- Thread starter Fito
- Start date
Depends on what your starter budget is? What your current experience is?
If you have a small budget start with an older bolt .22 of good reputation. A Win 75T will teach anyone skills they can use with bigger calibers, longer distances.
If you have a small budget start with an older bolt .22 of good reputation. A Win 75T will teach anyone skills they can use with bigger calibers, longer distances.
A few trips to the match of your choice.
To Watch.
To Watch.
- Nov 3, 2010
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A good set of Harris bipods. Anyone else that says otherwise is lying to you
This. Everyone that has asked me this lately, I told to start with a 22LR. Get a good bolt gun, a ballistic calc, and a decent scope that tracks well.
I have been shooting centerfire for 2 years and started 22 this fall. 22 is every bit as hard or harder when shooting out to only 200yds. PLUS....no need to reload!
A rifle
A first full of money (or ammo) and ask to shoot people's guns... Sort of.
Factory - tikka tac-a1 or Ruger PR.
Cheap - Howa 1500. There's a few options with chassis or similar. Plus, aics style mags.
Basic Harris bipod will work to get you going, and a rear / uni-bag. Schmedium or pint-sized game changers work, else fortune cookie are nice if you know how to use em.
Detachable mags. I'd suggest minimum of 2, but 1 will work for club matches.
Optics.. depends on budget. As good as you can afford. If you wanna cheap out, vortex venom, or maybe the Arken ? I'll let someone else in the know answer this. @Ilya R I think ?? Paging DLO / Ilya.
Ammo. Basically it. Oh, valid dope.
Factory - tikka tac-a1 or Ruger PR.
Cheap - Howa 1500. There's a few options with chassis or similar. Plus, aics style mags.
Basic Harris bipod will work to get you going, and a rear / uni-bag. Schmedium or pint-sized game changers work, else fortune cookie are nice if you know how to use em.
Detachable mags. I'd suggest minimum of 2, but 1 will work for club matches.
Optics.. depends on budget. As good as you can afford. If you wanna cheap out, vortex venom, or maybe the Arken ? I'll let someone else in the know answer this. @Ilya R I think ?? Paging DLO / Ilya.
Ammo. Basically it. Oh, valid dope.
Good luck on your journey OP. Everything above is valid advice. Mine is to make sure whatever rifle you end up going with you can find ammo for and afford to shoot. If you are just starting out, a .223 trainer or .308 gun are going to do everything you need for now and be relatively affordable to practice with. Lots of nice rifles go unshot after new buyers fail to calculate the full cost of using them.
It is hard to make recommendations without a price range.
I have all sorts of recommendations by price range on my legacy website: https://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=623
If you come up with specific requirements, I can make specific recommendations.
ILya
A torque wrench that measures in inch pounds, and the bits necessary for your rifle.
Personally after doing it this way I wish I would have saved longer and put the money into a more custom rifle.
You aren't wrong doing it this way, I just have more money invested in two rifles that I could have just put into one. I can rebarrel my old savage to a new caliber pretty easy though.
You aren't wrong doing it this way, I just have more money invested in two rifles that I could have just put into one. I can rebarrel my old savage to a new caliber pretty easy though.
You haven’t let us know a budget for you so that leaves monster gaps in this sport. If you’re on a budget then a Ruger precision in 223 308 6.5 or similar rifle, Arken or Athlon argos, Harris bipod, schmedium gamechanger and ammo. Download the Hornady 4dof app and borrrow a good chronograph so you can get the app set up. That’s it! Go shoot some matches and have fun. The same thing with a 22lr instead of the center fires I mentioned above and go have fun with that also!
Rifle
Good optics (NF, vortex, Schmitt and bender ect)
Good Bipod (harris, atlas)
Good rear bag (python, game changer)
Bullets
Everything else is luxury
Phone ballistic calculators are free and often do just fine for 90% of people, with enough training you dont need most things. And it's money better spent 1k to a range finder is only good for range finding 1k to legit training is good enough to make you better than many other shooters.
Also embrace buy once cry once. Avoid good enough.
Good optics (NF, vortex, Schmitt and bender ect)
Good Bipod (harris, atlas)
Good rear bag (python, game changer)
Bullets
Everything else is luxury
Phone ballistic calculators are free and often do just fine for 90% of people, with enough training you dont need most things. And it's money better spent 1k to a range finder is only good for range finding 1k to legit training is good enough to make you better than many other shooters.
Also embrace buy once cry once. Avoid good enough.
