I’m starting to play around with rimfire elr.
Has anyone tried an adjustable barrel tuner ,like in rimfire bench shooting, to tighten groups up?
Has anyone tried an adjustable barrel tuner ,like in rimfire bench shooting, to tighten groups up?
Irish, hope all is going well on your end. Have been mulling over this tuner business for long range awhile now. Have been shooting mid grade ammo or worse with ES about 30, and on a tight budget. Setting a tuner to give a pure vertical group at 50 yds, of 0.2-0.4” is reproducible, with the slower round hitting higher. Running some MV’s through a ballistic solver gives: 50 yds-0.1” vertical for a tune at 100, 50 yds-0.5” vertical for 1.9” vertical at 300 and 5” vertical at 400 and 11.5” vertical at 500. This with ES of 30. ES of 15 would Cut this dramatically, thus 50 yd vertical of 0.25 which is realistically achievable would give Vertical of: 100-.35”, 200-zero, 300-0.95”, 400-2.5”, 500-5.75”. The package to do so would not require a long barrel and a heavy tuner, thus would not need to be unwieldy, based on what I have found lately. Usefulness in PRS competitions would depend on target sizes at distances, and best strategy to maximize points. It might be that 2 separate tuner settings would cover the gamut of distances, and as easily as dialing elevation assuming time-pressure would allow it. Obviously we wish for the holy grail of zero ES in a round that a gun “likes”, but meanwhile perhaps these calculations will be of some use. All the best, Seymourhttps://www.snipershide.com/shootin...pened-tuner-range-report.227953/#post-7393968
This is the url for the old tuner report from 2014. The pic is a 5 shot group at 100y with the tuner attached using Eley black which that rifle did not necessarily prefer. The Rem shot best with Center X or Wolf MX. That group measured about 1/4" at 100y. The tuner worked great.
If you have a trailing locking nut behind the suppressor you can rotate the suppressor in and out along the muzzle threads then tighten it down using the locking nut. It’s the same idea as the Tubb ATR muzzle brake.Itd be cool If someone came up w/ a tunable supressor. One that you could add a lockable section or sleeves even that adjusted the weight up/down...
Aaron Hipp releases one just in the last month. I bought one for my 5/8x24 and will soon get one for my 1/2x28I have only 1 issue with all these tuners... Why can't anyone make one that simply threads onto 1/2-28 and adjusts from there? With the popularity of threaded barrels (and now especially in the mid range market where tuning should really help) I can't believe nobody has capitalized on it.
I'll admit I only spent about 30 minutes searching before I gave up. Just kept getting references back to the same 4 tuners that are all clamp-on bore to fit.
I have only 1 issue with all these tuners... Why can't anyone make one that simply threads onto 1/2-28 and adjusts from there? With the popularity of threaded barrels (and now especially in the mid range market where tuning should really help) I can't believe nobody has capitalized on it.
I'll admit I only spent about 30 minutes searching before I gave up. Just kept getting references back to the same 4 tuners that are all clamp-on bore to fit.
or if you want something a bit easier to clean...
Tactical Tuner Brake for AR15
7/8 x 1/2 x 28 thread 2 port design exits gas out the side of the brake Tunes rifle to the ammo for improved accuracyharrellsprec.com
It "might" be true, but I haven't found it to be true on rifles I've worked with as of this moment. Rather, I haven't found a tuner to be a detriment at distance.Is it true that the tuners are tuned to specific ranges? I was considering a tuner, but I'm shooting at targets from 25-400yards.
Is it true that the tuners are tuned to specific ranges? I was considering a tuner, but I'm shooting at targets from 25-400yards.
Unless I'm given a very solid reason why this is the case, I refuse to believe it. From a physics stand point, the moment the projectile is no longer in contact with the rifle system (harmonics, gas escaping the bore, etc), it is following a balistic arc.
If it is more consistent at 100 yards, it MUST have been consistent at 50 to get there, and correspondingly will be in a more predictable spot at 150.
The only way this could be true is if a tuner somehow imbued some sort of voodoo on the bullet that makes it more accurate up close, but destabilizes it after some range.
I call bullshit.
WHAT A TUNER DOES.... It is possible to "Tune" a rifle barrel so that where it is pointing at bullet exit time will compensate for small variations of muzzle velocity. In the "tuned" condition the slower bullets are launched at a slightly higher angle than the faster bullets. The difference in launch angle can allow the slower bullets to hit the target at the same elevation as the faster bullets. That is the simple explanation and now the details.
TUNING & DISTANCE....
