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Suppressors AWC? Any love out there?

A

Addicted

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Apr 1, 2009
126
1
50
Upstate, South Carolina
I've been reading for days upon days and googling, searching here, etc... on everything I can find to answer my question.

I have come down to two (2) systems (I could be pursuaded otherwise so please throw what you have out there). I will be putting this can on a DTA SRS and my T3 Tikka, both in .308. I've also decided that when I get my .338 conversion I will just get another can for it.
I like both the Shark and AWC cans. I have read everywhere about other systems, but keep coming back to these two. I haven't had the ability to hear any in person.
I really like the longevity of the AWC business and their long relationship with military, etc... It seems they put a lot of money into R&D, etc... Not knowing a lot about these systems in general, it seems to me that they have likely been around the industry this long for a reason. However, I don't see a lot of talk about them. Am I missing something? And is the fact that Shark is relatively new to this world anything to get hung up on? These suppressors stay with you a while, so I want to be informed. Thanks.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

The thunder trap is an excellent silencer. I have moved several and the response has always been great. The AWC silencer is heavy, but very very quiet. I have heard great things about the Shark silencers, but no exp. with one
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I agree that the AWC Thundertrap is an awesome silencer. I use mine on 223/300Whisper and 308. Pricy...but you get what you pay for...
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

After 30 years of owning them, I called them up one day and really complained that they do not tell their story as effectively as they should. The truth is that Lynn McWilliams is one hell of a story, but he is old school as he will not piss on anybody at anytime to make his point. For those that know him he is "the finest kind."

This is AWC's 30th year in the business. As a result, Lynn decided to set the record straight.

Enjoy the following, from their new 2010 web site.
Read it and you will know more than most.

http://www.awcsystech.com/about/letter-from-mac/

This is long overdue too:

http://www.awcsystech.com/about/suppressor-information/

Now as to your question: At the highest end of the spectrum there are few real players. You are looking at two of them and IMO you can do well with either. For me, after hearing the cans, the questions were always 1. How big is the shop? 2. How long have they been at it? 3. What is the likely hood they will be around? I'm watching with great curiosity as some of the new suppressor shops are now dropping their price (one year after spiking their prices) and pissing off both distributors and customers (those that bought at the higher price) alike. You should get what you pay for and pay for what you get.

Back from way when....Lynn then U.S. Marine, "teaching landmines, booby traps, clandestine entry and exit, surface/underwater demolition, and expert riflemanship."

Lifestyle products on their website? Free cans for a tatoo...I doubt it, ever. Way too sober and serious for that. Last week I was with a guy that told a story about defending a fuel tanker delivery when they got hit, they were all covered in petrol when they opened up return fire. AWC cans never lite one of them up, that is suppression and that is what a great can is for and that, in part, is how and why he was around to tell the story.

punji-stake.jpg


 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I have used their thundertrap for 8 years now no problems to report. I would go for a beefy thread like 5/8x24. I also have their raider and abraxus they have good stuff. Just to confuse you a little more , look at swr mfg.com
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Thank you everyone and RollingThunder. I had read the letter from MAC and it really made me think that was a company I wanted to do business with in the end. I also visited a certain competitor's site and was reading all kinds of good things about their cans. However, the "lifestyle" and craziness of the site really turned me off. That is the exact opposite of what I was looking for in a company I want to depend on to be around for a long time.

I was told about SWR a couple of days ago. I am seeing a lot of people that think their pistol cans are the best available, but not so hot on their rifle cans. I am intrigued to find out more about them, b/c they are only 20 minutes down the road from me. I have an appointment on Monday with a local dealer that is going to show me some of their cans and educate me some more about SWR.

