On the road to getting a vector on 6.5 CM on a mpa chassis. Since it's designed for aw mags. Not sure if I understand correctly. AW is not a manufacturer but a type/design of mag? Who are the top manufacturers? Is there a best out there? Anything else I should know ahead of time? I understand the lips may need fitted
- Thread starter Sincerd
- Start date
AW is a double stack mag made by AI. As far as I know no one else makes AW mags
Accuracy International AT and AW magazines are the same. Double stack, double feed.
www.eurooptic.com
The AI Arctic Warfare was the first to use the double stack double feed magazine. The AI AT, successor, followed suit and used the same magazine.
AI AT AW 7.62 / .308 Win. 10rd. Magazine 0726
AI AW 7.62 / .308 Win. 10rd. Magazine 0726 for sale! Call for best price (570) 368-3920
The AI Arctic Warfare was the first to use the double stack double feed magazine. The AI AT, successor, followed suit and used the same magazine.
Make sure you get the mag block for the MPA chassis with the curtis
A Curtis and AW mags...
This should be entertaining
This should be entertaining
What’s the problem now?
Same problem, different day.
AW mags work best with Accuracy International rifles.
If the rifle isnt made by Accuracy International, use another mag.
You can use AW mags with lots of other rifles, but you might have to tinker with things.
he wishes he'd have bought a terminus
Nothing I mean the quote about. It's just you think these things would be standardized a little more.
From what I am Gathering aw is a specific maker for a specific mag.
I'm looking at this in terms of ARs and assumed it was many different manufacturers make every different type of Mag.
For example you can get Lancer surefeeds okay magpul ect ect.
From what I am Gathering aw is a specific maker for a specific mag.
I'm looking at this in terms of ARs and assumed it was many different manufacturers make every different type of Mag.
For example you can get Lancer surefeeds okay magpul ect ect.
As of right now, only Accuracy International makes AW pattern magazines. There are no aftermarket options. I've been bugging MDT about it for a bit, hoping they'd give us another option (especially one that holds 12-14 rounds), but nothing has changed as of yet.
Look here is the deal, AW mags work great with an AI rifle, mainly because of the AI's bolt/lug design allows for proper engagement of a double feed magazine. The Remington 700 style actions (your vector is just a highly modified clone-ish thing ) can "work" with the proper DMB/chassis and receiver modifications. Key word was "work" and it placed parentheses for a reason. Basically with a two lug bolt everything has to be perfect to feed. Even then a small bit of miss alingment of the magazine with in the receiver cut is often enough to prevent positive feeding. Now some chuckle head is probably going to wonder in and say something like:
"mY (enter what ever two lug Remington 700 clone you like best) hAs BeEn 100% rELiAbLe wItH aW mAgAzInEs!!!"
But you've been warned. It will probably work fine on the range but its literally just waiting and biding its time to fuck you over the moment you add a little bit of stress or dirt to the situation. I see AWs in clone action far less than I use to while teaching classes but everytime I do, the rest of the instructors take bets as to how long it will take to fail.
Edit: I see the Vector is in fact a three lug design. I am still skeptical that Curtis has cracked the code but the geometry is definitely more promising for AW magazine compatibility .
"mY (enter what ever two lug Remington 700 clone you like best) hAs BeEn 100% rELiAbLe wItH aW mAgAzInEs!!!"
But you've been warned. It will probably work fine on the range but its literally just waiting and biding its time to fuck you over the moment you add a little bit of stress or dirt to the situation. I see AWs in clone action far less than I use to while teaching classes but everytime I do, the rest of the instructors take bets as to how long it will take to fail.
Edit: I see the Vector is in fact a three lug design. I am still skeptical that Curtis has cracked the code but the geometry is definitely more promising for AW magazine compatibility .
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Yeah.....AW mags..... They suck... Send them to me for disposal
My experience with AW mags in my own, and several other, Defiance actions has been great. No problems in freezing rain or NM desert dust.
I'm sure they're awful for everyone else though.... So send them to me... I'll even pay shipping
My experience with AW mags in my own, and several other, Defiance actions has been great. No problems in freezing rain or NM desert dust.
