Hunting & Fishing Berger VLD bullets for hunting

[geargrinder]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buttman21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been looking into what the Berger VLD hunting bullets come packaged like. They are in a blaze orange box,and they also say hunting specificly. I dont have the hunting bullets. They ordered me the wrong bullets. </div></div>

I've yet to have an orange box for my Berger hunting bullets. The orange box is fairly new, and the "target" bullets are even newer.

If your box does not say Target then they are the hunting bullets.

 

[Gilly]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buttman21</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The source is not questionable. This speed is from lazzeronies website and 3550 ft/per second is factory load speed not custom which is faster.</div></div>
True on a 180 Gr bullet the 200 is down to 3350 on their RELOADING data so I will split the difference and give you 3400-3450 maybe. Get a chronograph and then we will know...Well you might fudge the numbers so it is what it is.
At anyrate the 168 VLD's in orange box I use with my 300 Win mag have been exceptional for all uses.

 

[Smokin99]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Dude you MISSED! LOL Besides that what are you doing shooting a hunting VLD at 3500fps??? One of 2 things happened either you missed or you bullet blew up leaving your gun! All I shoot is VLDs and killed abunch of stuff from a 62yard big deer to a 974yard monster and same result....bullet performed like it should!

 

[mjc2564]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

There was no miss. I was sold target bullets for hunting, which is the reason for the shoot through at close range. I ordered what I thought was a hunting round. It was a mistake on Wholesale Sports part.

 

[Smokin99]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Even if you shot a deer with a solid non expanding bullet that just zipped right threw a deer there would be some blood period. You missed or the bullet blew up, I dont care if you used solids or ballistic tips at that range there would be blood.... But if it makes you feel better telling yourself you hit it that fine by me! Hunting VLDs are Not to be pushed over 3200fps....theres alittle infomation for you also!

 

[esorensen]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

There used to be no differentiation in bullets from Berger. They all came in a yellow box. I'm not sure if there is any difference now other than the color of the box. The part #'s are different, maybe the jacket thickness at the nose or the hollow point is different, but the "old" match bullets have worked just fine for me for some time now.

 

[dmgreene]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

All the older VLD's in the yellow boxes were what are now called the hunting VLD's. The older boxes didn't specify hunting or target. The new target VLD's come in a yellow box and are marked TARGET and the hunting VLD's come in an orange box and are marked HUNTING. The hunting VLD's have a thinner jacket than the target bullets.

If you have VLD's in a yellow box and they are not marked TARGET then they are the hunting bullets.

If you are truly getting the velocities that you say you are getting then you are probably not going to be able to shoot them anyway. From what I have been hearing from others is that the thin jackets won't take that kind of velocity unless you are using an extremly slow twist barrel.

 

[MrButterpants]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I got dumber reading this thread.

 

[mjc2564]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Is that really possible?

 

[elkregulator]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ChadTRG42</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
+1. All the VLD's I've seen or used were almost grenade like on expansion. </div></div>

Try the 210's. The extra weight and lower velocity might help with preformance.
I've used 'em with great success in the 30-378.
Which, I believe has a similar case capacity, just a lower pressure. Bone / No-bone both caused major damage and a quick kill.

Won't hesitate to use them again.

Good luck.

 

[esorensen]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I agree. I have used the 210 in the .308 and 300 RUM also. It will do wonders for ballistics. Both from an external and terminal standpoint.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I posted some pics a while back of a coyote that I hit with a 190 Berger VLD (old style). I couldn't BELIEVE how violently it expanded, especially since it didn't catch the shoulder or anything. The bullet split the coyote from sternum to testicles. The organs were quite liquified and just fell out of him since he was split. I've NEVER seen a bullet expand quite this way, and it was a bit too much for my personal taste in hunting bullets, although great for varmints. Either way, people would have a hard time convincing me that the bullet just "ice picked" through a deer, very hard.