In the end I am looking for an excellent product made by a company I can trust. I appreciate all the input and welcome more.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I have two AWC Titanium Thundertraps. One 6mm(6XC) and one 7mm(7WSM). I really like the accuracy and suppression levels of each. If I was given a full refund, I would buy the exact same pieces again.
Semper Fi
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

badlander,archangel,titan3,raider,thundertrap,ultra77/22, i guess you could call me a happy customer?
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I have shot the swr side by side with the thundertrap , its hard to tell which is quieter, They both seem to enhance a little more accuracy I just feel the awc is a tough unit<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Addicted</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank you everyone and RollingThunder. I had read the letter from MAC and it really made me think that was a company I wanted to do business with in the end. I also visited a certain competitor's site and was reading all kinds of good things about their cans. However, the "lifestyle" and craziness of the site really turned me off. That is the exact opposite of what I was looking for in a company I want to depend on to be around for a long time.

I was told about SWR a couple of days ago. I am seeing a lot of people that think their pistol cans are the best available, but not so hot on their rifle cans. I am intrigued to find out more about them, b/c they are only 20 minutes down the road from me. I have an appointment on Monday with a local dealer that is going to show me some of their cans and educate me some more about SWR.

In the end I am looking for an excellent product made by a company I can trust. I appreciate all the input and welcome more. </div></div>
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

+1 for customer service. I needed a thread protector for my rifle after the origional went missing. I gave them the specs over the phone and had it in less than a week (just paid shipping) it fit just as good as origional.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tucsondave</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bought my first AWC,Tit. Archangel 8 years ago. Since,I have purchased the T Trap in .338 for multiple applications. Great Suppressor and even better customer service. </div></div>
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I have several AWC suppressors, they are very well built, a bit heavier than some that are out there, but they are like a tank, no problems so far, since 1994, with any of them.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

the Jaws from Shark suppressors is a Quiet Can I have heard it on 737Sharks own 338Norma and is an amazing can and customer service is top notch. Also you can disassemble all shark suppressors to clean them an check the baffles should you be worried you did something to it during shooting. Each can comes with the tool and carry case for the tool and owners manual and to swap from rifle to rifle all you have to do is buy all the different screw in thread end caps to mount on different rifles with different thread pitches. any other questions please Call or email 737Shark an he will answer any and all questions you have and get you squared away
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I am hopefully going to see the SWR on Monday. I talked to the guy at Shark and that is one of the original two that I really like. Not much history with Shark, and I can't find people talking about them except on here. I really like what I hear, but the shortness of existance makes me a little nervous for that kind of cash. Not sure that is enough to justify doing something different though. I could be pursuaded that this isn't an issue, but it is difficult since I've never even seen a can shot except on youtube
frown.gif
Hopefully that will change Monday.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

addicted the old addage you get what you pay for rings true with suppressors the Sharks are really worth that if not more talk to LowLight on here even he puts a shark suppressor at the top of his list for thread on suppressors
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

also take a look at how many shark suppressors you see out there for sale by users of them trying to upgrade to something better NONE you wont be able to at all because once you get a shark there really isn't anything better out there than a Shark PERIOD
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

After reading the article on AWC website a Thundertrap is on my short list. Anyone know what the sound difference is between the Ti can and the steel? I'll be suppressing a 300wm.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I just read both articles. Some parts I agree with. Others I do not.

Case in point, there is nothing magical about integral 22lr suppressors. The magic that reduces super sonic ammo to subsonic velocities is drill holes in the barrel. The holes have to be done in such a way as not to shave the bullets. But then you either have an ideal solution or less of one. I'd rather manipulate my projectile speed and performance through ammo selection. You cannot really do this with AWC's 22lr integral rigs. Subsonic ammo use becomes a liability. For a Solider who can only get one kind of ammo, maybe this is an ideal solution. For killing, CCI's segmented subsonic HP bullets have been superb. But you can't use them in the AWC rigs....

AWC has been in business a long time. They do things their way, right or wrong. My problem is how it is impossible to determine how old their suppressors are. Is that Thundertrap on your dealers shelf a year old or five? Do they update their models as technology improves enough to make this concern even matter? Dunno...