$25-30K is a good starting point. You could spend more or less but that's ball park to get everything setup with high quality gear and lets you focus only on your shooting and skills. This will minimize the learning curve.
Lets you build a top tier gun, matching .22 trainer, A few barrels, Glass/Kestrel/RF/Tripods/Accessories, reloading setup, components and some money in there for matches/training. Maybe an extra stock and carbon barrel so you can shoot NRL hunter vs PRS/NRL bolt guns.
That number may sound high but when you add up everything its really not too far off. Its not a cheap sport/hobby so its better to know up front before jumping in.
Lets you build a top tier gun, matching .22 trainer, A few barrels, Glass/Kestrel/RF/Tripods/Accessories, reloading setup, components and some money in there for matches/training. Maybe an extra stock and carbon barrel so you can shoot NRL hunter vs PRS/NRL bolt guns.
That number may sound high but when you add up everything its really not too far off. Its not a cheap sport/hobby so its better to know up front before jumping in.
That might be the stupidest number you could have possibly said to a guy just looking to get into the sport. Did I miss something in this thread that someone even remotely asked for 30k in gear? Good way to keep people from getting into the sport. You could easily have a fantastic setup of rifle, optic and gear without reloading for under 4k and if your on a budget substantially less then that. Op make sure you take info on the hide with a major grain of salt. You surely don’t need top tier gear to have fun and learn and even top tier could be done for a 1/3 of that crazy number of 30k
To be fair the OP really didn't ask a very good question.
They should build a machine that will calculate the perfect question to ask.
They should build a machine that will calculate the perfect question to ask.
Basic but good setup.
Bergara B14 HMR or Tikka CTR in 6.5cm.
Atlas CAL bipod
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x or Strike Eagle 5-25. Both are good entry level optics
Area 419 hellfire while you save up for a suppressor
A Tab gear str8 laced bag or precision under ground rear bag. Both are quality items and I like them both.
And lots of ammo.
Maybe check out some online trainings here (20 bucks a month) or see if Frank or someone respectable is holding a training in your area and attend it. People will have a plethora of gear and most folks are very generous in letting new shooters check out said gear. Wouldn't be a bad idea before you waste a ton of money on stuff that may not work out for ya or you don't like.
Not including ammo or training you'll be into it for probably just under 3K. Both of the above rifles have tons of options for customizing as you grow as a shooter.
Bergara B14 HMR or Tikka CTR in 6.5cm.
Atlas CAL bipod
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 5-25x or Strike Eagle 5-25. Both are good entry level optics
Area 419 hellfire while you save up for a suppressor
A Tab gear str8 laced bag or precision under ground rear bag. Both are quality items and I like them both.
And lots of ammo.
Maybe check out some online trainings here (20 bucks a month) or see if Frank or someone respectable is holding a training in your area and attend it. People will have a plethora of gear and most folks are very generous in letting new shooters check out said gear. Wouldn't be a bad idea before you waste a ton of money on stuff that may not work out for ya or you don't like.
Not including ammo or training you'll be into it for probably just under 3K. Both of the above rifles have tons of options for customizing as you grow as a shooter.
You can get started quite cheaply($1-2k) or you can go full gonzo ($20K+), I started with a poors rig.
And if you are remotely serious about this all that basic shit will be replaced and either sit and collect dust or sold for a loss.
Cheaper to buy correct from the beginning. Skill will come faster as you won't be fighting your gear. You can focus on improving not wondering if your misses are gear related. A .22 clone of your match rifle will help that come even faster while being able to train more often and cheaper. But don't let that get in the way of a good rant.
What is basic/acceptable for you is not acceptable to many people.
I shot a class with a kid up at Sig Sauer in May.
This was the other guy's story.
He signed up for a week of Sig classes.....scoped rifle 101 (3 days), scoped rifle 102 (2 days) and reach for 1000 (1 day).
After signing up for classes he went to Dicks and in the midst of Covid all they had available was a Remington 700 BDL in the plastic stock.
First morning at Sig he bought a Sig scope and mounted it/zeroed in his first class.
I had no idea how he did in his first two classes because I met him during reach for 1000.
His Sig scope broke the day before, so the morning of reach for 1000 he had a new scope installed.
When we went to 1000 yards he was crushing steel with 168 SMKs.
He shot great with economy gear using a bullet that people say can't shoot 1000.
He spent well less than $30 K.
This was the other guy's story.
He signed up for a week of Sig classes.....scoped rifle 101 (3 days), scoped rifle 102 (2 days) and reach for 1000 (1 day).
