I have been trying to sight in a weatherby vanguard for one of my friends cause he said the scope was bad. I couldn't get better than a 12" group at 200yds with it so I changed the scope to a spare 4200 I had. I got the group down to about 8". I am using Federal 180gr hot-cor factory ammo. Could it be that the rifle hates this ammo, or something wrong with the gun? Last year it started doing this, according to the friend, and he was using different ammo at the time. I haven't cleaned the barrel, yet and I am starting to think he never cleaned it either. Would bad fouling cause this much of a spread?
- Thread starter badshooter
- Start date
Re: bad groups with 300WM
I wouldn't think fouling would cause this bad of groups, but I would definitly clean it and see. 8" groups at 200 says somethings wrong. Whether it's the shooter or rifle, no one can say. Weatherby VG rifles typically shoot well. Check the action screws and make sure they are tighened down to about 60-65 in/lbs. Make sure scope base and rings are secure. Shoot it at 100 and go from there. 200 yards is a little far with a problem rifle.
I wouldn't think fouling would cause this bad of groups, but I would definitly clean it and see. 8" groups at 200 says somethings wrong. Whether it's the shooter or rifle, no one can say. Weatherby VG rifles typically shoot well. Check the action screws and make sure they are tighened down to about 60-65 in/lbs. Make sure scope base and rings are secure. Shoot it at 100 and go from there. 200 yards is a little far with a problem rifle.
Re: bad groups with 300WM
It would help to know if there is a baseline for accuracy from the rifle. Has it ever grouped a particular load well? Never rule out the ammo, case in point.
This Sako 75 shoots some factory stuff well. As you can see it hates the Federal Premium but does ok with Winchester and Remington. These groups were fired at 300 yards.
BTW, as a bonus the Winchester Supreme 140gr Accubonds chronograpghs an average of 3215fps from the Sako and is a sleedgehaimer on game.
It would help to know if there is a baseline for accuracy from the rifle. Has it ever grouped a particular load well? Never rule out the ammo, case in point.
This Sako 75 shoots some factory stuff well. As you can see it hates the Federal Premium but does ok with Winchester and Remington. These groups were fired at 300 yards.
BTW, as a bonus the Winchester Supreme 140gr Accubonds chronograpghs an average of 3215fps from the Sako and is a sleedgehaimer on game.
Re: bad groups with 300WM
Fouling can do a number on your groups. I had a factory 700 that shot between .6 and .4 MOA out the box for a few groups and then ballooned to an inch and a half. It was a factory barrel, though, so maybe you can blame the fouling on that. Cleaning it out took half a bottle of Butch's Boreshine. My problem was that I thought Ed's Red was a for real cleaner, for the longest. I tried to blame the accuracy on the low quality ammunition.
Grab a bottle of Butch's and another of Wipeout and go to town. Cost you about a box of ammo, but I think it'll help the groups out. Did you use match grade ammo?
Fouling can do a number on your groups. I had a factory 700 that shot between .6 and .4 MOA out the box for a few groups and then ballooned to an inch and a half. It was a factory barrel, though, so maybe you can blame the fouling on that. Cleaning it out took half a bottle of Butch's Boreshine. My problem was that I thought Ed's Red was a for real cleaner, for the longest. I tried to blame the accuracy on the low quality ammunition.
Grab a bottle of Butch's and another of Wipeout and go to town. Cost you about a box of ammo, but I think it'll help the groups out. Did you use match grade ammo?
Re: bad groups with 300WM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teleos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fouling can do a number on your groups. I had a factory 700 that shot between .6 and .4 MOA out the box for a few groups and then ballooned to an inch and a half. It was a factory barrel, though, so maybe you can blame the fouling on that. Cleaning it out took half a bottle of Butch's Boreshine. My problem was that I thought Ed's Red was a for real cleaner, for the longest. I tried to blame the accuracy on the low quality ammunition.