I will edit this to add, I do agree with their statements regarding db numbers and frequency. <span style="font-style: italic">"The problem with decibel readings is that it expresses a pressure level of sound, and gives no insight as to the "quality" or frequency of the sound. "</span> That's all spot on. We can get smaller db numbers by going with a higher frequency. The higher frequency sounds of a smaller magnitude are generally perceived as more obnoxious and louder than lower frequency sounds of a higher magnitude. But this has to do with understanding how the human ear works.

We can use sound meters to test other aspects especially as it relates to R&D. I don't think the testing numbers are that important outside of a developmental aspect. It's currently used as a marketing soap box, but then a lot of things are.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I will weigh in with my experience. I have two AWC cans, a titanium Archangel .22lr and Raider 5.56.
The first can I ever purchased was the Archangel and the quality and customer service was less than good. There were coiled shavings in the bore axis of the can and they threaded my barrel wrong the first time and then the second time they left a bur on the crown so bad I couldn't keep rounds on paper at 25 yards. It got fixed but was annoying to say the least especially since I had to pay shipping back to them twice for their problem and they "gave" me a thread protector for my trouble.
I went ahead with the Raider because I still bought into the hype on their website and though a tough can, it is loud and heavy compared to almost everything else out there.

I bought a Shark 300WM can shortly after and it is lighter and quieter than my 5.56 can. That sealed the deal for me.
I have suppressors from multiple companies including SWR, YHM, AAC. If you do the research there are better options out there for anything AWC makes.

Check out the AWC web page and on the front it lists a PR firm they have hired. Nothing wrong with that but they are trying to "brand" their product too. My take as a customer is that when I was dealing with them I was not a priority. That was back in 2003 so seeing as how they have surely lost a ton of .mil contracts they are trying to court the civi market.
YMMV

(edited for spelling)
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Good questions and concerns..

What I know.

BJ, Back in 1983 the barrel technology for bleed off left .22 looking like well machine swiss cheese. They worked but were "tuned" to particular rounds. By the early 90's AWC's amphibians used very few (<span style="font-style: italic">less than 4</span>) precisely machined ports and will bleed to subsonic. The gas is pulled in a particular<span style="font-weight: bold"> early</span> location and will handle a very broad spectrum of velocities. If your thinking there are lots of holes, or lots of ports going down the barrel, there are not. Use <span style="font-weight: bold">maximum</span> power, use hollow points. Subsonics are not needed, are filthy, are expensive and are not "issue" anywhere. Use 30 or 36 grain hollow point, plated are the very best. 40 grains are what the shop uses, <span style="font-weight: bold">high velocity 40 grains</span> hit hard in a .22. QUIET, they are QUIET. Get this....standard velocity will be louder. Its all about frequency shift and tuning.

<span style="text-decoration: underline">Suppressor age from AWC</span>.

VERY EASY to tell them apart right on the dealer shelf.

IF it starts with a letter "A, K, L" etc. it is pre '90s.

<span style="font-weight: bold">Every serial number after that starts with the year of manufacturing. 2009 cans start with....09. This year 10.</span>

Yes, AWC constantly improves their products and will upgrade any Client's can to current spec. Many do, I do. Hell, I've taken Sionic suppressors and returned it to them to have the internals upgraded. AWC does not make 1/2 dozen .223 cans, 1/2 dozen .30 cans.. each one different...same round.

Okent, that really does sound terrible. I'll explain the coils but the "bur" and the "free thread protector" well that is a head scratcher.

The micro coils. The initial blast chamber on the earliest archangels is a series of complex captures. In short, then AWC would do a final operation to square (90) the leading face of the thread assembly and some of those fine crispies would get caught in there. One round..one rounds and the unit purges and emits <span style="font-weight: bold">all </span>of those curls. I myself found those very same curls in my earlier rigs, sometimes suspended in medium, one round....gone. Send your unit in and get it upgraded as the archangel is still one of the quietest units out there.

The issue with your threading? No idea. Every single threaded barrel that has ever left their shop has had a thread protector on it since 1982. Every one, they call it T&P (thread and protect). No idea why yours didn't leave that way. As to a bur big enough to keep a .22 from hitting a target at 25 yards. Wow, that is really bad as a hacksaw cut-off at an angle on a .22 barrel will still hit the target at 25 yards. You must have been pissed and I would have been too.