After signing up for classes he went to Dicks and in the midst of Covid all they had available was a Remington 700 BDL in the plastic stock.
First morning at Sig he bought a Sig scope and mounted it/zeroed in his first class.
I had no idea how he did in his first two classes because I met him during reach for 1000.
His Sig scope broke the day before, so the morning of reach for 1000 he had a new scope installed.
When we went to 1000 yards he was crushing steel with 168 SMKs.
He shot great with economy gear using a bullet that people say can't shoot 1000.
He spent well less than $30 K.
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I can teach a 10 year old how to hit a target at 1K in about 30 minutes of instruction. They haven't learned anything other than basic trigger discipline, body positioning and sight picture.
Is that supposed to be impressive? With modern ballistics software , a bipod and a bag the only thing that matters is wind, which is no great mystery after sending a few and seeing trace/impacts. Its not the mythical thing that used to be for Fudds.
No one said you can't hit anything with 168s. Its a stupid argument to make and out of context. Do you really need to see the WEZ of a 168 vs a 140 class 6.5 bullet out to 1K to understand how much of a disadvantage one is?
What you aren't doing is showing someone a small UKD target and telling them to make a first round impact in less than 90 seconds.
But he spent less than 30K so he obviously proved your point.....LOL
Is that supposed to be impressive? With modern ballistics software , a bipod and a bag the only thing that matters is wind, which is no great mystery after sending a few and seeing trace/impacts. Its not the mythical thing that used to be for Fudds.
No one said you can't hit anything with 168s. Its a stupid argument to make and out of context. Do you really need to see the WEZ of a 168 vs a 140 class 6.5 bullet out to 1K to understand how much of a disadvantage one is?
What you aren't doing is showing someone a small UKD target and telling them to make a first round impact in less than 90 seconds.
But he spent less than 30K so he obviously proved your point.....LOL
I'll take the enthusiastic learner as a friend of the sport over the thinks shooting is A gear contest snob any day
You sure are an argumentative asshole. I suppose you’re taking your Bugatti to the grocery store and winning every competition that’s lucky enough to be graced with your presence.
Welcome to the Hide, a month ago.
I see you’ve mastered the craft! Nothing more to do. Congratulations!
Fuckin’ prick…
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It doesn’t take $25-$30K
Many of us started on $400 savage platforms. I hit targets at 1,000 then with the savage and I hit targets at 1,000 now with the AI
I’ve seen stock savage rifles beat up customs on the 1,000 yard fclass line
Many of us started on $400 savage platforms. I hit targets at 1,000 then with the savage and I hit targets at 1,000 now with the AI
I’ve seen stock savage rifles beat up customs on the 1,000 yard fclass line
You sound mad. Did your husband recently leave you?
If you would take the time to read what was written perhaps you would understand it. Making assumptions about being a gear snob is hilarious.
Like I said, if people want to skip some of the learning curve and save some money in the long run, start with good gear. Its not a difficult concept. Good Gear also holds its value over a longer time period. Maybe if you shot more and posted here less that would be readily apparent.
No one ever said things cant be done on a budget. Companies who make shitty gear need to make money too.
If i knew what I knew today 30 years ago you think I would do the same thing over? You only get so much time on this rock, don't waste it.
Smart people learn from their mistakes. Wise ones, learn from the mistakes of others.
Just matching the aggression. You sound like a real know-it-all twat.
And I’m sure he’ll be back soon. He must not be able to find his brand of cigarettes.
Rifle with sights of your liking, sling, ammo, targets, ear and eye protection, a place to shoot.
These items have turned out more marksman than any "precision rifle" competition, or internet message board forum.
My first shooting experience beyond 100 yards was at 19 with an FN M16A4, 5.56 NATO, 20" barrel, with iron sights. With some badic instruction, I got pretty good with it and out-shot a lot of my Marines. Distances were 200 to 500 meters.
My first experience "precision" shooting was with NRA 50 Foot small bore with my Civil Air Patrol crew when I was 16/17. BSA Martini International with peep sights and a loop sling. Still holds a special place in my heart.
Super fun 22LR.
If you can get good with either one of those, then your transition to a "precision" rifle will be easy as hell.
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This thread reeks of trolls already. Op whats your budget? The only true answer is how much do you want to spend? Otherwise, spend your kids inheritance on glass and ammo. “Most” rifles are more capable than the shooter. Glass may be the biggest single purchase going forward, it is your connection with your rifle and your results. Ammo gives you more opportunities to make better shots. Best of luck.
