Bergara has a new rimfire.

JaoeyP

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It looks like a generic knock off of a Vudoo. Bergara has never produced any quality rifles why should we expect this to anything different
Say what now??? Bergara doesn't make quality product??? Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you're just a troll.

I've only heard good things about Bergara. I had one of the first HMRs when they came out and it shot great.

Look like a generic Vudoo? Yes, it looks like a 40x rimfire in the HMR stock. $1,150 MSRP for a complete 700 footprint rifle. Sign me up.
 

Afkirby

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Say what now??? Bergara doesn't make quality product??? Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you're just a troll.

I've only heard good things about Bergara. I had one of the first HMRs when they came out and it shot great.

Look like a generic Vudoo? Yes, it looks like a 40x rimfire in the HMR stock. $1,150 MSRP for a complete 700 footprint rifle. Sign me up.
You'd think the guy was sponsored by Vudoo to hate on this gun that isn't even released yet.
 

ZWGunsAR

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Come on man. Give us more details :)

How does the fit and finish feel.
Any chance to compare it to a vudoo, tikka, Cz etc...

How was the accuracy?
Being a prototype I’m sure the gun was polished over a little better than a standard production gun, but I was impressed with it for the money. The conditions weren’t ideal for true accuracy test with lack of ammo selection and other factors, but I managed to hit 6” steel at almost 400 yards with little to no issues. I own a vudoo and don’t plan on getting rid of it in the near future. That would be like selling a Stiller Tac-30 because you bought a Bergara HMR. They are different and can be compared, but not fairly.
 

ZWGunsAR

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A Stiller TAC 30? ?
I figured that was a good comparison since the vudoo resembles a stiller 2500XR and doesn’t have the same bolt throw as a tikka or cz, but maybe you’re a defiance guy or enjoy the little brass collar of a badger or maybe the block that is a bat or mcmillan action. To each their own.
 
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Frankr

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Being a prototype I’m sure the gun was polished over a little better than a standard production gun, but I was impressed with it for the money. The conditions weren’t ideal for true accuracy test with lack of ammo selection and other factors, but I managed to hit 6” steel at almost 400 yards with little to no issues. I own a vudoo and don’t plan on getting rid of it in the near future. That would be like selling a Stiller Tac-30 because you bought a Bergara HMR. They are different and can be compared, but not fairly.

Thanks for the info.

Did the stock feel ok?

I handled one of their 10/22 stocks in the store and it was almost cheap feeling (reminded me of the ruger boat paddle stock feel)

Any word on if they will toss their carbon fiber barrel on it for some weight savings?
 

ZWGunsAR

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Thanks for the info.

Did the stock feel ok?

I handled one of their 10/22 stocks in the store and it was almost cheap feeling (reminded me of the ruger boat paddle stock feel)

Any word on if they will toss their carbon fiber barrel on it for some weight savings?
The stock was similar to their HMR stock or BXR stock in my opinion. I’d prefer an HS Precision on a hunting gun and a Manners on a range gun. The carbon fiber barrel was the first option I asked for and I could see one in the future, but the first ones you’ll see hit the shelves will be steel.
 
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Frankr

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The stock was similar to their HMR stock or BXR stock in my opinion. I’d prefer an HS Precision on a hunting gun and a Manners on a range gun. The carbon fiber barrel was the first option I asked for and I could see one in the future, but the first ones you’ll see hit the shelves will be steel.
Sweet if they shoot well and come out in carbon fiber then I will be adding one to the stable.

The 9 pounds seems kind of heavy for a plastic stocked 18” gun. Shaving a pound off the barrel would be nice (and they look sexy).
 

Frankr

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Forgot to ask.

How did it compare in your opinion to a cz457 or tikka T1x action?
 

ZWGunsAR

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Forgot to ask.

How did it compare in your opinion to a cz457 or tikka T1x action?
The two 457s I’ve played with and the Tikka felt like lighter hunting rigs to me which isn’t a bad thing. I don’t want to miss lead you on the stock, it is closer to the HMR with the pillar/internal chassis than the BXR.
 

littlepod

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The stock was similar to their HMR stock or BXR stock in my opinion. I’d prefer an HS Precision on a hunting gun and a Manners on a range gun. The carbon fiber barrel was the first option I asked for and I could see one in the future, but the first ones you’ll see hit the shelves will be steel.
For being a true trainer, seems like the weight is pretty good. A Bergara HMR in .308 would be around 9.7 lbs I believe, so this is pretty great. I just put on a much heavier barrel on my T1X which now feels exactly like my T3X in terms of balance and weight which is nice (both in KRG Bravos)

From the picture, it looks like a 70 degree throw?
 