Military contracts, ad guys....

Well hang on here. AWC has never, not once bid on a military contract. Every contract they have gotten has been the services coming with orders. Since 1993 (the year you bought) they have been straight out. Since 9/11? Read the site, before, after, then, now. Busy.

"Post 9/11 the U.S. Army Special Operations people were purchasing our Raider 5.56mm cans by the hundreds and our 9mm Titanium Abraxas units with G26 & G19 barrels and Nexus II .45 suppressors with G30 barrels. These units went to Detachment DELTA and similar Spec War units. The Air Force did the same except they opted for the stainless steel version of the Abraxas with M9 barrels and Raider M16 suppressors for the Air Force Special Operations Command. The Marine Corps bought Raiders and the Navy it seems already had full shelves of what they needed, a majority already made by AWC and ready to provide years more service. Some contracts we let go, those were what we called “good enough” contracts where what was asked for had to be dirt cheap and just “good enough” to help keep the noise levels down. Margins were thin on those contracts, products looked liked tack welded car mufflers, sound levels were poor, acceptance by operatives poorer. That was no business for us, smartest thing we ever did was politely saying “no”. Having said that, to this day, when any of our clientele really get down to the selecting the quietest, most trouble free, highest quality, most accurate suppressor, they always come calling and get warmly received. They still marvel at our newest products and we still are unabashedly proud and deeply respectful of the service men and women who choose to put their life on the line with our products. "

Civilian sales? Always been a big part of their business.

Ad guy? New ad guys? AWC has had ad guys for more years than all your other brands ad guys service combined. Nothing new. I've seen the branding others have done and I doubt Lynn would have much time for it.

RAIDERS, no way the newer TI units are too heavy or not among the quietest unit out there. I just heard them all and, honestly, they are still to my mind superb. Full auto, beat it to death? Raider.



 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I know the curls got there by truing up the bore but these were not micro curls and they were near the exit end of the can. There were two about the thickness of a pencil lead and one was still attached to a baffle. I had to take a pair of needle nose pliers and bend it back and forth to get it to come loose. If I had shot the can without removing that one it stood a very good chance of a strike.
The last time I sent this package in I talked with Lynn about these QC issues and his response was that they pick one guy out each year to do this to. We had a laugh and it was over.

The titanium suppressors are another point. I was in the market for a .45 titanium suppressor for quite some time and liked the idea of their locking system. I asked Chris if there was one on the horizon and he gave me a very flat no, not going to happen.
Low and behold less than 6 months later I find out from autoweapons that they had been selling them to "select" clients even at the time I was asking. I can understand saying something doesn't exist if it is military only but this was listed on autoweapons! That was the last straw.
Things may have changed now but their previous business practice has turned me away.
What do the Ti raiders weigh? Its not listed anywhere I can find which may be why they have a new ad guy. My M4-2000 is full auto rated as well and has less blowback and as far as I know weighs less.
Granted this is my experience from 2003-2004.
I know that they have turned out a bunch of good products for many people over the years and I am not saying they do not have good customer service for others.
This is just my experience.

As far as the ad guy, no issue with that but when they are putting ads in SAR magazine stating they are the "Acknowledged world leader in silencer technology" it smacks of hubris. Who acknowledged this and when?
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

The CCI Segmented Subsonic HP's are not dirty. And they excel at killing. The amphibian can't use them. I don't know if the problem lies in it stripping the velocity down too much to risk possible baffle strikes or if it won't cycle them. The non cycling relating to the porting and removing too much back pressure from the system.

The way to tell would be to chrono a CCI Minimag and then chrono a CCI Segmented Subsonic HP through an Amphibian. Those numbers should be extremely revealing.

