B14r hard closing ? Cock on close?

[rjz5400]

I'm wondering if anyone has diagnosed or solved this issue, my bolt knob takes kind of a lot of pressure to close. I'll review conditions below

Also bergara said I can send it in but no idea really not something the guy I talked to had seen.

As much pressure to close as it does to lift

Feels like I'm really "camming over"

B14r steel BA in Krg bravo, factory trigger with adjustment screw removed, mag in or out no difference , loading rounds or empty chamber no difference, in chassis or out no real difference, first time or cycling the bolt without pulling the trigger no difference.

I've dry fired (with drywall snap caps) probably 50 times? And fired around 200 live rounds as well.

I added some lube (I almost exclusively use mobile one euro formula 5w40) but didn't yet clean out the factory grease.

Things of considered doing, removing the trigger and testing, cleaning out all the factory lube and going heavy on the oil relube, removing the trigger and just lapping in the bolt lugs with compound 800, 1200 and then flitz polish, breaking the leading edges of the bolt faces with a stone, or just ignoring it and shooting it.


What would you do? Or did you do?

Lead time at bergara is around 45 days and they said they would send return label etc....

Pic for attention

I didn't have tools to lower my cheekpiece collars so I shot with a chin weld for this day

 

[68hoyt]

I just got my b14r , I noticed the bolt was a little hard on closing , try this , hold the trigger back with your left hand and work the bolt with your right , it’s easier , watch the cocked indicator / firing pin indicator ( red ) when you open the bolt it protrudes partially the when you close the bolt it protrudes about double so I guess this is a half cock on open and second half cocking action on closing ?

 

[rjz5400]

You are exactly right at least on.mine it doesn't stick full out until the downstroke. I wonder if this has something to do with the sear height as has been mentioned with aftermarket trigger, accept this is the factory installed bergara trigger. Maybe I'll call again tomorrow about that, I could also remove it and test the cycling with no trigger, or with a TT special off another rifle

 

[Defender32]

Run it hard and fast. Treat it like a hooker for 1000-2000 rounds. It it smooth out. It still has some pressure due to the final cocking on close.

 

[rjz5400]

That's part of my plan for sure, maybe dry fire more often....

If I shot 2000 rds I'd be negative 999 rounds!! I'm new to 22 precision and not really trying to spend 22+80cpr for 22lr. when I can load 9mm for 5c and 223 for 11c.... It's supposed to help me save some money training fundamentals!!!

Thanks though for the optimism and thoughts on the pressure.

 

[AZ Dan]

Inside the bolt, there is a shim...it can vary in thickness from the factory (this is how you adjust headspace). I forget the measurement off hand, but my B14R measured X, and a friends measured Y. Your factory shim may be a little thicker than it needs to be, thus the difficulty on close you are experiencing. Might want to take the bolt apart and measure it...could also be a little dirty inside the bolt, causing an issue also.

Also, 200 rounds is no where near broken in...my action smoothed out after 1000 rounds.

 

[rjz5400]

Well there's your mistake. Thinking you were gonna spend a grand or more on a rimfire rifle it would somehow be a "cheap alternative". You could've bought a $250 Savage with a $100 scope and trained fundamentals and had an actual budget for ammo to do it.

It will be a cheap alternative in "normal" times, $1+ a round for handload 6.5 vs 20-30c for match 22lr...

I'm getting rid of my savage (fairly accurate) and cheap vortex to build the b14r, it's a BA and using most of my big rifle parts to get the r700 experience..... you know 90' bolt throw, aics mag pattern, 13lb rifle, full size chassis/stock, exact same trigger If I want too.

Thank you to the posts that deal with the topic, I'll get back to reading those.


1000? Ok I guess I'll lower my expectations for now, hopefully I'll find a brick in the near future or just burn up the automatch I've got on hand breaking it in. It's still good practice even if I'm not shooting 2 and 3s.

I will measure that shim when I break down the bolt for cleaning next time.

 

[AZ Dan]

You don't have to shoot actual rounds...just sit with the rifle while you are watching TV and work the action...that will smooth it out some.

