Night Vision Bare minimum Thermal scope and mono recommendation

[shoots100]

It's the same old question I've been asked and see here asked ad nauseum, What thermal optic(s) would you recommend for someone on a budget ?
This is the golden age of thermal and while I don't like supporting foreign adversaries , the far east manufacturers are really putting out some great optics for every budget.
My answer to the budget optic recommendation is that affordable doesn't mean viable.
Low budget crappy optics are just that, Crap.
You can't see shit with them , they use internal or outdated battery power sources and the specs are terrible.
While I'm not sponsored by any manufacturer, I've been buying, testing and using budget thermal scopes and monocular's for use as back up and loaner optics to aid in predator elimination on several cattle farms, hunting preserves and small family farms in my area.
Real field use in varying weather conditions and with many different people of varying expertise using them.
Some who know how to use them and some who've never looked through or operated a thermal a second of their life.
My current backup scope and monocular are viable optics with bare minimum features and specs that will get the job done, use the same removable power source and are easy to operate.
Both have 5 years warranties, 384 Res , 50 Hz, 12um pixel pitch, sub 25 Mk with nice sized display screens.
These optics don't have crappy postage stamp sized display screens that are recessed in the eye piece.
You look into them and the image is right there.

Scope- Rix L3 384 resolution with Ocular zoom, removable 18650 battery, mounted in a quality QD mount -$2,300 shipped

Mono- AGM Seeker 15-384 with removable 18650 battery - $1,195 shipped

Both come with 2 batteries and chargers.

Both have a lot of features and the ability to shut those features off.

For under $3,500 you'll be able to spot & engage targets with confidence and rule the night.

There are other scopes and mono's that are cheaper, but they suck balls and your throwing your money down the drain if your not going to spend it on decent optics.
Your not going to get a new decent useable resolution thermal scope or mono for $500, so stop asking.
Same with 640 res optics.
Your going to have to sell a kidney or sell one of the kids if you want to go the 640 res route and maybe two kids if you want to buy American optics.

SJC

 

[LeadBreakfast]

Personally, not a fan of chinese, especially when it comes to something like a thermal core - or thermal optics in general.

I will agree that we are absolutely in a golden age of thermal right now which has both upsides and downsides.

 

[wigwamitus]

There are really only two Chinese core manufacturers out there Yentai-Iray and Wuhan Global Sensors. Cores from both were banned in USA by the State and Treasury Departments on 1 May 2024, though AFAICT have never been enforced. Not sure why that is.
All the Chinese thermals use one of those "APEX" cores ... and almost all thermals under $5k are Chinese (FLIR Breach is exception), no matter what the brand name, including brands like "Lieca", "Steiner" etc. A few brands are 95% chinese parts with a few non-chinese parts thrown in, like Pulsar (mostly all chinese but a few models have a non-chinese part or two), Sig (same).

So picking over the chinese thermals is just picking a different brand name, with the same stuff underneath. Chinese love brand name proliferation. How many products do you see on Amazon that are the same chinese product with a different brand name ? Answer? Many, Many, Many (most).

So pick your favorite chinese brand name and get to it !!!

 

[brazz04]

Old post, but simple answer. Spend as much or as little as you’d like, but get anything that has a QD mount. Then you only need one device. Put a reference point on your rail to snap the scope back on when you’re ready to shoot. I would never own a monocular, kind of an antiquated tool when quality QD thermal mounts exist.

 

[LeadBreakfast]

There are really only two Chinese core manufacturers out there Yentai-Iray and Wuhan Global Sensors. Cores from both were banned in USA by the State and Treasury Departments on 1 May 2024, though AFAICT have never been enforced. Not sure why that is.
All the Chinese thermals use one of those "APEX" cores ... and almost all thermals under $5k are Chinese (FLIR Breach is exception), no matter what the brand name, including brands like "Lieca", "Steiner" etc. A few brands are 95% chinese parts with a few non-chinese parts thrown in, like Pulsar (mostly all chinese but a few models have a non-chinese part or two), Sig (same).

