BAD BATCH of Compass Lake spun Kriegers

[lte82]

Call up Lee Wells at Accurate & Reliable Rifles. He and John Holliger (owner of WOA) compete against each other in service rifle at the local matches, and they both spin great barrels. Lee however runs a smaller shop and his turnaround times are days to weeks, not months. He built my side charging, 26", rifle length +2" gas system 223 upper in a little over a week on a krieger blank, though he has Satern and Wilson in the shelf too. I highly recommend him if you want a good ar barrel.

Oh, I have zero issues with my krieger barrel he built for me.

 

[lw8]

What's the spec for the gas port for the SPR? Is there a preferred reamer for a 5.56 match round like Mzk 262?

 

[nhm16]

What's the spec for the gas port for the SPR? Is there a preferred reamer for a 5.56 match round like Mzk 262?

Google told me 0.100"-0.105" is supposedly the spec for Mk12 barrels, and that WOA drills them out to .108" (both for 18" barrels with rifle length gas). Must be right because I had a LW Mk12 barrel that short stroked no matter what I did until I drilled out the gas port to spec — the gas port was probably sized for mid-length gas.

 

[Ro_Bird]

I'm watching this thread with a growing interest. I build an Mk12 a while back, probably 3 years ago now using Douglas turn by CLE. It shot well (at first) about .75 MOA with Mk262 and Blackhills seconds. Now this is nothing to write home about as I've regularly seen Mk12 MOD 1's average .5 MOA even a few that would hover around .25 MOA when suppressed but .75 MOA is well within spec for these barrel I actual have a print out from the Crane (I think) testing somewhere around the office from my last Mk12 I carried in Afghanistan, you'd be surprised what considered good to go (like 1.2 MOA).

Anyways back to the other rifle, like I said it started out alright but seemed to take a turn for the worst somewhere around 600 rnds mark. Now when I say "turn for the worse" I'm saying about 2-3 MOA on a good day with Mk262 and Blackhills. I bore scoped it and couldn’t find anything significantly wrong but there was what appeared to be a good deal of tooling marks in the lands, it look like ass but I've seen rifles with worse shoot a lot better. After that I did done a good bit of work to try to bring it back, tried a ton of different hand loads, cleaning, not cleaning, even ripped it all apart to recheck the torque settings. After a year and a half and 1500 rnds of fucking with it still nothing.

So come last week I finally decided to do a full on rebuild, only parts I reused was the barrel and the knights rail (that shit don't grow on trees these days). End result is I now have a rifle that hovers right at 1 MOA. I have no clue why this barrel has given me so much grief, as I've build a few other ARs over the years (mostly using Krieger barrels) and never had one that would hold sub MOA.

I can't say for sure about CLE but I feel the pain of wondering what the hell is going on.

 

[thejeep]

I wonder how many tomato stakes slip through.

 

[Tangodown911]

I wonder how many tomato stakes slip through.

My guess is that there are many folks buying allegedly high end barrels such as these who have no time, experience, or know how to accurately test these barrels and call them for what they are. Instead they feel that because they spent alot they are always going to get alot. And then there are some who are too cheap to buy match ammo to test its true potential. But instead they will shoot junk Federal XM193 or other sub quality 55 ball down it and claim with great comfort that as soon as they put match ammo in it, it will then go from 4.000" to 0.5" "ALL DAY LONG!" Yeah whatever. Then I'm sure there are folks that cant even measure. You know what I'm talking about. We all have that friend or a guy that we know who has no freaking concept of distance or measurements. I've seen it way too many times. A guy shoots a 5 round group with match ammo says it shoots great....it shot under an inch. Then you go look at it and after he discounted two flyers its still over two inches. TOTAL BS.

Point is I'm sure the answer to your question is that there are way too many lemons out there. In this case all we got were lemons. So what's the batting average on that one.....

