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Movie Theater Atlas Shrugged

W54/XM-388

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  • Oct 1, 2005
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    I've been looking forward to this movie for a long time & it finally comes out on April 15th.

    From the previews and clips that are out, it seems that they captured the look and feel of the book quite well.

    I'm hoping that since they are splitting the movie up into 3 parts (I think, it could however just be 2), they will be able to fit most everything in and do a good job of it.

    Atlas Shrugged Part 1 Official Site
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I hope not.
    The book actually changed the way that a buddy of mine thinks. He was pretty liberal, but not much more conservative.
    It just reenforced my point of view.
    Keeping my fingers crossed.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I'll probably get banned for this or something, but what the hell . . .

    The rebirth of Ayn Rand as a popular literary talent is a tragedy upon the collective (in a Jungian not Marxist sense) American psyche.

    History time -
    Examination of Game Theory, to understand the human decision-making processes, began in the late 1930's and 1940's with two books, Applications aux Jeux de Hasard, and Theory of Games and Economic Behavior. The basic theory is that if everyone acted in their own best interests, a more perfect equilibrium could be achieved, and all would be served, according to his or her ability. (Marx just went the other way, in giving to each according to need.)
    In the 1950's, Game Theory reached a pinnacle when, between 1950 and 1954, John Nash leveraged the theories to develop a mathematical model for predicting the behavior of the Soviets in response to various US actions.
    In 1957 Rand published Atlas Shrugged, bringing a theatrical explanation of game theory to the general population. It did not reach any type of mainstream popularity, either in the Hobbesian conservative 1950's, or the roaring counter-culture of the 1960's.
    In the 1970's, nobody remembers too much except that the economy was dreadful, and the drugs were pretty good; oh yeah, and the Vietnam war ended.
    In the 1980's, a group of former liberals, turned conservative, formed the core right-wing group within the Reagan administration. They were called Team-B, and offered more conservative interpretations to the President than any of the analysis coming out of the established Federal bureaucracy. Most, tracing their intellectual lineage back to Leo Strauss, believed that, in order for society to advance, a small vanguard of elites were needed to lead the masses out of stagnation. (Similar to Lenin and Mao.) Furthermore, counted amongst their beliefs is the idea that between the elite vanguard and the stagnated masses, "two truths" would be acceptable. Meaning the masses don't need to actually understand why something is occurring, and they may not be capable of it, so it's okay to make something up to get them to follow the vanguard, so long as the result is beneficial to the masses. The ends justify the means. It was their ideas and influence which pushed Reagan into the policies which ended the cold war.
    In the 1990's, these individuals re-formed in an unofficial capacity to oppose the liberal policies of the Clinton Administration. They convinced Clinton to adopt policies which infuriated the core of the Democratic party, yet grew the economy at a very respectable pace. They called themselves Neoconservatives.
    After 2000, they were brought back into government service under the Bush administration. They led the political charge into Iraq after September 11th. They also pushed for significant privatization of government work, including the extensive use of contractors in theaters of war. The results of these efforts have yet to be judged by history as successes or failures. Though, some would argue that both policies could be judged failures, as they contributed to no foreign policy gain which can be measured today, and deregulation facilitated the collapse of the financial markets at the end of the Bush Presidency.
    In the 2010's, they are organizing and financing the Tea Party movement. They are now working with News Corp. to drive Atlas Shrugged into mainstream reading, as they find it represents not only their base-line economic philosophy, but also provides a strong motivating object for for a decentralized political movement, such as the Tea Party.

    This is about as objective (pun intended) as I can be in reviewing the facts leading up to Ayn Rand's new-found popularity.

    Un-objectively, the philosophy of Ayn Rand, Ojectivism was an extension of John Nash's approach to game theory. Nash, it may be noted, was a paranoid schizophrenic.
    The philosophy of Objectivism, which is described in Atlas Shrugged, precludes the existence of altruistic behavior. This irks me, as I have sacrificed a great deal for others, and I've asked for nothing in return. Would anyone care to explain the non-existence of altruism to this man's family?
    http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=32528
    Secondly, when someone believes themselves be elite amongst a greater community, to the extent that they believe it acceptable to lie . . . well, I just don't trust that.

    The movie may be entertaining, but I would hope people would be careful to examine the belief system described in Atlas Shrugged, prior to adopting it as a defining characteristic in their own life.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged


    hopefully it will do the book justice. im not a randian, but her philosophy in regards to capitalism is great.

    i've been hearing radio interviews with the producer for the past week or two and it sounds promising.

    im with yall...*fingers crossed
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Well written Utnapishtim I am not as elequoent a writer as you.

