Bartlein Barrels Update

[Cr1775]

I wasn't talking about gunsmithing work.

Someone has to cut the chamber. Probably the most important part of the whole operation.
And honestly how many prefits check out on a go ,no go without screwing around a bunch if at all. I got a few Proof that don't i just size accordingly.
But saying that the man at Bartlein does a fine job.

 

[Supersubes]

Someone has to cut the chamber. Probably the most important part of the whole operation.
And honestly how many prefits check out on a go ,no go without screwing around a bunch if at all. I got a few Proof that don't i just size accordingly.
But saying that the man at Bartlein does a fine job.

I think you’re missing the point of this thread.

 

[Cr1775]

I think you’re missing the point of this thread.

But you said i was doing something wrong?

 

[Supersubes]

But you said i was doing something wrong?

 

[kyotekiller25]

I'll get my Bartlein in a week straight from bugholes, it only took a year and a half of waiting for it to get in stock, and was the last 1 in stock, but I finally got it ordered today

.224" 29"/8 twist heavy varmint for a 223 build. Can't wait to get it going!

 

[Dolomite]

I'll get my Bartlein in a week straight from bugholes, it only took a year and a half of waiting for it to get in stock, and was the last 1 in stock, but I finally got it ordered today

.224" 29"/8 twist heavy varmint for a 223 build. Can't wait to get it going!

Bartlein and Bugholes the perfect combination. I don’t think the back log is the issue it’s my indecisiveness as to what caliber twist rate and barrel contour I want next. 224 or 6mm, what caliber 6mm, slow or fast twist, M24 MTU HV or straight 1.250, and then comes length, 24, 26, 28? All I know is I want a bartlien. So many decisions

 

[LawTalker]

I just got a rifle back from a manufacturer [who uses Bartlein barrels], there was a defect that required the rifle to be rebarreled. It took about 16 weeks to sort it out and get it back to me, I was told that was the lead time with Bartlein to get the barrel and do the rebarreling. It hits where I want it to hit and it seems okay so far. I'll know more over the next few trips to the range.

If somebody has a back up of 16 weeks of work then they're probably doing something right to be in that sort of demand.

 

[Supersubes]

I just got a rifle back from a manufacturer [who uses Bartlein barrels], there was a defect that required the rifle to be rebarreled. It took about 16 weeks to sort it out and get it back to me, I was told that was the lead time with Bartlein to get the barrel and do the rebarreling. It hits where I want it to hit and it seems okay so far. I'll know more over the next few trips to the range.

If somebody has a back up of 16 weeks of work then they're probably doing something right to be in that sort of demand.

16 weeks on a warranty return barrel. Their backlog for a newly ordered barrel is far in excess of 16 weeks last I checked, probably closer to double that.

 

[Huskydriver]

16 weeks on a warranty return barrel. Their backlog for a newly ordered barrel is far in excess of 16 weeks last I checked, probably closer to double that.

It's like 2 years haha

 

[LawTalker]

16 weeks on a warranty return barrel. Their backlog for a newly ordered barrel is far in excess of 16 weeks last I checked, probably closer to double that.

Suffice to say, I was fairly pissed at paying $6,000 for a new rifle that went down and became non-serviceable due to a defectively manufactured barrel after less than 50 rounds, but I was pleased with how the company handled the warranty return and what they did to make the situation right. It happens, nothing is perfect, but they sort it out. It also helped that my gunsmith was on the phone with the president of the gun manufacturer explaining the situation and conveying, "my guy is fairly pissed by all of this and isn't pleased with the situation" and they conveyed to Bartlein, "get us the barrel ASAP."

Hell, I just had a Leupold Mark 4 scope fail [for the third time] and Leupold told me, "we verified your scope is out of spec, we have checked the file, it failed like this twice before, we are going to replace it under warranty, but this particular model was discontinued, which current production model do you want?" so I got a new Mark 5HD without any argument or hassle.

As long as we're not talking about seat-belts, parachutes, airbags, helmets, or the like, a certain amount of things can fail, be replaced, and life goes on.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Suffice to say, I was fairly pissed at paying $6,000 for a new rifle that went down and became non-serviceable due to a defectively manufactured barrel after less than 50 rounds, but I was pleased with how the company handled the warranty return and what they did to make the situation right. It happens, nothing is perfect, but they sort it out. It also helped that my gunsmith was on the phone with the president of the gun manufacturer explaining the situation and conveying, "my guy is fairly pissed by all of this and isn't pleased with the situation" and they conveyed to Bartlein, "get us the barrel ASAP."

