If you had to choose one today, which and why? .223 Remington because of the robust and established support? 6 ARC because it is, in theory, a more flexible and superior long ranger performer? Is cost a driver? Recoil? Barrel life?
- Thread starter DJL2
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I’d choose a 223.
Performance in longer barrels with a longer oal is a lot more impressive than assumed ballistics and it’s so easy to load.
Performance in longer barrels with a longer oal is a lot more impressive than assumed ballistics and it’s so easy to load.
In my opinion from 1st hand experience plus a lot of customer feedback......
Hands down the .223.
Super easy to load sub 1/2 moa or better ammo through a progressive press w/o picky prep.
Less cost for all components.
Not having a fucking stroke if you loose some brass during practice.
It's a "trainer". . . . . expect to have a slightly lower performance at distance.....
*With 75-80 gr class bullets and about any charge of Varget, the 223 is giving up very little to the ARC. (For hunting pigs, etc. the ARC has the energy advantage which is huge when trying to stop an heartbeat but you tagged this thread with "Trainer". Paper and steel gives zero F's about energy.
No numbers on ARC barrel life yet but the 223 will be tough to wear out at all.
Recoil is not going to be a factor with either in typical bolt gun weight classes. If it does matter, the .223 will still recoil less simply due to less bullet mass if nothing else.
(EDITED TO ADD): You are asking for comparisons between an extremely well known performer and something completely new with zero track record. My above opinion is based on known variables with other similar rounds throwing the same 6mm bullets at the same speeds as the ARC.
./
Hands down the .223.
Super easy to load sub 1/2 moa or better ammo through a progressive press w/o picky prep.
Less cost for all components.
Not having a fucking stroke if you loose some brass during practice.
It's a "trainer". . . . . expect to have a slightly lower performance at distance.....
*With 75-80 gr class bullets and about any charge of Varget, the 223 is giving up very little to the ARC. (For hunting pigs, etc. the ARC has the energy advantage which is huge when trying to stop an heartbeat but you tagged this thread with "Trainer". Paper and steel gives zero F's about energy.
No numbers on ARC barrel life yet but the 223 will be tough to wear out at all.
Recoil is not going to be a factor with either in typical bolt gun weight classes. If it does matter, the .223 will still recoil less simply due to less bullet mass if nothing else.
(EDITED TO ADD): You are asking for comparisons between an extremely well known performer and something completely new with zero track record. My above opinion is based on known variables with other similar rounds throwing the same 6mm bullets at the same speeds as the ARC.
./
Definitely.223 over the 6arc. No question for a trainer.
Personally, I’d run .308. Same bolt and mags. More recoil for training.
Personally, I’d run .308. Same bolt and mags. More recoil for training.
Easy to source a bolt for 223 bolt guns
Cost per round is stupid cheap
Lapua brass option
I already shoot a 6BR so there’s zero reason for me to have another 6mm.
Cheap factory ammo for 223 is literally in every single gun store
I also do not wanna be the test mule for a brand new cartridge that may or may not perform or even last.
The barrel will last a long time as well further decreasing the long term costs associated with building a trainer
Cost per round is stupid cheap
Lapua brass option
I already shoot a 6BR so there’s zero reason for me to have another 6mm.
Cheap factory ammo for 223 is literally in every single gun store
I also do not wanna be the test mule for a brand new cartridge that may or may not perform or even last.
The barrel will last a long time as well further decreasing the long term costs associated with building a trainer
If I have a bolt action, why would I ever want a weird magazine, weird bolt, less performance 6mm when the plethora of 6mm short actions exist?
If you want a longer barrel and brass life for your funny brass, go 6br.
If you want to burn the house down, go 6cm.
If you want something in between, look at the plethora of threads on here debating between the various 6mmbrxlgbtq's avalible.
If you want a longer barrel and brass life for your funny brass, go 6br.
If you want to burn the house down, go 6cm.
If you want something in between, look at the plethora of threads on here debating between the various 6mmbrxlgbtq's avalible.
