Automated High Speed Case Trimmer Poll

[huntersedge89]

Hi, I am currently working on a senior design capstone project. Our team has decided to design a automated high speed case trimmer and annealer for reloaders.

As part of the project we need to conduct a market survey. I thought that this would probably be one of the best places to get as many responses as possible from our target market. Which is high volume competitive shooters, who reload.

Here is a little information about the current design:

-Automatically trims and anneals rifle cases in one platform.
-Trims and chamfers cases to length in one step
-Bench size machine
-Fully adjustable for all cartridges and calibers (comes set up for 308 Winchester and 223 Remington)
-Automatic case feeder is an ad on feature, standard model feeds from a tube mounted to the machine.
-Cases automatically feed and ejected from machine.
-Switching calibers is quick and simple
-Trims and anneals cases 1 per every 6-8 seconds
-Trimmer and annealer can be run independently of each other or together
-Adjustable output speed

What we would like to know from you guys is how much would you be willing to spend on a machine that preforms the above functions.

This price is with the annealer included, but does not include the powered case feeder (includes a tube feeder).

 

[Sportin Wood]

Obviously everyone wants to spend as little as possible. Have you guys sent any out for reviews from the field yet?

 

[ChrisGarrett]

A good annealing machine will cost you $500 with multiple cartridge plates and a Giraud trimmer will cost you $500-$600 for a few dissimilar cartridges, so that puts you in the $1000+ category, so I voted $600-$800, since you're consolidating things.

Personally, I'm fine doing annealing on my TrimMate with blow torch, but the case trimming is where I'd throw the $500+ first, not on an annealing machine, FWIW.

Chris

 

[huntersedge89]

A good annealing machine will cost you $500 with multiple cartridge plates and a Giraud trimmer will cost you $500-$600 for a few dissimilar cartridges, so that puts you in the $1000+ category, so I voted $600-$800, since you're consolidating things.

Personally, I'm fine doing annealing on my TrimMate with blow torch, but the case trimming is where I'd throw the $500+ first, not on an annealing machine, FWIW.

Chris

Chris thank you very much for your input! One thing that I forgot to mention is that the case annealer is a bolt on feature that we could leave off for those that don't need or want it. This would reduce the cost a bit, although the majority of the cost will already be in the base machine.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

I don't think that it is too much to expect a combo machine to be in the $500-600 range, as, without seeing your design, I would guess that it probably doesn't add that much more for you to add on the annealer heads.

Edit: this price I say is without the add on auto feed mechanism, just to trim and anneal the cases.

 

[ChrisGarrett]

Chris thank you very much for your input! One thing that I forgot to mention is that the case annealer is a bolt on feature that we could leave off for those that don't need or want it. This would reduce the cost a bit, although the majority of the cost will already be in the base machine.

$200-$300 extra, for an annealing feature and I would pony up, even being frugal. For double the price of the base unit/trimmer, not so much so.

We're all different and some of us have the Proemetheus I/IIs for close to three grand, so what's affordable for me, isn't for the other guy and vise versa. I don't do large volume reloading, so my Lyman with drill adapter bar works well for batches of less than say...500, although the camphering/deburring is the slow part. Other guys, they're doing 1k, 2k and more at a stretch, so something like a Giraud, or Gracy, makes more sense to them.

Chris

 

[huntersedge89]

Obviously everyone wants to spend as little as possible. Have you guys sent any out for reviews from the field yet?

We do understand that and we are trying to keep the cost as low as possible. While still meeting the level of quality that we expect and that we know our target market would expect.

Right now we are only in the design stage.

 

[QuickNDirty]

Arduino powered?

 

[Twoboxer]

I think you'd sell quite a few at $799, and less but still good at $899

 

[M1Amen]

$600-$800, but must meet the same impeccable performance of the Giraud.

 

[X-fan]

Lots of guys spend 1000.00 on the 2 pieces of gear so any less than that would be ideal.
The key to success is to make it quickly changeable from 223 to 308 to 338 Lapua.

 

[turbo54]

Why are posts being deleted from this thread?

EDIT: I see, now... The OP has posted the same thread and same poll in several different places...