Here is a chart that shows the 100 yard trajectory of a 22LR 40 gr bullets with a BC of 0.128 and an average muzzle velocity of 1050 fps. It is assumed that the actual velocity varies from 1040 to 1060 fps with the vertical tuned out. The first case (bottom curves) is where the vertical is tuned out at 50 yards. In this case the vertical at 100 yards is 7.79-7.46 or 0.33”. The rifle is not in tune for 100 yards.
In the second case the vertical is tuned out at 100 yards. But in this case the vertical at 50 yards is 3.89-3.73 or 0.16”.
Anyone can calculate this for their rifle & ammo using free ballistic software. For small variations is muzzle velocity a 22LR rifle in tune at 50 yards is NOT in tune at 100 yards.
Barrel harmonics are real, both in centerfire and rimfire. All the wiggly barrel slides a few posts prior do affect bullet trajectory. Adjusting for 22lr caliber with it's huge MV spreads with a tuner is an interesting experiment I've had fun and frustration with the past few years. Tuners do work, verification of work here at post #501 https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/6x5-thread-v4-0-new-1-1-20.6253073/page-11#post-7801509
From Varmint al's website on the 22 tuner page http://www.varmintal.comwww.varmintal.com/a22lr.htm
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YepIs it true that the tuners are tuned to specific ranges? I was considering a tuner, but I'm shooting at targets from 25-400yards.
You don’t understand the concept of positive compensation. If you wish enlightenment, go to the Varmint Al websiteUnless I'm given a very solid reason why this is the case, I refuse to believe it. From a physics stand point, the moment the projectile is no longer in contact with the rifle system (harmonics, gas escaping the bore, etc), it is following a balistic arc.
If it is more consistent at 100 yards, it MUST have been consistent at 50 to get there, and correspondingly will be in a more predictable spot at 150.
The only way this could be true is if a tuner somehow imbued some sort of voodoo on the bullet that makes it more accurate up close, but destabilizes it after some range.
I call bullshit.
@orkan:Remember not to cut off your nose to spite your face, however.
In my experience, having a tuner is required for getting that 50yd performance the very best. The performance at 100, 200, and 300yds with that same tuner setting is almost always better than without a tuner.
I believe so, as I've never had a rifle that shot well at all, that didn't shoot better with a tuner.Interesting. Can the exceptions to "better than without a tuner" be predicted?
You don’t understand the concept of positive compensation. If you wish enlightenment, go to the Varmint Al website
Seems a plausible explanation.Thanks for the info. I misunderstood a tuner as functioning by making sure the bullets left in a smaller 3d cone of fire, and not as ensuring that slow projections are shot at a higher arc than the faster ones.
So if in understanding this corectly, a tuner set for say 600 yards could overcompensate at 100 by causing the slow projectiles to be too high relative to the fast ones, thereby increasing vertical spread?
Following that logic, if you set your tuner to your closest engagement distance, again say 100, you could be overcompensating inside of that, but outside it would be less ideal that if set for that distance, but still an improvement over a bare muzzle?
Thanks for the info. I misunderstood a tuner as functioning by making sure the bullets left in a smaller 3d cone of fire, and not as ensuring that slow projections are shot at a higher arc than the faster ones.
So if in understanding this corectly, a tuner set for say 600 yards could overcompensate at 100 by causing the slow projectiles to be too high relative to the fast ones, thereby increasing vertical spread?
Following that logic, if you set your tuner to your closest engagement distance, again say 100, you could be overcompensating inside of that, but outside it would be less ideal that if set for that distance, but still an improvement over a bare muzzle?
What tuner are you using ?Lots of improvement to be had with a tuner, IF you are shooting small enough to begin with. Taking groups from the .3's and getting consistent .2's with not infrequent .1's is a very big improvement which can typically be seen with tuners. Tuners typically won't make a rifle shooting in the .5's shoot in the .2's.
How much accuracy gain is there in .22? Honestly, this seems like way more effort than it is worth TO ME... that said, I typically just shoot ccisv, am happy with the half inch ish groups I get with it, and use it to train myself more than to try and chase tiny groups.
That or I'm playing around with it at long, and carried ranges, chasing the wind around generaly having fun with it.
The only reason I want to start shooting better ammo is to get the verticals down, and that's to be able to hold tight enough to play around at range, not really to try and bug eye things. To be quite honest, everyone I know who shoots has been pretty amazed at what this .22 can do as it is lol. My family is a bunch of minute if deer good old boys.
Not to mention, if I'm going through all this effort to nail down the .22 to perfection to chase groupsat a fixed range, spending 15c a pop on centex x... why not shoot the .223? .22 elr is it's own beast with trying to superman the wind, but I'm sure not setting a tuner for 300.
/end rant
Harrell as well as a few others.What tuner are you using ?
Anyone tried the kinetic solution on a rimfire ? Seems like an interesting design.