Here is a link to the shim kit, if you are interested. https://triggershims.com/Bergara_Rimfire.php

Post #13 in this thread, https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/penrod-b-14r-is-back.7038080/, talks about the shim process.

 

[rjz5400]

Man thanks for doing the work to link those up, helps me and whoever finds this thread in the future. Maybe when the wife's working I'll try to get through a few hundred cycles .....

 

[Emmaandhaley]

You said “Maybe when the wife's working I'll try to get through a few hundred cycles .....”

The easiest thing to do is put her butt behind the gun and shoot it. Once you win her over on shooting it then you can start buying “her” rifle’s, and you can stop hiding the guns/parts/ammo you ordered, and just tell her that they are for “her gun” . Lol

sorry I don’t have a clue about what’s going on with your rifle, but it seems like I’m buying parts or ammo for “her” gun every couple of days. Lol

The wife and I shot a local 22 Match a couple weeks ago.

$25 entry fee (x2)
$27 in ammo (x2)
Free bad a$$ meal after the match (x2)

$94 spent on a hot date. IMO that’s money well spent on a bad a$$ hot date that she will remember vs dinner and a walk on the beach.

Thanks,
Jay

 

[Defender32]

Just cycling the bolt works wonders. You don't have to press the trigger and burn a round. I would recommend taking it apart minus driving the pins out and cleaning the factory crap off of the rear spring and apply a good lube. There are a couple of good YouTube videos on how to take it apart simply.

Ammo. start keeping an eye on ammo seek, Brownells, Mid South Shooters and a few others. Put notifications and buy what you can. I am paying $75-$109 for a brick SK Standard Plus to SK Rifle match. Both shoot Awesome out of my Bergara.

 

[308pirate]

View attachment 7565164

I didn't have tools to lower my cheekpiece collars so I shot with a chin weld for this day

Wut?

 

[jinxx4ever]

glad to run across this thread. Just shot my Bergara yesterday for the first time that i bought about a month ago form a fella on here. Noticed the hard closing bolt issue on mine also. I had another about a year ago that i don't remember the same thing on. I didn't have it very long as it just sat with my wife and i shooting the vudoo's all the time. Decided to try another with the CF barrel as i'm going to shoot an indoor league the next couple weeks where it's all standing non supported. Wanted something with less weight as i'm no spring chicken anymore and standing and shooting 50 rnds with a rifle weighing over 12lbs , and that's her's with an mpa ultralite chassis, still gets tiresome.

 

[rjz5400]

Getting the wife into it might still be an option! We did shoot silloutte one time and she really enjoyed that. It does seem like newborns don't like the range so it might be a little while.

I will get on some of those lists and start looking more seriously soon.

On the cheek riser peice, I added fixed stop collars to get a repeatable height but I set it up for a different scope, I couldn't remove them to get the adjustability back so I took off the entire part to get behind the scope. .

 

[vaguru]

Couple of things those with "hard" bolt close can try.

First make sure your cocking piece is set correctly and lubicate bolt locking lugs with a quality grease. Bergara states there should be about 1/16" space between the cocking piece shroud and the bolt body. It this looks correct, then on to the next step.

Remove the bolt shroud firing pin spring assembly from the bolt body. Bergara has a video on how to accomplish that using a small hex wrench. Operate the bolt without the cocking assembly in place to decide if "hard" bolt close is evident. If no longer "hard" to operate bolt, then there is no problem with bolt headspace.

Reinstall shroud firing pin spring assembly and set to proper spacing of 1/16". This is usually one turn off from fully screwed down. If "hard" bolt close returns, then there is a "timing" issue between the cocking piece and the sear. You can remove one more turn from the firing pin spring assembly to determine if "hard" close becomes easier. If it requires less effort there, then test firing to check for reliable ignition is required. To correct this issue one would have to determine just how much material needs to be removed from the cocking piece in order to have the shroud assembly screwed in to the proper position.

At any rate, bolt cycle operations will "smooth" the locking lugs, but have no effect on the cocking piece sear issue. Bergara discourages dry firing of this rifle so that is not a solution.

I have not experienced this issue with mine, and have run the rifle with the shroud assembly at various locations, per factory, one turn more, and one turn less with no noticeable difference in accuracy.