These types of ‘questions’ occur when folks do too much reading and not enough doing.
6cm doesnt really burn the house down... just saying
What’s your load
Hornady bthp 75
Benchmark 23.5-24.5
Cci 400
Whatever range brass the ar guys leave . But lake city is better.
That's my trainer load .if u want really accurate try varget and 80.5 Berger
Benchmark 23.5-24.5
Cci 400
Whatever range brass the ar guys leave . But lake city is better.
That's my trainer load .if u want really accurate try varget and 80.5 Berger
Work with a .062 freebore you think?
I just mean pushing the projectile really fast and nuke your barrels
I don't have a progressive, but I suppose I could grab some .223 dies and load for cheap. Of course, the only I have that runs .223 is my AR...
Honestly, I'm happy to run my AR, it just doesn't do anything for the "run your bolt gun well" bit. I'm not quite read to drop another couple grand on a rifle, chassis and scope right at the moment, but...I guess I'll start eye balling T3x's in .223 now...
Honestly, I'm happy to run my AR, it just doesn't do anything for the "run your bolt gun well" bit. I'm not quite read to drop another couple grand on a rifle, chassis and scope right at the moment, but...I guess I'll start eye balling T3x's in .223 now...
Until arc is more established and has a much higher level of availability like the .223 im going .223
The "pain" factor, such as it is, is the cost of factory ammo. I am slow to get into reloading - and until I am rolling my own .223, the reality is that I can shoot my 6.5 Creed for less. Or my 6.8 SPC. As staggering as that is, once I stop blapping XM855/SS109 or similar, the cost of match ammo jumps about the ~.65-75 cents/round those two cost me.
Anyhow, seems like .223 is an easy winner her if you're not running something bigger.
Anyhow, seems like .223 is an easy winner her if you're not running something bigger.
My vote is for .223. Lots of ammo options to choose from and easily available.
Then, once you are ready to move up, go with a proper longer range round rather than an in between round like the 6 ARC...
That's what I'm talking about. I grab any brass I can get for free, size, trim, then load and shoot, after that I collet size only for 2-3 more firings.Light load of Varget and 73'elds. I've even ran a 62 bthp and threw blc-2 and it was very accurate, and STUPID cheap. My 20" no brake 223 has similar recoil to my heavy 28"comp 6 Creedmoor. Identical rifles except barrel contours and length. I keep some 75's on tap for when I wanna get serious.
Very similar to my approach, both my trainer and match guns r the same from chassis to scope. 223 no brake same recoil as my 6xc match gun. I actually prefer shooting my trainer ,its fun as can be
The best part I see getting to shoot 100 rounds or more a week, I can't imagine how much more I'd suck if i didn't have my identical trainer.
223 is substantially cheaper to load than anything else for most folks because being handed large lots of lake city once fired brass for free is a pretty common occurrence. Certainly common enough that I think I could subsist entirely off of that and never run out. Even if you don't shoot somewhere people hand you lots of free quality brass though, .223 brass / loaded ammo are still cheaper than anything else. As for how good a long range performer your trainer is, it is kind of the point that it is not quite as good so you have to actually pay attention to wind instead of just holding edge. Recoil and barrel life are of course very good on a .223.
Arn't we supposed to be debating a .223 trainer vs .308 or .22lr and not .223 vs. the latest 6mm flavor that I had to google?
Arn't we supposed to be debating a .223 trainer vs .308 or .22lr and not .223 vs. the latest 6mm flavor that I had to google?
OP, to answer your question, .223 Rem is the correct choice. But something to think about is whether it's wise to spend money on another rifle and ammo, or to just more ammo/barrels for your existing rifle.
I load my .5MOA .223Rem 77gr NCCs/Varget to 2930fps for $23.50/100 and Pdog/plinker loads for $13/100 using 40gr NBTs/BLC-2.
Just the other day I scoped my throat on the .223 Rem match gun after ~2000 rounds. It's not new, but there's a ton of life left despite being run pretty hard. I'm not disappointed in the least.