Grab a bottle of Butch's and another of Wipeout and go to town. Cost you about a box of ammo, but I think it'll help the groups out. Did you use match grade ammo? </div></div>
What were you using Ed's Red for? All cleaning? I've found it to work very well at removing powder fouling and light metal fouling, but I definitely like the Wipeout. That stuff rocks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teleos</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fouling can do a number on your groups. I had a factory 700 that shot between .6 and .4 MOA out the box for a few groups and then ballooned to an inch and a half. It was a factory barrel, though, so maybe you can blame the fouling on that. Cleaning it out took half a bottle of Butch's Boreshine. My problem was that I thought Ed's Red was a for real cleaner, for the longest. I tried to blame the accuracy on the low quality ammunition.
Grab a bottle of Butch's and another of Wipeout and go to town. Cost you about a box of ammo, but I think it'll help the groups out. Did you use match grade ammo? </div></div>
What were you using Ed's Red for? All cleaning? I've found it to work very well at removing powder fouling and light metal fouling, but I definitely like the Wipeout. That stuff rocks.
Re: bad groups with 300WM
My buddy has a Weatherby in 300 Weatherby magnum that he bought used and he had similiar problems when he first got it. I found that the scope was bound up in the rings and the forend of the stock was contacting the barrel. I put another set of rings on it and lapped them in and relieved the stock. It shoots under an inch now with factory ammo or reloads 180 gr triple shocks or match kings.
My buddy has a Weatherby in 300 Weatherby magnum that he bought used and he had similiar problems when he first got it. I found that the scope was bound up in the rings and the forend of the stock was contacting the barrel. I put another set of rings on it and lapped them in and relieved the stock. It shoots under an inch now with factory ammo or reloads 180 gr triple shocks or match kings.
Re: bad groups with 300WM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were you using Ed's Red for? All cleaning? I've found it to work very well at removing powder fouling and light metal fouling, but I definitely like the Wipeout. That stuff rocks. </div></div>
It was the bore cleaner and I was using it with Hoppes. It definitely did something, but as I found out the barrel was far from clean when the patches started to come out that way. I suppose that my habit of shooting 2 boxes and then cleaning had a little to do with it...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were you using Ed's Red for? All cleaning? I've found it to work very well at removing powder fouling and light metal fouling, but I definitely like the Wipeout. That stuff rocks. </div></div>
It was the bore cleaner and I was using it with Hoppes. It definitely did something, but as I found out the barrel was far from clean when the patches started to come out that way. I suppose that my habit of shooting 2 boxes and then cleaning had a little to do with it...
Re: bad groups with 300WM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teleos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were you using Ed's Red for? All cleaning? I've found it to work very well at removing powder fouling and light metal fouling, but I definitely like the Wipeout. That stuff rocks. </div></div>
It was the bore cleaner and I was using it with Hoppes. It definitely did something, but as I found out the barrel was far from clean when the patches started to come out that way. I suppose that my habit of shooting 2 boxes and then cleaning had a little to do with it... </div></div>
Gotcha. I'm far worse than you, the last cleaning interval on my 06 was somewhere around 350 rounds, when it stopped holding MOA I ran 2 doses of wipeout through it, I'm about 100 rounds since then and it's working nicely still.
The Ed's red is really nice the way I keep it. I have a quart paint can that I fill about halfway up, drop in a couple pistol barrels and parts that need cleaning, fill up the rest of the way and then let it sit for a day. It wipes out nicely unless I leaded the bores.
Rifles don't clean up like that, but then again, I probably should clean more than I do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Teleos</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were you using Ed's Red for? All cleaning? I've found it to work very well at removing powder fouling and light metal fouling, but I definitely like the Wipeout. That stuff rocks. </div></div>
It was the bore cleaner and I was using it with Hoppes. It definitely did something, but as I found out the barrel was far from clean when the patches started to come out that way. I suppose that my habit of shooting 2 boxes and then cleaning had a little to do with it... </div></div>
Gotcha. I'm far worse than you, the last cleaning interval on my 06 was somewhere around 350 rounds, when it stopped holding MOA I ran 2 doses of wipeout through it, I'm about 100 rounds since then and it's working nicely still.