I have one of the first rifles shipped, received 2/4/2020, and currently has over 10,000 rounds fired. Acton is super smooth and shoots very accurate. Good luck with your issue, and follow at your own risk. YMMV, JMHO.

 

[308pirate]

Mine has a tiny little bit of resistance near the end of the closing cycle. It bothers me none. I don't baby the bolt.

Once I get the scope mounted this weekend, I'll see what effect, if any, that resistance has on accuracy and function.

 

[rjz5400]

Like any production gun, these b14r I'm sure has quite a range of headspace, cocking force, close on cock, etc..

And buyers too have a wide variation in what might bother them or what they expect.

I happen to have gotten a stiffer one, and would definitely like to make is less so. I expect smoother as my savage MKII fvsr could easily be run with one pinky finger and cost a third.


I'm sure I'll get there I'll keep this updated with my results.

I'm going to measure the actual weight as far out on the bolt know as I can with a fish scale

 

[Just Chuck]

I too had a bolt that took GREAT FORCE to close. I sent it back to Bergara and the repair ticket said, "Adjusted bolt for proper relief. Test function and test fired no issues." Since getting it back ( in December), it has been a really good shooter!

I don't know about the 'proper relief' but it's doing great now. So I give Bergara an atta boy for fixing and returning it.

 

[rjz5400]

As best as I can measure it looks like right over 3lbs is what it takes to push the handle down on closing.

 

[Fritzfritz]

Mine has loosened up, or perhaps I am getting used to it. I have noticed big differences in ammo, with Remington Match Target by Eley being the worst for bolt manipulation, and Wolf match not too far behind. Lapua seems like butter in comparison. Your mileage may vary.

 

[308pirate]

On the cheek riser peice, I added fixed stop collars to get a repeatable height but I set it up for a different scope, I couldn't remove them to get the adjustability back so I took off the entire part to get behind the scope. .

Gotcha

 

[rjz5400]

Well to remedy the issue here is what have done so far.

The headspace and bolt itself don't have any affect on the hard close, without the cocking shroud the handle falls on it's own weight.

I did completely strip the factory grease (kinda dirty and manky looking) and relubed with hoppes in some places and a gun grease in others.

I also found that with one turn out (less pretension on shroud) I got a slightly lighter bolt closing and, by eye, the same strike mark on my snap caps.

I did also notice some sharp points on the various ramps and ledges on the shroud, and also some rough machining, skips? Chatter let's call it on some flats. (I don't know all the technical names for the prices) lastly I saw some of the coating or bluing coming off of the various interacting surfaces.

My plan is to run it for a while like this and possibly try one more turn out on the shroud once things wear in to each other and I find ammo this rifle shoots well. Then I can hopefully tune the firing pin to the minimum force required to consistently ignite them.

Hopefully this helps someone and I am glad I don't need to

order any parts at the moment.


Bergara gave me the impression they wouldn't replace any parts they could tell I had worked on so may call for a price check before I stone, trim, or polish any of the working pieces in/on the bolt.

 

[tnc]

Well to remedy the issue here is what have done so far.

The headspace and bolt itself don't have any affect on the hard close, without the cocking shroud the handle falls on it's own weight.

I did completely strip the factory grease (kinda dirty and manky looking) and relubed with hoppes in some places and a gun grease in others.

I also found that with one turn out (less pretension on shroud) I got a slightly lighter bolt closing and, by eye, the same strike mark on my snap caps.

I did also notice some sharp points on the various ramps and ledges on the shroud, and also some rough machining, skips? Chatter let's call it on some flats. (I don't know all the technical names for the prices) lastly I saw some of the coating or bluing coming off of the various interacting surfaces.

My plan is to run it for a while like this and possibly try one more turn out on the shroud once things wear in to each other and I find ammo this rifle shoots well. Then I can hopefully tune the firing pin to the minimum force required to consistently ignite them.

Hopefully this helps someone and I am glad I don't need to View attachment 7567818View attachment 7567819View attachment 7567820order any parts at the moment.


Bergara gave me the impression they wouldn't replace any parts they could tell I had worked on so may call for a price check before I stone, trim, or polish any of the working pieces in/on the bolt.