I'm sure they're awful for everyone else though.... So send them to me... I'll even pay shipping
If you get so many that you can't dispose of them all, please send a few my way.
done correctly, they work as good (better imo) than anything
not done correctly, dumpster fire
not done correctly, dumpster fire
The only mags I've had any problems with my vector Is magpul. But they worked fine with the axiom bring it isn't cut for AW
No issues with AI, Accurate mag, MDT 10 round mag and there 6br mag.
I have been tempted to test a AW if I come across one.
No issues with AI, Accurate mag, MDT 10 round mag and there 6br mag.
I have been tempted to test a AW if I come across one.
I got AWs to run in a TL3 w/ AW cut. The front feed lips needed to be flaired out so the round was higher. The rear needed to be played with so the rounds sat higher, but it didn’t need to be opened up like the front. It took a good bit of work. I got 1 or 2 to feed extremely well. I could never get a third to work.
I switched to AIs and never looked back
I switched to AIs and never looked back
Another problem I have seen
Even done correctly, the more you use it, the worse it gets, if anything moves, even a little, one side will drop and not pick up.
Over time, slamming the mag into the rifle, they bend a bit, one side wont work,
Accuracy International Designed the AICS Magazine to work in other rifles and actions, the fact guys want the shorter 10 round mag does not change this, AW mags are double stack, AICS are single.
Use AICS mags,
Oh, and if you use a double stack mag on the clock make sure the bolt is forward when you slam the mag into the well. AW Mags are designed to be top-loaded from inside the rifle. Yes, you read that correctly an AI can be internally loaded as a sniper thing to reduce movement. So you can top feed them into the mag. This means they are pretty loose and if you slam it hard enough in a different rifle, they will squirt out the top of the mag and foul the action.
Even done correctly, the more you use it, the worse it gets, if anything moves, even a little, one side will drop and not pick up.
Over time, slamming the mag into the rifle, they bend a bit, one side wont work,
Accuracy International Designed the AICS Magazine to work in other rifles and actions, the fact guys want the shorter 10 round mag does not change this, AW mags are double stack, AICS are single.
Use AICS mags,
Oh, and if you use a double stack mag on the clock make sure the bolt is forward when you slam the mag into the well. AW Mags are designed to be top-loaded from inside the rifle. Yes, you read that correctly an AI can be internally loaded as a sniper thing to reduce movement. So you can top feed them into the mag. This means they are pretty loose and if you slam it hard enough in a different rifle, they will squirt out the top of the mag and foul the action.
GAP tempest runs them flawlessly eb when run hard. No issues as lowlight describes happening on the other brands but ive seen it happen to quite a few people forcing 2 lug actions to run them.
its a stock/dbm/mag catch fitting more than playing with the mag lips...none of my mags are tweaked at all
tweaking the mag might semi work for a little while, but i wouldnt trust it for extended/hard use
first impact i did is at 5-6k rounds, 3rd barrel...no issues yet
if the mag catch on the dbm wears out any, ill just weld it back up or replace it but so far so good
ive got them fitted tight...the mags dont move/wiggle when theyre latched in
i still keep an AICS mag in my pack as backup just in case tho lol
@Sincerd have you already purchased the action?
AW mags are very hit or miss when ran in a system other then the one it was designed for (AI rifles). Unfortunately, mostly miss.
You are potentially setting yourself up for a frustrating experience. Combined with an action manufacturer that's known for quality issues, Curtis Customs, along with the design liberties they took with their action that if not built properly is the cause of lots of feeding frustrations, you are not setting yourself up for success.
If it was me, I would completely avoid the temptation to use AW mags in a rifle that's not an AI, and I would be avoiding Curtis Customs like it was the plague.
If you haven't already purchased your action, I would direct you towards a Lone Peak Fuzion or Impact. If you have to have 60° bolt throw, then Terminus. And go with AICS pattern mags, of which a lot of good options are available (AI and MDT are my recommendations).
For a first custom rifle (I'm making this assumption), set yourself up for success and go with proven products, rather then treading down the road that has led many others to expensive and timely frustrations.
AW mags are very hit or miss when ran in a system other then the one it was designed for (AI rifles). Unfortunately, mostly miss.
You are potentially setting yourself up for a frustrating experience. Combined with an action manufacturer that's known for quality issues, Curtis Customs, along with the design liberties they took with their action that if not built properly is the cause of lots of feeding frustrations, you are not setting yourself up for success.
