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Rifle Scopes Best 2-10 ish ffp

garmil

garmil

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 20, 2018
518
52
Washington
#1
Looking in the 2-10 range whats the best option? People seem to like the glass from the philliipines in the PST and xtr. Not much input out there on the tango 6 or Vudu. Any others I'm missing that should be considered?

PST gen ii 2-10
Xtr ii. 2-10
Tango 6 2-12
Vudu 2.5-10
 
#7
I have a Vortex PST GenII 2-10x32 on a DMR-style carbine. I had the GenI 2.5-10 with the illum bump on the ocular piece. the image was ok but nothing spectacular. I felt the reticle was too small at 2.5x to use without illum so I sold it and mounted a SWFA 1-6.

the GenII model is better in every way except for weight. it's gained a few ounces but I can live with that given the improvements. the illum control was moved to the parallax turret and is daylight bright, the glass is excellent, the RTZ is superior to the first Gen system, and the turrets are excellent as well.

IMO, this is close to the perfect short-medium range optic...
 
#8
Tango6 is a nice scope, but the 2-12x has been discontinued when they went to Gen2.

US Optics is a potentially interesting option and I am thinking of looking at one. The original model had a fair bit of tunnelling at the bottom, which I do not like with scopes of this type. It was effectively a 3.5-10 or something along those lines. I wonder if they fixed it with the B-10 re-incarnation.

Between the PST Gen 2 and XTR II, with the 2-10x models I prefere the Burris. I think a 42mm objective is a meaningful improvement ove r a 32mm one and in this case, there is not weight penalty.

I would have preferred either scope is they had a simplified Christmas tree reticle, but no luck there for now.

ILya
 
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#10
I know it’s a little more power than you were asking about, but I really,
Really like the NF SHV 4-14 F1. It’s about $1k I believe street price, or lightly used. It has EXCELLENT glass, I believe it’s NSX glass, solid illumination, good, simple mil or moa reticle, usable power Range, dead nuts RTZ, and not particularly heavy. I have owned or currently own scopes from Vortex, S&B, Primary Arms Platinum, Burris XTRII, and have T&E’d Bushnell Elite Tactical, and Leupold MK6. So, I’ve seen quite a bit of glass. I believe the NF SHV, in that price range of scopes, is a great deal. I have mine on a DD 16” .308, and have taken it out to 850 in a decent breeze. I found the whole package to be very usable, and it isn’t much more than the Vortex. In MY opinion, anything under the Razor line from Vortex is suspect. I know....warranty, warranty, but the best warranty is one you never use. With the Vortex, your odds go up that you will use it. At my job, we teach a DMR Rifle Class. We use LPV scopes from 1-4 through 1-8’s. Out of all the different brands, the one that has gone down the most, is the Vortex Strike Buzzard (Eagle). We have since dropped them from the approved list because of the higher than average failure rate.
 
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#11
I have a 2-10 Weaver tactical that I like quite a bit considering the price. Could save a good bit of cash with one of those, but that is a discontinued optic from a company that doesn't have a Vortexesque warranty.
 
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#17
I know it ain’t quite a 2-10, but check out the SWFA 3-9x42. Very usable rifle scope and durable for $600. Just get one of TimK’s zero stop kits and you’ll be good to go. Haven’t had experience with the listed scopes (regretably) but the SS 3-9 I had was a great optic and comes in at about 20oz.
 
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#18
I'll second the little SS 3-9x42. For what you pay (and they can often be found between $400-500 used), they're a great bargain if you just need a simple scope to beat around. They don't have many fancy features (no zero stop, but TimK's shims work well, no illumination, and no parallax adjustment), but they're clear, the reticles are usable (mildot or milquad), they're proven to track well, and they're made like tanks.

I've also used a PST Gen1 2.5-10x32, HS LR 2.5-10x32, and a Burris XTRII. The PST was light and fit my application perfectly (I needed a 32mm objective to clear a rear sight on a little CZ527FS), but the illumination wouldn't be trusted. The HS LR is basically the same scope with capped MOA turrets, a MOA tree reticle, and no illumination. And the Burris was also a little tank, but was too big/heavy for what I needed (that 34mm tube is pretty big on smaller rifles!), but it was also very robust.