So picking over the chinese thermals is just picking a different brand name, with the same stuff underneath. Chinese love brand name proliferation. How many products do you see on Amazon that are the same chinese product with a different brand name ? Answer? Many, Many, Many (most).

So pick your favorite chinese brand name and get to it !!!

AFAIK Pulsar uses BAE and Lynred sensors, perhaps you have knowledge to the contrary?

 

[shoots100]

Old post, but simple answer. Spend as much or as little as you’d like, but get anything that has a QD mount. Then you only need one device. Put a reference point on your rail to snap the scope back on when you’re ready to shoot. I would never own a monocular, kind of an antiquated tool when quality QD thermal mounts exist.

First thing I make sure is packed before heading out is the monocular and I wouldn't hunt without it.
Only took my buddy one hunt before he bought a monocular.
While he was fumbling trying to mount his scope I dropped a dog.
SJC

 

[wigwamitus]

AFAIK Pulsar uses BAE and Lynred sensors, perhaps you have knowledge to the contrary?

Yup. But realize, the "sensor" is stuck on to the front end of the core, between the lens and the core. So "sensor" != "core".

 

[LeadBreakfast]

Yup. But realize, the "sensor" is stuck on to the front end of the core, between the lens and the core. So "sensor" != "core".

After a search, @DopeMan stated differently to you previously on this site.

Either someone has an axe to grind, is lying, or is repeating lies. I'd love to know the truth.

I've never seen anything about China on any of the Pulsar products I've handled.

 

[CTM1]

Old post, but simple answer. Spend as much or as little as you’d like, but get anything that has a QD mount. Then you only need one device. Put a reference point on your rail to snap the scope back on when you’re ready to shoot. I would never own a monocular, kind of an antiquated tool when quality QD thermal mounts exist.

Antiquated tool? One of the most prolific yote hunters on the board places a greater emphasis on the monocular than on the scope.

 

[ggmanning]

I use my monocular far more than my scopes or clipons. I'm on the monocular all the time and on the scopes long enough to shoot. I don't want to be trying to stick the device I'm using to shoot on the gun when I need to shoot. If I had only one device I'd leave it on the gun and use it to scan on the gun. To each his own. Many times I take a shot within seconds after spotting the dog with the monocular and lots of times they come out close and I don't have time to be fumbling attaching something to my gun......even at distance they have moved a good bit in a short time and you are blind while you try and attach it back to the gun.

 

[brazz04]

Say what you will a monocular will never come with me. I would buy a better quality QD thermal all day every day. It takes a second or two to mount back on the rifle. I promise you have a few seconds while hunting to attach a scope, saying otherwise is just nonsense.

 

[LeadBreakfast]

Say what you will a monocular will never come with me. I would buy a better quality QD thermal all day every day. It takes a second or two to mount back on the rifle. I promise you have a few seconds while hunting to attach a scope, saying otherwise is just nonsense.

Respectfully disagree.

 

[ggmanning]

You really have no idea how many very experienced "night hunters" of all kinds of targets you are dealing with on the hide do you?

Just like the all too common one suppressor for everything mistake it's typical of the inexperienced, uninformed or poor. Nothing wrong with either, I've been all three. Just don't try and sell that kind of ignorance to a collective that knows better.

 

[wigwamitus]

Either someone has an axe to grind, is lying, or is repeating lies. I'd love to know the truth.

Yup, keep digging !!!

 

[smcfarland]

Respectfully disagree.

Me, too.

 

[LeadBreakfast]

Yup, keep digging !!!

Care to expound upon this? I'd love to see facts from anyone.

 

[Magsz18]

Say what you will a monocular will never come with me. I would buy a better quality QD thermal all day every day. It takes a second or two to mount back on the rifle. I promise you have a few seconds while hunting to attach a scope, saying otherwise is just nonsense.

To each their own.

I strongly disagree with you.

The last thing that I want to do in the dark is try and find the same picatinny slot to stick my thermal back onto after i've pulled it off of my rifle in order to take a shot that could no longer be a viable shot because I was dicking with said thermal.