Hell, I just had a Leupold Mark 4 scope fail [for the third time] and Leupold told me, "we verified your scope is out of spec, we have checked the file, it failed like this twice before, we are going to replace it under warranty, but this particular model was discontinued, which current production model do you want?" so I got a new Mark 5HD without any argument or hassle.

As long as we're not talking about seat-belts, parachutes, airbags, helmets, or the like, a certain amount of things can fail, be replaced, and life goes on.

What was wrong with the barrel? You'd think if that was the issue, they'd have noticed it before they built the rifle??? Maybe not I guess, but I'm curious.

 

[Huskydriver]

Suffice to say, I was fairly pissed at paying $6,000 for a new rifle that went down and became non-serviceable due to a defectively manufactured barrel after less than 50 rounds, but I was pleased with how the company handled the warranty return and what they did to make the situation right. It happens, nothing is perfect, but they sort it out. It also helped that my gunsmith was on the phone with the president of the gun manufacturer explaining the situation and conveying, "my guy is fairly pissed by all of this and isn't pleased with the situation" and they conveyed to Bartlein, "get us the barrel ASAP."

Hell, I just had a Leupold Mark 4 scope fail [for the third time] and Leupold told me, "we verified your scope is out of spec, we have checked the file, it failed like this twice before, we are going to replace it under warranty, but this particular model was discontinued, which current production model do you want?" so I got a new Mark 5HD without any argument or hassle.

As long as we're not talking about seat-belts, parachutes, airbags, helmets, or the like, a certain amount of things can fail, be replaced, and life goes on.

Eww gross . 6k rifle and you put a turd on top... Who made the rifle and how did you determine it was the barrels fault?

 

[LawTalker]

Eww gross . 6k rifle and you put a turd on top... Who made the rifle and how did you determine it was the barrels fault?

Nemo rifle, my gunsmith scoped the barrel and found the chamber was gouged and surmised it occurred because somebody began to ream the barrel, stopped, took the bit out, then resumed reaming, went back in, and a metal shaving got in front of the bit and gouged the chamber. It caused a situation where a part of the rim of the empty cartridge would often catch in the gouge and then fail to extract or eject, although the extractor is damn strong and it was ripping part of the case rim trying to force the extraction of the lodged casings. Eventually it simply resulted in a jammed casing stuck in the chamber.

Gunsmith coordinated to send it back to Nemo, who promptly said, "this barrel was manufactured defectively."

So my gunsmith said it was a defectively manufactured barrel and the manufacturer said so as well, that's good enough for me.

I guess everybody has their opinions on scopes.

 

[TheOE800]

Nemo rifle, my gunsmith scoped the barrel and found the chamber was gouged and surmised it occurred because somebody began to ream the barrel, stopped, took the bit out, then resumed reaming, went back in, and a metal shaving got in front of the bit and gouged the chamber.

Forgive my ignorance - this is a workmanship defect in the process of chambering the rifle by Nemo or their sub(s), not in the manufacturing/rifling of the barrel by Bartlein, is that correct?

 

[LawTalker]

Forgive my ignorance - this is a workmanship defect in the process of chambering the rifle by Nemo or their sub(s), not in the manufacturing/rifling of the barrel by Bartlein, is that correct?

I believe the issue was in the reaming/chambering of the rifle by Nemo or their sub, not by Bartlein. They (Nemo) called it a barrel defect, which I guess encompasses reaming after it left the original manufacturer. I don't believe it was anything on Bartlein's end. Whoever did the reaming didn't do it correctly. I know virtually nothing about reaming or chambering a barrel, but I have to wonder why somebody would start reaming, stop part of the way through, withdraw the bit, and then resume. I was under the impression that when you get going with a chamber reamer, you go all the way through until you are done, you don't start, stop, withdraw, and resume. Barrel manufacturing and machine shop stuff is way out of my wheel house.

 

[Milf Dots]

Forgive my ignorance - this is a workmanship defect in the process of chambering the rifle by Nemo or their sub(s), not in the manufacturing/rifling of the barrel by Bartlein, is that correct?