 

[bustin]

My guess is that there are many folks buying allegedly high end barrels such as these who have no time, experience, or know how to accurately test these barrels and call them for what they are. Instead they feel that because they spent alot they are always going to get alot. And then there are some who are too cheap to buy match ammo to test its true potential. But instead they will shoot junk Federal XM193 or other sub quality 55 ball down it and claim with great comfort that as soon as they put match ammo in it, it will then go from 4.000" to 0.5" "ALL DAY LONG!" Yeah whatever. Then I'm sure there are folks that cant even measure. You know what I'm talking about. We all have that friend or a guy that we know who has no freaking concept of distance or measurements. I've seen it way too many times. A guy shoots a 5 round group with match ammo says it shoots great....it shot under an inch. Then you go look at it and after he discounted two flyers its still over two inches. TOTAL BS.

Point is I'm sure the answer to your question is that there are way too many lemons out there. In this case all we got were lemons. So what's the batting average on that one.....

If your 223 wylde doesn't shoot 69gr SMKs in front of 24gr RE15 loaded to 2.28" sub MOA all day. There is something wrong with the rifle or the shooter.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I'm not buying the accuracy falls off for SS barrels and then picks up routine. I've personally bought three brand new RRA uppers with Wilson SS barrels (two varmints and one predator pursuit) and they all hammered right out of the gate and never dropped off. Those are complete uppers that cost about the same as a CLE barrel alone costs. I think something is up at Krieger or compass lake or perhaps both.

I will also say that I have had my fair share of problems with krieger barrels on custom bolt guns. Every one started shooting shitty and I figured it was fouling. They shot great after being installed then dropped off. They would come back a bit after cleaning but never shot as well again as they did for the first 50 rounds. I was left scratching my head a lot. Then I had a rifle built with a rock tube and never had a problem like it again.

My KAC LPR has a krieger tube and the first 200 rounds with RL15 under 77's it hammered then I ran out of RL15. I shot a DMR match with cheap ultramax 55gr and it did ok but the other weekend trying some varget loads it wasn't doing so hot. Once I get a 34mm mount and get my HDMR on it I'll be doing a solid load development with PP2000MR and varget so I will definitely be paying close attention. The beauty is I have a factory warranty so if it starts spraying KAC will get to deal with it.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

My guess is that there are many folks buying allegedly high end barrels such as these who have no time, experience, or know how to accurately test these barrels and call them for what they are. Instead they feel that because they spent alot they are always going to get alot. And then there are some who are too cheap to buy match ammo to test its true potential. But instead they will shoot junk Federal XM193 or other sub quality 55 ball down it and claim with great comfort that as soon as they put match ammo in it, it will then go from 4.000" to 0.5" "ALL DAY LONG!" Yeah whatever. Then I'm sure there are folks that cant even measure. You know what I'm talking about. We all have that friend or a guy that we know who has no freaking concept of distance or measurements. I've seen it way too many times. A guy shoots a 5 round group with match ammo says it shoots great....it shot under an inch. Then you go look at it and after he discounted two flyers its still over two inches. TOTAL BS.

Point is I'm sure the answer to your question is that there are way too many lemons out there. In this case all we got were lemons. So what's the batting average on that one.....

On the other hand, there are folks out there who do know how to shoot. These folks understand shooter/target analysis; and therefore are able to discern defective equipment and bad ammunition from shooter error. I, being one of these folks, have not attributed poor shooting to any barrel I've purchased from CLE, quite the opposite in fact. That's why I have used CLE exclusively for the last 15 years. They are appreciated by me and other HP and LR competitiors who, going through barrels on a monthly basis, need the sort of quality and quick service as delivered by CLE.

But there are other folks out there who are buying CLE barrels based on the brand's deserved reputation who do not know how to install the barrel, who do not know how to test the barrel, who do not know how to handload match grade ammunition, and who do not know how to shoot; yet, these same folks will still expect match grade results because they don't know that they don't know how to shoot. And from their unfulfilled expectation of greatness we end up with threads like this which are as nonsensical as they are useless.

 

[Tangodown911]

On the other hand, there are folks out there who do know how to shoot. These folks understand shooter/target analysis; and therefore are able to discern defective equipment and bad ammunition from shooter error. I, being one of these folks, have not attributed poor shooting to any barrel I've purchased from CLE, quite the opposite in fact. That's why I have used CLE exclusively for the last 15 years. They are appreciated by me and other HP and LR competitiors who, going through barrels on a monthly basis, need the sort of quality and quick service as delivered by CLE.