I'll make this easy and save you a ton of headache making upgrades easy.
Action- Bighorn Origin
Barrel- Any Origin prefit in 6.5 creedmoor
Trigger Tech Special
KRG Bravo with spigot extension
Harris 6-9" bipod, more expensive option is an Atlas Cal
Scope- Burris XTRIII with the SCR2 mil reticle
Rings- Seekins Precision
The world will be your oyster with this setup and you can add when your tastes change. You can upgrade calibers simply with a barrel swap. You can upgrade the KRG chassis to pretty much any configuration you want. The Burris XTRIII can be found under $1,500 and will never hold you back. I believe it's the best value in optics under $2,000 at this point. The Athlon Cronus, Vortex Razor Gen II, MK5, etc. will be good too.; but having looked at all of the above, the XTRIII has the best mix of glass, reticle, and features. Get a schmedium gamechanger and your rifle be competitive with any other in the field.
This is the easy button and I wish these options would have been available when I started shooting. You're looking at about $3,600 retail which sounds expensive at first, but it is really a budget build. You can decrease the cost significantly if you shop the classifieds. I say it is a budget build because after the initial cost output, you won't chase your tail with thousands of dollars of unnecessary upgrades unless you do so by choice. Even if you do, your base package retains value.
Action- Bighorn Origin
Barrel- Any Origin prefit in 6.5 creedmoor
Trigger Tech Special
KRG Bravo with spigot extension
Harris 6-9" bipod, more expensive option is an Atlas Cal
Scope- Burris XTRIII with the SCR2 mil reticle
Rings- Seekins Precision
The world will be your oyster with this setup and you can add when your tastes change. You can upgrade calibers simply with a barrel swap. You can upgrade the KRG chassis to pretty much any configuration you want. The Burris XTRIII can be found under $1,500 and will never hold you back. I believe it's the best value in optics under $2,000 at this point. The Athlon Cronus, Vortex Razor Gen II, MK5, etc. will be good too.; but having looked at all of the above, the XTRIII has the best mix of glass, reticle, and features. Get a schmedium gamechanger and your rifle be competitive with any other in the field.
This is the easy button and I wish these options would have been available when I started shooting. You're looking at about $3,600 retail which sounds expensive at first, but it is really a budget build. You can decrease the cost significantly if you shop the classifieds. I say it is a budget build because after the initial cost output, you won't chase your tail with thousands of dollars of unnecessary upgrades unless you do so by choice. Even if you do, your base package retains value.
I have about as much money in firearms and accessories (reloading, hunting gear like clothing and camping just for hunting, etc) as I have in my house as a guess.
I have a lot of guns... And Gucci reloading gear.. and lots of it.
I gotta get a new primer seater off @orkan in the new year. Send me one to Australia !
I have a lot of guns... And Gucci reloading gear.. and lots of it.
I gotta get a new primer seater off @orkan in the new year. Send me one to Australia !
Lately I've been shooting a 6.5CM with this Ultimatum action and the heaviest IBI barrel I can find, Vortex Viper PST.. The money here went into the barrel, action and glass. This can be done cheaper though. The tripod and ball head was about $200, plus ARCA rail for $60. The Oryx chassis is only $399 (until the new year) and provides a great host for everything. Add a couple of bags and you're set. Match ammo so no mucking about with reloading and all the variables associated yet.
We've been shooting known distances of 500yards using a spotter with a tripod and decent binoculars. Targetry is steel plates on t-bar hangers for another ~$150. One could also shoot lower quality ammo and just have bigger steel. Known distances I find helps to focus on the fundamentals. The spotter is there to help make adjustments if you don't see impacts. It also saves money on not having to worry too much about ballistic calculators, kestrels, range finders etc. Lots of other goodies like the MDT bipods and similar gucci kit will come later.
We've been shooting known distances of 500yards using a spotter with a tripod and decent binoculars. Targetry is steel plates on t-bar hangers for another ~$150. One could also shoot lower quality ammo and just have bigger steel. Known distances I find helps to focus on the fundamentals. The spotter is there to help make adjustments if you don't see impacts. It also saves money on not having to worry too much about ballistic calculators, kestrels, range finders etc. Lots of other goodies like the MDT bipods and similar gucci kit will come later.
I agree that a lot of time is wasted by some people chasing shitty gear to save money. Some lack basic problem solving skills. When I started shooting long range, I pieced together a rig for under $2k. I had to problem solve a lot of shit to make it reliable. I even has a couple top ten Border Wars finishes with my shitty Savage.