    So you will have to excuse me, but after reading a few of Rand's works I would have to agree with you.

    However in life I have found that men philosiphies are developed by taking a portion of the ideas, of those that have come before them and adopting what works for us as individuals. The hope, I guess is that we take those things and refine them to be passed on and improve the lives of future generations (would that be considered altruistic). Which makes me think there may be something good to be found in all work including Rand's.

    I can never buy into the fact that our free will sould be sacrificed for any apparent gain!
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I've heard good things about this movie and how it was written/produced. Hopefully, it will not disappoint. I'll be off shooting for the opening, but should be able to catch it next week sometime. I'm not a diehard Randian, but her books seriously influenced me when I was young and looking for direction.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I never understood why a book that promotes selfishness and a class level elitism as policy is so lauded by the faux populists of America?
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Just got back from buying a bunch of tickets for opening day.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never understood why a book that promotes selfishness and a class level elitism as policy is so lauded by the faux populists of America? </div></div>

    The main theme of the book(fictional exposition of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, property/individual rights being squashed by regulations/central government) made more sense during Cold War when there was fear that Soviet Union would crush the West.

    It has less of an impact today with all the formerly and currently Communist countries moving toward free market.

    Also, our current understanding of free market TODAY is much less cut and dry, compared to days of Ayn Rand.

    We have examples of Singapore Model, a very successful, dynamic market driven economy merged with very successful yet heavy government involvement.

    We have example of Switzerland/Germany/Japan with universal coverage for health care, yet on average, giving very high return for money spent on health care compared to countries like US.

    In its day(1950s), "Atlas Shrugged" was apparently going against the tide.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I watched the movie last night & I loved it. I think they did a very good job of staying as close to the book as possible while slightly updating it to have a modern near future feel.

    There was a nicely done montage at the beginning of the movie setting the stage for how we arrived at that point from where the country is now.

    It's one of those movies that you'll either love and think it's great and you could see how it could so easily happen, or you'll think it's a boring waste of time.

    The acting was well cast in my opinion, the actors were well picked to suit their place in the story and did a good job of making the movie about the story and not about the actors.

    I think they did an excelent job of filming the movie without an overblown budget for special effects & as a result the movie has a more realistic feel to it.

    Some of the story line was a bit compressed and things referenced in passing that would have been nice to play out, but that would have made it into a 30 hour miniseries instead of a 3 part movie.

    Perhaps the only downside is that if you have never read the book, it may be a bit hard to figure out exactly what everyone is doing and where everyone is coming from. As some of the detailed storywork to set up the characters got skipped a bit.

    I would suspect newcomers might have to watch the movie, go back and read the book, then watch the movie again to fully appreciate it. But this may not be a problem as I think the movie was geared a bit more towards the faithful.

    The only problem with the movie is that it ends. And now the waiting game for parts 2 and 3 starts.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Since there is so much wait time to complete the trilogy

    I might as well read the book again...
    smile.gif
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I thoroughly enjoyed it. I could see our congress critters enacting laws that would limit a person from having control of multiple corporations if it would help them or their cronies.

    The actress that played Dagny did an excellent job.

    Time to read the book while waiting for the additional movies.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never understood why a book that promotes selfishness and a class level elitism as policy is so lauded by the faux populists of America? </div></div>

    Never read the book, but I do squander just over half my working life on a bankrupt tradezone.

    I did watch the movie tonight and there were a few things I never expected. 80% of the viewers were over 40 years old. At least 30% were over 60. And at the end of the final line the whole theater burst out clapping.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: theinvisibleheart</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

    The main theme of the book(fictional exposition of Ayn Rand's Objectivism, property/individual rights being squashed by regulations/central government) made more sense during Cold War when there was fear that Soviet Union would crush the West.</div></div>


    i gotta disagree on that one. the book never made more sense than today. the US government has never ceased its push for central planning, nationalization, fascist and socialist controls over the economy. every day congress and the US government churn out thousands of pages of new regulations and taxes.

    but you are generally right about other parts of the world, like china moving toward a free market and away from socialism.

    this aside.. the movie was great. i was really impressed. i went into i thinking it was going to be horrible acting, horrible quality, but i was honestly impressed.
    the movie theater crowd was just as described, mostly older folks, and everyone burst out clapping at the end.

    cant wait for 2 and 3 to come out.
    everyone should see it if they want to understand capitalism and the effects of governments suppressing it.


