have not ever had anyone express concerns with the pan/tilt function of the bipod? Am I honestly the only one? I can understand if one of mine had an issue but the same thing happened to both. It was not an immediate change, it was gradual from use. When I first got both of them, they were fine. There was a span of 3 years between both purchases and in both cases the outcome was identical and took about the same use to cause the same outcome. Both products came sealed in your packaging and they both came from reliable sources so they are not counterfeit.
Please read your prior posts and find the discrepancies I haven't the time nor inclination, but suffice it to say its more bovine scatology. Heres a fact- we don't coat bipods for civilian sales. Yours is coated. Oh I know it was purchased sealed, then opened, then coated assembled or wait was it disassembled? No? Okay was there heat involved? No? so it was rattle canned and that is what you're worried about??? (Rhetorical question, no answer needed )
Last regarding improving our design, it's a simple approach and ongoing based of factual experiences. Improving materials, heat-treatments on and on, but none of that matters because your experience is NOT only yours but because it's your experience you want everyone to hold hands and sing along. Problem is that what ever nugget of useful factual field data might be gleaned from your experience it is lost due to your lack of sincere credibility.
RHunter, I accept you apology and will stand by my offer as a businessman but nothing beyond.
Kasey,
I apologize if you think I am being overly critical of your product and I do appreciate your offer. I can assure you, there is no ulterior motive to my postings and I have no disingenuous motives. My experience is exactly what I shared.
I do find it hard to believe that you have never had any issue with the pan/tilt becoming loose from excessive use. You have improved the ability to torque the pan/tilt nut better with your latest design change so there has to be a reason for that change. Obviously people were struggling with getting it tight enough.
I think implying I said you have a pasta noodle design is a little extreme dont you think? I can understand your position where you don't want to mention anything remotely negative about the product but can you honestly say to me that you have not ever had anyone express concerns with the pan/tilt function of the bipod? Am I honestly the only one? I can understand if one of mine had an issue but the same thing happened to both. It was not an immediate change, it was gradual from use. When I first got both of them, they were fine. There was a span of 3 years between both purchases and in both cases the outcome was identical and took about the same use to cause the same outcome. Both products came sealed in your packaging and they both came from reliable sources so they are not counterfeit.
Please read your prior posts and find the discrepancies I haven't the time nor inclination, but suffice it to say its more bovine scatology. Heres a fact- we don't coat bipods for civilian sales. Yours is coated. Oh I know it was purchased sealed, then opened, then coated assembled or wait was it disassembled? No? Okay was there heat involved? No? so it was rattle canned and that is what you're worried about??? (Rhetorical question, no answer needed )
Last regarding improving our design, it's a simple approach and ongoing based of factual experiences. Improving materials, heat-treatments on and on, but none of that matters because your experience is NOT only yours but because it's your experience you want everyone to hold hands and sing along. Problem is that what ever nugget of useful factual field data might be gleaned from your experience it is lost due to your lack of sincere credibility.
RHunter, I accept you apology and will stand by my offer as a businessman but nothing beyond.
It'll work great for the .308 Win. Try Triad Tactical out. They have them in-stock ready to go.
Nope, worried about parts getting replaced that are not coated. You stated you would not do anything to it and after you said that I was fully willing to send it to you so you could see what excessive wear has done to it only to help you with future improvements. I never wanted any charity from you, I did not have any expectations for you to fix something I wore out. I found a secondary use for it and I was perfectly happy with that. I would think that would equate to NO MOTIVE.
So you are saying you never assembled bipods that ended up in civilian hands with cerakoated parts? From information I recently gleaned, you have.
Nope, just tried to be honest and share my experience with your vastly superior product. And when that did not gel with you, accusations were made as to what I said and implied.
Look, the Atlas is your baby. If it was my design I would probably defend it the same way you have. So I get where you are coming from.
The fact is, I shared my experience with it. I load it properly when I shoot by leaning slightly forward on it, set it square to the rifle when I shoot, keep the tension knob hand tight, I did everything you are supposed to do with it, I have used it/them extensively and it/they worked just fine for awhile, I have put the things through some serious paces and those paces caused wear. Nothing else. You don't like how I expressed my opinion in my first post, that opinion is reserved for the way I wish to express it. Was it a bit over the top? Yeah, probably, I apologized to you but that obviously was not good enough.