If it was me, I would completely avoid the temptation to use AW mags in a rifle that's not an AI, and I would be avoiding Curtis Customs like it was the plague.
If you haven't already purchased your action, I would direct you towards a Lone Peak Fuzion or Impact. If you have to have 60° bolt throw, then Terminus. And go with AICS pattern mags, of which a lot of good options are available (AI and MDT are my recommendations).
For a first custom rifle (I'm making this assumption), set yourself up for success and go with proven products, rather then treading down the road that has led many others to expensive and timely frustrations.
MDT has been working on this
I know they've hinted at it on here (and I'm sure they're tired of me tagging them in posts/comments about it on here), and if they release them, I will be ordering at least 2 immediately.
Hmmm, I guess that the tens of thousands of rounds through my AW mags in my Stiller action should have known about this. I’ll take my AW mags any day over others, thank you.
I’ll bet that the OP is wondering what can-O-worms he opened up here, lol.
I personally have never had an issue with bent feed lips or rounds jumping into my action and I almost always slam the mag in with an open bolt during practice and matches. I do know that you do have to tune the action latch to properly engage the magazine and hold it in tightly, but that isn’t an everyday thing once you set it up right.
While we’re discussing potentials for failure, no matter how common, I have a quick one for you. In a team match at what was then Core, I think it was the Crucible match put on by Ryan, my partner assigned to me was running AICS mags, me AW, and made a couple comments that he’d heard that AW mags were bad because you could drop them and the rounds would all spew out of the mag. I had never experienced that, even having dropped full mags before, but conceded that it was a real possibility that I could see happening.
Second day we were shooting a stage where there was a metal barricade that had to be shot off of by one team member before the other could engage their targets from prone. I think I got that stage right. Anyway, my partner went first on the barricade, which required a mag change halfway through. During the mag change he dropped his loaded AICS mag on the concrete platform. It hit just right so that the removable bottom plate flew off, the spring and all of the rounds went everywhere. Well crap on a cracker!
I helped him locate the empty mag and he had to hand feed the rest of the rounds as I scrambled around to pick them up and hand them to him. It really had to look pretty funny to an RO or other observer.
After that stage, we decided that he really should be carrying that second backup mag on his belt and also that shit happens. Even to AICS mags. True story.
I personally have never had an issue with bent feed lips or rounds jumping into my action and I almost always slam the mag in with an open bolt during practice and matches. I do know that you do have to tune the action latch to properly engage the magazine and hold it in tightly, but that isn’t an everyday thing once you set it up right.
While we’re discussing potentials for failure, no matter how common, I have a quick one for you. In a team match at what was then Core, I think it was the Crucible match put on by Ryan, my partner assigned to me was running AICS mags, me AW, and made a couple comments that he’d heard that AW mags were bad because you could drop them and the rounds would all spew out of the mag. I had never experienced that, even having dropped full mags before, but conceded that it was a real possibility that I could see happening.
Second day we were shooting a stage where there was a metal barricade that had to be shot off of by one team member before the other could engage their targets from prone. I think I got that stage right. Anyway, my partner went first on the barricade, which required a mag change halfway through. During the mag change he dropped his loaded AICS mag on the concrete platform. It hit just right so that the removable bottom plate flew off, the spring and all of the rounds went everywhere. Well crap on a cracker!
I helped him locate the empty mag and he had to hand feed the rest of the rounds as I scrambled around to pick them up and hand them to him. It really had to look pretty funny to an RO or other observer.
After that stage, we decided that he really should be carrying that second backup mag on his belt and also that shit happens. Even to AICS mags. True story.
I have AIAT that uses AW mag and AI chassis that uses AICS mags, and prefer the AW since it is shorter and also because AW users think that we are special, but as it was mentioned before you have to pay attention when inserting the AW mags. If you slam it or if the bolt is not fully back there is a good chance that the rounds will pop out, and it's not always obvious and then you end up with a malfunctioning AI, which never happens .
I feel confident being able to adjust feed lips or file down that catches. None of that intimidates me. I mean of course I don't want to spend four or five grand on something that isn't reliable. But little tweaks I can make happen no problem.
