Hi guys. Im trying to decide on what cartridge to go with. It will be used for medium to long range (200-1000+ yards) target/steel shooting. I already have a 700 short action for 308 so it has to be a short action cartridge and having the parent case be 308 would be nice too. I would like ideas to be based on things like barrel life, ammo availability, ammo variety and cost, reloading variety and cost, best BC, longest range, etc. Any input is greatly appreciated.
- Thread starter ShooterMcGavin86
- Start date
"barrel life, ammo availability, ammo variety and cost, reloading variety and cost, best BC, longest range"? haha, you can have like 2-3 of those, not all. Off the top of my head with a .308 parent case 260AI. Or go crazy custom with 6.5SAUM.
There's going to be a lot of suggestions, though.
There's going to be a lot of suggestions, though.
Asking what the "best" cartridge is here is like asking where the best place to eat in New York is, lots of opinions.
I'll start by asking a few questions;
-do you currently reload
-what do you consider adequate barrel life
6.5cm is the bees knees right now, so that's the answer many will give. The 6mms will have the highest BC and velocity giving the flattest trajectory, but barrel life is the payoff.
260, 243, 6.5cm, 6cm, many more to choose from. I would do some (a lot) of reading, there are a few good articles that run all the calibers mentioned side by side and give a fairly non-biased opinion of what works and why.
I'll start by asking a few questions;
-do you currently reload
-what do you consider adequate barrel life
6.5cm is the bees knees right now, so that's the answer many will give. The 6mms will have the highest BC and velocity giving the flattest trajectory, but barrel life is the payoff.
260, 243, 6.5cm, 6cm, many more to choose from. I would do some (a lot) of reading, there are a few good articles that run all the calibers mentioned side by side and give a fairly non-biased opinion of what works and why.
I do reload, but I just started doing it. As far as barrel life, I added that because I have read that some cartridges eat up the barrel faster. Im not sure how much faster because im relatively new to this. Im a very cost conscious person and like to get the most bang for my buck. So I guess im looking for something in the middle. Not the best cartridge if its going to cost a lot more to shoot, and not the worst cartridge if its going to be less fun to shoot.
For me, the 6mms are where it's at. For a gas gun, the 6Creed is great because you can seat the pills out to proper length. If you're shooting a bolt gun with a longer magazine length, then the 6.5 Creed or 260 is nice. Still, I prefer the 6Creed or 6XC or most of my SA shooting.
What is "Best" depends on your use and what tradeoffs you're willing to make. Everyone's "Best" is a bit different.
You need to honestly determine how far you're going to shoot consistently. If the large majority of your shooting is <700yds, square range stuff, then the .308Win properly loaded will suit your needs very nicely. You can hotrod it a bit by shooting 155's and stay on the heals of the 6.5's.
If you're going to shoot consistently beyond 700yds, then a 6.5 or 6mm come into their own, at the expense of shorter barrel life. You state you're a "cost conscious" person; if you shoot quite often, then barrels are totally consumable items, with the 6mm lasting the shortest. Budget about $500 for each barrel, regardless of the cartridge.
I would recommend you shoot the barrel out of your .308Win learning to shoot and reload. But if you're dead set then the 6.5mm Creedmoor or .260Rem would be my picks.
You need to honestly determine how far you're going to shoot consistently. If the large majority of your shooting is <700yds, square range stuff, then the .308Win properly loaded will suit your needs very nicely. You can hotrod it a bit by shooting 155's and stay on the heals of the 6.5's.
If you're going to shoot consistently beyond 700yds, then a 6.5 or 6mm come into their own, at the expense of shorter barrel life. You state you're a "cost conscious" person; if you shoot quite often, then barrels are totally consumable items, with the 6mm lasting the shortest. Budget about $500 for each barrel, regardless of the cartridge.
I would recommend you shoot the barrel out of your .308Win learning to shoot and reload. But if you're dead set then the 6.5mm Creedmoor or .260Rem would be my picks.
Thanks for the info guys. I realize that "best" is a subjective term but thats kind of the point. Im looking for peoples opinions on what cartridge they think is "best" based on my planed use and concerns that I stated above.
This was the plan I chose to put into action; learn to be accurate and consistent at 700 and under while I get my system and reload equip setup with the .308. Then chose one of the 6's to transition to and start relearning technique and reloading data to go out to 800 to 1200. I like the plan for its simplicity and the skills I will learn while implementing it.
308, 7mm 08, 260, 243, 6.5CM, 6CM, take your pic. My top choice is the 260 with the 7mm 08 in a very close second.
To the OP,
The reasoning of advising to stick with the .308Win is:
-It is a very easy cartridge to reload and develop an accurate load.
-There is a INFINITE amount of institutional knowledge in getting the .308Win to shoot accurately.