There is a lot of subsonic 22lr ammunition out there on the market which is clean and far from "filthy". The cost difference is often non existent when compared to quality supersonic rounds like CCI Mini-mags.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Fair enough...you appear to have been that anointed 2003 guy. Pity.

<span style="font-weight: bold">TI Raiders come in at just under 20 oz.</span>

Now add that QD unit to your M4 (17.5) and you are....yep, at 21.3 0zs. They never add their mount weights and nobody catches it.

Lastly, those Raiders are heavier because AWC determined that the process to eliminate the TI resonance is to final wrap in SS to buffer. That will cost you 1.2ozs.

Call Chris, tell him your story, kick his ass hard and get your units back for an upgrade. IMO, the time has come for you to get back on track with them and from what your telling me, I'd say you deserve a round on them. They have been at this 30 years, full spectrum in 30 years...no doubt.

BJ, didn't mean to suggest that those are like the vast majority of subs. IMO, one just doesn't need subs to hit hard in a .22 and why bother with more than high velocity 40 grain hollows? Much, much cleaner with purge baffles to run with the hv.

 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I'll live :) Not looking for freebies, just good product and service, I will email Chris to get the ball rolling and if you don't mind I will reference your ID.
It is about time to have my Archangel serviced as it is a sealed can and I have used my Raider for .22lr as well.

I went with AWC years ago because of their stated reputation and the above was my experience. I will give them another try starting with some suppressor service.

Tom

(edit: email sent to AWC)
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Exactly, but I would go one step further, ask Chris what it would take to take your system and upgrade it to their new flash suppression end baffle (XM). There is a new spec coming out and they already comply. Slightly longer. Talk to Chris about it. I use it and when others press me on quieter this, quieter that, we'll they get that look on their face when they hear it, that "oh sh&t" look.

Be sure and let me (us) know what the process is like as well, when you started 2003, Chris had just walked in the door. 2003 was the year of Judy's car crash. I'll be waiting.

I'd say order one of their patches too...but the only patches they are likely to sell would be used to clean barrels.
smirk.gif


 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Will do.
Interesting you would mention Judy. When I bought the .22 can she was who I dealt with and during that process was the time she had back trouble which I guess was the car crash. I started the process again for the Raider and Chris was the contact. I even went out to Arizona and visited the shop when they were in some remote little wide spot in the road in the middle of the desert.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

RollingThunder, you seem to be buds with them as EVERY post (that I've read) has been praising them. Its crossed my mind on occasion you seem to be part of their PR. I guess I don't get why your so stoked about this company when all I've had is bad CS and let down when I forced myself to buy against my better judgement. I've sold 1 of my two cans because its so loud and the second will be gone once I have the money for a can (and a patch).

I figured I'll ask you then, are you telling me theres a new lighter, more quiet, ?end baffle FH? version of the Raider out now? I have an '07 and it's loud and heavy, I still have to use HP when its on my 10.5". I do know that their Ti LSS was more quiet than my Raider as I knew a bud who had one so I got the Raider expecting that the increased vol would be (at least) as quiet if not more than the LSS. Any ideas or suggestions?
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Man, they should pay me for taking apart a question like some of these. I first met Mac some thirty years ago, like I said "finest kind."

First off, lets get this straight, customer service at AWC has always been good for me and, if you read this whole thread, I am not alone. The idea that AWC has bad customer service is horse shit. These are heads down, hard working adults that fully get who is buying their products and why.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Raiders vs LSS</span>.</span>

First, the .223 itself, the .223 is a bitch of a round for anybody to really suppress way down. The perceived sound signature of the .223 is made worse by short barrels. Yours is a 10.5" and that is going have very real consequences for any suppressor set. AWC did a special run for 7.5" barrels way back and the cans had to be stretched to deal with the consequences. These were remarkable .223 and 9mm DEA lab Raiders that had all the bells and whistles, pig tails / twin gas system (La France) etc.etc. These guys have been making short barrel M16 suppressors for a long, long time.

