Ballistics tools for a beginner

fifdynutz

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Hi guys, im currently considering getting my feet wet in some PRS competition this year and I had some questions about tools of the trade. Currently for shooting/long range hunting i am utilizing a quality range finder, cheapo wind meter, a pair of leupold 8x hunting binos, local airport weather data, and the 4DOF app on my phone.

some routes im considering:

-get a quality pair of 12x binos and the hornady 4DOF kestrel 5700, while continuing to use my app, LRF, and dope cards

-get a pair of 10x sig kilo 3000BDX lrf binos and the kestrel 5700 elite with AB and switch to the applied ballisics setup. use the combo for dope/adjustments with cards if needed

-get a higher quality pair of binos and run the 5700 elite with ballistics and enter the ranges in manually (most all of the comps i'll be looking at will likely have known ranges)

-go to the first match with what ive got and learn what i need the hard way

Thanks in advance!
 

MDof2

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Option 4a) Good quality LRF paired with a 5700 Elite and go. Grab the AB App for your phone as well. Add a decent set of binos that would dual purpose, hunt/match/etc. use.
 
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fifdynutz

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is the AB stuff superior to the 4DOF system? ive never messed with it, but the 4DOF has done me really well for my loads using their projectiles. Not afraid of change though
 

6.5SH

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What you have is plenty to start with.
Try a few matches first, it will likely be more than a few before you discover where any of those are a shortcoming Vs. the fundamentals and match nerves.
 

TacticalDillhole

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  • Jun 26, 2012
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    is the AB stuff superior to the 4DOF system? ive never messed with it, but the 4DOF has done me really well for my loads using their projectiles. Not afraid of change though
    4DOF is great if you are shooting Hornady. You ever step outside of that I personally don’t find it as accurate. I’ve used everything I think and still mess with a bunch because I like to compare and analyze. AB is a great product and is available in many other products (garmin watch, rangefinders, PC version, kestrel, iOS and Android). So it’s got a robust support system. StrelokPro is awesome. BallisticsAE is decent. JBM ballistics is free and online. More advanced systems such as Coldbore and field firing solutions are also great but not for the faint of heart. There’s also TRASOL. Of all those I would steer you to AB or StrelokPro.
     

    MDof2

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    I don't know that AB is superior to 4DOF. I shoot a lot of (mostly?) Berger, and they get their numbers from Litz, and those plug straight into the Kestrel with PDM's so it was an easy decision/workflow for me.
    If all you shoot is Hornady, then 4DOF is probably sufficient. Lot of top shooters run 4DOF only. Nothing wrong with it. Ford v. Chev maybe?
     

    TacticalDillhole

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    I don't know that AB is superior to 4DOF. I shoot a lot of (mostly?) Berger, and they get their numbers from Litz, and those plug straight into the Kestrel with PDM's so it was an easy decision/workflow for me.
    If all you shoot is Hornady, then 4DOF is probably sufficient. Lot of top shooters run 4DOF only. Nothing wrong with it. Ford v. Chev maybe?
    For me, I just never spent the time with I did the others. It always seemed the app would break or I just didn’t care for the interface. So I’m fully willing to admit it’s a 9mm v 45 or ford v Chevy type of discussion.

    But I will contend that the kestrel 5700 with AB is a better value. The best part is you can still use 4DOF and have both.
     

    lowlight

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    You want to use Weaponized Math, you have no business using an App until you understand your data manually

    Weaponized Math is a simple way to dope ANY rifle with a 100 yard zero to 1000 yards. No inputs, no data to manage, just the previous yard X the multiplier will give you the next yard line

    Once you are successfully doped to 1000 yards, you can then use the data to true the software without mistakes. You build a track after you established your data not before.