-Components are plentiful and most cost effective.
-Barrel life is long and forgiving.
-If you can shoot a .308Win well, then a 6.5/6 will be snap.
I've seen many new shooters with a 6.5mm or 6mm burn half the barrel life doing load development or chasing their zero. Load development for them is more involved and you have to be more conscious of throat wear/maintenance/neck tension, etc. Usually too many variables to juggle when still learning how to shoot well. Also, since the 6.5/6's have significantly less recoil, they allow you to develop some bad habits, which would not be tolerated in a .308Win. YMMV.
The reasoning of advising to stick with the .308Win is:
-It is a very easy cartridge to reload and develop an accurate load.
-There is a INFINITE amount of institutional knowledge in getting the .308Win to shoot accurately.
-Components are plentiful and most cost effective.
-Barrel life is long and forgiving.
-If you can shoot a .308Win well, then a 6.5/6 will be snap.
I've seen many new shooters with a 6.5mm or 6mm burn half the barrel life doing load development or chasing their zero. Load development for them is more involved and you have to be more conscious of throat wear/maintenance/neck tension, etc. Usually too many variables to juggle when still learning how to shoot well. Also, since the 6.5/6's have significantly less recoil, they allow you to develop some bad habits, which would not be tolerated in a .308Win. YMMV.
I think the key to accuracy is consistency. For me, that means reloading, most people here likely reload (because you'll seldom find enough factory ammo on the exact same type and consistency).
Since your budget conscious, reloading isn't inexpensive but it does allow you to almost always have consistent quality ammo on hand.
If you can stomach the start up costs of reloading, next is the rifle and caliber. I prefer something lighter than 168 gr. .308 (since I shoot almost every weekend and often varmint hunt without a spotter). I'd rather shoot 200-250 rounds of 85-120 grain and it's available in calibers .243 and 6.5, and .260. 6.5CM is almost identical to 260, but I gave the nod to .260 because .260 has Lapua brass, 6.5CM doesn't. (personal preference for Lapua)
Keep in mind that every caliber you add costs at least a few hundred dollars in bullets,cases, and powders, so a .243 might complement a .308 nicely.
Since your budget conscious, reloading isn't inexpensive but it does allow you to almost always have consistent quality ammo on hand.
If you can stomach the start up costs of reloading, next is the rifle and caliber. I prefer something lighter than 168 gr. .308 (since I shoot almost every weekend and often varmint hunt without a spotter). I'd rather shoot 200-250 rounds of 85-120 grain and it's available in calibers .243 and 6.5, and .260. 6.5CM is almost identical to 260, but I gave the nod to .260 because .260 has Lapua brass, 6.5CM doesn't. (personal preference for Lapua)
Keep in mind that every caliber you add costs at least a few hundred dollars in bullets,cases, and powders, so a .243 might complement a .308 nicely.
Last edited:
I disagree with those that advocate starting with a 308 and here's why.
Every shot you take at long range that has some sort of feedback whether that be steel, misses in dirt or paper is filed into the back of your memory as a reference for all future shots. This feedback helps you to develop a "intuition" for what the wind is doing, how it affects the bullet and where you'l decide to aim to hit your target. Being that a typical load for 308 will blow almost twice as much in the wind as many other chamberings and those shots will be stored as a reference in your mind the transition to 7mm, 6.5 or 6 to me is nothing but a set back later on.
If you plan on shooting precision rifle matches/sniper type matches then you'll need a 6mm, 6.5, or 7mm to be competitive for a top finish, moreso the farther the bullet gets away from the barrel. I see this nearly every time I go to my local match. We shoot a hard steel course out to 1080Y. I've witnessed 3 new shooter"s" 0 the course and some of the most prestigious firearms instructors in the world finish only 3/4 the way up on the roster, all shooting 308. One particularly windy day I watched these guys holdoff and/or dial(not enough reticle) 5-6 mils into the wind at the 1080Y steel netting a "no joy". I heldoff 2.5 mil with my 6x47L and hit it both shots.
Reloading...Uh, developing a load for just about any cartridge in a accurate rifle is not hard nor takes a excessive amount of rounds to achieve. With my 2cnd to last 6x47L heavy barrel I was done in less that 50 rounds and could have chosen "the" load in 20 rounds but tested and retested again. My the other medium weight barrel I used the same load to put ten shots into .5" - one ragged hole so really no load development.
Okay, the downside for 6mm is barrel life, expect approx 2000 rounds for less than 1 moa. Add another 1000 shots for 6.5 and another 1000 for 7-08 or similar, these "ARE" approximates. I've read about a few guys here on the Hide getting only 4000 out of their 308's being pushed but up to 10,000 for normal loads. I deem 6.5 the most advantageous in compromise for barrel life, competitive edge in the wind and recoil force. Although 6mm is the dominant caliber for top finishers in the PRS series.