The stock Raider is approximately 1` 1/2" X 6.7 and yes they are lighter now in TI, but <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">not</span></span> as light as their LSS can as the LSS can is <span style="font-weight: bold">100% titanium, purpose built</span> and is so for a reason. The LSS is a <span style="font-weight: bold">pistol can</span> made for the FN 5.7, it is a smaller 1 1/4" X 5.8".

Side by side? The <span style="font-weight: bold">Raider</span> is quieter than the LSS <span style="font-weight: bold">if your sending .223s</span> through them. Of course the LSS can is quieter <span style="font-weight: bold">sending the 5.7 through</span> them than the Raider is sending .223 through them. In fact we go one further, the titanium of the LSS will "ting" when you send a .223 through them. That "ting" isn't there in the 5.7. The Raider is <span style="font-weight: bold">specifically heavier</span> (SS wrap over Ti) to get that "Ting" out. Could AWC make a 100% titanium can like others? Hell yes, as they have been working with titanium since 1978. Why don't they? Frequency and it effect on perceived loudness. In the Raider Ti, its .223, its TI and SS. I think you have the SS version.

The LSS is a 7 oz pistol can.

The Raider is a beat it to death with huge volume fire all day long and never ever worry about aluminum or anything else can. That is why this unit was produced under contract for the <span style="font-weight: bold">U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, and U.S. Air Force Special Warfare Units </span>and has also been acquired by the<span style="font-weight: bold"> U.S. Navy for Specific Users</span>. These guys do not ever do the "I forced myself to buy against my better judgment" dance, when it comes to cans.If your telling me that you have a 2007 Raider (SS) and it is LOUD and heavy with a 10.5" barrel, then I would say your expectations for <span style="font-weight: bold">any</span> fully SS .223 can on a 10.5" barrel that can take high volume fire is too high. If you want absolutely the quietest can possible you will need an TI XM made for the 10.5 barrel.



 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

CSI, listen....your issue was to take a 9/16 X 24 to a 5/8 X24.

1. First, lets be clear here, the 9/16 selection was yours and that is ok too. 9/16th is popular, HS precision, etc. etc. it used to be the standard. Super skinny barrels, yes there are alot of them still, that loc-up face is small, 9/16th all day long. Last 5 years, 5/8. AWC offers over 30 different threads. 30!

2. $165....NOT $265. Chris quoted you $165 NOT $265. How do I know this? Because my full Sionic rebuild was $265 with all new internals. .$165.00 including refinishing as the whole unit gets finished, the other guys going to refinish to polymer spec for less than $100. I don't think so. AWC will scuff it up as it is a beautifully tough SEALED can. $165 <span style="font-weight: bold">INCLUDING THE SHIPPING, $165.</span>

Don't blame AWC.... blame your dealer he should have stopped you and said...."<span style="font-weight: bold">Hey CSI what thread?</span>"

Call Chris and ask him again. You've got a great unit there, lets get it going for you. Or just throw on the adapter that I linked you too and go man go!

Okent, on Sunday? However you got him, give the contact info to CSI. <span style="font-weight: bold">Now that is the AWC I know.</span>
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I too first met up with AWC when they were in the wash by the windmill. No issues even when I was waiting for my .338 T Trap paperwork to come in,I sold my TRG 42 that was gonna be its host. I called Chris and told him and AWC RE-threaded my can for the 3/4-20 that was on the PGW replacing it. Cost? $25.00 I have the receipt. Its also a plus for them to be in my backyard.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

We just got set up to sell AWC Thundertrap's guys, they are by far the quietest .338 silencer available. I had some old steel cans but never liked the heavy weight of the steel cans, they now offer the Thundertraps in titanium which I discovered at this years shot show. I like them more than the AAC Titan and the price is way better too.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sr90</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We just got set up to sell AWC Thundertrap's guys, they are by far the quietest .338 silencer available. I had some old steel cans but never liked the heavy weight of the steel cans, they now offer the Thundertraps in titanium which I discovered at this years shot show. I like them more than the AAC Titan and the price is way better too.
</div></div>