How did you remove the shroud? I fiddled with mine last night and couldn’t figure it out.

 

[rjz5400]

If it is cocked, you put a pin in through the shroud and just unscrew it. A few videos online I used acesandeights he is a member

 

[rjz5400]

Bergara confirmed that they won't send any parts out, even sell them to me. they told me they didn't have parts and also wouldn't send them if they did. (Basically would just pull off a complete rifle to work on mine)

At this point I'm kind of at an impass, either send it to them and I'm sure they would just swap parts until it "seems" like less force required, or just live with it.

I'm gonna shoot it some and make my mind up, if they notice I've done any changes to the cocking piece or shroud I think the won't cover any parts in the future.

In the range report b14r thread a poster there goes into the details of the cocking piece and geometry of it.

 

[Jeffm1911]

Bergara confirmed that they won't send any parts out, even sell them to me. they told me they didn't have parts and also wouldn't send them if they did. (Basically would just pull off a complete rifle to work on mine)

At this point I'm kind of at an impass, either send it to them and I'm sure they would just swap parts until it "seems" like less force required, or just live with it.

I'm gonna shoot it some and make my mind up, if they notice I've done any changes to the cocking piece or shroud I think the won't cover any parts in the future.

In the range report b14r thread a poster there goes into the details of the cocking piece and geometry of it.

Mine lightened up around 1000 rounds. Just shoot it. The bolt seems to have a lot of cam, which would be necessary for a match chamber (although I’m not sure what chamber is in the rifle) which might add to stiffness.

 

[22lfb]

It has a VERY tight chamber! I can't put in brass that has been fired with my Browning BL-22!

My B14R Steel had the same issue with a stiff bolt "out of the box". But it has lightened up a lot after about 2-300 rounds fired and cycling the bolt while watching TV. I used a very thin smear of Liqui Moly synthetic Gun Grease. I've installed a Jewell HVR trigger now - which made no notable difference in opening/closing the bolt over the factory trigger. I've not fired it with live ammo, though.

 

[Jeffm1911]

It has a VERY tight chamber! I can't put in brass that has been fired with my Browning BL-22!

My B14R Steel had the same issue with a stiff bolt "out of the box". But it has lightened up a lot after about 2-300 rounds fired and cycling the bolt while watching TV. I used a very thin smear of Liqui Moly synthetic Gun Grease. I've installed a Jewell HVR trigger now - which made no notable difference in opening/closing the bolt over the factory trigger. I've not fired it with live ammo, though.

Please tell us how the jewell trigger is working out. What weight did you get, and is it crisp and reliable?

 

[shoot4fun]

Just picked up a B14R carbon barreled action. I expected to have a stiff bolt until it broke in and, sure enough, it is.
Here is the thing that has me worried. I have tried several different brands of match ammo and they all produce the same situation. The bolt close on a live round is excessively hard. When the round is ejected I then see marks on the bullet telling me the bullet is being shoved deeply into the lands. Okay, maybe one would see this when trying the standard run of the mill 22LR stuff but I don't think the match ammo should be as deep into the lands as what I see.
Are these chambers really cut that tight?

 

[Jeffm1911]

That may be a very good thing. Accurate 22 chambers are tight. Even to the point of making unfired rounds go into chamber so far that they are hard to eject. Mine did not start shooting wel until a couple hundred rounds went down range.

 

[22lfb]

I know personally know three very accurate 22s. A CZ457 MTR, a 1960's Walther single shot and my B14R. All three shove the bullet deep into the lands/grooves. So my assumption always was that it's a good thing.

Please tell us how the jewell trigger is working out. What weight did you get, and is it crisp and reliable?

I will! Weight with the medium spring is adjusted to 2.8 oz. It'll go lower, but that's about the limit for my scarred mechanics finger And it's safe, I can bang on the stock like a mad man and it holds. With snap caps it feels super clean with almost no over travel at all. But we all know shooting at a target on the range it may feel very different. I'll report back as soon as I had a chance to go out on the range!

 

[DFOOSKING]

Are these chambers really cut that tight?

My Bergara carbon will let me extract live rounds.