You now resort to making accusations, I have tried to clarify things I have said, and now those are inconsistencies in your mind. I have always maintained you had a good product, just not an indestructible one. We see things from two different angles and there is not a thing wrong with that. I am not going to change my opinion about your product because of my experience with it and you are obviously not open to the possibility that they can wear out with a lot of use.
You think I have a motive, well now I think you have one as well. You don't want anything negative being said about the product. Easier to discredit me than it is to say yeah, if you use the shit out of them they will wear out. Curiously though, design improvements on the PSR do seem to be made to cure some of the issues I mentioned.... Why would you change the design of the pan/tilt knob to offer more leverage to tighten it if people were not complaining they couldn't tighten them enough? (Rhetorical question, no answer needed)
When you roll in the mud to wrestle a pig, you get dirty and the pigs situation doesn't really change.
No one is making themselves look good by continuing to post in this thread.
To the OP, my offer stands. If you want to try mine out, get in touch and I'll see what I can do to make it happen.
I'm out!
No one is making themselves look good by continuing to post in this thread.
To the OP, my offer stands. If you want to try mine out, get in touch and I'll see what I can do to make it happen.
I'm out!
That sounds great, 3-4 days a week, on the firing line.
I am truly and deeply impressed. You have a couple of kills a year hunting, but you do a lot of shooting at the range. Let's work out how much. If you mean two when you say "a Couple" and both are one shot kills then if you shot 99% of your shots at the range then you would be shooting 200 rounds per year at the range. What does 99.9999% work out to?
99% equates to 200 rounds per year at the range.
99.9% equates to 2,000 rounds per year at the range.
99.99% equates to 20,000 rounds per year at the range.
99.999% equates to 200,000 rounds per year at the range.
99.9999% equates to 2,000,000 rounds per year at the range.
That Sir, is a lot of shooting. Now too be fair you do spend a lot of time at the range averaging 3.5 days per week, that works out to 182 days per year at the range. You do not say how many hours per day you actually shoot while you are at the range, so I will just take the liberty of assuming you shoot 8 hours each time you go to the range. (I am starting to wonder if you hand load to keep the cost of those 2,000,000 rounds down, at today's prices most of us would need a sponsor.) So 182 days per year times 8 hours per day is 1456 range hours per year. Now we know you shoot off 2,000,000 rounds per year, so 2,000,000 divided by 1456 range hours per year Equals 1,374 rounds per hour.
Now my hat is really off to you. 1,374 rounds per hour for 1456 range hours per year.
Do you use like a Dillon Minigun or do you mostly shoot a mix of bolt and semiauto guns like the rest of us? Do you have acolytes at the range (who load mags for you) or do you load all of your mags at home the night before? 8 hours times 1,374 rounds per hour equals 10,989 rounds per day. If your average barrel last you 3,000 rounds you are shooting out better than 3 barrels per day. So it would seem that you must take 3 or 4 rifles to the range and then shoot out the barrels then what? Drop them off at the local gunsmith for a re-barrel and pick up the three or four guns you dropped off after your previous session.
Unless you are surrounded by helpers this is starting to sound like a really long day. I often shoot 20 to 40 rounds and consider that a nice relaxing day shooting. But you sir must set a truly frentic pace. 1,374 rounds per hour, do you shoot steel or paper? It must be steel, I do not see how you would have time to go down range to replace paper and maintain your pace. I wonder, if you have to take a piss how do you make up the lost time?
I guess some of us would really appreciate if you could share some of your secrets for getting this amount of ammo and keeping it affordable.
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^^^^^^^^^says it all^^^^^^
LOL I just cant resist.... Two for the price of one!
According to YOUR math diverdon... If 99% of a number is equal to 200.... then in REAL MATH 99.9999% of this *unknown number* would be.. 201.9998 (rounded to 4 decimal points)
If you are going to mock me, you may not want to make yourself look like a complete dumb fuck in the process.
[MENTION=89080]LOCOBEAR[/MENTION] dude can you blame me? I tried. LOL
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I must say, reading this has been entertaining.