+1 on my .338 T Trap
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First off, lets get this straight, customer service at AWC has always been good for me and, if you read this whole thread, I am not alone. The idea that AWC has bad customer service is horse shit. These are heads down, hard working adults that fully get who is buying their products and why.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="text-decoration: underline">Raiders vs LSS</span>.</span>

First, the .223 itself, the .223 is a bitch of a round for anybody to really suppress way down. The perceived sound signature of the .223 is made worse by short barrels. Yours is a 10.5" and that is going have very real consequences for any suppressor set. AWC did a special run for 7.5" barrels way back and the cans had to be stretched to deal with the consequences. These were remarkable .223 and 9mm DEA lab Raiders that had all the bells and whistles, pig tails / twin gas system (La France) etc.etc. These guys have been making short barrel M16 suppressors for a long, long time.

The stock Raider is approximately 1` 1/2" X 6.7 and yes they are lighter now in TI, but <span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">not</span></span> as light as their LSS can as the LSS can is <span style="font-weight: bold">100% titanium, purpose built</span> and is so for a reason. The LSS is a <span style="font-weight: bold">pistol can</span> made for the FN 5.7, it is a smaller 1 1/4" X 5.8".

Side by side? The <span style="font-weight: bold">Raider</span> is quieter than the LSS <span style="font-weight: bold">if your sending .223s</span> through them. Of course the LSS can is quieter <span style="font-weight: bold">sending the 5.7 through</span> them than the Raider is sending .223 through them. In fact we go one further, the titanium of the LSS will "ting" when you send a .223 through them. That "ting" isn't there in the 5.7. The Raider is <span style="font-weight: bold">specifically heavier</span> (SS wrap over Ti) to get that "Ting" out. Could AWC make a 100% titanium can like others? Hell yes, as they have been working with titanium since 1978. Why don't they? Frequency and it effect on perceived loudness. In the Raider Ti, its .223, its TI and SS. I think you have the SS version.

The LSS is a 7 oz pistol can.

The Raider is a beat it to death with huge volume fire all day long and never ever worry about aluminum or anything else can. That is why this unit was produced under contract for the <span style="font-weight: bold">U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, and U.S. Air Force Special Warfare Units </span>and has also been acquired by the<span style="font-weight: bold"> U.S. Navy for Specific Users</span>. These guys do not ever do the "I forced myself to buy against my better judgment" dance, when it comes to cans.If your telling me that you have a 2007 Raider (SS) and it is LOUD and heavy with a 10.5" barrel, then I would say your expectations for <span style="font-weight: bold">any</span> fully SS .223 can on a 10.5" barrel that can take high volume fire is too high. If you want absolutely the quietest can possible you will need an TI XM made for the 10.5 barrel.
</div></div>

I guess I'll ask about the "XM" version. Most of the above I already knew, Raider and LSS are both purpose built. I was told by the AWC Rep that the LSS was GTG for semi 5.56.

As for the use by SpecOps, (I know, I hate to even mention it but will for the point) I was close to a few groups in Afgan and when the conversation went towards gear I made it a point to ask about their cans. NOT ONCE did I hear AWC. Of course, my sample size was small and secluded so maybe theres the issue.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Slimguns</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I do know that their Ti LSS was more quiet than my Raider as I knew a bud who had one so I got the Raider expecting that the increased vol would be (at least) as quiet if not more than the LSS. Any ideas or suggestions?</div></div>

I was actually giving a compliment here. The part about the LSS being more quiet than the Raider. It didn't make sense to me or my bud but that's how I ended up with my Raider. At least to our ears, it seemed that way. I originally called about the LSS but didn't want the properties of a full Ti can. It wasn't for me.

As CSI said he'd been holding out, I was too. I just didn't want anyone only having half the story as I did. Thats why I'm here.

Now as for the CS, its hit or miss as shown by this thread. No one is 100% but AWC does catch a lot of grief over their CS for a reason. I understand you support them, and I'm happy you are pleased with your merchandise. The part that gets me is that I've never seen any person who has NO interest in a company put so much effort into defending said company over.......not much at all.