Good point- Nemo's employee screwed up and not Bartlein.

 

[Huskydriver]

Nemo rifle, my gunsmith scoped the barrel and found the chamber was gouged and surmised it occurred because somebody began to ream the barrel, stopped, took the bit out, then resumed reaming, went back in, and a metal shaving got in front of the bit and gouged the chamber. It caused a situation where a part of the rim of the empty cartridge would often catch in the gouge and then fail to extract or eject, although the extractor is damn strong and it was ripping part of the case rim trying to force the extraction of the lodged casings. Eventually it simply resulted in a jammed casing stuck in the chamber.

Gunsmith coordinated to send it back to Nemo, who promptly said, "this barrel was manufactured defectively."

So my gunsmith said it was a defectively manufactured barrel and the manufacturer said so as well, that's good enough for me.

I guess everybody has their opinions on scopes.

Nemos are also garbage but I digress. Glad to here nemo is taking care of you

 

[LawTalker]

Nemos are also garbage but I digress. Glad to here nemo is taking care of you

That is a bit of digression.

You've pooped on my scope as a "turd" and now NEMO is "garbage." Not to digress, but either you know some things I don't know, or you're angling for a game of "my stuff is king of the dung hill, your stuff blows ass."

I do have an LWRC REPR 20 [mk 1] with a Nightforce ATACR, hopefully that isn't garbage topped with a turd.

I would guess there is a NEMO thread on the semi-auto section we could take that discussion to. I have some gripes with the NEMO but I have to say it is extremely accurate, with virtually no felt recoil, and when it is working, it is solid.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Good point- the gunsmith screwed up and not Bartlein.

Yeah that's why I asked. Sounded kind of weird but that's what pretty much all of the smith's who have something go wrong say, so I kind of figured that. If there's a barrel issue (which does happen from time to time but it's rare), then if it's a decent smith they will slug it before they do anything and know, or at least see if before they put the rifle together and send it to the customer.

 

[LawTalker]

Good point- the gunsmith screwed up and not Bartlein.

You mean Nemo's gunsmith/employee, the one who reamed the barrel, not my gunsmith who diagnosed the problem when I brought in the rifle. All my gunsmith did was scope the barrel, diagnose the problem, and coordinate the return to the manufacturer [Nemo].

 

[Frank Green]

I just got a rifle back from a manufacturer [who uses Bartlein barrels], there was a defect that required the rifle to be rebarreled. It took about 16 weeks to sort it out and get it back to me, I was told that was the lead time with Bartlein to get the barrel and do the rebarreling. It hits where I want it to hit and it seems okay so far. I'll know more over the next few trips to the range.

If somebody has a back up of 16 weeks of work then they're probably doing something right to be in that sort of demand.

If it was something we did on the barrel itself we should've tried and turned it faster than that for ya. Sorry! If it was something other like gunsmith ordered the wrong contour or fitting mess up....about as fast as we can do it.

We are basically 8-9 months out.

The amount of emergency requests we've been getting for test barrels for the last several months has been pretty much off the charts.

Had to be on a conference call with the Gov't 2-3 weeks ago. My quote for they're last order of 16 weeks wasn't good enough. They where going to be out of test barrels in less than 4 weeks for one caliber. So guess what.... requote the order and we had to get them done in less than four weeks! All most all of the orders we are getting from the gov't have defense priority ratings on them.

I'll also say this.... not just the gun market but a lot of places haven't recovered from covid / riot year of 2020. That's no B.S.!

One of the guys here is having a standby generator hooked up to his house. The electric company came out last week and told him he needed a new meter put in. He said fine... get it done... they told him they are back ordered 1.5 years because of parts and going back to covid!

 

[babyguppy]

" back ordered 1.5 years because of parts and going back to covid!"
Have your buddy call SRP in Phoenix, AZ. SRP is tossing all the manual meters and putting in 'smart' meters.
they should be able to get a 100,000k meters cheap. Those manual ones run for over a 100 years; smart ones not so much.

Must be all those 6ARCs the gov wants lol

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

If it was something we did on the barrel itself we should've tried and turned it faster than that for ya. Sorry! If it was something other like gunsmith ordered the wrong contour or fitting mess up....about as fast as we can do it.

We are basically 8-9 months out.

The amount of emergency requests we've been getting for test barrels for the last several months has been pretty much off the charts.