I mean is this a design flaw or is it tolerance stacking causing issues? If I can get them to run reliable I think I would rather have aw mags. Bigger capacity in a shorter package is always a good thing
I mean is this a design flaw or is it tolerance stacking causing issues? If I can get them to run reliable I think I would rather have aw mags. Bigger capacity in a shorter package is always a good thing
What part specifically? On how the Vector binds with AICS mags with upward pressure? Seems to be an issue with the Curtis mags. I don't have an issue with any of my actions and upward pressure with AICS mags (Defiance, Mausingfield, Lone Peak, Rem700).
Curtis actions have more feeding issues then most. A lot of that is due to the oversized bolt.
I was RO'ing a PRS stage with a natural rock as the shooting area/surface.
Day 1: A shooter went to position his rifle with an AICS mag in (bolt back). His magazine bottom plate somehow perfectly caught the tiniest of sharp prorustions of the fairly rounded rock and pulled/slid off. He dumped the entire mag, spring, and follower. I thought that was a freak occurrence and could not be repeated if one tried deliberately.
Day 2: Same stage with reduced par times......see where this is going?
Same shooter advances to the rock. Positions rifle and mag plate gets pulled off again! Follower out & Rounds everywhere.
I didn't ask if he had a shitty dimple on that mag' plate (no aftermarket extension was being used) but wow!
It’s the other way around, the catch or bottom metal needs to hold the mag higher not lower
no design flaw...AW mags were designed to work with a 3 lug AI bolts in AI rifle’s, and they work perfectly...chassis and stocks/bottom metals were designed for typical AICS mags as they allow for way more room for error...AWs weren’t designed for rem700 clones or similar, but they can work with modification
If you’re new to this, I wouldn’t go this route right off the bat unless u have a competent smith setting it up
My Tempest loves AW mags and actually won't run AICS pattern mags. Hopefully, my Terminus Zeus will run the AWs just as well. I have never had a round pop out of the top when I slam the mag in.
I will say that I had to file the mag catches down on every AW I've owned for an MPA, MDT ACC, and Manners. No experience with others.
I will say that I had to file the mag catches down on every AW I've owned for an MPA, MDT ACC, and Manners. No experience with others.
If an action cut for AWs binds from AWs going up into the bolt then throw it in the trash where it belongs and get a better action
AWs in a stock system designed for AICS needs to go higher
the mag hitting the bolt is from a bad mag cut design or a bdl cut (like a factory rem700) trying to run mags
If you want AW mags to run reliable, run them in an AI rifle, for what they were designed for. Other than that ,you takes your chances.
That’s my video. First off thanks for watching! Truly appreciate it.
Nextly, I have had no issues running AW mags in my Vector action for the last year and a half. I’d guess about 6k rounds through the same 2 mags. About 4K of that in national level match conditions. I literally have never cleaned them and treat them like shit. And in all sorts of conditions: snow, rain, mud, hail, fine dust, etc. no issues. (Ask anyone that went to Wyoming for the Gunwerks match in late September about the weather)
YOU DO HAVE TO SET THEM UP (probably)! I had to tweak my feed lips slightly (opened them up) and I had to trim the mag latch on my KMW Sentinel, Manners PRS1, MDT ACC, KRG W3, and had to adjust the height setting on my JAE and MPA Matrix mag latch as well.
See the theme, chances are the stock/chassis is comes with a mag latch that’s by default too tall so you can trim if needed. You can always take some off, but putting it back is much harder.
This was a direct quote from Terry Cross when I contacted him about the situation when I first got my Vector. Terry intentionally send his latches on the taller side.
As for the MPA mag block someone mentioned, in my experience and the original design of it, it was only for those wanting to run AICS PATTERN MAGS. Not needed for AW mags.
Now, In regards to AW mags in general, I use them because I feel they are the best mag bar none. Nothing in MY EXPERIENCE feeds as smooth, reliably, or is as robust as AWs.
People are correct that in a 2-lug action it can and usually is more difficult to get AWs to run properly, but it can be done. I’ve seen it. From top Pro PRS/NRL shooter too.
As you know the Vector is a 3 lug action so it works a bit better.
If you or anyone else has any questions/issues please feel free to PM and I’ll help you out as best I can. I’m not an engineer or some rep for AI or anything (I wish I was *cough cough* Team AI) lol I’m just some stubborn ass that wanted AWs to work with my action.
Update provided. Thanks for the tag brother. Hope I can be of help to anyone with questions.