 

[huntersedge89]

Lots of guys spend 1000.00 on the 2 pieces of gear so any less than that would be ideal.
The key to success is to make it quickly changeable from 223 to 308 to 338 Lapua.

We feel that the design we have, will allow for quick caliber changes (a few minuets to change calibers). This was one of the major considerations we looked at when working on the design.

However, being able to manufacture something like this and sell it for under $500 would be challenging and might not be possible. Perhaps that is the reason nothing like this is currently on the market. We feel that anything in the $800-$1000 price range would be reasonable considering the combined cost of similar non-automated products, plus the advantages the we believe our design will offer to the consumer.

 

[huntersedge89]

Why are posts being deleted from this thread?

EDIT: I see, now... The OP has posted the same thread and same poll in several different places...

I posted this in the equipment and reloading sections because I didn't know were it would best fit. Sorry if this is a problem, I didn't know.

 

[P7id10t]

What people say and do are often quite different. You didn't present an option of $0, however the people who say they wouldn't buy it is an important statistic too. That would be my vote, even if I had unlimited funds. I primarily reload because it's relaxing and on some calibers I save $ to boot.
I'm teaching my kids to reload -- perhaps I'll go the 3rd world route first and have them make my ammo.

 

[huntersedge89]

What people say and do are often quite different. You didn't present an option of $0, however the people who say they wouldn't buy it is an important statistic too. That would be my vote, even if I had unlimited funds. I primarily reload because it's relaxing and on some calibers I save $ to boot.
I'm teaching my kids to reload -- perhaps I'll go the 3rd world route first and have them make my ammo.

That is a good point. I should have made that an option as well. However I don't think I can edit the poll now.

 

[X-fan]

We feel that the design we have, will allow for quick caliber changes (a few minuets to change calibers). This was one of the major considerations we looked at when working on the design.

However, being able to manufacture something like this and sell it for under $500 would be challenging and might not be possible. Perhaps that is the reason nothing like this is currently on the market. We feel that anything in the $800-$1000 price range would be reasonable considering the combined cost of similar non-automated products, plus the advantages the we believe our design will offer to the consumer.

If you offer the precision of the dual torch Bench Source annealing machine, with a machine that trims and deburs cases to plus or minus less than a thou tolerance, and make the setup both quick and REPEATABLE, people will come in droves at $800.00-$1000.00.
This thing has to have benchrest precision or folks will run away.

 

[huntersedge89]

If you offer the precision of the dual torch Bench Source annealing machine, with a machine that trims and deburs cases to plus or minus less than a thou tolerance, and make the setup both quick and REPEATABLE, people will come in droves at $800.00-$1000.00.
This thing has to have benchrest precision or folks will run away.

Our current design uses two heating heads, to shorten the overall process time and allow for a more consistent heating.

 

[RugerSlinger]

$600-$800, but must meet the same impeccable performance of the Giraud.

This +1000, I would have no problem spending $7-800 on this unit if it is in the same class as the Giraud. In all honesty if it was closer to $1000 I would go with the Girauds because they are a proven company. If your product proved to be in the same class as a Giraud, I don't think $1000 is out of the question but not initially. I am going to subscribe to this thread, please keep us updated. I know you are in the beginning stages so updates will be slow to come but I am REALLY interested.

I hope this goes somewhere for you and the shooting community!
Andrew

 

[Paulyr450]

Sounds great,if it had a good reputation maybe more than a thousand but i voter for 600 to 800.

 

[jwp6114]

To be honest I would spend $1000 on a machine as your building only under 3 circumstances...

1. I will not buy a product that has a 10 week wait time... Be able to support your market. Many folks who would benefit from such machine that are relatively low budget shooters that reload would still slap it on a credit card.

2. The cutter of the trimmer must be a 3 way cutter. Trim, chamfer inside and de-bur outside... If not i would pass, eliminating 3 steps in one is the only way I would buy such a machine.

3. And the simplest, must be able to run each operation independent if desired. One at a time, not anneal if I don't want to.

I personally load .223 in bulk enough to warrant a Giraud trimmer. But I don't anneal 223, but my 308 and 243AI ammo gets annealed every other shot and rarely trimmed.