To the OP, are they the best? A few days ago, I think I would have said get one and don’t look back. However today I think I would have to say, “Get one and don’t look back”. This statement is based on my use of them only. I have 4 atlas and about 10 Harris bipods. I like both brands and basically just buy what the rifle needs. I only have four rifles with rails on them, so that is the reason for my number of atlas bipods. Before reading this thread, I never thought to blame my shooting on the bipod. This is because I am the one that pulled the trigger and if I thought things were not just right, maybe I needed to pass on that shot until things were correct.
Rhunter; (by the way, I’m jealous of the amount of time you get to spend behind your rifles) how long did it take before you thought the Atlas not fit for one rifle and you moved it to another? I’m going to guess for now, as I need a number to work with. I’m going to use 3 years, just because I for some reason thought that was about the amount of time between models ( V7-V8). Let us say (based on a prior post of yours) you average 1000 rounds a month, times 3 years comes to 36,000 rounds. Now I can't think all of this would be shot with just 2 rifles, so lets cut that number in half. 18,000 rounds on 2 bipods with an investment of $550. If this is the case and you are in them $550, that comes to ~3 cents per shot if they were of no use to you now, but you are still using them, so that number is ever changing. If I got to shoot that much, I would be ok with that. I also don’t understand how this got so far out in left field; you were only stating what you thought. Only thing that jumped out at me was your statement that at 275 a pop, it was a letdown. Even if that 18,000 number is off, this should not warrant a letdown, given the other costs and time that goes into shooting this much. Terry Cross told me one time that "if you are going to drive a Corvette, you will have to put tires on it once in awhile".
Kasey; first of all, great product! I shoot a little myself and until reading this, I didn’t even know LRA was out there. Never felt the need to look for anything other than the Atlas. From the sound of the LRA and the price point, I’m not convinced this is an apples to apples comparison.
Kasey, I’m sorry to say I may never wear one of your bipods out, as my wife and I average only ~4000 rounds a year and with the 4 of them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well you can do the math.
To the OP, are they the best? A few days ago, I think I would have said get one and don’t look back. However today I think I would have to say, “Get one and don’t look back”. This statement is based on my use of them only. I have 4 atlas and about 10 Harris bipods. I like both brands and basically just buy what the rifle needs. I only have four rifles with rails on them, so that is the reason for my number of atlas bipods. Before reading this thread, I never thought to blame my shooting on the bipod. This is because I am the one that pulled the trigger and if I thought things were not just right, maybe I needed to pass on that shot until things were correct.
Rhunter; (by the way, I’m jealous of the amount of time you get to spend behind your rifles) how long did it take before you thought the Atlas not fit for one rifle and you moved it to another? I’m going to guess for now, as I need a number to work with. I’m going to use 3 years, just because I for some reason thought that was about the amount of time between models ( V7-V8). Let us say (based on a prior post of yours) you average 1000 rounds a month, times 3 years comes to 36,000 rounds. Now I can't think all of this would be shot with just 2 rifles, so lets cut that number in half. 18,000 rounds on 2 bipods with an investment of $550. If this is the case and you are in them $550, that comes to ~3 cents per shot if they were of no use to you now, but you are still using them, so that number is ever changing. If I got to shoot that much, I would be ok with that. I also don’t understand how this got so far out in left field; you were only stating what you thought. Only thing that jumped out at me was your statement that at 275 a pop, it was a letdown. Even if that 18,000 number is off, this should not warrant a letdown, given the other costs and time that goes into shooting this much. Terry Cross told me one time that "if you are going to drive a Corvette, you will have to put tires on it once in awhile".
Kasey; first of all, great product! I shoot a little myself and until reading this, I didn’t even know LRA was out there. Never felt the need to look for anything other than the Atlas. From the sound of the LRA and the price point, I’m not convinced this is an apples to apples comparison.
Kasey, I’m sorry to say I may never wear one of your bipods out, as my wife and I average only ~4000 rounds a year and with the 4 of them,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well you can do the math.
here are my poorly collated thoughts on the matter:
If you're loading a bipod "correctly" looseness isn't a problem. I consider a "looser" bipod better than a very stiff one, as loading it takes up the looseness for the shot then allows control through the recoil as there is the ability of the rifle to move rearward without the bipod feet moving, i.e. the infamous harris hop. A loose bipod also makes it more difficult for unwanted cross-tension between the legs to build up, throwing the shot, and makes it faster to adjust to a different target. The Atlas has some movement in the legs and the panning ability which is good for these things.