I load my .5MOA .223Rem 77gr NCCs/Varget to 2930fps for $23.50/100 and Pdog/plinker loads for $13/100 using 40gr NBTs/BLC-2.
Just the other day I scoped my throat on the .223 Rem match gun after ~2000 rounds. It's not new, but there's a ton of life left despite being run pretty hard. I'm not disappointed in the least.
How did u get it down so cheap
Hornady bullet- .14 cents a round
Cci #400 .4 cents a piece
Powder-.12 per round
Brass free
How long ago did you buy those components? Arnt 77gr NCC like $29 per 100?!
I went though all of this a decade back.
After shooting, comparing, doing the math, and figuring handloading costs; I just went with the 223 since I already had most of it already.
BTW, I don't do trainers; but I do use the 223 for F T/R, SR and MR.
It all just adds up to easier.
Identical rifle too, in 308. for F T/R LR.
260 For F Open.
Greg
After shooting, comparing, doing the math, and figuring handloading costs; I just went with the 223 since I already had most of it already.
BTW, I don't do trainers; but I do use the 223 for F T/R, SR and MR.
It all just adds up to easier.
Identical rifle too, in 308. for F T/R LR.
260 For F Open.
Greg
Sales within the last 18 months. Local deal primers: 1.7¢, $180/8lb Varget, $160/8lb BLC-2, 77NCC overruns for 13¢/per delivered, 40gr Ballistic Tips for 6.5¢/per, free sorted/prepped range brass. All from before the Plague and election year shenanigans.
Buying bulk mail order helps amortise the shipping/hazmat too.
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I know this is almost a 3 year old thread but I have a keyboard one hand, a beer in the other, and I'm board.
I don't really need a "trainer". I just like the idea of a really accurate rifle chambered for a dirt cheap cartridge.
My vote is for the 223. In fact I'll be taking my factory barreled action (Howa 1500 Varmint in 223) to Stumpy's here in Swansboro NC
to get the barrel removed( howa barrels are criminally hard to remove). I'm going back to the well with another McGowan barrel since the one I put on my 308 turned out to be a real shooter.
I don't really need a "trainer". I just like the idea of a really accurate rifle chambered for a dirt cheap cartridge.
My vote is for the 223. In fact I'll be taking my factory barreled action (Howa 1500 Varmint in 223) to Stumpy's here in Swansboro NC
to get the barrel removed( howa barrels are criminally hard to remove). I'm going back to the well with another McGowan barrel since the one I put on my 308 turned out to be a real shooter.
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If for no other reason (being a trainer) .223 and components are available everywhere, just about all the time. Brass is cheap (I would purchase it to make other rounds rather than pay a premium to purchase the rounds.) powder, a lot will work just fine, probably one of the least picky rounds I have ever loaded for, and all of it worked, and finally something no mentioned.
While heavy for caliber bullets are much preferred, lots and lots of lessor weight bullets can be found and they will shoot.
While heavy for caliber bullets are much preferred, lots and lots of lessor weight bullets can be found and they will shoot.
Saw a friend shoot a deer and he was more worried about the brass he threw. Nothing was going to happen until that case was found. If that’s the kind of emotional turmoil these not-to-common calibers produce I’m out. 223 for all the practical reasons stated previously.
Dissenting view from a person who also likes his 223s: I'm apparently the only person in the world using a 6arc as a trainer and as a backup for my 22 grendel match rifle. Sub 1/2 moa with factory 103, 105, 108 with a TL3 proof prefit. Barrel life should be stellar, considering factory ammo is several grains below max. I wouldn't hesitate to use this as a match rifle with local matches not exceeding 700 yards. The kicker for me is not having to worry about reloading, grabbing several boxes and focusing on trigger time. Considering what I have paid for ammo when it pops up on Brownells (plus coupons) and what I can sell the 1x brass for on gunbroker, I'm shooting for less than the cost of bullets...for now.
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