I've found that using tangent ogive or Berger hybrid bullets greatly take the hassle out of tuning loads as the throat wears forward.
Marksmanship skills when it comes to "form" can be learned with a pellet gun or a rimfire. No need to waist ammo using a centerfire. There's no better training aid for learning form than shooting a air rifle IMO.
Why???, you can shoot it in your house or on your property, you get instant feedback every shot exposing any, all weaknesses in form and it's a heck of a lot of fun! Take that one step farther and shoot your centerfire just like you shoot the air rifle and you are GTG.
6.5x47L is a fantastic little cartridge, I'll stick to 6x47L though. Brass life is almost unbelievable! 6.5Saum is a ultra fantastic cartridge, brass life isn't the greatest but the cartridge is awesome. Personally I'd want 10 round mags for it before I built one for practical precision matches.
It's not possible to answer this question. You have to put a priority somewhere for us to guide you. Good barrel life and ammo availability would have me point you to a 308 shooting 175s/178s, but you're not going to get the best BC or range. Generally speaking, there is no free lunch. If you want a hot rod, high performing cartridge, then you're going to have to get something exotic (e.g., 6.5 SAUM) or a real burner (6mm shooting 105s or 115s at ~ 3050 fps).
So, do you reload? Are you more interested in ballistic performance and the advantages offered by a high speed competition cartridge or do you want something that has has better barrel life and availability? Are you going to compete with it and what types of competitions would it be used in?
A lot of folks will tell you to start off with a .308, and they are not incorrect (in my opinion). That being said, while I have (or have had) .260s, 6mm Rems, .243s etc., I still, after 35 years of playing the game, shoot a .308 more frequently than all other short action cartridges combines when it comes to bolt guns.
The .308 is sort of like a Chevy 350 motor in a 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup. It is not the biggest, fastest, sleekest or newest. That being said, it does a lot of things very well and with many great projectiles such as Lapua Scenars in various weights, such as the Palma 155s, it is pretty much never a bad answer. A guy could start with and stick with a .308 and shoot one rifle/one load and really learn your rifle, exterior ballistics, etc, to the point of being able to do just about anything that can reasonably be done. The huge bonus is that 1x fired brass is plentiful and .30 cal bullets are some of the least expensive, especially when compared to 6.5mm projectiles.
If I were to only run one short action cartridge for LR target shooting, hunting etc., it would without question be the proven .308.
good luck and safe shooting.
The .308 is sort of like a Chevy 350 motor in a 1/2 ton 4x4 pickup. It is not the biggest, fastest, sleekest or newest. That being said, it does a lot of things very well and with many great projectiles such as Lapua Scenars in various weights, such as the Palma 155s, it is pretty much never a bad answer. A guy could start with and stick with a .308 and shoot one rifle/one load and really learn your rifle, exterior ballistics, etc, to the point of being able to do just about anything that can reasonably be done. The huge bonus is that 1x fired brass is plentiful and .30 cal bullets are some of the least expensive, especially when compared to 6.5mm projectiles.
If I were to only run one short action cartridge for LR target shooting, hunting etc., it would without question be the proven .308.
good luck and safe shooting.
I'd choose one of the 6mm, 6.5mm or 7mm cartridges that hold somewhere between about 40 and 45gr of powder.
I believe you already have the best short action cartridge for long range shooting. The 308. Save your money and just get really good with what you already have. Get to know that gun like the back of your hand. Know its capabilities. Dont go chasing ballisitcs. Youll never be totally satisfied if you do. Youll always be wanting more. Now hit the range with your 308.
wow.. Thanks for all the responses! It gives me a lot to think about. Still not sure what Im going to do at this point.
Your question about ammo availability, variety and cost narrows it down to one. 6.5 creedmoor. $26/20 rounds Hornady140 amax, versus $46/20 rounds for 260 Remington Black Hills Gold vs 6.5x47L @ $120 for 50. Several of the others mentioned are reload only.
If you are serious about reloading then the possibilities are endless.
If you are serious about reloading then the possibilities are endless.
Difficult to read whether you're are looking for a second gun or if you're replacing your current gun and/or barrel. I'll repeat what others have said, the .308 is a decent cartridge and can be made better with bullet selection. I went from 175 SMKs to Lapua 155 Scenars and the ballistics are much, much better and the round is relatively easy to load for with components more easily sourced and cost effective than others. If you're keeping the .308 and looking for a second cartridge, the .260, 6.5 Creed or the 6.5 Lapua would be top considerations. 6mms are great but seeing splash can be a little difficult at longer ranges.