But there are other folks out there who are buying CLE barrels based on the brand's deserved reputation who do not know how to install the barrel, who do not know how to test the barrel, who do not know how to handload match grade ammunition, and who do not know how to shoot; yet, these same folks will still expect match grade results because they don't know that they don't know how to shoot. And from their unfulfilled expectation of greatness we end up with threads like this which are as nonsensical as they are useless.

No...from shitty product we end up with threads like this. I've said it before, I can it say it's bad steel or craftsmanship. But clearly it's bad barrels. The most ridiculous unfitting part of this entire thread was when you claimed the following, "Half inch arena 20 round groupings at 100 yards with irons makes me think its delivering."

Oh but we believe you. Welcome to the internet. :/

 

[Sterling Shooter]

No...from shitty product we end up with threads like this. I've said it before, I can it say it's bad steel or craftsmanship. But clearly it's bad barrels. The most ridiculous unfitting part of this entire thread was when you claimed the following, "Half inch arena 20 round groupings at 100 yards with irons makes me think its delivering."

Oh but we believe you. Welcome to the internet. :/

Your language and overall unfamiliarity with concepts important to good shooting demonstrate you do not know that you do not know. What's problematic is that it is novices like you who help destroy the reputations of businesses which are making outstanding products for the market they are intended. Your words regarding my capability also betrays your ignorance, as those like you who can't do it do not believe it can be done. Yet, plenty of folks out there can indeed do it. In fact I don't know an HM shooter who cannot do it. It's par for the course.

 

[Tangodown911]

What overall unfamiliarity with what concepts? You have not proven anything here. Reputations are nice. But if you would like to buy a product, find out it doesn't work, over and over, then keep it because the company has a good reputation then you are lacking in understanding some important concepts in life.

I'm not trying to alter anyones reputation. Just calling it like it is and giving some feedback on my experiences. It's a shame you have to behave like this. I'm sure you got plenty of good product from Compass Lake and Krieger. I have a good Krieger now. However this was not my experience this go round.

 

[Sterling Shooter]

What overall unfamiliarity with what concepts? You have not proven anything here. Reputations are nice. But if you would like to buy a product, find out it doesn't work, over and over, then keep it because the company has a good reputation then you are lacking in understanding some important concepts in life.

I'm not trying to alter anyones reputation. Just calling it like it is and giving some feedback on my experiences. It's a shame you have to behave like this. I'm sure you got plenty of good product from Compass Lake and Krieger. I have a good Krieger now. However this was not my experience this go round.

Yes, you told it like it was from your limited perspective. Then others responded with both informed, as well as uninformed opinions. This has lead to the thread becoming meaningless. The facts are only that you believe you had a bad barrel and that you appear to have found a solution. But, from those coming to the internet for advice on what to buy, they will not leave with an impression of CLE that is deserved. It has now been undermined by folks who as I said before don't know that they don't know.

 

[Tangodown911]

What overall unfamiliarity with what concepts? You have not proven anything here. Reputations are nice. But if you would like to buy a product, find out it doesn't work, over and over, then keep it because the company has a good reputation then you are lacking in understanding some important concepts in life.

I'm not trying to alter anyones reputation. Just calling it like it is and giving some feedback on my experiences. It's a shame you have to behave like this. I'm sure you got plenty of good product from Compass Lake and Krieger. I have a good Krieger now. However this was not my experience this go round.

Just to clarrify when I spoke of the good Krieger I have now, it is one that I have had for several years. Not recently purchased.

 

[Tangodown911]

Did you even read the thread before posting?

Compass Lake admitted that the barrels were bad. They even admitted that the replacement barrel they spun up also ended up being bad and had to spin up a second replacement barrel. Bad batch of barrel blanks from Krieger.

^^^^well when it comes to what I know and what I don't know. I do know this. Just saying. ^^^^