     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Of course the "professionals" hate it. No one in Hollywood wanted to be associated with a film that essentially tears up unions and socialist/communist types.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Saw it tonight and enjoyed it.
    Will buy the DVD when it comes out....and will see parts 2 and 3 when/if they become available.

    For me it's a fine thing to see this made into a movie.
    I had my doubts that it would ever happen.

    I want a poster, and some of those dollar-sign cigarettes!
    laugh.gif


    I was also surprised at the average age of the audience.
    I am 46 years old, and was below the average age.
    There was a lot of Blue in that theater....and lots of potty breaks.
    laugh.gif
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tigerbikes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently the "professionals" hated it, while the audience liked it:

    <span style="font-weight: bold">Rotten Tomatoes</span>

    </div></div>

    Nobody ever said pro-critics were objective.

    Pretty telling disparity there: 9% to 83% easily the biggest I've seen in years of following RT.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Utnapishtim,

    Well I know that some subjects are taboo but this is just a movie discussion right?

    I find it entertaining that the very people you describe as displaying non-altruistic behavior or Neoconservatives are actually god and country loving people who are more generous than the people you espouse as I don't know, the generous, utopian society?

    It seams you believe people are more generous when they can tax others and give away others money but hoard their own because they place themselves above the masses. Memo, thats not altruism, thats buying power. Altruism is deciding to give you resources freely to those who have needs that you can supply. Lots of Neoconservatives and Tea partiers do that at church and shelters everyday.

    How many elitest political science professors do you think do that? More likely they endorse the "take from the evil corporations and give it to the poor" philosophy that would end with no one having resources to help the poor any longer due to overspending and huge tax burdens. The fact that "This is about as objective (pun intended) as I can be" shows your philosophy.

    I understand it is "pun intended" but this rant of yours really reads as nothing but disdain for conservatives and tea partiers that believe the course of huge spending deficits followed buy huge tax increases (coming soon), is the not the best course for our country.

    I for one believe that Atlas Shrugged actually promotes a way for a free country to survive and not turn into a socialistic "everyone works at a unionized government job that suits their abilities and no one has anything except the dear leader" kind of country.

    I think its a great movie that everyone should see, think about afterword and come to their own conclusions.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsky23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Utnapishtim,

    Well I know that some subjects are taboo but this is just a movie discussion right?

    I find it entertaining that the very people you describe as displaying non-altruistic behavior or Neoconservatives are actually god and country loving people who are more generous than the people you espouse as I don't know, the generous, utopian society?

    It seams you believe people are more generous when they can tax others and give away others money but hoard their own because they place themselves above the masses. Memo, thats not altruism, thats buying power. Altruism is deciding to give you resources freely to those who have needs that you can supply. Lots of Neoconservatives and Tea partiers do that at church and shelters everyday.

    How many elitest political science professors do you think do that? More likely they endorse the "take from the evil corporations and give it to the poor" philosophy that would end with no one having resources to help the poor any longer due to overspending and huge tax burdens. The fact that "This is about as objective (pun intended) as I can be" shows your philosophy.

    I understand it is "pun intended" but this rant of yours really reads as nothing but disdain for conservatives and tea partiers that believe the course of huge spending deficits followed buy huge tax increases (coming soon), is the not the best course for our country.

    I for one believe that Atlas Shrugged actually promotes a way for a free country to survive and not turn into a socialistic "everyone works at a unionized government job that suits their abilities and no one has anything except the dear leader" kind of country.

    I think its a great movie that everyone should see, think about afterword and come to their own conclusions. </div></div>

    +1 from me too. It would seem that some of these mischaracterizations are based on misunderstandings about the philosophy of Objectivism. Objectivists, which is what the Rand philosophy believers are correctly referred to as, seek to live according to their own moral concretes and work to achieve the success of endeavors born of rational thought... goals of our own, by ourselves, without outside interference or dictation - there is no "collective". Objectivists are individualistic.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bigsky23</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Utnapishtim,



    I find it entertaining that the very people you describe as displaying non-altruistic behavior or Neoconservatives are actually god and country loving people who are more generous than the people you espouse as I don't know, the generous, utopian society?