I have to agree with others who replied that learning on the .308 has many advantages. While it's been a while since I shot long range, I've been participating in other shooting disciplines and have had the opportunity to see some world class shooters. I quickly learned that's it's the Indian, not the arrow. While some cartridges may be more inherently accurate because of better ballistics, if the rifle is decent, good shooters can shoot it regardless of caliber. And the reason is simple - fundamentals. As another member stated, if you can shoot a .308 well, the 6.5 and 6mm will be a "snap".
6mmBR is the best "cartridge". Period.
You will have to diverge from perfection if you have to have hard-hitting magazine-feeding short-barrelled wind cutter ....
I would say 6SLR then - 6mmBR on top of 308 boiler...
You will have to diverge from perfection if you have to have hard-hitting magazine-feeding short-barrelled wind cutter ....
I would say 6SLR then - 6mmBR on top of 308 boiler...
I am new to the long range game, shooting out to 900 yards for the first time last fall.
No way am I an expert but after going the 308 route to start and then a 6.5x47L and a 6x47L, I will never go back. No offense to those that love their 308's but I find it is like shooting a brick compared the the 6.5 and 6mm.
I can go shoot varmints, precision targets, and stretch the legs of the 6x47 a lot further and don't go home with a sore shoulder. It does have a shorter barrel life but with all the fun I am having with this caliber I don't care.
No way am I an expert but after going the 308 route to start and then a 6.5x47L and a 6x47L, I will never go back. No offense to those that love their 308's but I find it is like shooting a brick compared the the 6.5 and 6mm.
I can go shoot varmints, precision targets, and stretch the legs of the 6x47 a lot further and don't go home with a sore shoulder. It does have a shorter barrel life but with all the fun I am having with this caliber I don't care.
I am new to the long range game, shooting out to 900 yards for the first time last fall.
No way am I an expert but after going the 308 route to start and then a 6.5x47L and a 6x47L, I will never go back. No offense to those that love their 308's but I find it is like shooting a brick compared the the 6.5 and 6mm.
I can go shoot varmints, precision targets, and stretch the legs of the 6x47 a lot further and don't go home with a sore shoulder. It does have a shorter barrel life but with all the fun I am having with this caliber I don't care.
Just out of curiosity how much less recoil does the 6.5 and 6 have compared to 308? Is the recoil of the 7's similar to the 6's?
Shooting a braked 6mm is similar to shooting a unbraked 223 or maybe a tad more. Surprisingly a braked 6.5 is pretty much the same even with 140's. 7mm is more like a 308 if you are shooting 162-168 grain bullets. I was a little put off by the muzzle rise and the recoil of a unbraked medium weight 7-08, manageable but significant compared to my braked 6x47L. My 24lb braked 6.5 Saum (140's/3125 fps) has a tiny bit more recoil than my braked 20 lb (105's/3150 fps) 6x47L.
Loaded question dependent on several factors; mostly shooter recoil sensitivity, rifle weight, bullet weight, presence of muzzle brake and to a lesser extent, muzzle brake "effectiveness" and velocity.
Anyway, assuming an able-bodied man, rifles of equal weight, all equipped with a muzzle brake....and assuming the 6mm is firing a 105gr bullet at 3100, the 6.5mm is firing a 140gr@2800, the 7mm a 162@2800 and the 308 a 175@2700 or a 155@2950:
The 6mm almost doesn't have any recoil.
The 6.5 has "more" than the 6mm but it is very mild.
The 7mm has "notably" more recoil than the 6.5. Most guys won't find it objectionable, but some women might.
The 308 is pretty similar to the 7mm, but a bit more "thumpy". Again most guys won't find it objectionable.
Bottom line is I'd compare the 6mm and 6.5mm to eachother, and the 7mm and 308 to eachother.
If you are not going to have a longer mag box installed, I would suggest either a 6 or 6.5x47 Lapua or a 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor. I have a .260 and like it a lot, but trying to reach the lands in a 2.8" box is pretty tough. I got around this because the Stiller predator actions come cut for the Wyatt extended boxes. No matter which way you go, have the chamber throated so you can reach the lands with your bullet of choice and even chase them for a little while as your throat erodes.
John
John
http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...-caliber-choices-comparison-applications.html
I started that thread 4+ years ago for this very question. Myself and a few others posted a LOT of information in there that comes from painstaking experience.
As you've been advised so far, there's really not a "best" cartridge, there are a number of very good ones.
My personal favorites for your stated purpose are the 6x47 Lapua, 6.5x47 Lapua, and the 6.5 Creedmoor in any order you pick.
I started that thread 4+ years ago for this very question. Myself and a few others posted a LOT of information in there that comes from painstaking experience.
As you've been advised so far, there's really not a "best" cartridge, there are a number of very good ones.
My personal favorites for your stated purpose are the 6x47 Lapua, 6.5x47 Lapua, and the 6.5 Creedmoor in any order you pick.