I really prefer the Versapod/Parker Hale/AI etc style of bipod overall for shooting performance, but they're bigger, heavier, and have obscure and inconvenient mounting methods unless you own an AI or a Blaser R93/R8 or presumably some other few rifles that allow easy direct mounting without the awful "handstop" lump.
The leg extensions of the Atlas are a very clever touch that I like as is the QD ability. The quality is fine and mine has survived a lot of hunting, a couple of competitions and a lot of range shooting - mostly just on mid-sized cartridges though (6.5x47 and similar). The legs are a little slow to deploy/fold with the locking mechanism but neither can they collapse accidentally. They can be a little difficult to adjust in height from behind the rifle also. The pan/cant could have a greater range of movement. It's very lightweight (~ 10% lighter than the short Harris) which is nice for those that shoot off a flat range. The price is relatively high compared to a Harris but it's a far better product and you get a lot more for it. I only use a Harris on my AR15 still as there is no direct-mount QD Atlas mount for a keymod handguard and no reasonable way to keymod mount a PH/AI/Versapod style, I would not/do not use a Harris for anything else.
So far, there is no perfect bipod in my opinion but the Atlas is what I choose to use at the moment.
If you're loading a bipod "correctly" looseness isn't a problem. I consider a "looser" bipod better than a very stiff one, as loading it takes up the looseness for the shot then allows control through the recoil as there is the ability of the rifle to move rearward without the bipod feet moving, i.e. the infamous harris hop. A loose bipod also makes it more difficult for unwanted cross-tension between the legs to build up, throwing the shot, and makes it faster to adjust to a different target. The Atlas has some movement in the legs and the panning ability which is good for these things.
I really prefer the Versapod/Parker Hale/AI etc style of bipod overall for shooting performance, but they're bigger, heavier, and have obscure and inconvenient mounting methods unless you own an AI or a Blaser R93/R8 or presumably some other few rifles that allow easy direct mounting without the awful "handstop" lump.
The leg extensions of the Atlas are a very clever touch that I like as is the QD ability. The quality is fine and mine has survived a lot of hunting, a couple of competitions and a lot of range shooting - mostly just on mid-sized cartridges though (6.5x47 and similar). The legs are a little slow to deploy/fold with the locking mechanism but neither can they collapse accidentally. They can be a little difficult to adjust in height from behind the rifle also. The pan/cant could have a greater range of movement. It's very lightweight (~ 10% lighter than the short Harris) which is nice for those that shoot off a flat range. The price is relatively high compared to a Harris but it's a far better product and you get a lot more for it. I only use a Harris on my AR15 still as there is no direct-mount QD Atlas mount for a keymod handguard and no reasonable way to keymod mount a PH/AI/Versapod style, I would not/do not use a Harris for anything else.
So far, there is no perfect bipod in my opinion but the Atlas is what I choose to use at the moment.
I can see your point, I guess I just look at it like this, I don't need to replace my trigger after xxx rounds or replace my bolt after xxx rounds... It is pretty limited to barrels and maybe the occasional spring that breaks from fatigue.
A buddy of mine has a versa pod, the non panning model with a quick mount that I am sure mounts to any 1913 style rail (I think he said it was a 300 series) and he has put thousands of rounds down range using it and he absolutely loves it, he tried to convince me to buy one. I have not owned one but the design seems solid enough. I preferred the LRA over his because they are almost the same price and it was a 'go with what you know" deal when I was faced with spending $400 for another bipod for a new build. But versa pod does have a really nice quick disconnect with a large, comfortable throw lever, you might want to check them out.
Some people like the pan function, some don't. For me a well placed follow-up shot is not a factor of speed so I don't particularly care for it. I prefer good horizontal stability because of the effects it has on my shot placement.
I think the next few times I go to the range I am going to do a little survey with some of the hardcore shooters and get some opinions on what they prefer to use and why and see what the overall preference is for a mix of shooting styles. I may even type a little survey up so they can write their opinions down just in case I get accused of being disingenuous.
LRA is the OEM bipod Ashbury Precision Ordinance sells with their rifles, I believe Surgeon and a couple others are starting to use them as well.
http://store.ashburyprecisionordnance.com/ShoppingCart.aspx?com=detailview&iid=544&diid=551&depiid=0&#Detail
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