    F672BBF4-AA38-4882-B0C1-95120AB651FE.jpeg


    I am mobile right now, but look up the weaponized math and never look back as this single page I just posted is an entire Ballistic computer on a single sheet of paper… we dope gravity not 12 different variables or more.
     

    fifdynutz

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    I will certainly take a look at that, and do some research. I can see how this is an excellent path to proper dope entry.

    have trued and verified my ballistic profiles on 4dof for a couple different rifles, even created/printed dope cards/rollers for quick hunting use (these have been quite consistent to 1k).
    Although i have to admit, its likely riddled with little mistakes and shortcuts.

    My main cause of concern is ive been using generalized weather variables and im trying to find the easiest way to learn to do this right (for the sake of shooting in different conditions). Currently stuck on deciding between fully committing to 4DOF and getting that specific kestrel, or switching to the elite kestrel and going with AB. Or maybe both are a waste for me right now and I just need to shoot more? LOL
     

    TacticalDillhole

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    I will certainly take a look at that, and do some research. I can see how this is an excellent path to proper dope entry.

    have trued and verified my ballistic profiles on 4dof for a couple different rifles, even created/printed dope cards/rollers for quick hunting use (these have been quite consistent to 1k).
    Although i have to admit, its likely riddled with little mistakes and shortcuts.

    My main cause of concern is ive been using generalized weather variables and im trying to find the easiest way to learn to do this right (for the sake of shooting in different conditions). Currently stuck on deciding between fully committing to 4DOF and getting that specific kestrel, or switching to the elite kestrel and going with AB. Or maybe both are a waste for me right now and I just need to shoot more? LOL
    I cant recommend enough how valuable actual instruction from someone like @lowlight is. It will help you figure things out. Make the trip to CO.

    also as I suggested above, get the kestrel with AB. the weather side of it will communicate with 4DOF on your phone which is free. Now you have both and a weather meter. But like lowlight said, the app should be trued to your rifle not the other way around.
     
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    Lawnboi

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    I’d put a chronograph up there as a tool that makes getting shit figured out way faster. Especially getting a baseline and understanding what’s happening to your ammo with temperature swings and over time.

    Food for thought, those electronics won’t help you for squat if you’re putting in bad data.
     

    fifdynutz

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    I do have a chrony and completed load development for most of my setups. I do, however, need to track temperature sensitivity and how it's affecting my speeds. I typically develop my hunting loads in the climate I use them in and leave it at that.
     

    AIKNOWU

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    Do you have a rifle?
    If you've got a competitive rifle (16+lbs, 6-6.5mm short action, HD glass, <1moa), good quality bullets (Berger, Sierra, Hornady in that order), a GameChanger, and trigger time, you've got everything you need to shoot with steady improvement for several seasons without needing any of those items you posted.

    - You can spot with $200 8x binos on a tripod just fine
    - You'll find more consistency by using the same lot of bullets for multiple matches than anything on your list can provide
    - You can ask for density altitude from squadmates, and plug that into your 4DOF. Literally everybody has a Kestrel. Save $800 and use theirs.
    - Determine wind calls by how the wind feels on your body and what it looks like downrange while you spot other shooters' shots.
    - Take notes.

    I promise that if you can't be competitive at club matches with the above, it's not due to your equipment.

    Hi guys, im currently considering getting my feet wet in some PRS competition this year and I had some questions about tools of the trade. Currently for shooting/long range hunting i am utilizing a quality range finder, cheapo wind meter, a pair of leupold 8x hunting binos, local airport weather data, and the 4DOF app on my phone.

    some routes im considering:

    -get a quality pair of 12x binos and the hornady 4DOF kestrel 5700, while continuing to use my app, LRF, and dope cards

    -get a pair of 10x sig kilo 3000BDX lrf binos and the kestrel 5700 elite with AB and switch to the applied ballisics setup. use the combo for dope/adjustments with cards if needed

    -get a higher quality pair of binos and run the 5700 elite with ballistics and enter the ranges in manually (most all of the comps i'll be looking at will likely have known ranges)

    -go to the first match with what ive got and learn what i need the hard way

    Thanks in advance
     
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    fifdynutz

    Pasture Poodle
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    That was definitely in the back of my mind, I have everything listed there and feel I'm probably more prepared than I think. Thank you