Had to be on a conference call with the Gov't 2-3 weeks ago. My quote for they're last order of 16 weeks wasn't good enough. They where going to be out of test barrels in less than 4 weeks for one caliber. So guess what.... requote the order and we had to get them done in less than four weeks! All most all of the orders we are getting from the gov't have defense priority ratings on them.

I'll also say this.... not just the gun market but a lot of places haven't recovered from covid / riot year of 2020. That's no B.S.!

One of the guys here is having a standby generator hooked up to his house. The electric company came out last week and told him he needed a new meter put in. He said fine... get it done... they told him they are back ordered 1.5 years because of parts and going back to covid!

Yeah, we are all fighting to get meter can boxes from power companies for new houses. Been that way since covid got going anything tied to govt, union, type manufacturing ia way backed up. If you remember, that's who went all crazy with all the covid protocol and it'd strayed their production and everything else.

 

[LawTalker]

If it was something we did on the barrel itself we should've tried and turned it faster than that for ya. Sorry! If it was something other like gunsmith ordered the wrong contour or fitting mess up....about as fast as we can do it.

We are basically 8-9 months out.

The amount of emergency requests we've been getting for test barrels for the last several months has been pretty much off the charts.

Had to be on a conference call with the Gov't 2-3 weeks ago. My quote for they're last order of 16 weeks wasn't good enough. They where going to be out of test barrels in less than 4 weeks for one caliber. So guess what.... requote the order and we had to get them done in less than four weeks! All most all of the orders we are getting from the gov't have defense priority ratings on them.

I'll also say this.... not just the gun market but a lot of places haven't recovered from covid / riot year of 2020. That's no B.S.!

One of the guys here is having a standby generator hooked up to his house. The electric company came out last week and told him he needed a new meter put in. He said fine... get it done... they told him they are back ordered 1.5 years because of parts and going back to covid!

I noticed a lot of GA Precision builds no longer list Bartlein barrels, is that because of the lead times to get barrels?

I was wanting to get an M40A5 going and couldn't help but notice that it seemed GA Precision M40A5 prices rose a fair amount in the last 8 weeks and I was sure their barrels used to be Bartlein but aren't any more.

 

[Jrb572]

I noticed a lot of GA Precision builds no longer list Bartlein barrels, is that because of the lead times to get barrels?

I was wanting to get an M40A5 going and couldn't help but notice that it seemed GA Precision M40A5 prices rose a fair amount in the last 8 weeks and I was sure their barrels used to be Bartlein but aren't any more.

They still use Bartlien according to there site. Are you looking at what the M40 series use ? It’s probably because people want what is spec on them.

 

[Milf Dots]

If it was something we did on the barrel itself we should've tried and turned it faster than that for ya. Sorry! If it was something other like gunsmith ordered the wrong contour or fitting mess up....about as fast as we can do it.

We are basically 8-9 months out.

The amount of emergency requests we've been getting for test barrels for the last several months has been pretty much off the charts.

Had to be on a conference call with the Gov't 2-3 weeks ago. My quote for they're last order of 16 weeks wasn't good enough. They where going to be out of test barrels in less than 4 weeks for one caliber. So guess what.... requote the order and we had to get them done in less than four weeks! All most all of the orders we are getting from the gov't have defense priority ratings on them.

I'll also say this.... not just the gun market but a lot of places haven't recovered from covid / riot year of 2020. That's no B.S.!

One of the guys here is having a standby generator hooked up to his house. The electric company came out last week and told him he needed a new meter put in. He said fine... get it done... they told him they are back ordered 1.5 years because of parts and going back to covid!

Frank, it's amazing to me that you're so approachable and involved in the discourse- truly awesome to see it and great for America. I'm just an average American who has never bought a premium barrel, but when I order one, Bartlein will be my first choice. Thanks for being a solid industry guy!

 

[Milf Dots]

Yeah, we are all fighting to get meter can boxes from power companies for new houses. Been that way since covid got going anything tied to govt, union, type manufacturing ia way backed up. If you remember, that's who went all crazy with all the covid protocol and it'd strayed their production and everything else.

You're speaking facts- my cousin waited close to two years for a residential electrical service upgrade/replacement (old meter box was completely rusted thru and open to squirrels) because new meter boxes were impossible for his electrician (good guy) to get here in Florida. Two major hurricanes in five years have really made it crazy here!