Only way you get live rounds out of my 77/22 is to fire them out. Nobody complains when they see the groups it does.

 

[shoot4fun]

My Bergara carbon will let me extract live rounds.

Only way you get live rounds out of my 77/22 is to fire them out. Nobody complains when they see the groups it does.

Thankfully, my NIB B14R will extract and eject the entire round. I use the jam method for many of my centerfire rifle loads but never as deeply as this rifle is showing me. The marks on the bullet are very (did I say very) long and bolt close is overly difficult.

 

[mccannicalbob]

Just picked up a B14R carbon barreled action. I expected to have a stiff bolt until it broke in and, sure enough, it is.
Here is the thing that has me worried. I have tried several different brands of match ammo and they all produce the same situation. The bolt close on a live round is excessively hard. When the round is ejected I then see marks on the bullet telling me the bullet is being shoved deeply into the lands. Okay, maybe one would see this when trying the standard run of the mill 22LR stuff but I don't think the match ammo should be as deep into the lands as what I see.
Are these chambers really cut that tight?

Mine has done that with only some varieties of ammo. I had a lot of Eley Match where it took a really hard push to close the bolt. Other ammo, it closes pretty much as expected, though a bit harder than I’d like.

 

[TAZ1960]

Just did my own build on a B14R. Went straight to a Bix and Andy Tac Sport Pro. Found my down close pretty hard but everything else works as it should. Got it down to 13oz pull weight, just where I like it, any lower for me and I would have to sneak up on it, lol. A hard bump on the stock and it holds. I could buy the optional low sear but I am afraid bumping the stock won't hold. My question is should I try the low sear and it might ease the bolt and make possible ADs or live with it and have lots of fun and it will get better, (only 50 shots so far). Thanks for any comments.

 

[TAZ1960]

Just did my own build on a B14R. Went straight to a Bix and Andy Tac Sport Pro. Found my down close pretty hard but everything else works as it should. Got it down to 13oz pull weight, just where I like it, any lower for me and I would have to sneak up on it, lol. A hard bump on the stock and it holds. I could buy the optional low sear but I am afraid bumping the stock won't hold. My question is should I try the low sear and it might ease the bolt and make possible ADs or live with it and have lots of fun and it will get better, (only 50 shots so far). Thanks for any comments.

Correction: Found my down close pretty hard on the bolt...

 

[AirGunShawn]

I had two MAS 45 that were made in France at the Mauser factory. Both were virtually new to look at but one of them was so difficult
to close that I would not / could not sell it to anyone. Since I had two of them I was able to measure the depression where the base
of the case rests. They were both .041" deep. I felt confident that wasn't the problem area. Next I looked at the bolt stem path is cut into the receiver. It had a very sharp, crisp edge as did the bolt stem it self. I used a swiss needle file and gave it about five strokes just to break the sharp edge on the bolt stem. I tested that and it closed up wonderfully. That rifle was made in 1945. Today's stuff is most likely all CNCed and plenty accurate. I would look for a very small sharp corner that is causing you an issue. Over time, that rifle would have healed itself from
normal use so all I really did was accelerate that process. My B14R is easy to close. It is not machined as precisely as my V22 so the bolt is
a little sloppy in any position other than fully closed. Probably under .003" around it's diameter. But when it locks up, it is as solid as my Vudoo and that is what matters.

If you have shinny surfaces you can color them with a black Sharpie to see where they are hitting or sliding on.

Like any production gun, these b14r I'm sure has quite a range of headspace, cocking force, close on cock, etc..

And buyers too have a wide variation in what might bother them or what they expect.

I happen to have gotten a stiffer one, and would definitely like to make is less so. I expect smoother as my savage MKII fvsr could easily be run with one pinky finger and cost a third.


I'm sure I'll get there I'll keep this updated with my results.

I'm going to measure the actual weight as far out on the bolt know as I can with a fish scale

 

[TAZ1960]

Thank you for the information, I will check any sharp edges on my Bolt.

 

[rookie7]

Aside from thousands of cycles to the action are there any updates on reducing or smoothing out the caming action on opening and closing of the bolt on a Bergara b14r?
thanks