Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

[Helmet]

Awhile back I was starting to see pressure signs with my 7mm08 using Hornady 162 BTHPs and 46gr of H4350. Lee shows that I can use between 45gr and 48gr. I started at 45gr and by 46.5gr I was starting to have real trouble lifting the bolt so I checked some other books. Turns out that the Lee minimum of 45gr is everyone elses max! Lee's Max of 48gr is 3gr higher than everybody else! No wonder I was seeing pressure. Glad I started low(max load).
From then on I started using more than one source. Some of the other data for H4350 in 7mm08 is also wrong for Lee.

 

[zuke]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

Did you tell LEE?

 

[insight3b]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

If you tell LEE they will try to find a way to blame you. Worst customer service I have ever experienced. Glad you are smart enough to use other sources and that you're ok

 

[Jumper]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

I think this was also in the Hodgdon's Website but has since been corrected. About a year ago on Feb 3rd I looked up and printed all the load data for 7mm-08 on Hogdgon's site and kept it around. For H4350 with a 160gr SPBT, min oal of 2.800" it listed the min as 43.0gr and max as 46.0. I worked up a load to 45.3gr's. On November 3rd, I went to the site and looked up the same data. Now it lists the prior start load as 40.9 and the max as 43.5gr. All the 162gr load data on Hodgdon's site is for a min OAL of 2.875" and is about 1gr more across the range.

I have since worked up a load with H4350 and the 162A-max to 46.0gr. Its warm but doesnt appear to be overpressure. I get 2600fps from a 22"bbl.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

My bolt started to get a little heavy at 46gr but nothing big. I wouldn't want to shoot the recommended max of 48gr though. Especially if I was loading them to mag length for a Remington. People who have done this have possibly thought that a 7mm08 had alot of power when really it just had alot of pressure.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<span style="font-style: italic">"Lee's Max of 48gr is 3gr higher than everybody else! No wonder I was seeing pressure. Glad I started low(max load)."</span>

Wonder if it might make any difference that your rifle (and "everybody else's") aren't the same? That IS the reason all manuals tell us to start low and only work up to book max unless we encounter signs of over pressure sooner you know. And Lee's max, nor anyone else's, is a 'reccomendation', it's just a recommendation of the absolute max.

Fact is, Lee doesn't test all that information; they get the published stuff from various bullet and powder makers who do their own testing before publication. Anyone expecting to find automatic BIBLE truth in any reloading manual is going to be disappointed, and maybe badly surprised too.

Develop a load correctly, that is do it as the books tell us to and everything will be cool. If we don't do it correctly no amount of reloading manuals can save us. ??

 

[JGorski]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

if you ever get a wild hair and want to try another powder, 41grs 2000MR works well for my 700 with 162AMAXs.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Develop a load correctly, that is do it as the books tell us to and everything will be cool. If we don't do it correctly no amount of reloading manuals can save us. ?? </div></div>I did what the book said and I did it correctly. Lee says to use between 45gr and 48gr. I started at 45gr. When Lee is listing the actual max load (45gr)as the minimum load I don't see how everything will be cool if I just trust them and not verify their info with other reloading manuals in case they made a mistake(which they did). If we don't have accurate data no amount of "doing it correctly" can save us. ??

 

[Helmet]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you ever get a wild hair and want to try another powder, 41grs 2000MR works well for my 700 with 162AMAXs. </div></div>That's actually a powder I find somewhat interesting. I think it gives some extra speed with some loads. Do you know how fast it's going?

 

[mwroseberry]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

I run 47.2g but I'm running it seated out at 2.905 OAL so unless you neck it out my powder charge isn't accurate for a factor load length. Are you running this in a bolt gun? If so how close are you to the lands?

Good luck,
Merritt

 

[Helmet]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mwroseberry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I run 47.2g but I'm running it seated out at 2.905 OAL so unless you neck it out my powder charge isn't accurate for a factor load length. Are you running this in a bolt gun? If so how close are you to the lands?

Good luck,
Merritt </div></div>I was only jumping them .010" in my Savage HS Precision(I put a 7mm08 Criterion barrel on it). At 46.5gr I was really having to put some effort into lifting the bolt. I also ruined my Nosler brass.
I know that you have gotten some good speeds with these and I think it is because you're running them kinda hot. I was actually thinking about sending you a PM about this. I know you've been doing this awhile so it must be alright, but my rifle would complain with that load. It wouldn't brake it, but it would complain.