 

[wadevb1]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I decided to try the 168 VLD in my 300WM. I was getting inch groups at 200 yards in the 3200FPS range.I took them to Ontario for a WT hunt. I was set up for a long range hunt and of course he came broad side at 75 yards. The bullet worked as advertised and sent shrapnel through the heart and the fragments broke the opposite shoulder. I was impressed.

 

[esorensen]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

You mean like this?

This is pretty typical of damage done by VLDs pushed fast and close range. Heavy for caliber. I have some "pointed" VLDs that I was using for testing and found that the same bullet(regular VLD non pointed) driven at same speeds etc. would NOT give the same wound channel in my phone books as the non pointed ones. The tip is CLOSED. The pointed wound channel is dramatically different. ie very FMJ ish in nature.

 

[mjc2564]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

What type of rifle were you shooting these 190 grain bullets with?

 

[yotefever]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

The 7mm 168g vld Bergers worked for me again.
Got this mule deer and antelope in WY in Oct.
Put the sneek on the antelope and the deer tried to sneak away, lope 180 yds deer 562 yds. Both drt.

 

[JRWALLSIII]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I made 5 kills this week, two nice bucks

175 pound 8 point
190 plus 10
A few strays

Distances were from 40 yards to 100. Not one animal took a single step. I am VERY VERY impressed!!!!

180 VLDS at 2860 fps at the muzzle.

 

[flopduster]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I flopped two does at around 200 yds this weekend with the 155 vld at 2925fps. Both DRT with big exit wounds.

 

[H5N1]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I saw a deer shot at 40 yards this weekend with a 168 7mm vld at 2775 and was DTR. So was another one at 150 ish. Pork 'n swine didn't fare so well either exit wound size of a quarter, he was 50-60 yards.

 

[chris_p]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Has anyone tested the new target vlds on game?

I shot a 180lb hog with 140 6.5 target vld through the longs same great expansion and a coke can size hole for an exit 80 yards not a step. I shot a 100 lb deer in the shoulder at 165 yrds same thing the exit hole out of the skin was about an inch but under the skin was coke can hole through the sholder. I think the nose still blows off and the thicker jacket may help the core punch through best of both worlds if you ask me. I will be loading the 6.5 140 target vlds in my 6.5 wsm for kansas this year hope to have some more results soon.

I wanted to know just how much thicker this new jacket was so i cut a hunting and a target bullet in half melted the lead out. I polished the burs from cutting and mesured. The hunting jackets were .022 and the target were .027 so .005 thicker.

I also had some 140 accubonds and did the same. The accubonds had starting thickness of .03 at the nose and went all the way up to .05 at the base. The soild base of the accubonds was .14 thick (no wounder they hold there weight)

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

A buddy of mine shooting a 300RUM I built last year for him dropped two bucks this week with it. 210 Bergers at 3250fps, 250 yards and 180 yards. Neither bullet exited, they blew up on impact. Deer were DRT but, I'm just saying???

 

[RHutch]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I aired out a doe at 110 yards last weekend with a 190 in the 300RUM at 3241 muzzle velocity...was like kicking over a sawhorse.
Both shoulders were broken, massive internal damage, top of the heart was sheared off, and about 12 feet of goo spray out the opposite side.
Brought a smile to my face....

 

[elkregulator]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Neither bullet exited, they blew up on impact. Deer were DRT but, I'm just saying??? </div></div>

Question for everyone.... Do you think this is a bad thing in these big magnums?

I've shot (& been around) a lot of animals that have been hit with premium bullets that advertise 90% weight retention. The bullets went through them like a butter, especially if I didn't hit a major bone. How much kinetic energy is transferred and how much damage is really done?

These Bergers appear to be penetrating enough (they are for me) then causing some major damage. If it does not exit, doesn't that mean all of the energy that we like these big Mags for has been transferred to the animal and caused damage? Is there anything wrong with this?

I know most would consider the bullet "blowing up" a failure...