    It seams you believe people are more generous when they can tax others and give away others money but hoard their own because they place themselves above the masses. Memo, thats not altruism, thats buying power. Altruism is deciding to give you resources freely to those who have needs that you can supply. Lots of Neoconservatives and Tea partiers do that at church and shelters everyday.
    </div></div>

    Who it the "you" that you are referring to???
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dogtown</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I never understood why a book that promotes selfishness and a class level elitism as policy is so lauded by the faux populists of America?</div></div>

    Because we are all the heros of our own autobiographies. No one reads the Fountainhead and identifies with Peter Keating.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tigerbikes</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Apparently the "professionals" hated it, while the audience liked it:

    <span style="font-weight: bold">Rotten Tomatoes</span>

    </div></div>

    Nobody ever said pro-critics were objective.

    Pretty telling disparity there: 9% to 83% easily the biggest I've seen in years of following RT.</div></div>

    Are you implying that you think audiences are objective? Audiences also consistently turn out to Michael Bay movies.

    Professional critics and movie buffs rate a movie based on the craftsmanship behind making it. Being a fan or sympathetic ideologue of the original work's author plays very little into a professional critic's evaluation of filmography, directing, set design, editing, musical score, or individual acting performances of the cast.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I saw the movie tonight, while it hits on the main themes of the book I didn't think it adequately expressed her ideas. I was pleased that it was made and I am looking forward to the follow ups.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I don't see our current situation as an opportunity to delve and decode the manner in which we came to this point.

    I see it more as an opportunity to say we don't care how we got here, but we sure and heck don't intend to continue on this road to Hell.

    It starts when the first guy stands up and says "NO!".

    NO!
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Just finished the book on deployment. Wish I would have read it at 30 instead of 52. Its wordy and redundant but spot the F on. Any word on general release or DVD? My boys over here would love it. Dagny Taggert hoo-ah. CJ
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    I tried to watch it tonight but decided about 15 minutes in it wasn't worth another hour and a half of my life. It's so horrible it left me wondering if the producers set out with the goal of discrediting the novel (and, by association, its principles). The dialogue would have made Ed Wood proud and the acting reminded me of those 8mm hygiene movies they showed us when I was in Junior High. The characters' delivery is so stiff, they sound like they're auditioning for roles in the remake of The Coneheads.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This movie was awful. And I hate people. So if I can't get behind a movie that stresses how much everyone sucks, there is a problem.

    </div></div>

    Well now I have to watch the movie, just to see how bad it really is!
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've been looking forward to this movie for a long time & it finally comes out on April 15th.

    From the previews and clips that are out, it seems that they captured the look and feel of the book quite well.

    I'm hoping that since they are splitting the movie up into 3 parts (I think, it could however just be 2), they will be able to fit most everything in and do a good job of it.

    Atlas Shrugged Part 1 Official Site </div></div>

    Just saw the movie via RedBox kiosk.

    I thought the movie was well done but it idealizes free market, as well as corporate executives.

    In the movie, for example, CEOs are business/engineering SUPERMAN/WOMEN/etc. and the only thing holding them back is government and regulations and labor.

    In reality, once a firm is an established industry player, they spend large amount of money on political lobbying to protect their turf/market niche and to limit market competition.

    <span style="font-weight: bold">If you check pharmaceutical or financial services companies or for profit universities(e.g., Apollo Group), they spent record amount of money on lobbying(they hedge their bet by giving money to both GOP and DNC).</span>

    <span style="font-weight: bold">In real life, once a firm reaches certain level, level of innovation tends to drop off and quite often, they would buy out other companies.</span>

    Also, the data(research regarding executive compensation in corporate finance) is very clear that quite often, CEO compensation bears very little resemblance to how much value that they brought to the company. If you check, CEO are quite often compensated very handsomely even when they brought down the value of the company substantially, making shareholders much, much poorer as a result.

    I thought movies like "Flash of Genuis" or "Wall Street"(1987 version) was more realistic.

    <span style="font-weight: bold">In real life, if a firm created a proprietary technology (e.g., special metal like "Rearden metal") and patented it, the odds are that other companies will create a functionally equivalent product that does the same thing but is different enough not to infringe on the patent.</span> You can easily see this done in medical market all the time.

    The other thing is that industry quite often engages in research to support and promote industry product.

    The only problem with this kind of research is that quite often, it's advertising masquerading as genuine research,taking advantage of relatively uninformed consumers.