I guess thats what I don't get.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I may be talking out of my ass on this but my take on special forces equipment is that someone is involved with a unit for whatever reason and gives them a good product and as long as that connection is still there then it can continue for many many years because of that reputation and relationship. Someone may have a particular in with one unit or group and be completely unknown with another.

Read the story of Reed Knight that was in Small Arms Review a few months ago and you see this repeated over and over with different companies like AWC and Fleming Firearms.
As those guys retire or move out of that circle then the younger guys make contacts with other people and so on.
My point is that products are made for specific units for specific missions by request and it may be a one off deal or grow into a multi-decade business.
The best advertisement is word of mouth and this seems to be punctuated with the special forces community.
Someone is free to correct me if I am off base.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

I think there is great truth in much of that...

"During those early years, much of what passed as a good suppressor design had come from the work of Mickey Finn, Don Walsh and Reed Knight. I had actually arranged to purchase the rights to produce Reed’s early “Hushpuppy” models. That which I couldn’t buy outright from Reed, I produced in house at AWC."

"We never lost our balance or forgot our friends. In thanks to Reed Knight, I transferred 2 fully functional .45 pistol suppressors to him to use as a starting point for the contract he was eventually awarded for the SOCOM offensive handgun. Doug Olson, who went on to work for Reed for this project was employed by AWC Systems Technology after leaving Qual-A-Tec ." MAC

Just know that AWC's GM is in his 30s.

"The part that gets me is that I've never seen any person who has NO interest in a company put so much effort into defending said company over.......not much at all."

Not defending them, pushing back for them, to my mind enough is enough. They can defend themselves or go down trying. I figure I owe them that much at least. Silent Majority is fine until those that ripped off the designs starts tearing at your pant leg, then its back off time. Beside, I am shocked by how little people know about suppressors, how much they are willing to accept on face value for a tee shirt and a calendar. There is allot of great history to tell and I am trying to square it up a bit.

 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Now it makes sense.
wink.gif


I do agree on how a lot of people are blinded by good marketing. Its a pity.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Got a phone call from Chris today.
Good conversation and will get my cans sent their way for servicing.
I will post updates to this thread unless someone thinks I am stepping on the original posters question at which point I can open a new thread.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

My local dealer stopped carrying them a few months ago and refuses to order them unless a customer insist on one. I looked at one a customer returned and it had an obviously out of round baffle in it that had suffered a baffle strike. The guy who bought it had brought it back when the rifle woudn't shoot with it on. Nearby they also had the box it had been shipped back from the factory in after they tried to get it fixed and a letter stating that they(the factory) could not find anything wrong with it and that the suppressor was totally within spec. The dealer said this was the third one that they had received with the same problem and none of them had been fixed(or replaced since one was totally destroyed) when sent back to factory and all the rifles shot fine when they tried them with other manufacturer's suppressors.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Ridiculous.....

Three words:

FLUTES NO SHOULDER

You sure you want to dance huckleberry?

This is NOT a strike, that is the gas pathing, what you are seeing is a purpose built magnificently crafted gas redirection, out of 100% titanium. When Bill Wilson (yes, that Bill Wilson) first saw it he said same thing. Then he shot with it, and he gets it now too.

VVCB.jpg




 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RollingThunder51</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ridiculous.....

Three words:

FLUTES NO SHOULDER

You sure you want to dance huckleberry?

This is NOT a strike, that is the gas pathing, what you are seeing is a purpose built magnificently crafted gas redirection, out of 100% titanium. When Bill Wilson (yes, that Bill Wilson) first saw it he said same thing. Then he shot with it, and he gets it now too.

VVCB.jpg




</div></div>
Yup. AAC does the same thing on the 1k. I saw it on a friends can and at first thought the same thing but once you look at it you can see that its way to concentric to be a bullet strike.
 
Re: AWC? Any love out there?

Yes, AAC did, no surprise there either. That is MAC's design.

One hell of a dealer, eh?
 
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