Of the four I've mentioned, I'd most recomment the SS 3-9x42 or the Burris XTRII unless the Gen1 PST offers something you need (small and light, mainly). I haven't had a chance to really use a PST Gen2 product yet, so I can't speak to them.
 
#19
For what it is worth, I own two SS 3-9x42 scopes and like them immensely. They are excellent scopes in terms of optics and mechanics. They are not as feature rich as some newer designs, but they works exceedingly well.

For around $600, there is really nothing like it. Once you are wiling to step up in price, my recommendation is XTR II 2-10x42.

ILya
 
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#20
I currently have a PST Gen 2 1-6 and like it I just want more magnification.

Will be used for 3 gun with an offset red dot so no need for the 1x. Will be using the reticle for holdovers, likely won't touch the turrets other than sighting in.

Thanks for all the options I hadn't thought of.
 
#22
koshkin said:
Tango6 is a nice scope, but the 2-12x has been discontinued when they went to Gen2.

US Optics is a potentially interesting option and I am thinking of looking at one. The original model had a fair bit of tunnelling at the bottom, which I do not like with scopes of this type. It was effectively a 3.5-10 or something along those lines. I wonder if they fixed it with the B-10 re-incarnation.

Between the PST Gen 2 and XTR II, with the 2-10x models I prefere the Burris. I think a 42mm objective is a meaningful improvement ove r a 32mm one and in this case, there is not weight penalty.

I would have preferred either scope is they had a simplified Christmas tree reticle, but no luck there for now.

ILya
Click to expand...
Unfortunately b 10 does tunnel. I have one. Tunnels between 1.8 to 4 ish. I do like it though. Nice crisp glass. Turrets are solid.
 
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#24
garmil said:
Found a good deal on the Vudu 2.5-10x44 so I went for it. Hopefully it's nice since it is made in Japan just wish there was more input on them out there.
Click to expand...

Would love to hear how you like it. My first impressions of them were very positive, was impressed that L3 made something like that, but don't have the runtime on them to stack them next to other makes.
 
#29
koshkin said:
Maybe I should start collecting votes. I have been making this plea to every optics manufacturer who would pretend to listen for quite some time now.

ILya
Click to expand...

The little Vortex Viper HS LR 2.5-10x32 FFP with the XLR reticle I had for awhile was a great scope, but I let it go because it was in MOA. If Vortex would put a version of the EBR-2C in their Gen2 PST 2-10x, it would be an excellent option as well. The grid is hard to see/use below 7x or so, but the rest of the reticle is fine down to 4-5x and becomes a duplex below that. Works great!
 
#31
Curious on this thread too. Does anyone have any first hand experience with the Tango 6 2-12 compared to the PST Gen II 2-10? Kinda torn here.

I can get them both for around the same price and they'd likely sit on a .223 SPR.
 
#32
I bought a new USO B10 a month ago and I'm really happy with it. I have it on an AR15 and like that I can dial it down to 1.8x for close up and the crosshairs go from edge to edge so you don't lose it. Plus turn on the illumination and it's kind of like a low power combat sight. I have it in a Badger uni-mount and it's not cramped as far as eye relief goes. Zero stop with no tool re-zero is nice
 
#34
There's a real shortage of optics in this size range. Looking at options for a .223 bolt action at the moment and there's not much good choice!
 
#35
Bevan said:
There's a real shortage of optics in this size range. Looking at options for a .223 bolt action at the moment and there's not much good choice!
Click to expand...

You're right about that. I think with an accurate AR15 like so many today a 6x or 8x leaves a lot on the table. Maybe it's just me with degrading eyesight, my buddies 8x TS30A2 (Mk12 optic) is not enough. I miss the Nightforce 2.5-10x32. To me that is about perfect for lan SPR AR15 or even a light bolt action hunting rifle.
 
#38
I don’t know, I tend to disagree about there not being many out there. IMO, some of the new 1-8’s are so solid, I don’t think you’re giving up much, if anything to a 2-10. I have the NF NX8, and have shot the Bushnell 1-8.5 Elite Tactical. I also have the Primary Arms Platinum 1-8 with the ACSS reticle. I seriously don’t think the 8X on the top is so much of a handicap over the 10x. Plus, with the speed and usability of the 1X on the bottom, I think for a 5.56/.223 DMR scope, these will get out to the edge of what 5.56 is capable of. I can pretty easily get out to 500-600 with a solid 8X. I don’t personally think the extra 2x on the top is going to make the difference of a hit or a total miss.
In the 2-10 or 2.5-10 there are the NF, the Burris, Vortex PST, and I’m sure at least a couple more that I’m not thinking of. Seems like a decent offering to me. Everyone is going to have an opinion, and I really enjoy SH because I like to read other’s opinions. I just don’t think we are hurting in this power band. In fact, I think this is a golden time of growth and there are some AMAZING scopes being produced right now.
 