 

[esorensen]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

No. Not bad at all. While I have never recovered a VLD from a game animal, I think that two holes would be the best case scenario insofar as tracking is concerned. However, if there is only one hole and massive internal damage that no other premium hunting bullet could ever hope to produce under the same circumstances, in that case it's fine too. Either way, you have realized your goal of harvest. Just pick what is accurate and works for you.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Elk,

I hunt with Bergers myself so I'm not bashing. These deer were DRT but massive tissue damage was obvious. His velocity may be the culprit, at 3,250 fps, thats going to be hard on any bullet.

 

[vmts4me]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I have been wondering about velocity and the 210's.

Anyhow, here are a couple antelope with 190 VLD's, yellow box, not labeled hunting. 3080 fps from .300 Ultra, obviously not loaded hot. 93.3gr Retumbo. I have posted 2008 antelope before:

2008: 305 yards (if i remember correctly)

2009: 491 yds

 

[mjc2564]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

You hit both these animals on solid muscle or bone. At 300 yards your bullet would be alot slower velocity on impact. Both these conditions would make the bullet more prone to doing damage.

 

[coldboremiracle]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

It seems by your own description that it would be best to either slow your bullets down, or aim for solid muscle and/or bone.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

At 300 yards and closer with velocities of 3,000fps+ it's a crap shoot as to whether the bullets will exit or not. I say not.

 

[dmgreene]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Buttman21</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You hit both these animals on solid muscle or bone. At 300 yards your bullet would be alot slower velocity on impact. Both these conditions would make the bullet more prone to doing damage. </div></div>

I have never seen in any case where slowing down a bullet has made it more destructive. Where are you getting your info from?

 

[vmts4me]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Maybe I can get another pic or two of a critter taken with the same load. Only 2 weeks of season left though, so no promises.

wnroscoe you may be right. I took a muley two years ago with the same load just past 200. No exit as I recall. I guess I need to test that theory.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">wnroscoe you may be right. I took a muley two years ago with the same load just past 200. No exit as I recall. I guess I need to test that theory.

</div></div>
That’s been our experience. Even with a 7mmRM and 150 grain SGK's, with a muzzle velocity of 3,050+, at 300 yards and in it was 50/50 for an exit wound.

With my 300 Jarret launching bullets of various weights from 165/168/175 at 3,390 to 3,480fps, exit wounds were few and far between. The only two that ever exited was a 165 Nosler Partition and 168 Nosler Combined Tech. The rest never found even a trace and no exit.

Based on numerous rifles, calibers and bullets, in the range of 3,000fps and 300 yards and in unless it's a Partition, BarnesX, Triple Shock, E-Tip or Bonded Core it's 50/50 for an exit wound. I've even killed at 400 yards with the Jarret and the 165 Accubonds, with no exit.

My current rifle, 7/300wsm with 180 Bergers at 2,900fps. So far, all kills have had exit wounds and no blow ups, even a 200lb+ bore hog with a headshot at 120 yards.

 

[vmts4me]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Well then no need for me to do any theory testing Roscoe. Sounds like you have her nailed down.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lancer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well then no need for me to do any theory testing Roscoe. Sounds like you have her nailed down.

</div></div>

Thats just our results, test away and post your results. My cousin started shoting a 7mmSTW last year with the 162 AMAXS, very soft bullet, very aggressive expansion. He switched to the 175SGK and slowed it down some and had much better results. He swithced to the 150 grain Nosler E-Tip this year and so far it's punching through everything just fine.

Next year I'll build him a 7mm RSAUM and he'll be shooting the 180 Bergers at 2,900ish fps. I still have 3 doe tags to fill, maybe this weekend I'll make one famous. The bucks are chasing right now so it's hard for me to dent that primer.