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Jmccracken1214

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Say what now??? Bergara doesn't make quality product??? Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you're just a troll.

I've only heard good things about Bergara. I had one of the first HMRs when they came out and it shot great.

Look like a generic Vudoo? Yes, it looks like a 40x rimfire in the HMR stock. $1,150 MSRP for a complete 700 footprint rifle. Sign me up.
He’s def a troll.
Probably never touched a bergara. Or just one of those price tag shoppers that won’t buy a rifle that doesn’t cost atleast $5000
 

ZWGunsAR

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For being a true trainer, seems like the weight is pretty good. A Bergara HMR in .308 would be around 9.7 lbs I believe, so this is pretty great. I just put on a much heavier barrel on my T1X which now feels exactly like my T3X in terms of balance and weight which is nice (both in KRG Bravos)

From the picture, it looks like a 70 degree throw?
I swore it was 90 degree just like their regular rifles, but I may be off on that. It’s been a while and I only got to toy with it for a couple of days
 

2Barrels

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View attachment 7169101
I got to test one of the prototypes in early May. I was impressed with it for the price.
So did I !! Been biting my tongue waiting for the official release. Can't wait for them to hit the street so I can have one of my own. And if down the road they offer a CF barreled version, I'll probably grab one of those too!

As ZW.. posted, not much of an ammo selection at the time - some subs, and SV stuff IIRC. Nope-the-less it performed well. I'm in the market for a mid to upper range ($$) .22LR bolt gun and this fits the bill nicely. I'd love a Vudoo but I'm short on pocket change after building a 6.5 and 300PRC. Have given some consideration to the Lithgow, but i think I'll hold out for the Bergara since I do have some time behind the trigger on one.
 
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orkan

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Looks to be an awesome option. Definitely going to put a dent in a few competing companies sales. :)
 

Frankr

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I’ll be following the possible patent infringement. Will be interesting to see if bergara is in the clear legally.
What part?

I can only think of possibly the magazine.

With the 40x being around before I don’t think there can be any patent infringement on a 40x clone.
 

2Barrels

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I’ll be following the possible patent infringement. Will be interesting to see if bergara is in the clear legally.
Pretty sure that if the potential for patent infringement existed, Bergara would have had their legal team research it and make sure they were in the clear before going forward.
 

Dthomas3523

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Pretty sure that if the potential for patent infringement existed, Bergara would have had their legal team research it and make sure they were in the clear before going forward.
I’ll see your bergara and raise you a ruag.

Bigger companies regularly infringe on patents of smaller companies as a patent is only as good as the amount of money spent to enforce it.
 

2Barrels

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You'd think the guy was sponsored by Vudoo to hate on this gun that isn't even released yet.
Haters gonna hate, no matter . . . . but then again, Nomad's a commercial supporter, which IMHO leads me to believe that he has a financial stake somewhere when it comes to Vudoo. I could be wrong, just putting 2+2 together (note- the answer is not 22).
 
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Dthomas3523

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Dthomas3523

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The other day i tried to find this patent, if you can find it please share otherwise i am fairly sure this is out of patent as it would fall under the patent:
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4079535A which is a patent for a sub caliber magazine that expired 6 years ago.
I’m not an expert on reading these by any means, but there’s this one:

Abandoned date being today seems a bit much to be coincidence. But again, I have no idea what I’m looking at.

 

OneBill

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I think this is good for us, non professional shooters on a budget... So without being disrespectful to my fellow engineer that worked on that action, I think Bergara’s product is good news for the rimfire shooting community. Open source development helped other industries to flourish whereas patents usually didn’t. My $0.02... With respect.
 

RAVAGE88

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Haters gonna hate, no matter . . . . but then again, Nomad's a commercial supporter, which IMHO leads me to believe that he has a financial stake somewhere when it comes to Vudoo. I could be wrong, just putting 2+2 together (note- the answer is not 22).
No, NOMAD has no financial stake where Vudoo is concerned, that is reserved for myself and two partners.

MB
 
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RAVAGE88

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I’m not an expert on reading these by any means, but there’s this one:

Abandoned date being today seems a bit much to be coincidence. But again, I have no idea what I’m looking at.

I abandoned this patent years ago because I developed something better, it became the V-22 Action. Now, there are two patents. The patent for the V-22 Action is through the examination process and approved for issuance, which will occur in about another two weeks. The second patent filing is for the magazine, which is also near issuance.

In short, the patent on the magazine ties up the outer form of the AICS as it relates to rimfire use. We have not been secretive about the patent status of our action and magazine, as the info has been plastered all over our web page and mentioned openly at various and appropriate times on social media. Any legal entity in the business of filing IP would have no problem seeing this info on the USPTO website.