#39
True points, the 1-8x are eclipsing the 2-10 type. That said, from what I can gather, a 2-10/2.5-10 is going to be easier to get behind and more forgiving due to a less complex erector system. For lower powered erector systems, there usually seems to be a correlation with lighter weight.

Also 4-5x erectors are going to be more economical due to engineering and gerneral physics. Based on reticle pictures I’ve seen, a 4-5x erector generally has a reticle that is more usuable in the given power range. Granted my last point can be overcome with smart reticle design, generally at the negative of more expense.

But I’m speaking without much practice in this, just relaying information I have gathered.
 
#41
PBWalsh said:
True points, the 1-8x are eclipsing the 2-10 type. That said, from what I can gather, a 2-10/2.5-10 is going to be easier to get behind and more forgiving due to a less complex erector system. For lower powered erector systems, there usually seems to be a correlation with lighter weight.

Also 4-5x erectors are going to be more economical due to engineering and gerneral physics. Based on reticle pictures I’ve seen, a 4-5x erector generally has a reticle that is more usuable in the given power range. Granted my last point can be overcome with smart reticle design, generally at the negative of more expense.

But I’m speaking without much practice in this, just relaying information I have gathered.
Click to expand...

Ther eis a fundamental difference in that all of the current 1-8x scopes have a smallish 24mm objective, while the 2-10x scopes have an objective in the 32-42mm range. That makes the latter category scope notably better at high magnification.

If you are looking for a 1-8x design, the basic assumption is that you will be spending at least half of your time on 1x. If you are not, you are better off with a 2-10x42 and a red dot in a 45 degree mount of some sort.

Modern 1-8x scopes are very impressively good at 8x and I have taken a couple of them out to 1000yards on plates. It is very impressive how capable they are at 8x. However, high magnification performance is still somewhat compromsie in order to enable 1x.

ILya
 
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#42
garmil said:
Looking in the 2-10 range whats the best option? People seem to like the glass from the philliipines in the PST and xtr. Not much input out there on the tango 6 or Vudu. Any others I'm missing that should be considered?

PST gen ii 2-10
Xtr ii. 2-10
Tango 6 2-12
Vudu 2.5-10
Click to expand...

I can only comment on the NF 2.5-10x24, and the Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44, which replaced it. I used them on a short barreled AR-15 in 223, mostly for hunting and steel out to 800Y. Just would like to give my thoughts on each to hopefully help in some way.

Keeping it short, I liked the Bushnell way better in practicality. Most people will hardly use 2x-3x power and obviously there isn't much difference in FOV between 2.5x and 3x, speculating the same between 2x and 3x. Instead I was at top magnification most of the time.

My impression was 12x was enough different than 10x, to want 12x every time. It wouldn't seem so on paper but I was more confident or pleased at 12x.

Then there's the FFP, side focus, 10 mil knobs, rev lines, superior glass and reticle, etc of the Bushnell. I did like the higher build quality, lightweight, and daylight bright illume on the NF but much preferred the Bushnell on top of that upper.

OT a little, but I'd be looking at 3-15's/18's or back off to "1-8's, depending how far you usually shoot", or for the ultimate add an RD to use with a higher mag scope like Ilya mentioned.

For me, since 70 grainers in 223 are only going 2650 fps, and I'll be shooting 3gun with it, this AR will have a 1-8 on it from now on. I've shot plenty with this upper from 700Y to 1100Y, and decided doing so was a bit too challenging if there was wind. Yeah, I'll just try to stay inside 700Y with it. 1x for close, or match FOV to situation 2-3-4x, or 8x for medium to long range.

Fortunately I have my 6mmFatRat upper for farther distances, I currently use a 4-14x44 Talos BTR on it, which will be changed out ASAP to the Ares 4.5-27x50.
 