A 162 Amax would have less pressure as there would be less in the case if it was the same jump.

 

[pwc001]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

I am 47.7 grains H4350, no pressure signs, I have seen people on here running 48 grains. I am using Nosler brass, CCI primers, and 162 Amax.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwc001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am 47.7 grains H4350, no pressure signs, I have seen people on here running 48 grains. I am using Nosler brass, CCI primers, and 162 Amax. </div></div>I haven't tried loading the 162 Amax that hot so I don't know if it would show near as much pressure. Other than that I don't know why it would produce more pressure in one rifle than another. Primers were loose in my brass after that so I had to toss em. You are using the same brass and primers as me so you must not be getting the same pressure. Why exactly I don't know, but I think there is a reason why most reloading books show a max of 45gr for this load.

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

"If we don't have accurate data no amount of "doing it correctly" can save us. "

You have accurate data, it's in the starting charge. Everything after that is up to the user so he had better do it correctly by knowing what the smell he's doing. You correctly recognised a problem and backed off; that's all any of us can do.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you ever get a wild hair and want to try another powder, 41grs 2000MR works well for my 700 with 162AMAXs. </div></div>That's actually a powder I find somewhat interesting. I think it gives some extra speed with some loads. Do you know how fast it's going? </div></div>

Alliant says 42grs is 2700, so 41grs. is what, 65-70fps less?

 

[pwc001]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwc001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am 47.7 grains H4350, no pressure signs, I have seen people on here running 48 grains. I am using Nosler brass, CCI primers, and 162 Amax. </div></div>I haven't tried loading the 162 Amax that hot so I don't know if it would show near as much pressure. Other than that I don't know why it would produce more pressure in one rifle than another. Primers were loose in my brass after that so I had to toss em. You are using the same brass and primers as me so you must not be getting the same pressure. Why exactly I don't know, but I think there is a reason why most reloading books show a max of 45gr for this load. </div></div>

I am running a Surgeon 591 and a Krieger 1-9 twist barrel, chambered by Roscoe, but I am not sure what the specs on the chamber are. I did not start high, but never got pressure signs and it shot good, so I stopped there. I am running out of room in the case.

 

[former naval person]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

And...powder lots vary. Sometimes significantly. That is why a lot of surplus military powder gets on the market...out of spec. They test it. Reject it if not right. I have a canister of new surplus 4895 that is 3 grains hotter than IMR and less speed to boot. Start low.

 

[JGorski]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And...powder lots vary. Sometimes significantly. That is why a lot of surplus military powder gets on the market...out of spec. They test it. Reject it if not right. I have a canister of new surplus 4895 that is 3 grains hotter than IMR and less speed to boot. Start low. </div></div>

Navy, maybe if your talking military surplus but I see no need to back down no more than 5% from max, especially with the slower burning powders. Former Air Force person.

 

[Helmet]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> by knowing what the smell he's doing.</div></div>LOL

 

[Helmet]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwc001</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArmchairElite</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: pwc001</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am 47.7 grains H4350, no pressure signs, I have seen people on here running 48 grains. I am using Nosler brass, CCI primers, and 162 Amax. </div></div>I haven't tried loading the 162 Amax that hot so I don't know if it would show near as much pressure. Other than that I don't know why it would produce more pressure in one rifle than another. Primers were loose in my brass after that so I had to toss em. You are using the same brass and primers as me so you must not be getting the same pressure. Why exactly I don't know, but I think there is a reason why most reloading books show a max of 45gr for this load. </div></div>

I am running a Surgeon 591 and a Krieger 1-9 twist barrel, chambered by Roscoe, but I am not sure what the specs on the chamber are. I did not start high, but never got pressure signs and it shot good, so I stopped there. I am running out of room in the case. </div></div>Weird. Obviously there is a reason why there is more pressure in my rifle but I don't know what it is. You can tell what is safe for your rifle. It would be too much for mine though.

 

[zuke]

Re: Bad Lee Info in 7mm08

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JGorski</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And...powder lots vary. Sometimes significantly. That is why a lot of surplus military powder gets on the market...out of spec. They test it. Reject it if not right. I have a canister of new surplus 4895 that is 3 grains hotter than IMR and less speed to boot. Start low. </div></div>

Navy, maybe if your talking military surplus but I see no need to back down no more than 5% from max, especially with the slower burning powders. Former Air Force person. </div></div>

And I'm sure he'll pick up on pressure sign's well before you do.