    <span style="font-weight: bold">Market function best when both consumers and producers are well informed and switching cost b/w different producers are low(easy to change) and there are adequate number of choices.</span>



     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Part of these issues were raised to Ayn Rand while she lived and her response was that the main part of the problem is that as banks / corporations get bigger the government being corrupt and easily bribed provides corporate welfare for the big corporations and gives them favours, hand outs and lets them get away with all kinds of things. Essentially the government takes your tax dollars which they shouldn't have nearly as much of and uses it to help those that oppress you.


    Take for example the huge wave of forclosures and kicking people out of their homes (true some were the result of buying what they couldn't afford but way more were people that got conned into rotten ARMs and the rate on their mortages was going up and up even as the rate the government was lending to the same banks was practically going negative).

    If the government had stuck to what they should do and say you make a mess and it all comes crashing down well tough luck, next time others will watch and learn, then market forces would have intervened & banks and mortgage giants would have been scrambling to keep people in their houses even if they had to pay less so the money would keep coming in and they wouldn't go bankrupt from too many loans. As in a true capitalist society, the government would not provide help because you were too greedy and destroyed your own bank with greed & you would be forced to work with people to keep your bank afloat.

    Instead the government bailed out AIG and all the banks so they could foreclose on people's homes, then go claim insurance on the loans as a loss and get paid for it by AIG or another bank (with your tax money), so they got to get paid by your tax dollars to kick you out of your home and get to have your home + your tax dollars + a huge bonus.

    Also the tax code pretty much rewards grabbing all you can while you can, rather than trying to build something strong and lasting over a couple generations.

    In addition, it could also be argued that Ayn Rand did perhaps have way to high of an opinion of Humanity & while a few would quite possibly try to live up to her ideals, way too many would prefer to get rich however they can, at any cost & as long as they got their mega millions, who cares how or what happened.

    This however is not unique to her, pretty much every religion or political system always had high ideals of great nobility and how wonderful Man could become & all were horribly corrupted by people down the line.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Does anyone know why this was never widely released in theaters? It looks like it was only released in a few hundred theaters vs a couple thousand like a more mainstream film.

    I watched this yesterday and have to say I'm a bit like WTF? I'm hoping they make the part 2 so I'm not left hanging.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iamironman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know why this was never widely released in theaters? It looks like it was only released in a few hundred theaters vs a couple thousand like a more mainstream film.

    I watched this yesterday and have to say I'm a bit like WTF? I'm hoping they make the part 2 so I'm not left hanging. </div></div>

    because it was considered a flop in terms of ticket sales...didn't even make top 10.

    Movies exist to make MONEY.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: theinvisibleheart</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iamironman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know why this was never widely released in theaters? It looks like it was only released in a few hundred theaters vs a couple thousand like a more mainstream film.

    I watched this yesterday and have to say I'm a bit like WTF? I'm hoping they make the part 2 so I'm not left hanging. </div></div>

    because it was considered a flop in terms of ticket sales...didn't even make top 10.

    Movies exist to make MONEY. </div></div>

    But that's my point, usually a movie will open in a few k theaters, this one never did. It was almost a strait to video release.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    There was limited release in several hundred theaters but it didn't do well so it didn't gain enough traction for widespread release.

    BTW, this is not anti-free market, liberal media conspiracy...this is normal.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iamironman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: theinvisibleheart</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Iamironman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know why this was never widely released in theaters? It looks like it was only released in a few hundred theaters vs a couple thousand like a more mainstream film.

    I watched this yesterday and have to say I'm a bit like WTF? I'm hoping they make the part 2 so I'm not left hanging. </div></div>

    because it was considered a flop in terms of ticket sales...didn't even make top 10.

    Movies exist to make MONEY. </div></div>

    But that's my point, usually a movie will open in a few k theaters, this one never did. It was almost a strait to video release. </div></div>
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    check "Blade Runner," both the movie and the book rocked.

    It really depends on the content and presentation.

    There are cases where book wasn't good and movie was good, and vice versa.

    The movie was released with political intent. Nothing wrong with that, but to do well, it has to have value as perceived by the general public, not producer, not writer, not ideologues.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cpt. obvious</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I thought the book was much better, but isnt it always?

    Who is John Galt? </div></div>
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    Movies are first critiqued by a critic, for then a General Manager/Owner of a theater will read/watch previews of critiqued movie so that he/she may critique it as well as other regional/continental critics do for their regions or countries. Movies are usually fully made before any preview hits the public. Decisions are made to put movies out or b rate them and kick them thru before you and I ever get a chance to put an opinion in.
     