MB
 

Dthomas3523

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I abandoned this patent years ago because I developed something better, it became the V-22 Action. Now, there are two patents. The patent for the V-22 Action is through the examination process and approved for issuance, which will occur in about another two weeks. The second patent filing is for the magazine, which is also near issuance.

In short, the patent on the magazine ties up the outer form of the AICS as it relates to rimfire use. We have not been secretive about the patent status of our action and magazine, as the info has been plastered all over our web page and mentioned openly at various and appropriate times on social media. Any legal entity in the business of filing IP would have no problem seeing this info on the USPTO website.

MB
I’m sure it’s complicated, but I’m assuming on it’s face, there’s some patent infringement possible then?
 

NateVA

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When I saw the magazine for this thing I figured it looked way too similar to a V-22 magazine to be kosher. I guess we'll see how this plays out. Personally won't be selling my Vudoo for one.
 
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2Barrels

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I think this is good for us, non professional shooters on a budget... So without being disrespectful to my fellow engineer that worked on that action, I think Bergara’s product is good news for the rimfire shooting community. Open source development helped other industries to flourish whereas patents usually didn’t. My $0.02... With respect.
Well said.
 

Hellbender

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Well said.
It might be good for you cheap ass bastards that could care less about intellectual property being stolen and hurting the small businesses that don't have the financial resources to fight a big company.

Boogera has blatantly and obviously infringed on Vudoo's magazine...PERIOD!

Do you have ANY idea how much money it would take to defend patent infringement by a foreign company???

You don't think this will impact Vudoo financially?

Look at Atlas's patents being knocked off, you don't think that hurts Kasey? Look at Black Dog's AR22 mags being knocked off by the junk copy made by CMMG!

You don't think it stifles those small companies from making new and innovative products?

Then you guys are idiots and there's nothing else to discuss.

I hope Frank bans every one of you and you all choke on your new Boogera!
 
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OneBill

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Hellbender, Forum Rules:


1. Exercise common sense and be considerate toward your fellow users. The diversity of opinion and intelligent civil discourse is encouraged; by the same token, Personal attacks, rudeness, flaming, baiting, insults to others, or arguments will not be tolerated. Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully. Any member who threatens anyone on the forum, via PM, instant messengers, or Email, will be banned immediately without notice.

5. Do not Attack Companies, members who chase down and attack any representative from any company shall be banned.
 

JaoeyP

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It might be good for you cheap ass bastards that could care less about intellectual property being stolen and hurting the small businesses that don't have the financial resources to fight a big company.

Bergara has blatantly and obviously infringed on Vudoo's magazine...PERIOD!

Do you have ANY idea how much money it would take to defend patent infringement by a foreign company???

You don't think this will impact Vudoo financially?

Look at Atlas's patents being knocked off, you don't think that hurts Kasey? Look at Black Dog's AR22 mags being knocked of by the junk copy made by CMMG?

You don't think it stifles those small companies from making new and innovative products?

Then you guys are idiots and there's nothing else to discuss.

I hope Frank bans every one of you and you all choke on your new Bergara.
You know it's possible this could be a positive event for Vudoo. If Bergara's magazine infringes on Vudoo's patent for an AICS foot print 22lr mag, some options may be for Bergara to pay a royalty to Vudoo for use of their patent or for Bergara to source their magazine from Vudoo. I can't speak for the people at Vudoo or Bergara, but either of these could happen.

People are cheap ass bastards because they won't spend the $2K to put together a Vudoo? Me and my peasant friends want to see how the new Bergara shoots.
 

Just Chuck

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Viewing this from the sidelines, IMO, this Bergara is the first entry into the "Vudoo" class rifle. There is a big gap from Tikka T1x and CZ 457's, to the Vudoo and up until Vudoo has had that niche all to themselves. Bergara is narrowing the gap and giving Vudoo competition. So, overall, I believe more choices for precision rimfire shooters is a good thing. Yes, I'm a free market, capitalist right down to the ground.

As for the infringement claims related to the magazine - lawyers would have to sort that out. Didn't Vudoo use the Remington intellectual property to develop their firearm? (patents probably expired long ago). They basically melded Rem 700, AISC mag, and 22lr, into a new entity. Not sure if any of those three are protected technologies.

Just my opinion - yours may vary.
 

OneBill

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Do you see the oxymoron here? Customers are arguing about the use of another company’s magazine design (AICS) from two other companies (Vudoo and Bergara) for a specific caliber... We should all be on the same side but yet again we found a way to be divided...