I now have several $10k's in gear and reloading components for this fucking money suck. Top notch gear will gain you hits, no doubt. Especially when targets are small. I do not regret the education I got before I created the financial means to buy nice gear. Now, when I have a problem with high end gear, I solve it. I don't get on the internet and bitch that I spent $$$$$$ and it should bolt up to every fucking soccer mom's commuter and make it drive like a lambo. I have friends that cannot solve the tiniest of problems without their gunsmiths.
Again, I would not trade the education I got learning how to make starter gear work well for anything. Also, when an expensive hunt, or match is on the line, I'm not giving back my reliable gear.
to start with.....
use whatever rifle you currently have, practice as much as you can. attend as many club level matches as you can - almost always there will be people offering you different gear to try, try as much as you can and find what does and does not help you.
theres a dude at one of my clubs who shoots 22 prs with what looks like an old farmers bunny gun.... he regularly does better than a lot of the guys "with all the gear (but no idea)" bit like the old saying "beware the man with one gun, for he knows how to use it".
when your current gear is what is preventing your improvement, then its time to reevaluate what gear you have and upgrade, get someting else or discard.
at another of my clubs theres another guy who has a different rifle for every match he shoots, to the casual observer they all look and even feel the same, but there are subtle differences to make them ideal for each specific match. I suspect hes got more invested in rifles than @iceng has in guns cars and houses combined..... its very rare for anyone to beat him - I did once (and only once in 25 years so far) but only because he miscalculated 200yds vs 200m and shot a few donuts on a day with horrid mirage, but in general its his 50+ years of experience giong to every shoot he can and learning from every one that he uses to regularly polish the floor with the rest of us...... hes also the nicest gentleman youre ever likeley to meet and will help you all he can if you ask. there has been the odd occasion where people suggest it his gear thats doing the winning, so he'll grab a shitty club gun and still win.
work on the skills/experience, great gear is only the last few % of the race.
use whatever rifle you currently have, practice as much as you can. attend as many club level matches as you can - almost always there will be people offering you different gear to try, try as much as you can and find what does and does not help you.
theres a dude at one of my clubs who shoots 22 prs with what looks like an old farmers bunny gun.... he regularly does better than a lot of the guys "with all the gear (but no idea)" bit like the old saying "beware the man with one gun, for he knows how to use it".
when your current gear is what is preventing your improvement, then its time to reevaluate what gear you have and upgrade, get someting else or discard.
at another of my clubs theres another guy who has a different rifle for every match he shoots, to the casual observer they all look and even feel the same, but there are subtle differences to make them ideal for each specific match. I suspect hes got more invested in rifles than @iceng has in guns cars and houses combined..... its very rare for anyone to beat him - I did once (and only once in 25 years so far) but only because he miscalculated 200yds vs 200m and shot a few donuts on a day with horrid mirage, but in general its his 50+ years of experience giong to every shoot he can and learning from every one that he uses to regularly polish the floor with the rest of us...... hes also the nicest gentleman youre ever likeley to meet and will help you all he can if you ask. there has been the odd occasion where people suggest it his gear thats doing the winning, so he'll grab a shitty club gun and still win.
work on the skills/experience, great gear is only the last few % of the race.
Amen to that.
I'll defend your numbers to a extent. If we are talking serious PRS match shooting and If you are going all in then yes sooner or later you will be into serious cash as you suggested. The OP had asked about precision shooting I didn't see the word competition. If he did or it was implied then so be it.
Just starting out you can drop a zero off your number. Many have started with a Ruger American and a 10x SS scope. My first "precision" rig was a 700 sps and falcon 3-18 scope. That was 20 years ago. I had so much fun with it back then and thought it was big shit.
Around here my $5-6k Origin,Bartlien, XLR, XRS 2 home build would be considered entry, but even that rifle isn't crazy money and can shoot with just about anything else. I have about the same cash in my V-22. Toss in all your wind meters, shooting mats, chronograph singe stage reloading setup etc I'd guess I'm at 15K. I would argue that setup would be just fine to train and compete with.
For another 3k I could have upgraded to Alpha tier glass on both rifles and I am still under 20k
I'm certainly not getting on to you. To compete at a high level I have no doubts you could hit 30k quickly. Top end gear backup rifles etc
I only would suggest maybe looking at what a budget local match hacker looking for some fun might be able to spend to play.
I will give you a friendly middle finger for making me think about how much money I spend just for shooting at my home range LOL.
I am going to try PRS rimfire comps this coming year which will I am sure will lead to spending more...