    Re: Atlas Shrugged

    The problem with the movie was that much of it was common sense(serving one's self-interest, what 99% of folks do naturally) and much of it was unrealistic(government/regulation/tax screwing those who create things and folks who create things not being rewarded).

    <span style="font-weight: bold">Folks who created seminal technology like "Rearden Metal" in the book/movie back in 1960s in US or today, do get richly rewarded</span> unless something like what happened to Richard Kearns in the movie "Flash of Genius" happens(based on real life story...Big 3@Detroit basically stole his invention).

    You can read it here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kearns

    <span style="font-weight: bold">Folks who create something that is in demand at prices demanded by the market do get richly rewarded in US today but also in countries with relatively high tax/regulation/social welfare policies like Germany and Japan.</span>

    But the other side of the coin is that <span style="font-weight: bold">corporate executives don't exist to create something like the hero/heroine in the movie. They exist to SERVE THEIR SELF INTEREST. Sometimes, the self interest of executives and the firm and the stockholders are aligned.</span>

    But quite often, they are not.

    <span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">It all depends on how incentives and cost and benefit are structured, not nobility of characte</span>r.
    </span>
    Executives focuses on short term goals and performances if their compensation packages reward them richly for short term performance. If they can get away with it, they will also waste company's resources and assets for their own use. It's human nature.

    During time of early Founding(creation of US), when early Congress decided to honor government IOU/notes, government IOU/notes were being traded for fraction of their face value because common folks were not sure if they would be honored by then seminal US government or not.

    When government representatives decided to honor the government IOU/notes, they sent agents all across the countryside to buy the IOU/notes for fraction of their face value, taking advantage of their position(access to early information). They then sold/redeemed it back for full value with the newly founded US government, realizing quick profit of several hundred percent.

    Folks in emerging market who are used to operating in bribery/corruption rich environment will usually do away with bribery/corruption when they immigrate to Scandinavian countries because over there, they gain more w/o engaging in bribery/corruption.

    <span style="font-weight: bold">But the other aspect of the coin that the movie missed is that an ideal market for companies goes against the best interest of consumers. Ideal market for companies would be like hospital(CAPTIVE MARKET, little or no choice, poorly informed consumer) where an aspirin pill can cost several dollars or more.

    OTOH, ideal market for consumers would be the EXACT OPPOSITE. Well educated onsumers armed with accurate and relevant expertise in a market filled with multitude of choices in an environment with VERY LOW switching cost approaching zero.</span>

    The movie would have probably done better if it came out during heyday of Communism (1960s).

    FWIW, I'm familiar with Ayn Rand's philosophy (Objectivism), as well as her books and her bio.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: W54/XM-388</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Part of these issues were raised to Ayn Rand while she lived and her response was that the main part of the problem is that as banks / corporations get bigger the government being corrupt and easily bribed provides corporate welfare for the big corporations and gives them favours, hand outs and lets them get away with all kinds of things. Essentially the government takes your tax dollars which they shouldn't have nearly as much of and uses it to help those that oppress you.


    Take for example the huge wave of forclosures and kicking people out of their homes (true some were the result of buying what they couldn't afford but way more were people that got conned into rotten ARMs and the rate on their mortages was going up and up even as the rate the government was lending to the same banks was practically going negative).

    If the government had stuck to what they should do and say you make a mess and it all comes crashing down well tough luck, next time others will watch and learn, then market forces would have intervened & banks and mortgage giants would have been scrambling to keep people in their houses even if they had to pay less so the money would keep coming in and they wouldn't go bankrupt from too many loans. As in a true capitalist society, the government would not provide help because you were too greedy and destroyed your own bank with greed & you would be forced to work with people to keep your bank afloat.

    Instead the government bailed out AIG and all the banks so they could foreclose on people's homes, then go claim insurance on the loans as a loss and get paid for it by AIG or another bank (with your tax money), so they got to get paid by your tax dollars to kick you out of your home and get to have your home + your tax dollars + a huge bonus.

    Also the tax code pretty much rewards grabbing all you can while you can, rather than trying to build something strong and lasting over a couple generations.

    In addition, it could also be argued that Ayn Rand did perhaps have way to high of an opinion of Humanity & while a few would quite possibly try to live up to her ideals, way too many would prefer to get rich however they can, at any cost & as long as they got their mega millions, who cares how or what happened.

    This however is not unique to her, pretty much every religion or political system always had high ideals of great nobility and how wonderful Man could become & all were horribly corrupted by people down the line. </div></div>