I guarantee the following.

If you were to set up a drill where you have one shooter using a QD thermal weaponsight as a scanner and rifle sight versus another dude with a handheld monocular and a dedicated weapon sight. I guarantee that the guy using the monocular would be faster and more consistent EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Why would anyone set out to make their life less efficient?

Lastly, I can guarantee with 99% certainty that people hunting for a living or doing this at a more serious pace than the average joe, all use monoculars for scanning and dedicated rifle sights.

 

[smcfarland]

Gonna throw myself out there on this one. I am not an expert or a professional. I don’t get paid to kill pigs or varmints, and have spent a shit ton of money over the years trying out equipment to be more effective and efficient at killing pigs, coyotes, and raccoons after dark. I am blessed with a family ranch running cattle in West Texas and have hunting access to around 1500 acres. I and people I invite out (not paid, usually friends and their kids) kill on average 75 pigs and 10+ coyotes and raccoons per year. I’ve killed personally well over 1k pigs over 40 years of hard hunting when I can in my lifetime. I have no axe to grind in this discussion. I have no monetary benefit in making my recommendations. Just lessons learned and the ability to provide some perspective for those following in my footsteps. If I had to start all over again spending my money I would do this in order of priority:
1. 640 handheld scanner. Detection is king. If you know it’s there you can walk up close enough and shoot it in the face with a brief white light and red dot. I have walked 800m through a deep muddy field thinking pigs were at the end to kill, only realizing as I got close that it was jackrabbits. Resolution matters here, especially if you are inexperienced.
2. DTNVGs. I’ve got thousands of hours driving around with 7s and 14s in military in combat and training and they suck. Spent lots of money on high spec DTNVGs and it’s an absolute game changer. Can hunt for hours on end without headaches or eye fatigue. With illum I can typically see animals in fields (THIS IS OPEN COUNTRY WEST TEXAS, NOT FORESTED COUNTRY) well before I need to grab the thermal. I also typically hunt out of my 4Runner, which is WAY more comfortable and carries more shit than using a Ranger or 4 wheeler. Thermal doesn’t work through glass (but does in side mirrors with windows open!) so NVGs work best for ME. If I was dismounted or in an open air (no windshield buggy) I might consider a helmet mounted thermal here instead.
3. IR laser. I’ve used military grade units but in my experience some of the Airsoft shit is good enough and worth the cost savings. Just have to understand the need to zero EVERY TIME you go out. Way too many experiences of pigs/coyotes popping up out of nowhere and they’re gone into cover before the thermal powers up. Lasers and NODS are QUICK. Before my buddy’s thermal is powered up the pig/coyote is dead. I can replace a $200 airsoft laser every year for ten years before I’m into a grey market unit, or a DBAL D2 that spooks critters within 150m.
4. Clip on or dedicated optic WITH RF. Shit looks different at night. Have hunted my family property for 40+ years and still occasionally get lost on landmarks with NVGs and thermals. Coyotes and pigs don’t stay still for long. Bonus if can synch up or calibrate with your ballistic solver.

That’s what I’ve learned over the years and the recommendation I typically give people starting out. This is what works for ME, and your situation may be different, but should give you some things to consider before you spend your hard earned cash. I like to pick one big item that will be a functional upgrade for me and save up to purchase each year. Good luck out there.

 

[Coyote777]

To each their own.

I strongly disagree with you.

The last thing that I want to do in the dark is try and find the same picatinny slot to stick my thermal back onto after i've pulled it off of my rifle in order to take a shot that could no longer be a viable shot because I was dicking with said thermal.

I guarantee the following.

If you were to set up a drill where you have one shooter using a QD thermal weaponsight as a scanner and rifle sight versus another dude with a handheld monocular and a dedicated weapon sight. I guarantee that the guy using the monocular would be faster and more consistent EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Why would anyone set out to make their life less efficient?

Lastly, I can guarantee with 99% certainty that people hunting for a living or doing this at a more serious pace than the average joe, all use monoculars for scanning and dedicated rifle sights.

Bingo!