 

[LawTalker]

They still use Bartlien according to there site. Are you looking at what the M40 series use ? It’s probably because people want what is spec on them.

Ah, okay, the mistake must be on my end. I remember seeing that some of their builds had Bartlein, I was mistaken as to which ones were which. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[Rocketmandb]

I know virtually nothing about reaming or chambering a barrel, but I have to wonder why somebody would start reaming, stop part of the way through, withdraw the bit, and then resume.

I just did a video that goes through the entire process that you might find interesting. This was rebarreling my 300 PRC with a custom Bartlein.

 

[LawTalker]

I just did a video that goes through the entire process that you might find interesting. This was rebarreling my 300 PRC with a custom Bartlein.

Very interesting, I was just reading about the 300 PRC cartridge and have been considering this caliber. I'll check out the video. Thanks.

 

[LawTalker]

I just did a video that goes through the entire process that you might find interesting. This was rebarreling my 300 PRC with a custom Bartlein.

Just finished watching it right now.

If I can bounce a few questions off of you.

1- Why did you select 300 PRC? I am interested in this caliber and am wondering what the main factors were in your decision to go with 300 PRC.

2- How long did the original build take? You said Spartan did it? They did the entire build, not just the barrel, right?

3- Are you in California? How do you tolerate being in California?

4- It isn't my business, and I don't mean to pry, so no worries or offense if you don't want to answer this one... How much was the build?


That was a very informative and interesting video. I didn't realize so much delicate finesse went into producing one barrel.

 

[TheBigCountry]

That is a bit of digression.

You've pooped on my scope as a "turd" and now NEMO is "garbage." Not to digress, but either you know some things I don't know, or you're angling for a game of "my stuff is king of the dung hill, your stuff blows ass."

I do have an LWRC REPR 20 [mk 1] with a Nightforce ATACR, hopefully that isn't garbage topped with a turd.

I would guess there is a NEMO thread on the semi-auto section we could take that discussion to. I have some gripes with the NEMO but I have to say it is extremely accurate, with virtually no felt recoil, and when it is working, it is solid.

You said key word(s)

When it’s working

If it don’t work 100% all the time, it’s useless.

 

[LawTalker]

You said key word(s)

When it’s working

If it don’t work 100% all the time, it’s useless.

So there is nothing in your house that has ever, for a time, not worked perfectly?

Has your computer always functioned flawlessly?

 

[Rocketmandb]

Just finished watching it right now.

If I can bounce a few questions off of you.

1- Why did you select 300 PRC? I am interested in this caliber and am wondering what the main factors were in your decision to go with 300 PRC.

2- How long did the original build take? You said Spartan did it? They did the entire build, not just the barrel, right?

3- Are you in California? How do you tolerate being in California?

4- It isn't my business, and I don't mean to pry, so no worries or offense if you don't want to answer this one... How much was the build?


That was a very informative and interesting video. I didn't realize so much delicate finesse went into producing one barrel.

Don't want to spam non-related messages to the Bartlein thread. Tried sending a PM, but for some reason it isn't letting me do it.

 

[Huskydriver]

So there is nothing in your house that has ever, for a time, not worked perfectly?

Has your computer always functioned flawlessly?

He owns an AI so yes

















I'll show myself out

 

[verdugo60]

I had an issue with a Bartlein barrel that was hard to nail down, still not 100% sure it was the barrel's issue but the gun just wasn't shooting. Had a trusted smith check the other smith's chamber job and everything seemed to check out. Took some time to work through it all with customer service but I am very happy with how Bartlein handled it, they have my loyalty for sure. Brady at Bartlein is great BTW.

My very first custom rifle ever (12 years ago) had a Bartlein, Chad at LRI chambered it and it shot lights out from the get-go. Very glad they haven't decided to screw over the little guy in leiu of government contracts, I need to order another couple Bartleins soon for when this year's crop are shot out. Thanks for the great product and support Frank!

 

[TheBigCountry]

So there is nothing in your house that has ever, for a time, not worked perfectly?

Has your computer always functioned flawlessly?

Mute point. Different objects different purposes.

A guns design is inherently based on on its ability to destroy which it is pointed at, and also defend/take life when the situation to do so arises.