Love to test a prototype for ya.
Jake

 

[huntersedge89]

To be honest I would spend $1000 on a machine as your building only under 3 circumstances...

1. I will not buy a product that has a 10 week wait time... Be able to support your market. Many folks who would benefit from such machine that are relatively low budget shooters that reload would still slap it on a credit card.

2. The cutter of the trimmer must be a 3 way cutter. Trim, chamfer inside and de-bur outside... If not i would pass, eliminating 3 steps in one is the only way I would buy such a machine.

3. And the simplest, must be able to run each operation independent if desired. One at a time, not anneal if I don't want to.

I personally load .223 in bulk enough to warrant a Giraud trimmer. But I don't anneal 223, but my 308 and 243AI ammo gets annealed every other shot and rarely trimmed.

Love to test a prototype for ya.
Jake

Jake, Thanks for the input its greatly appreciated.

I can't speak too much to your first point because we haven't spoken with many suppliers of parts or manufactures yet. However, we have tried to design it so that the majority of parts for it should be easily sourced (common bolt sizes, standard motors, gears, etc.).

Secondly we believe that the machines main advantage is the time savings that it will be able to offer. So yes it is currently designed to trim, chamfer, and de-bur all in one step. However it is easily adaptable to just trim if a user preferred that for certain uses.

Thirdly, Yes it is currently designed so that the annealer and trimmer can be run independently of each other or together. As we realized that most people are not going to want to anneal their brass every time they trim it.

 

[Morrisongd]

I currently use a Bench Source and Giraud for 338 Lapua. I feel you are on to a fantastic idea...it must however be unwaveringly accurate and functional with easy set up and cal change. Through in some annodized aluminum, torx screws, brass fixtures, spirit levels...and make it look cool...price it at $700....you will be the talk of the Shot Show in Vegas! Good Luck and hope to see it soon....

Maybe there is a chance it could stainless tumble them too? Hmmmm... Ha ha.

Regards,

Dale City, VA

 

[huntersedge89]

I currently use a Bench Source and Giraud for 338 Lapua. I feel you are on to a fantastic idea...it must however be unwaveringly accurate and functional with easy set up and cal change. Through in some annodized aluminum, torx screws, brass fixtures, spirit levels...and make it look cool...price it at $700....you will be the talk of the Shot Show in Vegas! Good Luck and hope to see it soon....

Maybe there is a chance it could stainless tumble them too? Hmmmm... Ha ha.

Regards,

Dale City, VA

Thanks for the feedback and ideals.

That would be pretty slick to have it set up with a stainless steel media cleaner! Stainless steel media is what I use and its hands down the best way I've found to clean brass so far, (I've tried sonic cleaners, tumblers, different cleaning solutions...basically every other method I've heard of).

How it is currently designed now you could probably have them drop directly into your tumbler once trimmed/annealed.

 

[Sniper Uncle]

Thanks for the feedback and ideals.

That would be pretty slick to have it set up with a stainless steel media cleaner! Stainless steel media is what I use and its hands down the best way I've found to clean brass so far, (I've tried sonic cleaners, tumblers, different cleaning solutions...basically every other method I've heard of).

How it is currently designed now you could probably have them drop directly into your tumbler once trimmed/annealed.

Only problem with that, the two articles I have read before starting to anneal myself said to clean first, so that you can see if the brass is still shiny after annealing---if it loses it's shine, then the annealing has been done too much, and the brass is probably too soft....

24hourcampfire.com - "Annealing Cases" (Ken Howell)

The Art and Science of Annealing

 

[jwp6114]

Same here, I tumble clean, anneal, then resize, check trim length, then trim / de-bur if needed.

I have been in the habit of completing full case prep of 308 Lapua brass after the first 2 firings... Trimming them back to 2.000, if shoulder bump is set to around .001, you can go many firings without needing to trim again. But I would be annealing every other shot.

Now where the trimmer would be more handy for me is prepping a bulk of mixed head stamp ammo for plinking ammo or hog ammo. And I personally don't anneal that stuf, Minute of hog is ok, and minute of man on plinking/run n gun ammo.

 

[jwp6114]

Any updates on this?