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Got a call today from a friend that shoots a 6.5x284. He uses 140 VLD Bergers @ 3,040fps and shot a deer two days ago at 200 yards. Shot #1, nothing, shot #2 deer jumped up and kicked back with it's hind legs. Gut shot came to mind. He shot the rifle today and it's dead nuts on the money.

They tracked the deer for two hours with a dog and never found it. Only had a small amount of blood and brown hair. Makes you wonder??

 

[B.Bates]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

roscoe,

did the guy with the 6.5x284 have the hunting vld bullets loaded up?

sounds like he might of been shooting the target ones, i have heard then pencil right through game, dont open up a bit

 

[mjc2564]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

sarcasm eh, If a person dont experience it themselves does not mean it didnt happen. I was nowhere near shooting the guts.

 

[trilogymac]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Anybody have a game performance report on the 75gr VLD .224?

Thanks,
Trilogymac

 

[wnroscoe]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shootone</div><div class="ubbcode-body">roscoe,

did the guy with the 6.5x284 have the hunting vld bullets loaded up?

sounds like he might of been shooting the target ones, i have heard then pencil right through game, dont open up a bit
</div></div>

I asked that very question, he said he had the "orange box" 140's

 

[mjc2564]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I Shot another 4 point with my .308 Warbird a week ago using 190 grain Berger VlD bullets. I had my friend with his regular .308 rifle for back-up. I shot once at about 75 yards. The deer kept walking like nothing happened. So my buddy shot, and the animal went down in its tracks to a nosler partition 180 grain bullet. When taking the hide off, it was just what I expected there was a pencil in entry and exit hole in the lung area of the deer.

 

[eddybo]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I have shot several deer and a couple hogs with the 168 7mm vld from a 7WSM. About as good a performance for a whitetail bullet as I have seen. I have yet to recover more than shrapnel, the bullet shank and core always exited.

 

[Crazy Dog ll]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

The Truth: I'd says okay on deer and smaller varmits. We shot at a steel one inch plate at one hundred yards. The riflw was a Remmy .300 WM with 180 hunting bullets and paper targets bullets. The paper target bullets made a mere shallow cater while the hunting bullets dug a hole 1/2 inch deep,all shooting was done at a hundred yards. Says alot.

 

[Tomcat088]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got a call today from a friend that shoots a 6.5x284. He uses 140 VLD Bergers @ 3,040fps and shot a deer two days ago at 200 yards. Shot #1, nothing, shot #2 deer jumped up and kicked back with it's hind legs. Gut shot came to mind. He shot the rifle today and it's dead nuts on the money.

They tracked the deer for two hours with a dog and never found it. Only had a small amount of blood and brown hair. Makes you wonder?? </div></div>

A week ago I shot my first deer with the 190 grain Berger's moving 3,100 fps from my .300 WSM. I bought these before they made the "hunting" bullets, so it's a yellow box. From what I've read, the "old" bergers are the now "hunting" bullets, and the new target bullets have a thicker jacket.

Shot the doe at 378 yards (LRF), and I knew I got a solid hit. Spotter said that she buckled down and kicked with the back legs. I was thinking "no way in hell I gut shot that deer," because I had been shooting great groups at 500 yards (1 3/4") the day before in tricky wind. That morning all I had was a headwind right in my face. The deer ran 75 yards and then she layed down, I was just going to give her a little time before I went to get her. Then she gets up and stumbles another 25 yards into some small trees. I was a little worried, but I gave her a little more time and went to get her.

I had hit her right where I thought, right behind the shoulder 1/3 of the way up the body (bottom third). The bullet expanded quite violently, I believe maybe too violent for my personal preference. The bullet DID exit on the backside ribs, leaving a exit would that was around 4" in diameter. It was a perfect hit, I only found pieces of her heart and the lungs were liquified, tons of blood to trail. I was surprised that she got up and ran as far as she did because the wound was mortal, but I guess she was determined. Either way, the bullet performed EXACTLY as advertised for me; great expansion and a good clean kill.