If I can’t trust the weapon to do as it was intended 100% of the time, no more then a paperweight and should be deemed as such and no use having around.

 

[LawTalker]

Mute point. Different objects different purposes.

A guns design is inherently based on on its ability to destroy which it is pointed at, and also defend/take life when the situation to do so arises.

If I can’t trust the weapon to do as it was intended 100% of the time, no more then a paperweight and should be deemed as such and no use having around.

Let's start a separate thread for NEMO. Or, if you do not object, I can message you privately and we can brainstorm on this?

 

[pmclaine]

If it was something we did on the barrel itself we should've tried and turned it faster than that for ya. Sorry! If it was something other like gunsmith ordered the wrong contour or fitting mess up....about as fast as we can do it.

We are basically 8-9 months out.

The amount of emergency requests we've been getting for test barrels for the last several months has been pretty much off the charts.

Had to be on a conference call with the Gov't 2-3 weeks ago. My quote for they're last order of 16 weeks wasn't good enough. They where going to be out of test barrels in less than 4 weeks for one caliber. So guess what.... requote the order and we had to get them done in less than four weeks! All most all of the orders we are getting from the gov't have defense priority ratings on them.

I'll also say this.... not just the gun market but a lot of places haven't recovered from covid / riot year of 2020. That's no B.S.!

One of the guys here is having a standby generator hooked up to his house. The electric company came out last week and told him he needed a new meter put in. He said fine... get it done... they told him they are back ordered 1.5 years because of parts and going back to covid!

I daily meet the supply chain issue and yes things suck.

People need to start getting pissed.

They want this to be the new norm.

Fuck that.

 

[LawTalker]

I daily meet the supply chain issue and yes things suck.

People need to start getting pissed.

They want this to be the new norm.

Fuck that.

Yes, but getting pissed at my gunsmith, yelling at Bartlein, or anything along those lines, doesn't make sense to me.

I have two custom builds pending with my gunsmith, one [bolt-action] commissioned in August 2023 with a 6 month lead-time and another [AR-10] commissioned in October 2023 with a 30-60 day lead-time. Neither is done. Suffice to say, I am not particularly thrilled with this level of delay. If I knew it was going to be this long I would have gone with GA Precision for their AR-10 and probably their M40a5. One reason I went with my gunsmith was the stated target delivery times. If he can't get the components he can't get the components. For the bolt-build they're waiting on the action. For the AR-10, I believe everything has finally come in and they are progressing on the work.


Who do you suggest I get pissed at?

 

[Frank Green]

I ordered a action almost a year ago (I with hold makers name as I'm not bashing or anything like that) but I called to check on it a few times and the last phone call I was told.... sorry but not going to make them for we don't know how long. Oh well!

 

[Sniperwannabee]

Yes, but getting pissed at my gunsmith, yelling at Bartlein, or anything along those lines, doesn't make sense to me.

I have two custom builds pending with my gunsmith, one [bolt-action] commissioned in August 2023 with a 6 month lead-time and another [AR-10] commissioned in October 2023 with a 30-60 day lead-time. Neither is done. Suffice to say, I am not particularly thrilled with this level of delay. If I knew it was going to be this long I would have gone with GA Precision for their AR-10 and probably their M40a5. One reason I went with my gunsmith was the stated target delivery times. If he can't get the components he can't get the components. For the bolt-build they're waiting on the action. For the AR-10, I believe everything has finally come in and they are progressing on the work.


Who do you suggest I get pissed at?

Joe Biden is a good start

 

[CaptNemo]

Let's start a separate thread for NEMO. Or, if you do not object, I can message you privately and we can brainstorm on this?

I just wanted to take this opportunity state: THIS IS NOT ME - I AM NOT THE "NEMO" IN QUESTION.
I have had this screen name on various forums since the early 1990's, for reference.

 

[brianf]

I ordered a action almost a year ago (I with hold makers name as I'm not bashing or anything like that) but I called to check on it a few times and the last phone call I was told.... sorry but not going to make them for we don't know how long. Oh well!

It’s amazing..

This is the only industry I have ever seen that recuses to take money

Works only 5 days a week when backordered

And doesn’t communicate with customers and lead times.

Any other industry and you’d be out of business in 6 months yet the same customers will go back to the supplier agsin

It hurts the brain

Not you specifically Frank…just in general