#43
steve123 said:
I can only comment on the NF 2.5-10x24, and the Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44, which replaced it. I used them on a short barreled AR-15 in 223, mostly for hunting and steel out to 800Y. Just would like to give my thoughts on each to hopefully help in some way.

Keeping it short, I liked the Bushnell way better in practicality. Most people will hardly use 2x-3x power and obviously there isn't much difference in FOV between 2.5x and 3x, speculating the same between 2x and 3x. Instead I was at top magnification most of the time.

My impression was 12x was enough different than 10x, to want 12x every time. It wouldn't seem so on paper but I was more confident or pleased at 12x.

Then there's the FFP, side focus, 10 mil knobs, rev lines, superior glass and reticle, etc of the Bushnell. I did like the higher build quality, lightweight, and daylight bright illume on the NF but much preferred the Bushnell on top of that upper.

OT a little, but I'd be looking at 3-15's/18's or back off to "1-8's, depending how far you usually shoot", or for the ultimate add an RD to use with a higher mag scope like Ilya mentioned.

For me, since 70 grainers in 223 are only going 2650 fps, and I'll be shooting 3gun with it, this AR will have a 1-8 on it from now on. I've shot plenty with this upper from 700Y to 1100Y, and decided doing so was a bit too challenging if there was wind. Yeah, I'll just try to stay inside 700Y with it. 1x for close, or match FOV to situation 2-3-4x, or 8x for medium to long range.

Fortunately I have my 6mmFatRat upper for farther distances, I currently use a 4-14x44 Talos BTR on it, which will be changed out ASAP to the Ares 4.5-27x50.
Click to expand...

Which 1-8x do you plan to use?

ILya
 
#45
Iggles2017 said:
Unfortunately b 10 does tunnel. I have one. Tunnels between 1.8 to 4 ish. I do like it though. Nice crisp glass. Turrets are solid.
Click to expand...

@koshkin

It does tunnel, but the tunneling ends before the 2.5x mark. I'd call it ~2.2x. Certainly way before 4x. I just picked one up last week so I have B10 on the brain. I agree that the turrets are very nice. Erek2 is the best elevation turret of any I own. I don't own a TT, so...
 
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#46
2bits said:
@koshkin

It does tunnel, but the tunneling ends before the 2.5x mark. I'd call it ~2.2x. Certainly way before 4x. I just picked one up last week so I have B10 on the brain. I agree that the turrets are very nice. Erek2 is the best elevation turret of any I own. I don't own a TT, so...
Click to expand...
I trust your analysis when tunneling ends. Wasn't quite sure. Don't you think glass is very solid? Not a huge fan of using screw tightening for zero stop.
 
#47
Iggles2017 said:
I trust your analysis when tunneling ends. Wasn't quite sure. Don't you think glass is very solid? Not a huge fan of using screw tightening for zero stop.
Click to expand...
B-10 glass is good, but I’m unsure how it compares to the competition. In side by side viewing, my Minox ZP5 5-25 is a big step above in every way optically which is expected. I haven’t yet compared to my other mid mag scopes.

I really want to find a B-25 to compare to my Minox, but that’s another thread.
 
#48
Ilya and Birddog are, as always, correct about where the 1-8 and 2-10 are made.

I'd also point out that the 1-8 also is available in your choice of front or rear FP. I really prefer the RFP on this size, but unlike Ilya, I can't shoot anywhere near 1000 yards with a 8x, so I'm just using it short range.

Why no MIL based SCR on 2-10? Cuz it looked like shit (that may not be the official marketing explanation). But basically, we have not yet been able to adapt a good, full-featured SCR reticle for that magnification range. Lines are very close.
 
#49
GeoffatBurris said:
Ilya and Birddog are, as always, correct about where the 1-8 and 2-10 are made.

I'd also point out that the 1-8 also is available in your choice of front or rear FP. I really prefer the RFP on this size, but unlike Ilya, I can't shoot anywhere near 1000 yards with a 8x, so I'm just using it short range.

Why no MIL based SCR on 2-10? Cuz it looked like shit (that may not be the official marketing explanation). But basically, we have not yet been able to adapt a good, full-featured SCR reticle for that magnification range. Lines are very close.
Click to expand...

On using 8x at 1000yards: you should really try it. You can see a man sized targets with a good 8x scope quite easily a click out.
On SCR Mil in 2-10x: it is really easy to adapt it to a lower mag scope. It would not be identical, but similar enough.

ILya
 
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