 

[patriot338]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I shot a doe at 510 yards yesterday with a 210gr VLD hunting bullet from a 300RUM. The doe didn't run after the shot, She just stood there for a second then fell over. She was slightly quatering away. The bullet didn't exit and I couldn't even find the entrance hole until I gutted her. There was no blood at all just a little on her mouth. I hit here just behind the ribs and found a small piece of lead under the skin in her ribcage on the opposite side. The vitals were just liquified and it did the job, but I didn't think it would fragment like this. If she had ran I would even have known I it her. This is the first deer I have shot with these bullets. I think I will try them on a few more before I have a strong oppinion.

 

[elkregulator]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body">190 grain Berger's moving 3,100 fps from my .300 WSM. </div></div>

Tomcat088- What is your barrel length and load?

With a 26" barrel, 2950fps has been pushing the limit for me.

-Thanks-

 

[Niles Coyote]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: elkregulator</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body">190 grain Berger's moving 3,100 fps from my .300 WSM. </div></div>

Tomcat088- What is your barrel length and load?

With a 26" barrel, 2950fps has been pushing the limit for me.

-Thanks- </div></div>

Yes, please, with a 24" I'm 2875ish with H4350 and standard win rifle primers.

 

[Siso]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I've been reading all I can about the hunting VLD's and decided to try them this year. I used a 140gr 6.5mm Berger VLD at 2810fps to shoot a doe at 395yds. Bullet went in, blew up the lungs and left a decent size exit hole. I can't complain. I'm actually surprised that some people are having pass throughs with them.

 

[boeger42]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

I use 150 grain Accubonds in .308 to kill deer. I do so because I shoot deer at 9k feet, no-one wants to chase them at that altitude, and there are usually multiple animals around. I was skeptical but it was proven to me that following the ballistics is always the best bet. The ballistics calculator I use gives a momentum, ft lbs of energy downrange, and recommended animal weight at varying ranges based on bullet weight, velocity, BC, etc. My load is rated for a 200 lb animal at 420 yards. I've never had a pass through and have never been disappointed with a reasonably placed shot. Retrieved bullets are always mushroomed to the max and just on the verge of fragmenting but most of the metal is still intact, but I never weighed one.

There is a long range show that uses VLD's exclusively and they pass through regularly at ranges out to 900+, even on heavy game. I have to wonder if they pass through at those ranges, sometimes even through both shoulders, what's their performance like at max velocity? I believe the manufacturer mentions something about no performance increase at less than 300 yards?

I plan to work up some loads in the next year using VLD's so I might change my mind. I believe that the VLD's are more for long range accuracy and less for short range performance. That said keep in mind that there is no substitute for a well placed shot.

Another possibility is that animals are just like people. Sometimes parts aren't exactly where they're supposed to be, but it's a "long shot"...pun intended.

 

[Mudcat-NC]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Took two more deer with Bergers this season so far. One doe at 40 yards, thru neck, dropped in her tracks. 95VLD in a 243. The other, today, 150 yrds, doe, 90BT in the 243 (ran out of 95VLD loads), thru right shoulder out rib, took out both lungs, including some hanging out side, jumped, went 30 yrds into woods spraying blood all over the snow covered ground. Didnt have to track her but if I did, my 8 yr old could have followed the trail in the dark!

Thats now 10 deer with Bergers and that was the first one to ever take a step after being hit by a Berger. I have killed them with VLDs and several with the 90BT.

I will never go back to any other bullet.

John

 

[dmgreene]

Re: Berger VLD bullets for hunting

Killed a doe today using a 6.5 140 Berger. She was a little over 100 yards and the shot just missed the shoulder. She ran about 40 yards. There was no exit wound or blood trail. This is the first deer I have had run with this bullet. How this deer ran is a mystery to me. There was nothing left intact inside of the rib cage and I recovered the bullet just under the skin on the opposite side. It was mushroomed but there probably wasn't 25% of the bullet left.