The Ed's red is really nice the way I keep it. I have a quart paint can that I fill about halfway up, drop in a couple pistol barrels and parts that need cleaning, fill up the rest of the way and then let it sit for a day. It wipes out nicely unless I leaded the bores.
Rifles don't clean up like that, but then again, I probably should clean more than I do.
Re: bad groups with 300WM
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: badshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been trying to sight in a weatherby vanguard for one of my friends cause he said the scope was bad. I couldn't get better than a 12" group at 200yds with it so I changed the scope to a spare 4200 I had. I got the group down to about 8". I am using Federal 180gr hot-cor factory ammo. Could it be that the rifle hates this ammo, or something wrong with the gun? Last year it started doing this, according to the friend, and he was using different ammo at the time. I haven't cleaned the barrel, yet and I am starting to think he never cleaned it either. Would bad fouling cause this much of a spread?</div></div>
I had a Weatherby 7mm that did the same thing except it went from a sub-moa gun to a 4moa gun. Copper fouling was the issue with mine due to some Barnes X bullets. Cleaned it and it went right back where it started. Also, I had to relieve the stock under the barrel at the forend. Mine had a verticle stringing problem until I floated the barrel.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: badshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been trying to sight in a weatherby vanguard for one of my friends cause he said the scope was bad. I couldn't get better than a 12" group at 200yds with it so I changed the scope to a spare 4200 I had. I got the group down to about 8". I am using Federal 180gr hot-cor factory ammo. Could it be that the rifle hates this ammo, or something wrong with the gun? Last year it started doing this, according to the friend, and he was using different ammo at the time. I haven't cleaned the barrel, yet and I am starting to think he never cleaned it either. Would bad fouling cause this much of a spread?</div></div>
I had a Weatherby 7mm that did the same thing except it went from a sub-moa gun to a 4moa gun. Copper fouling was the issue with mine due to some Barnes X bullets. Cleaned it and it went right back where it started. Also, I had to relieve the stock under the barrel at the forend. Mine had a verticle stringing problem until I floated the barrel.
Re: bad groups with 300WM
Get a jewelers loupe and check out the muzzle. Maybe there is a burr in the crown?
If you have access to a case gauge like an RCBS Precision Mic, take a headspace reading by gauging 3 factory virgin loaded rounds, firing them and then comparing their fired headspace reading. If that rifle is headspacing on the belt that could be part of the problem.
Try handloading some 1x fired cases from that rifle, use the Sierra accuracy load for your chosen bullet. Use the Precision Mic's bullet seating function to set your bullet about .01 or .005" off the rifling.
Clean the shit out of the barrel also with JB Bore paste and Sweets and use spray brake or carburetor cleaner to swab out afterwards. Shoot the barrel only after you patch-out any oil that might remain in the bore.
Be sure your scope base and rings are torqued tightly and that the scope is not moving in the rings.
Of course, you could just go pawn the rifle or trade it in on a Rem 700 Sendero and not have these problems...
Get a jewelers loupe and check out the muzzle. Maybe there is a burr in the crown?
If you have access to a case gauge like an RCBS Precision Mic, take a headspace reading by gauging 3 factory virgin loaded rounds, firing them and then comparing their fired headspace reading. If that rifle is headspacing on the belt that could be part of the problem.
Try handloading some 1x fired cases from that rifle, use the Sierra accuracy load for your chosen bullet. Use the Precision Mic's bullet seating function to set your bullet about .01 or .005" off the rifling.
Clean the shit out of the barrel also with JB Bore paste and Sweets and use spray brake or carburetor cleaner to swab out afterwards. Shoot the barrel only after you patch-out any oil that might remain in the bore.
Be sure your scope base and rings are torqued tightly and that the scope is not moving in the rings.
Of course, you could just go pawn the rifle or trade it in on a Rem 700 Sendero and not have these problems...
